Can we talk *positively* about Fultz?

[Duke4life831]

He hasn’t been a bust because his game didn’t translate or anything like that. He’s been a bust because he mysteriously lost the ability to shoot the way he use to. Whether the basis was physical/neurological/mental his situation is completely different than the other players you mentioned.

There are many different reasons why someone ends up being a bust, whether it be his game didnt translate, injuries or mentally couldn't handle the transition.

As of right now, we don't know how much of Fultz failures are do to what. We don't know how much is him not being able to handle everything mentally, or physically or if his game really didnt translate. We don't know the % each of those things lay claim to his failures, we also don't know which of those things started this entire thing to tumble to the point where it is now.

I just don't think its all that crazy or uncalled for to say, ya 2 years in the #1 pick has played 33 games, when he has played it wasn't pretty and he has this injury that many don't really know how he got it, how serious it is, is it mental or physical. A #1 pick that basically gets traded away for an end of the bench player and some 2nd round picks 2 years in, is kind of the definition of a bust 2 years in. Again he has time to turn this around, he's only 21 and Im hoping all this was due to some shoulder injury that they figured out and now he is healthy and can be a beast.

What I consider to be an important difference is that you can hone in on a single aspect of his game that has been affected- obliterated even- as opposed to Markelle just being generally unproductive. Sure the source of that problem can be debated to an extent, but it's not a Michael Beasley situation where his BBIQ/awareness is demonstrably poor across the board.

But in fairness to your original point, people should probably re-evaluate their lives if they're expending significant negative energy on NBA player regardless of the "why".

I get what you're saying, but just because its not something obvious to us as fans, doesn't mean there isn't something though that we don't see that makes him a "bust" or practically unplayable 2 years into his NBA career. Maybe its immaturity, that isn't something we haven't seen before with a #1 pick. When people talk about Kwame Brown's first few seasons, lots of people bring up just how immature he was. He matured up and lasted in the league till he was 30. Is it a pressure thing where the bright lights and playing against the best of the best too much for him?

There are a ton of questions that we just don't know as fans. With him getting the all clear from ORL, this year should be a good year to see was it all because of this mystery injury or is there something else. Either way though, there really is no other way look at his first two years with Philly, a complete failure. Again he's young and plenty of time to turn it around, we will see this year how those chances look.

I think rooting for some random dude that you have never met to fail is dumb. On the other hand, I personally don't buy these "look how hard player x is working, how can you hate on him", or "player x has a new love for the game", "player x has looked great in the weight room". I think you can do this with any player in the NBA, G League or over seas league. If they are a player that is in the NBA, or on the NBA radar, 99% chance they're grinding all summer.

Again good on Markelle for working on his shot trying to get better, I really do hope he turns it around, Im not rooting for him to fail. Im also not going to praise him either, for doing something every other player is doing.

[moistnessfiscal]

The title of this thread makes Fultz sound like the new-kid at a rehab facility or an annoying kid that can't socialise.

[OzThunder]

I can always talk positively about Fultz...

Quote me- in six months he will be the NBA and media darling, surprising people and being considered "underrated." He'll put up solid numbers and start being compared to people of his draft class. Everyone will be talking about how they always thought he'd pull through and never doubted him. They will build statues for him and name streets after him (ok maybe too far).

16, 5 and 7. Will have the starting job by all star break for a streaky but good Magic

[LakersSoul]

Dude was in the gym jacking up shots, looking like he's enjoying himself, not hurting, and is going into training camp with no restrictions apparently.

I'm genuinely excited for his season and hope he succeeds in at the very least competing with DJ for the starting spot. (Not much of a major goal compared to what he was supposed to be but still a huge step none the less)

There's tweets somewhere but I'm at work and too lazy to find and attach them.

Fultz will positively be one of the worst #1 picks in history in a high potential class.

[michaelm]

There are many different reasons why someone ends up being a bust, whether it be his game didnt translate, injuries or mentally couldn't handle the transition.

As of right now, we don't know how much of Fultz failures are do to what. We don't know how much is him not being able to handle everything mentally, or physically or if his game really didnt translate. We don't know the % each of those things lay claim to his failures, we also don't know which of those things started this entire thing to tumble to the point where it is now.

I just don't think its all that crazy or uncalled for to say, ya 2 years in the #1 pick has played 33 games, when he has played it wasn't pretty and he has this injury that many don't really know how he got it, how serious it is, is it mental or physical. A #1 pick that basically gets traded away for an end of the bench player and some 2nd round picks 2 years in, is kind of the definition of a bust 2 years in. Again he has time to turn this around, he's only 21 and Im hoping all this was due to some shoulder injury that they figured out and now he is healthy and can be a beast.

What I consider to be an important difference is that you can hone in on a single aspect of his game that has been affected- obliterated even- as opposed to Markelle just being generally unproductive. Sure the source of that problem can be debated to an extent, but it's not a Michael Beasley situation where his BBIQ/awareness is demonstrably poor across the board.

But in fairness to your original point, people should probably re-evaluate their lives if they're expending significant negative energy on NBA player regardless of the "why".

I get what you're saying, but just because its not something obvious to us as fans, doesn't mean there isn't something though that we don't see that makes him a "bust" or practically unplayable 2 years into his NBA career. Maybe its immaturity, that isn't something we haven't seen before with a #1 pick. When people talk about Kwame Brown's first few seasons, lots of people bring up just how immature he was. He matured up and lasted in the league till he was 30. Is it a pressure thing where the bright lights and playing against the best of the best too much for him?

There are a ton of questions that we just don't know as fans. With him getting the all clear from ORL, this year should be a good year to see was it all because of this mystery injury or is there something else. Either way though, there really is no other way look at his first two years with Philly, a complete failure. Again he's young and plenty of time to turn it around, we will see this year how those chances look.

I think rooting for some random dude that you have never met to fail is dumb. On the other hand, I personally don't buy these "look how hard player x is working, how can you hate on him", or "player x has a new love for the game", "player x has looked great in the weight room". I think you can do this with any player in the NBA, G League or over seas league. If they are a player that is in the NBA, or on the NBA radar, 99% chance they're grinding all summer.

Again good on Markelle for working on his shot trying to get better, I really do hope he turns it around, Im not rooting for him to fail. Im also not going to praise him either, for doing something every other player is doing.

This year is it, if he starts playing actual NBA games and his shooting problems recur then it is probably time to write him off.

At this stage I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, the condition he reputedly had is no more unusual than him having “the yips” as a 19 year old basketball player, probably less unusual in fact. We had a poster last year who was both a physiotherapist and had suffered the condition himself, which had resolved with appropriate treatment, who posted convincingly and imo fairly scientifically about the condition.

I can give and have given an example of a past and future world champion in another sport who was written off by pretty much everyone associated with his sport as psychologically broken. I would not suggest Fultz has ever looked like the type of shooter Steph Curry is, but Curry was written off as never likely to be fully healthy early in his career to the extent that Monta Ellis being traded while he was retained was roundly booed/trenchantly criticised by a significant percentage of the GSW fan base.

[kulaz3000]

Most people know my opinion on this one. If he can effectively restore his jump shot, he will be a dangerous player. I'll be pulling for Markelle.

That's a big if, but you're right, if it does happen then he can be a dangerous player.

I'm rooting for him. Actually, I root for all players to do well, and stay healthy because it only helps the product as a whole for us fans.

[Antinomy]

If he manages to dupe some team...I mean *earn* another contract, he’ll have outlasted the average nba career! Yay!

[dhsilv2]

I will when he does something worth talking positively about. Imagine begging people to talk positively about Anthony Bennett because he is playing in training camp

Anthony Bennett didn't fail because of injury. Even if you believe the "yips" narrative then you are talking about a mental block interfering with his regular shooting motion.

you are right but you are also wrong... Bennett should never have been taken #1 but he was definitely in the top 10 on every draft board in the world. Kid killed it in college even though it was the Mountain West and looked like a sure fire starter if nothing else.
To put it in perspective if you were not paying attention; he had a season similar to the level of impact that Brandon Clarke just had.
Some more bits:
He waited to have his shoulder surgery until after the college season despite playing through it , but he fell off a cliff after the surgery which was not successful since he couldn't make a shot to save his life , he was fat which may not have come as much surprise since he was always a round mound, but he was really out of shape coming into tc. He also had severe sleep apnea , couldn't handle the pressure of being a number #1 pick even in a historically weak draft ( except for the Bucks) etc etc.
Bennett could have been something, but clearly the pressure and expectations were too much to live up too.
I would not be surprised if his only motivation before getting drafted was $ not love of the game and being part of the fraternity, the last part is my opinion based solely on his conditioning coming into tc and the lack of obvious improvement in that area throughout his short career.
Ayyway yeah I can see getting excited for Fultz backfiring on ORL fans, but he at least looks promising and there is positive vibes around him unlike many others like Bennett

Hard to be critical of a guy being over weight if they have sleep apnea...that's one of the symptoms of it.

[youngcrev]

Fool me once...

I don't see much reason to be positive about Fultz until he actually does something on the court. This time last year we had Hanlen hyping him up over his amazing off-season and rebuilt jumper.

Not that people should be overly negative people about him... I just don't know what there is to talk about him. Nothing has changed. We have no new information.

You're a rational poster and this is a rational opinion but one question: what's the logic behind the Magic making such a claim and opting into his contract next year if they really don't have reason to believe his situation improved?

The only thing I could come up with is building up his confidence, but as you pointed out that didn't work last year. If anything it might be harder to perform under elevated expectations. As far as his contract goes, $12.5mil is a lot for a playoff team to to commit 2 months before the deadline. I just have a hard time their FO would act that irrationally, but maybe.

I haven't looked too deeply into the Magic cap, but just off a quick glance, it looks they'd have around the MLE in cap space had they let him go (and that's without factoring in Augustine's cap hold if they wanted to keep him), so there really isn't much opportunity cost in picking up the option.

Plus if they weren't planning to do so already when they made the trade, giving up a first for him while knowing in advance that he was going to be a project wouldn't of made much sense.

Or maybe they really have just liked what they've seen.

Regardless, why anyone would hop on that train right now is beyond me. He feels like the ultimate wait and see guy. The good news for Magic fans is they are playing with house money.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm excited to see him play healthy. So big, so skilled, so much potential.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Already a thread, moderator

It's a different premise, although some people are ignoring that premise in favor And-1s

Mostly threatened Sixer fans.
Expecting the team to bring him along slowly. I think if people are expecting an elite player and gaudy numbers they’re setting themselves up.

[Duffman100]

Magic need him to recover. I'm pulling for him!

[Nyce_1]

I think more important than his shot coming back, is that he now understands how to live and treat this ongoing injury. He said he always tried to play through it, but now, he understands that he has to rest as much as he works to create the balance to not reagrevate the injury.

I'm happy for him and my Magic squad but I also want to see how he looks after the load of 10 games, 20 games, 50 games....

[Creativetran]

Most people know my opinion on this one. If he can effectively restore his jump shot, he will be a dangerous player. I'll be pulling for Markelle.

Most Magic fans view that as a plus, we will take him even if his shot doesn't come back. He can still get to the rim, make plays and defend better than MCW.

[Creativetran]

Steve Clifford is the right guy for the job...

I gotta say I hated the hire when we made it but last year he did pretty good with the team, hell even made Vuc look like a passable defender.

[Creativetran]

Fultz, Gordon, Issac could become a scary young defensive core in the near future.

Add in Bamba if he develops too, damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn thats a long athletic team right there.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Already a thread, moderator

It's a different premise, although some people are ignoring that premise in favor And-1s

Mostly threatened Sixer fans.
Expecting the team to bring him along slowly. I think if people are expecting an elite player and gaudy numbers they’re setting themselves up.

You tryna angle me against my comrads?

People were saying the same things when Sixers fans were mostly defending him.

[Jabroni Lames]

Fultz absolutely, positively sucks.

[JAYZGOAT]

It's like Magic fans want Sixers fans to be threatened or upset. I've seen no proof of it. Most Sixers fans have been wishing him well since the trade

[Magic_Johnny12]

It's like Magic fans want Sixers fans to be threatened or upset. I've seen no proof of it. Most Sixers fans have been wishing him well since the trade