If Lebron is the GOAT then how did he allow younger star players to catch him in rings already in his era?

[therealbig3]

Kobe has zero argument for best player on his team for 3 of his championships, so stop right there.

And even if some players of Lebron have as many rings as he does, so what? The next tie breaker would be what? Probably either how many Finals overall you've lead your team to, or MVP Awards.
So who wins if we look at those stats next?

What a weak argument. LBJ wasn't best player for his first ring, either. He also needed TWO other stars to win 3 (Wade+Bosh in Miami, Love & Irving in Clevelad). Kobe only had 1 certified star for all 5 of his rings.

How was LeBron not the best player for his first ring?

It actually hasn’t been debatable, LeBron has not only been the best player on his team for all 3 of his rings, he was the best player on the court, period, in all of those runs BY FAR. Like, the second best player on the court wasn’t even in the same stratosphere, especially if we look at just the Finals.

[WarriorGM]

Kobe has zero argument for best player on his team for 3 of his championships, so stop right there.

And even if some players of Lebron have as many rings as he does, so what? The next tie breaker would be what? Probably either how many Finals overall you've lead your team to, or MVP Awards.
So who wins if we look at those stats next?

What a weak argument. LBJ wasn't best player for his first ring, either. He also needed TWO other stars to win 3 (Wade+Bosh in Miami, Love & Irving in Clevelad). Kobe only had 1 certified star for all 5 of his rings.

How was LeBron not the best player for his first ring?

It actually hasn’t been debatable, LeBron has not only been the best player on his team for all 3 of his rings, he was the best player on the court, period, in all of those runs BY FAR. Like, the second best player on the court wasn’t even in the same stratosphere, especially if we look at just the Finals.

This is why Kyrie left. Kyrie is in the top ten in history for career ppg average in finals games.

[ProspectPark]

Is this seriously the GOAT?

Last minute of a 1 possession game in the Finals. Has Steph on an island. Clear path to the rim.

Instead of driving it on Curry, shooting over Curry, or posting Curry up...he decides to pass it to Tristan Thompson who is being guarded by DPOY Draymond Green.

Even worse, on the next possession, wants no part of guarding KD. Will let Rodney Hood who is in his first playoffs, guard the greatest scorer in the game.

But hey Lebron had a high PER so it’s all good

Watch on YouTube

I remember this game but after watching this again you can see who has killer instinct and who doesn’t.

Lebron who people consider the GOAT, has Steph Curry on him and decides to pass the ball. Right after that play KD went directly at him. Lebron let Rodney Hood guard him instead. Probably because he was tired of KD banging shots in his face. KD is a beast

I'll NEVER forget this shot. It's the shot that MADE Lebron try ot recruit KD all summer long, to no avail. Lebron probably switched conferences after this to avoid losing to KD, annually.

Can you imagine? You’re elite in the restricted zone. The opponent has zero rim protection, you’re guarded by Steph Curry, and you’re still too scared to drive it to the rim? This is like if Shaq had handles and was guarded by Curry, but still chose to pass.

Here is another one:

Again last minute of a 1 possession game in the Finals. Surrounded by shooters (Kyrie, JR Smith, Love, and Kyle Korver). How much more spacing could you possibly need. Warriors have zero shot blockers on the court.

At the 1 minute mark, Draymond is literally on all fours. You can see the indecisiveness, the hesitation. He can’t decide what he wants to do. So of course, he passes it to Korver. Look at where Steph is when Korver releases the shot.

After the miss, down 2, look at how KD with no hesitation, just hits a dagger in his face.

Watch on YouTube

[ProspectPark]

Even in an All-Star game. LeBron TWICE was too scared to take the last shot. Kobe laughed at him.

Watch on YouTube

[freethedevil]

Lebron has no argument for being the GOAT when he basically cheated his way to most of his accomplishments.

How can one cheat their way to accomplishments while also having the largest impact on his teams in history?

[HakeemAlAhlam]

Even in an All-Star game. LeBron TWICE was too scared to take the last shot. Kobe laughed at him.

Watch on YouTube

Troll confirmed, mentioning all star games

Lebron has the most game winners and buzzer beaters in the playoffs in nba history

[CIN-C-STAR]

Kobe has zero argument for best player on his team for 3 of his championships, so stop right there.

And even if some players of Lebron have as many rings as he does, so what? The next tie breaker would be what? Probably either how many Finals overall you've lead your team to, or MVP Awards.
So who wins if we look at those stats next?

What a weak argument. LBJ wasn't best player for his first ring, either. He also needed TWO other stars to win 3 (Wade+Bosh in Miami, Love & Irving in Clevelad). Kobe only had 1 certified star for all 5 of his rings.

How was LeBron not the best player for his first ring?

It actually hasn’t been debatable, LeBron has not only been the best player on his team for all 3 of his rings, he was the best player on the court, period, in all of those runs BY FAR. Like, the second best player on the court wasn’t even in the same stratosphere, especially if we look at just the Finals.

I agree he was the best player on his own team, and I assume that's what you meant, right?
But you said he was the best player on the court, which would include both teams, "BY FAR." If you mean both teams I would disagree. He shared the court with some legends in his Finals runs -- Dirk, Duncan, KD & Curry come to mind.

[Fencer reregistered]

Lebron is quite close to GOAT as a player.

As an executive, on the other hand ...

[therealbig3]

What a weak argument. LBJ wasn't best player for his first ring, either. He also needed TWO other stars to win 3 (Wade+Bosh in Miami, Love & Irving in Clevelad). Kobe only had 1 certified star for all 5 of his rings.

How was LeBron not the best player for his first ring?

It actually hasn’t been debatable, LeBron has not only been the best player on his team for all 3 of his rings, he was the best player on the court, period, in all of those runs BY FAR. Like, the second best player on the court wasn’t even in the same stratosphere, especially if we look at just the Finals.

I agree he was the best player on his own team, and I assume that's what you meant, right?
But you said he was the best player on the court, which would include both teams, "BY FAR." If you mean both teams I would disagree. He shared the court with some legends in his Finals runs -- Dirk, Duncan, KD & Curry come to mind.

I was talking about his championship runs. LeBron in the 2012 Finals was by far the best player on his own team and significantly outplayed Kevin Durant (insert ppg and TS%). He was by far the best player in the 2013 Finals and significantly outplayed whoever the best player on the Spurs was that year, be it Parker or Duncan. He was by far the best player on his own team in the 2016 Finals and significantly outplayed Curry.

I would say he was also the best player in the Finals in the 2014, 2017, and 2018 Finals as well, without a lot of hesitation. In 2007 and 2011, yeah, he didn't play well at all and other players were better, but the point I was refuting was with regards to his championship runs.

[The4thHorseman]

Even in an All-Star game. LeBron TWICE was too scared to take the last shot. Kobe laughed at him.

Watch on YouTube

When Wade broke Kobe's nose in the All-star game, his fans were screaming that it's just an exhibition game, that Wade was playing to hard.

But when Kobe blocks a few of LeBron's shots, they treat the AS game as if it were the Finals and bookmark for future reference.

[PistolPeteJR]

You are trying to move your goal post and make new argument.

Not at all. One FO brought about success, the other didn’t. So one star took matters into their own hands, since they could, and the other didn’t. It’s simple.

Argument was it's a team sport and winning is a lot about your team, I just pointed out that since 2010 no doubt James have had strongest supporting cast overall this decade. So don't downplay his teams, since he have had everything anyone could ever dream of in terms of teammates.

Kyrie, post-prime Wade and Love < KD, Klay, and Draymond. No two ways about it.

[Joerezz7]

Kobe has zero argument for best player on his team for 3 of his championships, so stop right there.

And even if some players of Lebron have as many rings as he does, so what? The next tie breaker would be what? Probably either how many Finals overall you've lead your team to, or MVP Awards.
So who wins if we look at those stats next?

What a weak argument. LBJ wasn't best player for his first ring, either. He also needed TWO other stars to win 3 (Wade+Bosh in Miami, Love & Irving in Clevelad). Kobe only had 1 certified star for all 5 of his rings.

How was LeBron not the best player for his first ring?

It actually hasn’t been debatable, LeBron has not only been the best player on his team for all 3 of his rings, he was the best player on the court, period, in all of those runs BY FAR. Like, the second best player on the court wasn’t even in the same stratosphere, especially if we look at just the Finals.

It still doesn’t change the fact that all these different people won multiple rings in Lebron era. Kobe didn’t allow that. Only person who got multiple rings in his era is Tim Duncan

[Bball_Truth]

He allowed younger star players like Steph and Klay to catch him in rings and they are younger. If KD played against the Raptors they would have more rings than him and KD would have the same amount of rings as him.

This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe and MJ. MJ went 6-0 in the Finals and Kobe went 5-2 in the Finals. Kobe would never allow younger star players to catch him in rings in his era. Same with MJ.

How can you be the GOAT when younger star players catch you in rings basically forming a dynasty in your era? Let’s not forget Dirk getting a ring in his era and he lost to a bum like Dwight Howard in 2009. Lakers manhandled that same Magic team.

Unless Lebron wins another ring you can’t put him in the same tier as lethal offense players like Kobe and MJ.

Saying the GOAT is the player with the most rings is a narrow minded and somewhat misleading definition. Is Bill Russell, with13 rings, a far better player than MJ? Is Robert Horry, with 7 rings, a better player than MJ?

[Bergmaniac]

Of all the threads to bump...

[Stillwater]

He allowed younger star players like Steph and Klay to catch him in rings and they are younger. If KD played against the Raptors they would have more rings than him and KD would have the same amount of rings as him.

This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe and MJ. MJ went 6-0 in the Finals and Kobe went 5-2 in the Finals. Kobe would never allow younger star players to catch him in rings in his era. Same with MJ.

How can you be the GOAT when younger star players catch you in rings basically forming a dynasty in your era? Let’s not forget Dirk getting a ring in his era and he lost to a bum like Dwight Howard in 2009. Lakers manhandled that same Magic team.

Unless Lebron wins another ring you can’t put him in the same tier as lethal offense players like Kobe and MJ.

Who cares if MJ or KOBE were the killers and Lebron wasn't, I mean if anything he has shown he can be...but is much better at creating for his teammates giving them chances to execute the highest % play and be successful than those 2 ever were and has the more complete resume as the GOAT even if his teammates often failed him.
The Goat without the most rings of course will always have people like yourself arguing against him but there are more factors than a players ability in play here.
the NBA despite being a star driven league always comes down to 2 things to win championships : LUCK and BBIQ of the rotation players.

[CIN-C-STAR]

What a weak argument. LBJ wasn't best player for his first ring, either. He also needed TWO other stars to win 3 (Wade+Bosh in Miami, Love & Irving in Clevelad). Kobe only had 1 certified star for all 5 of his rings.

How was LeBron not the best player for his first ring?

It actually hasn’t been debatable, LeBron has not only been the best player on his team for all 3 of his rings, he was the best player on the court, period, in all of those runs BY FAR. Like, the second best player on the court wasn’t even in the same stratosphere, especially if we look at just the Finals.

It still doesn’t change the fact that all these different people won multiple rings in Lebron era. Kobe didn’t allow that. Only person who got multiple rings in his era is Tim Duncan

What kinda Mamba Malarkey is this?
Kobe didn't even make the playoffs a couple seasons, so pretty sure others' inability to win multiple rings had to do with a lot more besides Kobe

[Joerezz7]

He allowed younger star players like Steph and Klay to catch him in rings and they are younger. If KD played against the Raptors they would have more rings than him and KD would have the same amount of rings as him.

This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe and MJ. MJ went 6-0 in the Finals and Kobe went 5-2 in the Finals. Kobe would never allow younger star players to catch him in rings in his era. Same with MJ.

How can you be the GOAT when younger star players catch you in rings basically forming a dynasty in your era? Let’s not forget Dirk getting a ring in his era and he lost to a bum like Dwight Howard in 2009. Lakers manhandled that same Magic team.

Unless Lebron wins another ring you can’t put him in the same tier as lethal offense players like Kobe and MJ.

Saying the GOAT is the player with the most rings is a narrow minded and somewhat misleading definition. Is Bill Russell, with13 rings, a far better player than MJ? Is Robert Horry, with 7 rings, a better player than MJ?

Did MJ allow multiple players or even another player to win multiple rings in his era? Bill Russell is considered one of the best big men of all time.

Robert Horry is a role player so I’m not sure why you mentioned him. We are talking about star players

[nikster]

Of all the threads to bump...

It was the OP that bumped it, for absolutely no reason at all...this guys crazy

[BigtimeNBAfan]

Kobe has zero argument for best player on his team for 3 of his championships, so stop right there.

And even if some players of Lebron have as many rings as he does, so what? The next tie breaker would be what? Probably either how many Finals overall you've lead your team to, or MVP Awards.
So who wins if we look at those stats next?

What a weak argument. LBJ wasn't best player for his first ring, either. He also needed TWO other stars to win 3 (Wade+Bosh in Miami, Love & Irving in Clevelad). Kobe only had 1 certified star for all 5 of his rings.

Lol at this. Lebron wasn't the best player on his first ring? You do realize he won the MVP of the league in 2012 as well as the Finals MVP. He averaged more points per game on a higher FG% than Dwade, had more assists, rebounds and steals. When chips were down trailing Boston 3-2 it was Lebron that completely took over and had one of the best playoff performances of all time to win in Boston and force a game 7.

Also Chris Bosh is not a star player. The Heat had one superstar and a good player in Dwade. Lamar Odom was a more efficient player on the Lakers titles than Bosh was for the Heat.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

He allowed younger star players like Steph and Klay to catch him in rings and they are younger. If KD played against the Raptors they would have more rings than him and KD would have the same amount of rings as him.

This is why Lebron will never be in the same tier as Kobe and MJ. MJ went 6-0 in the Finals and Kobe went 5-2 in the Finals. Kobe would never allow younger star players to catch him in rings in his era. Same with MJ.

How can you be the GOAT when younger star players catch you in rings basically forming a dynasty in your era? Let’s not forget Dirk getting a ring in his era and he lost to a bum like Dwight Howard in 2009. Lakers manhandled that same Magic team.

Unless Lebron wins another ring you can’t put him in the same tier as lethal offense players like Kobe and MJ.

Saying the GOAT is the player with the most rings is a narrow minded and somewhat misleading definition. Is Bill Russell, with13 rings, a far better player than MJ? Is Robert Horry, with 7 rings, a better player than MJ?

One fan on a message board won't put Lebron in the same range as Kobe. The rest of us will put him far ahead of Kobe where he belongs. There is more to basketball than ring count as you point out. His post doesn't even make sense since Kobe was caught by another star of his era. Tim Duncan has more mvps and more finals mvps than Kobe and has the same amount of rings.