The thing about Porzingis...

[blueNorange]

I would think that his ceiling is higher than that. He’s already arguably a top 5 PF. Top 7 at worst.

The thing is, he should be playing Center.

Carlisle has caught on to the defensive advantages of mobility. I'm guessing we'll see Porzingis at C for a significant amount of time this season. I'm particularly curious to see a Doncic/Porzingis PF/C combo as I think that would cause all sorts of problems for opposing teams and while the Mavs don't have any elite guards they have a solid amount of decent ones. He'll play some PF, too, though. He's not totally unlike Serge Ibaka on defense in that sense.

As others mentioned, Porzingis' only real problems are conditioning and health.

unless he changed his tune, kristaps and his brother states his position is power foward.

"I think it's better for us," Porzingis said Wednesday. "Me at the 4, especially if I'm playing against a non-shooting 4, I can do a lot. When I'm playing against the 5, I'm fighting with the big a lot of times and I'm wasting a lot of energy. Obviously, offensively I have an advantage at center, but I'm just more comfortable playing at the 4."

[Capn'O]

Porzingis actually seems like a great fit as a #2 and his ability to shoot the 3 (he was trending up every year and was just a shade under 40% before injury) and protect the rim seems like a really potent combination.

I do think he's probably miscast as a #1 guy, but next to Luka he could look really good.

Agreed. The Doncic pairing should help maximize him especially since Doncic is a good facilitator and rebounder. Porzingis is best when he gets the ball and can make an immediate decision. Just use him as a finisher, whether he be in motion towards the basket or ready for a quick pull up move or shot. He should not operate much in iso situations.

They'll also need their second big to secure rebounds. He's just not good on the glass.

[ellobo]

He *can be a game changer on defense. In NY he didn't play hard on that end at all after his rookie season and wasn't that good overall. Hopefully he can pick it up on the Mavs.

Also he's not a center. He's the worst rebounder I've seen at the center spot along with Bargnani and he's the worst post defender over 6-10 in the league. He hates contact. I won't forget when he gave up like 20 in a half to Dwight Howard when Jeff refused to put a C next to him against Charlotte. It's like water through toilet paper when an actual C backs into KP.

He's been an extremely effective rim defender as a PF on weak side blocks. Don't assume he'll be as effective as the primary rim defender, that's what people assumed with KAT coming from the NCAA to the NBA and it didn't translate well.

Okay, I realize you are talking specifically about his defense on Dwight in that game, which I can't defend (pun intended).

But the Knicks won that game and Porzingis had 28pts on 10-15 shooting/4-8 from three/4-4 from the line.

As cited in a previous post, his opponents' field goal percentage against him close to the basket is elite, and I disagree that that is only an artifact of role or lineup combinations.

This literally has nothing to do with my post so idk why you felt the need to post this...

Let me attempt to unconfuse you.

I commented on the same game by the same player. In the game you chose as an example of his defensive deficiencies, those deficiencies were not enough to prevent the team from winning, and he had an outstanding offensive game that contributed to the victory. In evaluating the the overall performance of the player, that seems obviously relevant.

You also compared his defensive deficiencies at center to KAT. But KAT has never had rim protection metrics on Porzingis's level. So I question whether Porzingis's better metrics are only an artifact of Porzingis's role, and would sink to KAT-like levels if he played more minutes at center.

[Nazrmohamed]

Okay, I realize you are talking specifically about his defense on Dwight in that game, which I can't defend (pun intended).

But the Knicks won that game and Porzingis had 28pts on 10-15 shooting/4-8 from three/4-4 from the line.

As cited in a previous post, his opponents' field goal percentage against him close to the basket is elite, and I disagree that that is only an artifact of role or lineup combinations.

This literally has nothing to do with my post so idk why you felt the need to post this...

Let me attempt to unconfuse you.

I commented on the same game by the same player. In the game you chose as an example of his defensive deficiencies, those deficiencies were not enough to prevent the team from winning, and he had an outstanding offensive game that contributed to the victory. In evaluating the the overall performance of the player, that seems obiously relevant.

You also compared his defensive deficiencies at center to KAT. But KAT has never had rim protection metrics on Porzingis's level. So I question whether Porzingis's better metrics are only an artifact of Porzingis's role, and would sink to KAT-like levels if he played more minutes at center.

E-balla, stop playing man. You know that whole Dwight Howard line was supposed to be your drop the Mike moment and he destroyed it. Dont be wrong and strong. People love picking out one game or even one or two sequences to define someone's career. Try again.

With that said though I find it funny how there was nobody around to jump to KPs defense while he was on the Knicks but now hes a maverick and everybody loves them some KP. Of course it's the crappy Knicks. So tell me, who right now on the Knicks is actually a good player that you wont admit to until he leaves?

[Chanel Bomber]

If KP accepts his role as a second option and doesn’t hijack Dallas’s offense by shooting those terrible midrange Js, he can be a major piece for the Mavs and a winning player in this league. His combination of rim protection and floor spacing could be a game-changer.

But anyone expecting him to be a franchise player will be sorely disappointed. His game hasn’t really evolved since his rookie season, only volume has truly changed. He was still an inefficient scorer, a poor finisher, a poor rebounder and a poor passer in his third season.

He just doesn’t have the scoring efficiency nor the playmaking ability to be a franchise player. If he can take a backseat and let Luka dictate the offense while focusing on what he’s actually good at, KP’s gonna be a menace in the West for years to come. Hopefully he embraces that role.

[E-Balla]

Okay, I realize you are talking specifically about his defense on Dwight in that game, which I can't defend (pun intended).

But the Knicks won that game and Porzingis had 28pts on 10-15 shooting/4-8 from three/4-4 from the line.

As cited in a previous post, his opponents' field goal percentage against him close to the basket is elite, and I disagree that that is only an artifact of role or lineup combinations.

This literally has nothing to do with my post so idk why you felt the need to post this...

Let me attempt to unconfuse you.

I commented on the same game by the same player. In the game you chose as an example of his defensive deficiencies, those deficiencies were not enough to prevent the team from winning, and he had an outstanding offensive game that contributed to the victory. In evaluating the the overall performance of the player, that seems obviously relevant.

You also compared his defensive deficiencies at center to KAT. But KAT has never had rim protection metrics on Porzingis's level. So I question whether Porzingis's better metrics are only an artifact of Porzingis's role, and would sink to KAT-like levels if he played more minutes at center.

I'm specifically discussing his defense at center. His offense isn't relevant and they would've won that game handedly if he was at PF.

[E-Balla]

This literally has nothing to do with my post so idk why you felt the need to post this...

Let me attempt to unconfuse you.

I commented on the same game by the same player. In the game you chose as an example of his defensive deficiencies, those deficiencies were not enough to prevent the team from winning, and he had an outstanding offensive game that contributed to the victory. In evaluating the the overall performance of the player, that seems obiously relevant.

You also compared his defensive deficiencies at center to KAT. But KAT has never had rim protection metrics on Porzingis's level. So I question whether Porzingis's better metrics are only an artifact of Porzingis's role, and would sink to KAT-like levels if he played more minutes at center.

E-balla, stop playing man. You know that whole Dwight Howard line was supposed to be your drop the Mike moment and he destroyed it. Dont be wrong and strong. People love picking out one game or even one or two sequences to define someone's career. Try again.

With that said though I find it funny how there was nobody around to jump to KPs defense while he was on the Knicks but now hes a maverick and everybody loves them some KP. Of course it's the crappy Knicks. So tell me, who right now on the Knicks is actually a good player that you wont admit to until he leaves?

Bro what? We're discussing his defense at C. Y'all can't even defend it so you're switching the topic. Stop with the random nonsense. And you know for a damn fact I've been talking about his defense negatively since 2017 and saying he needed to stop being soft. Stop it.

[Phish Tank]

There's just a lot of ? marks even before the ACL injury that have to be answered and we don't know if it will be answered:

1) Can we take advantage of smaller players guarding him? Marcus Smart gave him fits all the time. That's the game plan against him
2) Can he remove his bad Melo-like shooting tendencies? He can't shoot 45% from the field? It's really not good, especially for a 7'3 max contract
3) Can he perform consistently during the 2nd halves of seasons?
4) Can he consistently post up players?
5) Can he pass?

The true Tier 1 bigs (and stars in general) don't have these many ? marks. They just don't. And age isn't an excuse

[taikibansei]

... is that his All-Star season, 2017-2018, was overrated. He played in 48 games, shot less than 44% from the field, and had fewer than 7 rebounds per game. IMO, people too easily fall in love with players who can break 20 ppg.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying he doesn't have the tools to be great; he does.

About that all-star season...little known fact, but as of December 31, 2017, the Knicks were 18-12 in the 30 games KP played, a .600 pace.

Yes, I get that this was “in the East.” That said, the second best player on that squad was THJ. Our starting point guard that season was the 34-year-old Jarrett Jack--a poor passer and worse (.455 eFG%, .489 TS%) shooter, this was to be his last year in the NBA. Jarrett was so ineffective that Coach Hornacek tried starting Mudiay and even Ntilikina for extended periods...only they were both even worse...so we went back to Jarrett. Think about that for a minute.

I watched most of the games that season. Typically, our go-to offense was a guard slowly walking the ball up court, then getting a single screen from somebody--usually KP--at the right side of the top of the key. As we did it almost every single time, and as there was no coordinated movement from the other players, this single screen was almost invariably ineffective. What followed was usually the guard doing one of two things: 1) make a mad rush to the basket (usually failing miserably), or 2) make a wild pass with the clock winding down “to somebody big” (usually KP), who would then put up a rushed shot (hoping it either went in or that Kanter would grab the offensive rebound).

Again, KP had that awful, poorly coached squad at a .600 pace through December 31. Things kind of went south in January...and then KP got injured at the beginning of February. Note that the Knicks would only win six (6) more games that season once KP went down, ending up 7-26 (.205) for the season when he did not play.

Yeah, KP got tired...from carrying that poorly constructed and even more poorly coached team. Carlisle immediately becomes by far the best coach KP has ever had. Luka immediately becomes the best teammate KP has ever had. (2015-16 Melo is his only real competition.) Pairing a healthy KP--another big if--with Luka and coached by Carlisle, that seems the foundation for a competitive team.

[taikibansei]

About the rebounding, two things I noticed while watching KP play.

First, on offense, our coach typically had KP start off standing at the top right of the key as a kind of safety valve for if (when) our guards got into trouble, leading to rushed shots by KP away from the basket. Accordingly, the offense itself cut down his numbers somewhat.

KP also does a good job boxing out, and sticks with the box out even if it means a teammate (Kanter) gets the rebound. This is why, as several people have posted in the other thread, the Knicks as a team rebounded much better when KP was on the court.

That said, I don't think KP is ever going to be a monster rebounder. I do, however, think he's going to be better at it this coming season. We'll see.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Porzingis has some of the worst shot selection in the league...that's why his % is so low, I think. That and he shoots a fair amount of threes I guess. I think that likely gets cleaned up in a few years though.

[Maury2423]

I think a lot of KP's issues were due to being a number 1 option on a bad team, constantly being hurt, and the anemia.

Now that KP will be playing with Luka, I think it will help him tremendously and his shot selection/efficiency will go up. As skilled as KP is, I don't think he can ever be a #1 option on a contender, so his role with Luka will be good for him and a joy to watch imo.

As far as his injury prone status, the jury is still out on this one. Hopefully he recovers well and doesn't have any more significant injuries for the rest of his career.

The anemia has a been a real problem with him and will likely continue, but with him having to carry a lighter load now compared to his days with the Knicks, I expect the anemia to not decrease his quality of play as much as it did with the Knicks.

And KP is NOT a good rebounder but also not a bad one, he's average. He started to improve with boxing out but watching him sometimes was very frustrating because he would rely too much on his length rather than boxing out. But that couldn't also be due to him being on the perimeter often because he refused to play C for extended minutes.

All in all, I wish him the best and I'm really excited to watch that duo for the coming years. I hope he starts to understand that the C position is the best position for him and any team that he plays for. I do think my Knicks made the right decision to move him and I feel like we got a great return for him, it's easy to look at what happened during FA and laugh but considering the position that we were in, it was the smarter move to trade KP for what we got in return rather than basically being forced to max him out coming off of his injury.

[sasquatchBob]

Not entirely true. That season for the first 25-30 games he was considered a top 20 player because he was that good. His main problem is conditioning. At the end of the season he will become an average offensive player (still elite defensively tho). If he manages to stay healthy and not run out of the steam, he is a top 15 player in the world.

[zonedefense]

When KP is mentioned some people simply cannot stay objective. There are a few over the top optimistic Mavs fans and an even bigger group of salty Knicks fans. Which is sad because it ruins every single debate about him.

[iLLmatic860]

When KP is mentioned some people simply cannot stay objective. There are a few over the top optimistic Mavs fans and an even bigger group of salty Knicks fans. Which is sad because it ruins every single debate about him.

Why will Knicks fans be salty if both teams can very well win this trade?

[blind prophet]

And he was what, 21 years old. I am not sure whats the deal with this constant Porzingis downplay as of late.

This =


Show me

Not rocket science bro.

[Sane]

He has incredible, reachable potential as a C.

But I don't think it's in the skillset that people hope. In the same breath you say he's great at protecting the rim, and then you say he can draw the big man out. Well, if his opponent draws him out of the paint, then his rim protection becomes practically pointless. On the perimeter, he was shaky, and everyone is hoping his lateral quickness hasn't deteriorated, and the league continues to draw big men out of the paint.

No need to downplay him at all. His FG% imo was a function of playing for a silly coach, with a silly roster, in a silly system, for a silly organization. Offensively, he'll have one of his most efficient seasons. Defensively, I think he may struggle, but I hope he beats the odds.

[zonedefense]

When KP is mentioned some people simply cannot stay objective. There are a few over the top optimistic Mavs fans and an even bigger group of salty Knicks fans. Which is sad because it ruins every single debate about him.

Why will Knicks fans be salty if both teams can very well win this trade?

I did not mean to include all fans of both teams but it pretty obvious in the responses. Mavs fans are ignoring the injury/durability/stamina problems. Some Knicks fans are acting like he is trash.

Your statement is closer to the truth. If KP did not want to be in NY a trade was the only solution and the Knicks at least got a decent package in return.

[Jellybeans]

When KP is mentioned some people simply cannot stay objective. There are a few over the top optimistic Mavs fans and an even bigger group of salty Knicks fans. Which is sad because it ruins every single debate about him.

Why will Knicks fans be salty if both teams can very well win this trade?

I did not mean to include all fans of both teams but it pretty obvious in the responses. Mavs fans are ignoring the injury/durability/stamina problems. Some Knicks fans are acting like he is trash.

Your statement is closer to the truth. If KP did not want to be in NY a trade was the only solution and the Knicks at least got a decent package in return.

Steven A Smith allready said that KP never asked for the trade

[Nazrmohamed]

Let me attempt to unconfuse you.

I commented on the same game by the same player. In the game you chose as an example of his defensive deficiencies, those deficiencies were not enough to prevent the team from winning, and he had an outstanding offensive game that contributed to the victory. In evaluating the the overall performance of the player, that seems obiously relevant.

You also compared his defensive deficiencies at center to KAT. But KAT has never had rim protection metrics on Porzingis's level. So I question whether Porzingis's better metrics are only an artifact of Porzingis's role, and would sink to KAT-like levels if he played more minutes at center.

E-balla, stop playing man. You know that whole Dwight Howard line was supposed to be your drop the Mike moment and he destroyed it. Dont be wrong and strong. People love picking out one game or even one or two sequences to define someone's career. Try again.

With that said though I find it funny how there was nobody around to jump to KPs defense while he was on the Knicks but now hes a maverick and everybody loves them some KP. Of course it's the crappy Knicks. So tell me, who right now on the Knicks is actually a good player that you wont admit to until he leaves?

Bro what? We're discussing his defense at C. Y'all can't even defend it so you're switching the topic. Stop with the random nonsense. And you know for a damn fact I've been talking about his defense negatively since 2017 and saying he needed to stop being soft. Stop it.

You have, that's for sure. But I didn't think it was fair ball then. I mean, him being bigger now isnt that out of the ordinary.Its only year 4 for a player who came in at 19? Fans just didnt have patience. What you call softness is simply lack of physical maturity. I could think of a litany things he did that show he wasn't soft. I'm scared of how good hes gonna look this year with that added strength. I bet he starts doing all the things you wish he did in 2017