Political Roundtable Part XXVI

[Ruzious]

The quid pro quo was obvious to anyone with a brain, but... even if there was none, it was still an impeachable offense for Trump to make a strong appeal like that to Ukraine to investigate Biden. It was obviously made with the intent of helping Trump and hurting a political opponent. And if there was no quid pro quo, it would put Trump in a position where he'd be withholden to the Ukraine leader. Trump doesn't give a flying f about corruption in other countries. That was obvious when he defended Saudi leadership that murdered a journalist. GD, I'm tired of the intentional and convenient stupidity of people. It's f'n obvious what happened. Own it.

[Pointgod]

the Republican playbook

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Jesus how **** stupid is this administration? This is what happens when you only hire the dregs of political community and sycophants. I really hope that news anchors start calling out these talking points and referring directly to them when Republicans come onto the their shows.

[dckingsfan]

Recent polls...

Code: Select all

               Quinnipiac   Emerson   Politico   Average
Biden                  25        25         32        27         
Warren                 27        23         20        23
Sanders                16        22         19        19
Buttigieg               7         6          5         6
Harris                  3         4          6         4
Yang                    2         8          3         4
O'Rourke                2         1          3         2
Booker                  0         2          3         2
Kobuchar                2         0          2         1
Castro                  2         2          1         2
Gabbard                 1         1          1         1
Bennet                  1         0          1         1
Styeyer                 0         0          1         0

[Wizardspride]

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[Jamaaliver]

Cindy McCain: Today’s GOP ‘is not the party that my husband and I belonged to’

McCain said she can see Democrats winning Arizona in 2020, and warned that the Republican Party is “excluding people.”



The 2020 election will likely be decided by a handful of states. A few of them, like Michigan and Pennsylvania, are traditionally Democratic. Others, like Florida, are tossups trending Republican. And then there’s Arizona, the longtime GOP stronghold where Democratic gains are causing major heartburn for national Republicans.

And Republicans are right to be worried about Arizona, says Cindy McCain, wife of the late Sen. John McCain, who represented the state in the U.S. Senate for more than three decades prior to his death in 2018.

There are, said McCain, two major reasons why: one has to do with changes in the state, and the other stems from the transformation of the Republican Party during the presidency of Donald Trump.

“We have a huge Hispanic population now that have found their voice in politics, number one. And number two, we have on my side of the aisle — on the Republican side — we see a local party in Arizona that’s not functioning well, and it’s excluding people,” said McCain.

“If you’re not walking the line, then you’re out. That’s just not right. That’s not the party that my husband and I belonged to.”

Politico

[G R E Y]

Couldn't get to this yesterday, but it was a huge day for checks and balances flexing its muscles on both sides of the pond. Looks and feels like the turn of big tides.

Thanks to those who responded in good faith about my checks and balances questions. I'm not American, so getting some starting points is appreciated.

As to the release of the transcript or summary of it today, the conversation was around 30 minutes, right? How is what was released today supposed to be accurate just in terms of all that was missing?

I realize there is still the issue of the whistleblower, but the reactions to some two minute or so version of a much longer conversation seems like a distraction noodle.

[Zonkerbl]

yeah the whistleblower report is on its way over to the House now

[G R E Y]

A little levity hahaha!

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[Pointgod]

Couldn't get to this yesterday, but it was a huge day for checks and balances flexing its muscles on both sides of the pond. Looks and feels like the turn of big tides.

Thanks to those who responded in good faith about my checks and balances questions. I'm not American, so getting some starting points is appreciated.

As to the release of the transcript or summary of it today, the conversation was around 30 minutes, right? How is what was released today supposed to be accurate just in terms of all that was missing?

I realize there is still the issue of the whistleblower, but the reactions to some two minute or so version of a much longer conversation seems like a distraction noodle.

Frankly put it’s not. It’s like your girlfriend accusing you of cheating and then in response you providing a summary of the text messages you sent another woman. The fact that Trump agreed to release it should be evidence enough that it’s not on the up and up. Also the whistleblower complaint is based on multiple conversations and actions that were observed not over this one conversation. Once Congress hears the complaint then we can assess how bad it is. But even with what Trump has admitted to and the release of this conversation it’s still impeachable.

[pancakes3]

to extend the cheating gf analogy, when republicans are hurr-durring themselves by saying "he never promised funds" or "there's no quid pro quo" it's basically saying "it's not like i paid for it when i was out there soliciting strange"

just completely missing the point.

eta: and not for nothing... this is how Trump kicks off his big ask:

I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine.

what the f*ck does that even mean? like, if you're Zelensky, what do you even say to that? You want the Ukraine to find out what happened with Ukraine?

yes, we're all desensitized to Trump talk at this point but sometimes it's just too mushbrained to gloss over.

[Wizardspride]

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[Rich Rane]

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[Zonkerbl]

Whistleblower report suggests that people were briefing Zelensky on what was expected before the call. Guiliani in particular made sure that Zelensky knew what it was he was being asked to do. Trump then held up the aid package. So the call was just a formality - it wouldn't have happened if Zelensky hadn't already agreed to Trump's demands for an investigation into the Bidens. But the transcript makes it pretty clear - Zelensky's like "just checking in on the defense stuff?" and Trump is like "yeah I want you to help me drum up a case to justify pardoning Manafort and Stone with this Crowdstrike thing and I also want you to investigate the Bidens." And that's ALL HE SAYS.

I'm really depressed now that people actively support this criminal. Even if Biden's son did do something shady this is just so beyond the pale. Based off of the whistleblower's POV it looks like the whole Biden thing is a 100% manufactured lie.

[dobrojim]

Barr should be impeached, I mean, seriously, what a complete toady.
He's definitely violated his oath of office. Rudy should be indicted.
Rudy's just an idiot.

edit to add

After the last several years of GOP statements/accusations that the Dems were trying to re-litigate
the 2016 election, in what now appears to be yet another case of projection and
baseless conspiracy hawking, the Ukraine scandal remains about Russia and their
desire to get sanctions removed by trying to cast themselves as having been set up
and not actually being involved in election interference. The GOP, believing these
BS theories, are the ones trying to rewrite history. All in service to a con man.

[Ruzious]

Some of those pictures with Trump and Zelensky are going down in history - unbelievably cringe-worthy. It's so obvious that Zelensky is caught between a rock and a fat slime doing his best mob boss impersonation.

[Pointgod]

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I read the whole thing and the whistleblower complaint is just the tip of the iceberg. Congress needs to subpoena the **** out of everyone and anyone related to this and threaten jail if they don’t show up to cooperate. This is 100% extortion and getting a foreign power to interfere in the upcoming elections.

[Wizardspride]

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[dobrojim]

Consciousness of guilt

PS - Yeah Trump was definitely the most ethical of the 4.

[pancakes3]

I thought that the complaint was anticlimactic. There really wasn't too much revealed that was gamechanging. Hell, most of it came out in public, on live TV, admitted by Giuliani himself 5 months ago. The stuff like the WH lawyers scrubbing the records, etc. is bad, but those are tacked-on infractions. The underlying baseline bad act that counts as a "high crime and misdemeanor" wherein Trump wants the Ukraine to investigate Biden has been common knowledge for months now. I was hoping that there would be something more - like other nations that Trump contemplated influencing, or other candidates who Trump contemplated investigating.

Still bad, and some times you need an authority such as a whistleblower to shake people awake but this has been out in the open for months.

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[Ruzious]

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The coverup generally gets them worse than the crime, because covering up implies they know there was an egregious crime. The "Is that all ya got on me" defense no longer has any chance of success.