#26 - GOAT peaks project (2019)

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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#61 » by liamliam1234 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:42 pm

If he didn't benefit from rest during the po's then he wouldn't have rested. We need to stop ignoring obvious context because it clashes with whatever silly narratives we're looking to perpetuate. And I'm happy he is a beas playoff performer. SO was giannis, harden, curry, and jokic. The difference is the latter bunch can reach that level without the luxury of a team that allows you to play like ****. Kawhi cannot and hence his peak should be discounted accordingly.


This one legitimately made me laugh out loud. You are truly in top form today. :rofl2:
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#62 » by freethedevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:43 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:I also have no qualms with Lebron doing that and am glad he does.

Yes, because lebron doing that still leaves you with a mvp level regular season. Lebron still plays like a superstar.

Understanding what you need to do to maximise your performance when it matters most is not a negative.

Huh? Kawhi specically played on a team that acheived a high seed with him playing like ****. That is not something that he should get credit for.

Kawhi was free to coast? Yeah, so was Giannis. So was basically every player to ever play on a high seeded team.

No, actually, they weren't, because those teams got a high seed through mvp level play from their best players, the raptors did not. I don't know why you keep missing, it was not kawhi's intellect that gave him this advantage, it was his team, and since we're comparing players, not teams, any advantages granted via his team should be discounted.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#63 » by 70sFan » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:49 pm

I think that Baylor and especially Pettit deserves more mentions at this point. Especially Pettit who was outstanding playoffs performer.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#64 » by liamliam1234 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:51 pm

I think it was E-Balla who said something along the lines of, “I would take however many regular season games of Hakeem it would take to get my team to the 8-seed if it meant I got to play David Robinson’s 1-seed.” The Bucks did not need full effort Giannis to make the playoffs. If one of the lowest ever minutes loads for an MVP was too much for him to play at that level in the postseason, that seems like far more of a condemnation than it is for Kawhi to have a demonstrable quad issue in need of management.

And you should calm down your frothiness over Kawhi “playing like trash”. Even your precious PIPM marks him as a top twenty player — oh, and he did that on a good team, so actually the impact was even better, right? :lol: Top twenty by net rating, top fifteen by basically every box score derived metric... His coast is not as good as Lebron’s coast, but it is not too far off.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#65 » by E-Balla » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:54 pm

freethedevil wrote:In the postseason they were -9, roughly as good as the raptor's

I'm not calling a team -9 because the Celtics imploded behind Kyrie the last 2 games and Detroit didn't have Blake. They played at a -5 level against the Raptors, in the 2 games where Detroit had Blake, and in the first 3 games against Boston. Seems to me like good luck is the reason they looked like a -9 defense, and not their actual true level of play. It's nitpicky so I get if you don't agree, but I'd stray from calling them a -9 defense because their opponents fell apart.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#66 » by freethedevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:59 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:At some point we need to just accept that Kawhi is a beast playoff performer who no team has been able to stop since 2017.

Was literally stopped by the 11th ranked postseason defense in the finals. :roll:

Kawhi's had chronic quad issues since 2017. If he didn't benefit from rest during the po's then he wouldn't have rested. We need to stop ignoring obvious context because it clashes with whatever silly narratives we're looking to perpetuate. And I'm happy he is a beas playoff performer. SO was giannis, harden, curry, and jokic. The difference is the latter bunch can reach that level without the luxury of a team that allows you to play like ****. Kawhi cannot and hence his peak should be discounted accordingly.

29/10/4 on 60+ ts% is not being stopped, like are you kidding me with that?

Non-existent defense, lackadasial playmaking, liability whenever he was asked to bring the ball up, and both his scoring volume and effiency dropped. So, yeah, he was "stopped" as much as Giannis, Jokic or Curry were. Being a "beast in the playoffs" is something several players who haven't been voted in yet have been, hence why "BEST SCORING FOR A TITLE" ever has become a talking point(off course, if we actual compare relative to his peers or simply adjust for pace, the notion kawhi had anywhere close to the goat scoring post season is utterly laughable).

And i just think you are exaggerating the effect is all, and if “anyone” can play like he did just by resting why don’t they?

Do you not read?

Because they don't play for the toronto raptors. They didnt' because their teams required mvp level play to be at the level of the raps. The raps didn't even require 2nd team all-nba level play.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#67 » by freethedevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:01 pm

E-Balla wrote:
freethedevil wrote:In the postseason they were -9, roughly as good as the raptor's

I'm not calling a team -9 because the Celtics imploded behind Kyrie the last 2 games and Detroit didn't have Blake. They played at a -5 level against the Raptors, in the 2 games where Detroit had Blake, and in the first 3 games against Boston. Seems to me like good luck is the reason they looked like a -9 defense, and not their actual true level of play. It's nitpicky so I get if you don't agree, but I'd stray from calling them a -9 defense because their opponents fell apart.

That's fair. Considering the state of the opposition, I'd say the raps and bucks were probably more like +7 defenses.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#68 » by E-Balla » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:07 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:I think it was E-Balla who said something along the lines of, “I would take however many regular season games of Hakeem it would take to get my team to the 8-seed if it meant I got to play David Robinson’s 1-seed.” The Bucks did not need full effort Giannis to make the playoffs. If one of the lowest ever minutes loads for an MVP was too much for him to play at that level in the postseason, that seems like far more of a condemnation than it is for Kawhi to have a demonstrable quad issue in need of management.

And you should calm down your frothiness over Kawhi “playing like trash”. Even your precious PIPM marks him as a top twenty player — oh, and he did that on a good team, so actually the impact was even better, right? :lol:

I'll point out that games missed is a legitimate argument against Kawhi. It's also a legitimate argument to point out he didn't play like a superstar he coasted so much and his team made up for it. That said I'd only say it was a legitimate criticism if I had doubts Kawhi could lead a team from a low seed to the Finals, and I don't. If you're good enough to win without HCA, I don't think you need to chase HCA.

Plus like you said Giannis coasted too. Maybe not to the extent Kawhi did (no one ever has) but certainly to an extent no one on this list other than Kawhi has. I personally take 19 Kawhi over 19 Giannis, but I get the legitimacy of Giannis over Kawhi and to me your argument that the Bucks with Giannis were as good as the Raps with Kawhi during that series despite his weaker support is the argument you should stick to. It's actually really strong and having me waffling from being solidly 19 Kawhi > 19 Giannis to now being on the fence leaning towards Kawhi.

It's worth mentioning when both players were on the floor in that series the point differential was 0.

Giannis averaged 22.0/12.0/4.7 per 36 on 53.1 TS% with a 16.8 TOV% with Kawhi on the floor.
Kawhi averaged 25.7/8.6/3.5 56.4 TS% with a 10.9 TOV% with Giannis on the floor.

Who had a better series is looking a lot closer than I remember it being watching live. I didn't realize watching live how much Kawhi was producing the second Giannis hit the bench and how much exactly he played the bench (7 mpg).
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#69 » by liamliam1234 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:13 pm

^ To a point that does speak to their respective series minutes gap, though, where Kawhi was adding value past Giannis’s (even with some nagging injuries).

Being a "beast in the playoffs" is something several players who haven't been voted in yet have been, hence why "BEST SCORING FOR A TITLE" ever has become a talking point(off course, if we actual compare relative to his peers or simply adjust for pace, the notion kawhi had anywhere close to the goat scoring post season is utterly laughable).


http://bkref.com/tiny/udB23

Sure has me laughing.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#70 » by E-Balla » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:29 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:^ To a point that does speak to their respective series minutes gap, though, where Kawhi was adding value past Giannis’s (even with some nagging injuries).

Being a "beast in the playoffs" is something several players who haven't been voted in yet have been, hence why "BEST SCORING FOR A TITLE" ever has become a talking point(off course, if we actual compare relative to his peers or simply adjust for pace, the notion kawhi had anywhere close to the goat scoring post season is utterly laughable).


http://bkref.com/tiny/udB23

Sure has me laughing.

True. It can totally be true that Giannis outplayed Kawhi but Kawhi had the better series. And 17 Kawhi didn't win a title. Got hurt in the 1st game of the WCF actually, that's disqualifying to me.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#71 » by liamliam1234 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:39 pm

I was not arguing it should be considered the best, but FTD specifically claimed Kawhi would be nowhere near the top adjusted for pace and removing the title-run qualifier.

Shouts to Bernard King, by the way.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#72 » by 70sFan » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:43 pm

Wow, this is getting way too far. Kawhi is phenomenal player and he played excellent in playoffs last year. There are still quite a few players you can argue over him, but to words like:

"Non-existent defense, lackadasial playmaking, liability whenever he was asked to bring the ball up, and both his scoring volume and effiency dropped."

are completely insane. I am starting to doubt that people watch games and not only classic games here... and that's only one of examples.

I loved reading peaks project years ago because it used to be the best way to gain knowledge from various posters. Right now, all we have is players fans and haters arguing without any respect or conclusion.

That's why I don't participate in this project, people here can't respect someone who has other opinions. I don't cry about lack of Gilmore votes even though I believe he was better than Mourning. I respect E-Balla's opinion because he knows a lot about basketball. I can learn a thing or two from his posts, even if I don't agree with overall point. That's why I'm here - to gain basketball knowledge.

If some of you think they know everything, why posting here at all?
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#73 » by E-Balla » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:38 pm

Ok so I want to get to my Kidd vs Nash breakdown (featuring Clyde and why I take him over both right under Penny and CP3) with Nash getting traction while Kidd doesn't but I've been holding off this Kawhi write up so:

Ok I've been arguing about Kawhi for a while, mostly negative, but it's time to make a positive argument towards him (sidebar: I'm keeping a list of the write ups of players I wasn't able to get to and I'm mad some of y'all have voted people in before I've had the chance. I'm mostly mad I missed out on my Wade write up, Walton, T-Mac, and West - so I'm throwing my Kawhi write up now before he's in).

In 2016 I'll be real, I wasn't high on Kawhi. I felt defensively he was rated correctly among the best in the league but offensively too much was being made about what I saw as hot shooting and a great system enabling him to score uber efficiently (he averaged 21.2 ppg on +7.5 rTS% while increasing his volume and efficiency). I mean he averaged 16.5 ppg on +3.3 rTS% the year prior and that seemed to be approaching an upper limit for him. When watching him on the floor though, outside of his lack of scoring attempts he had no clear weaknesses in his scoring game. When the ball left his hands, it went in. PNR, post, spot up, cuts, isolation... He was efficient in all play types. Seemed like a small sample error to me, or luck, but as we saw later once he decided to score more it wasn't. That was a legitimate part of his game.



In this game you can see his offense. A good but not excessive amount of isolation, some high value passes (I'd say all 3 assists are great plays, with 2 of them being very high quality passes), and something missing from his game in the seasons after - amazing of ball movement (that dunk off his screen is great). He still played that low to the ground, barely jump game he has now and he was just as strong as he is now to utilize that game.

His numbers overall were great but getting into the weeds he was 47% on midrange jumpers off the bounce (5.0 attempts a night) and 41% on 3s off the bounce in 2016 (0.8 shots a night). To compare in 2017 he was also 47% on midrange jumpers off the bounce (6.0 attempts a night) and 31% on 3s off the bounce (1.9 shots a night). In 2019 he was 45% on midrange jumpers off the bounce (6.3 attempts a night) and 34% on 3s off the bounce (2.4 shots a night).

I say all this to say I don't see much improvement in the offensive game of 2016 Kawhi and 2017 Kawhi (who I'll say was insanely hot in the playoffs), and 2019 Kawhi (who wasn't hot in the playoffs and I think 2016 Kawhi could replicate this production more often than not). His 3 pointer off the bounce improved, but overall his 3 point shooting peaked in 2016 with him averaging slightly less 3s made a game than in 17 and 19 but averaging a whole shot less a night.

The Spurs led by Kawhi as option 1a and Lamarcus as option 1b had a +4 offense and they had a +3.4 offense against OKC in the playoffs. All in all he was a good but not great offensive addition to a strong offense, with the type of floor raising ability the greats have.

Usually that wouldn't be enough to be mentioned here but Kawhi is also one of the 5 best perimeter defenders ever (him, Scottie, Iggy, Moncrief, Artest are top 5 for my money with Jimmy Butler - who might make this list if E-Balla gets his way and Luol Deng as HMs). In 2016 he peaked on that end and helped anchor a -7.4 defense. The 2016 Spurs were a top 7 defense ever by z-score and the 2nd best Spurs defense to the 04 Spurs. With Duncan manning the middle, Lamarcus providing great coverage at PF, and Kawhi locking down stars it became easy to stifle great offenses (of course until they ran into another ATG squad in the 16 Thunder). He had the most lockdown defense compilations in Youtube history this year.







The best show of his defense IMO is what he did to Harden, the only player unfortunate enough to play 4 games against the Spurs with Kawhi guarding him on basically each possession. James Harden in 4 games against the Spurs averaged 21 ppg, 4 apg, and 4.8 topg on 55.8 TS% for a whopping 96 ORTG. Now this is a guy that normally averaged 29 ppg, 7.5 apg, and 4.6 topg on 59.8 TS% with a 115 ORTG.

Overall looking at the numbers Kawhi held opponents to 38.5% from the field and a 43.5 eFG%. Good for -6.4% under average which led all perimeter players by a distance. He was in the 80th+ percentile in all defensive tracking stats. He forced a turnover on 18% of the PNRs he guarded for example and only gave up a score on 32% of them. He just seemed to be everywhere at once.

As far as Kawhi vs KD in their series goes I see people say that KD got the better of him but I don't see it. The Spurs were +3 with Kawhi on the floor with KD in the series and per 36 KD averaged 24.3/5.2/3.7 on 58.3 TS% with Kawhi on the floor while Kawhi averaged 22.5/7.4/3.3 on 54.3 TS% with KD on the floor. KD might have a slight edge offensively but Kawhi had a large defensive edge, as you can see from his work on Russ in the first video.

Westbrook with Kawhi on the floor averaged 22.9 points per 36 on 45.6 TS%. With him on the bench he averaged 35.5 points per 36 on 59.6 TS%. That's lockdown.

Overall I see Kawhi as a legit ATG defensive anchor, that can also carry an offense when needed, or play his role on a +10 team if needed. That's major versatility and usefulness regardless of what the team build around him is.

Nash vs Kidd is up next.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#74 » by E-Balla » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:54 pm

70sFan wrote:Wow, this is getting way too far. Kawhi is phenomenal player and he played excellent in playoffs last year. There are still quite a few players you can argue over him, but to words like:

"Non-existent defense, lackadasial playmaking, liability whenever he was asked to bring the ball up, and both his scoring volume and effiency dropped."

are completely insane. I am starting to doubt that people watch games and not only classic games here... and that's only one of examples.

I loved reading peaks project years ago because it used to be the best way to gain knowledge from various posters. Right now, all we have is players fans and haters arguing without any respect or conclusion.

That's why I don't participate in this project, people here can't respect someone who has other opinions. I don't cry about lack of Gilmore votes even though I believe he was better than Mourning. I respect E-Balla's opinion because he knows a lot about basketball. I can learn a thing or two from his posts, even if I don't agree with overall point. That's why I'm here - to gain basketball knowledge.

If some of you think they know everything, why posting here at all?

I'd love to hear a pro Gilmore argument. I don't see it, but maybe I'm mistaken in the strength of the ABA. I know he's one of your favorites though and you've probably watched more of him than anyone that wasn't alive when he played around here. To me he was too big, athletic, and of course strong (next to Shaq he's probably the strongest ever) to be in a B league like the ABA. And when I say B league I mean for bigmen. The ABA had amazing guard play but Artis got smaller defenders than NBA centers at the time, and more spacing. It's very telling to me that he wasn't making the playoffs once he got to Chicago. I get that his team wasn't great but still.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#75 » by freethedevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:57 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:^ To a point that does speak to their respective series minutes gap, though, where Kawhi was adding value past Giannis’s (even with some nagging injuries).

Being a "beast in the playoffs" is something several players who haven't been voted in yet have been, hence why "BEST SCORING FOR A TITLE" ever has become a talking point(off course, if we actual compare relative to his peers or simply adjust for pace, the notion kawhi had anywhere close to the goat scoring post season is utterly laughable).


http://bkref.com/tiny/udB23

Sure has me laughing.

Uh, you realize #1 isn't 2019 kawhi? It's 2017 kawhi, the one who go injured :roll:

If you looked for 2019 kawhi, three players right above him all have scored more points at higher effiency. The season below him blowed kawhi out in terms of volume with nearly equal effiency.

Below that we get the title winning dirk who had slightly higher volume on slightly lower effiency in a season where everyone scored significantly less.
Below dirk is 91-92 jordan who managed slightly less effiency with drastically higher volume. And yes he won a title, and yes, he played in a season where scoring was down. Based on just the first groupings we have two better title winning scorers, one who is drastically better, and multiple vastly better scoring seasons that didn't result in a title.

Again, you can post rolling aluaghter emojis, but the assertion that kawhi's scoring run was a legitimate candidate for "GREATEST TITLE RUN" is absolutely asinine and shows you made no sort of adjustment for league relative volume, effiency, or pace. Your hyperbole was hilariously hyperbolic, just as the link you kindly provided us proves. There isn't even a rational argument for him having the goat scoring run of the last 20 years.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#76 » by freethedevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:10 pm

70sFan wrote:"Non-existent defense, lackadasial playmaking, liability whenever he was asked to bring the ball up, and both his scoring volume and effiency dropped."

Oh wow you quoted me, i guess you telling me ur wrong proved you watched the games better. :roll:


his volume and efficiency empirically, unquestionably dropped vs the warriors. His turnover % increased despite the raptors relying more on van vleet/lowry/gasol/ibaka to carry the ball more than they had in earlier rounds and defensively he was put on the weakest offensive threats despite his value defensively nearly exclusively being based on man on man d.

Again, you saying "i wonder if people watched the game" shows nothing. I watched the games and it was obvious kawhi was significantly worse in the finals than he had been in the series before.

If you're going to try and play police
If some of you think they know everything, why posting here at all?

Why post here?
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#77 » by E-Balla » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:32 pm

freethedevil wrote:
70sFan wrote:"Non-existent defense, lackadasial playmaking, liability whenever he was asked to bring the ball up, and both his scoring volume and effiency dropped."

Oh wow you quoted me, i guess you telling me ur wrong proved you watched the games better. :roll:


his volume and efficiency empirically, unquestionably dropped vs the warriors. His turnover % increased despite the raptors relying more on van vleet/lowry/gasol/ibaka to carry the ball more than they had in earlier rounds and defensively he was put on the weakest offensive threats despite his value defensively nearly exclusively being based on man on man d.

Again, you saying "i wonder if people watched the game" shows nothing. I watched the games and it was obvious kawhi was significantly worse in the finals than he had been in the series before.

If you're going to try and play police
If some of you think they know everything, why posting here at all?

Why post here?

That's all different than calling him a liability whenever he brought the ball up the floor. I've said a lot negative about Kawhi that year, but that's unnecessary hyperbole.
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#78 » by freethedevil » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:43 pm

E-Balla wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
70sFan wrote:"Non-existent defense, lackadasial playmaking, liability whenever he was asked to bring the ball up, and both his scoring volume and effiency dropped."

Oh wow you quoted me, i guess you telling me ur wrong proved you watched the games better. :roll:


his volume and efficiency empirically, unquestionably dropped vs the warriors. His turnover % increased despite the raptors relying more on van vleet/lowry/gasol/ibaka to carry the ball more than they had in earlier rounds and defensively he was put on the weakest offensive threats despite his value defensively nearly exclusively being based on man on man d.

Again, you saying "i wonder if people watched the game" shows nothing. I watched the games and it was obvious kawhi was significantly worse in the finals than he had been in the series before.

If you're going to try and play police
If some of you think they know everything, why posting here at all?

Why post here?

That's all different than calling him a liability whenever he brought the ball up the floor. I've said a lot negative about Kawhi that year, but that's unnecessary hyperbole.

Fair, more fitting for kd really who literally averaged more to's than shot attempts the one and only sustained stretch of time where the warriors asked him to bring the ball out. :nonono:
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#79 » by liamliam1234 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:43 pm

freethedevil wrote:
liamliam1234 wrote:^ To a point that does speak to their respective series minutes gap, though, where Kawhi was adding value past Giannis’s (even with some nagging injuries).

Being a "beast in the playoffs" is something several players who haven't been voted in yet have been, hence why "BEST SCORING FOR A TITLE" ever has become a talking point(off course, if we actual compare relative to his peers or simply adjust for pace, the notion kawhi had anywhere close to the goat scoring post season is utterly laughable).


http://bkref.com/tiny/udB23

Sure has me laughing.

Uh, you realize #1 isn't 2019 kawhi? It's 2017 kawhi, the one who go injured :roll:

If you looked for 2019 kawhi, three players right above him all have scored more points at higher effiency. The season below him blowed kawhi out in terms of volume with nearly equal effiency.

Below that we get the title winning dirk who had slightly higher volume on slightly lower effiency in a season where everyone scored significantly less.
Below dirk is 91-92 jordan who managed slightly less effiency with drastically higher volume. And yes he won a title, and yes, he played in a season where scoring was down. Based on just the first groupings we have two better title winning scorers, one who is drastically better, and multiple vastly better scoring seasons that didn't result in a title.

Again, you can post rolling aluaghter emojis, but the assertion that kawhi's scoring run was a legitimate candidate for "GREATEST TITLE RUN" is absolutely asinine and shows you made no sort of adjustment for league relative volume, effiency, or pace. Your hyperbole was hilariously hyperbolic, just as the link you kindly provided us proves. There isn't even a rational argument for him having the goat scoring run of the last 20 years.


*sigh*

I spent a few minutes typing out a thorough response really spelling this out for you, but my browser crashed, and I am not replicating it. So I will keep it “simple”:

1. You never specified which Kawhi year.
2. You never specified that you were looking at title runs.
3. Given that you cite there being three players above 2019 Kawhi, none of whom won titles in those years, you do not seem to have been focused on the title run element even in your initial response.
4. Given that I had previously established that Kawhi had the most efficient high volume title run, it did not make sense for you to want to repeat that frame.
5. I never said having the most efficient high volume title run inherently meant it was the “greatest” scoring run.
6. More importantly, I never said it was the greatest scoring run.
7. Relatedly, I made no hyperbolic claim on the subject. The fact he has the top true shooting high volume scoring run in a championship season is just that: a fact. Nice to see you repeating the same mistake you made a few threads ago with Harden.
8. You specifically declared he would be “nowhere close” to the top. Considering he was number 1 and number 7 on the overall list of ten game playoff samples, and at the top of the list in title runs, saying he is “nowhere close” is a demonstrably untrue statement.
9. Your proffered frame did not ask to adjust for relative league efficiency.
10. Your proffered frame did not ask to adjust for relative league scoring.
11. All your proffered frame requested was a “simple pace adjustment”. Neither of the above are what I would say qualifies as a “simple pace adjustment” in any normal sense.
12. Again, your proffered frame did not merely claim he would not be the “GOAT”; it specifically claimed he would be “nowhere close”.
13. Speaking of which, offering two potentially better ones even under the new standards still is, well, nowhere close to being “nowhere close”.
14. Citing to other non-title-winning runs as being better again ends up pointing first and foremost to a separate Kawhi season. Was it your intent to argue that Kawhi was not even as good as... Kawhi?
15. And again, I never made the claim it was the objective “GOAT” scoring run.

For someone who accuses others of “strawmanning” at every possible opportunity, you sure constructed as massive one. And it was so large you had to move the goalposts to do it.

Please stop wasting my time. You are not nearly as good at this as you seem to think you are, and at this point I am starting to just feel a lot of second-hand embarrassment.
freethedevil
Head Coach
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Re: #26 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#80 » by freethedevil » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:00 am

E-Balla wrote:
liamliam1234 wrote:^ To a point that does speak to their respective series minutes gap, though, where Kawhi was adding value past Giannis’s (even with some nagging injuries).

Being a "beast in the playoffs" is something several players who haven't been voted in yet have been, hence why "BEST SCORING FOR A TITLE" ever has become a talking point(off course, if we actual compare relative to his peers or simply adjust for pace, the notion kawhi had anywhere close to the goat scoring post season is utterly laughable).


http://bkref.com/tiny/udB23

Sure has me laughing.

True. It can totally be true that Giannis outplayed Kawhi but Kawhi had the better series.

The raps out scored the bucks by 6 points over 6 games. Even if we just take the extra minuites to be somethign giannis couldn't do, the series was close to a draw.

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