Steph Top 10 All Time - According to Bleacher report

[dhsilv2]

People should legitimately stop considering Steph a point guard. The guy typically averages well below 7 assists and has played the role of a combo guard basically his entire career. If you pigeonhole Steph as a point guard I think he honestly isn't that impressive because his defense and playmaking, two traditional point guard attributes, aren't that great to be honest.

But if you look at Steph predominantly as a shooting guard, like I do, then he immediately becomes the 3rd, or 4th greatest SG of all time behind Wade/West and above Drexler.

Regardless he has no place near the top 10 and he still won't when his career is over, I reckon.

Consider that Moses Malone has 3 MVPs, a Finals MVP, was the greatest offensive rebounder of all time, and most people still don't have him in the top 10.

Moses doesn't have the stats of Curry and his MVPs came in somewhat weak seasons.

Just case and point - Curry has already passed Moses in career VORP in 25,585 less minutes played.

Moses is an all time great nba player, but his peak was not nearly as high at Curry's. if you took their top 6 seasons and compared them it wouldn't be a contest.

In terms of being the best offensive rebounder, I'm not sure that's a great argument. The reality is most NBA teams moved away from focusing on offensive rebounding because it was a poor strategy.

[WarriorGM]

Moses doesn't have the stats of Curry.

You're right. Even I'm surprised at how large the gulf is.

http://bkref.com/tiny/qvuQw
http://bkref.com/tiny/hbv2c

[dhsilv2]

Moses doesn't have the stats of Curry.

You're right. Even I'm surprised at how large the gulf is.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=malonmo01&y1=1982&player_id2=curryst01&y2=2017

Did you mean to compare 1 season for each player?

Look at the rate metrics when we use a 6 year peak for curry vs a 3 year peak for moses.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html#2014-2019-sum:advanced

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonmo01.html#1981-1983-sum:advanced

[WarriorGM]

Moses doesn't have the stats of Curry.

You're right. Even I'm surprised at how large the gulf is.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=malonmo01&y1=1982&player_id2=curryst01&y2=2017

Did you mean to compare 1 season for each player?

I was trying to compare their best year against one another and did Moses's 1982 vs. Curry's 2017 but I realized 1982 vs. 2016 and 1983 vs. 2017 were more germane since their situations on their teams were more similar those years.

I'm not sure who peaked higher between them, but Moses has a lot of advantages over Curry.

Name them.

Moses was far better defensive player. His rebounding ability was extremely impactful skill (his teams were always among the best rebounding teams in the league). He was much more dominant inside pressence and his offensive rebounding wrapped defenses in a way Curry's three point shooting does. Moses also drew fouls at extreme level and (unlike Shaq or Wilt) he made FTs at very high efficiency.

Not to mention that he was extremely portable and could be thrown into any team and succeed because he wasn't ball dominant player - that's something you praise Curry so much for.

Again, I'm not sure who would I take in terms of peak but Moses was three time MVP that led one of the best teams of all-time. Sounds similar to Curry, right?

Sounds similar but look at the numbers in the links above and it will be obvious why Curry has had more team success. Even the defensive advantage I was assuming for Moses doesn't show up in the numbers.

[70sFan]

You're right. Even I'm surprised at how large the gulf is.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=malonmo01&y1=1982&player_id2=curryst01&y2=2017

Did you mean to compare 1 season for each player?

I was trying to compare their best year against one another and did Moses's 1982 vs. Curry's 2017 but I realized 1982 vs. 2016 and 1983 vs. 2017 were more germane since their situations on their teams were more similar those years.

Name them.

Moses was far better defensive player. His rebounding ability was extremely impactful skill (his teams were always among the best rebounding teams in the league). He was much more dominant inside pressence and his offensive rebounding wrapped defenses in a way Curry's three point shooting does. Moses also drew fouls at extreme level and (unlike Shaq or Wilt) he made FTs at very high efficiency.

Not to mention that he was extremely portable and could be thrown into any team and succeed because he wasn't ball dominant player - that's something you praise Curry so much for.

Again, I'm not sure who would I take in terms of peak but Moses was three time MVP that led one of the best teams of all-time. Sounds similar to Curry, right?

Sounds similar but look at the numbers in the links above and it will be obvious why Curry had more team success. Even the defensive advantage I was assuming for Moses doesn't show up in the numbers.

What numbers are you talking about?

[WarriorGM]

Did you mean to compare 1 season for each player?

I was trying to compare their best year against one another and did Moses's 1982 vs. Curry's 2017 but I realized 1982 vs. 2016 and 1983 vs. 2017 were more germane since their situations on their teams were more similar those years.

Moses was far better defensive player. His rebounding ability was extremely impactful skill (his teams were always among the best rebounding teams in the league). He was much more dominant inside pressence and his offensive rebounding wrapped defenses in a way Curry's three point shooting does. Moses also drew fouls at extreme level and (unlike Shaq or Wilt) he made FTs at very high efficiency.

Not to mention that he was extremely portable and could be thrown into any team and succeed because he wasn't ball dominant player - that's something you praise Curry so much for.

Again, I'm not sure who would I take in terms of peak but Moses was three time MVP that led one of the best teams of all-time. Sounds similar to Curry, right?

Sounds similar but look at the numbers in the links above and it will be obvious why Curry had more team success. Even the defensive advantage I was assuming for Moses doesn't show up in the numbers.

What numbers are you talking about?

Most of them but most clearly in the Advanced section.

There aren't any good defensive metrics but DWS, DBPM, DRtg in the above are even at least in 1982 vs. 2016.

[70sFan]

I was trying to compare their best year against one another and did Moses's 1982 vs. Curry's 2017 but I realized 1982 vs. 2016 and 1983 vs. 2017 were more germane since their situations on their teams were more similar those years.



Sounds similar but look at the numbers in the links above and it will be obvious why Curry had more team success. Even the defensive advantage I was assuming for Moses doesn't show up in the numbers.

What numbers are you talking about?

Most of them but most clearly in the Advanced section.

There aren't any good defensive metrics but DWS, DBPM, DRtg in the above are even at least in 1982 vs. 2016.

Moses has better PER, FTr, rebounds%, BLK%, TOV% and lesser USG%. He also has basicaly even WS/48.

I never use this stats as an argument, but you are wrong here.

[WarriorGM]

What numbers are you talking about?

Most of them but most clearly in the Advanced section.

There aren't any good defensive metrics but DWS, DBPM, DRtg in the above are even at least in 1982 vs. 2016.

Moses has better PER, FTr, rebounds%, BLK%, TOV% and lesser USG%. He also has basicaly even WS/48.

I never use this stats as an argument, but you are wrong here.

I probably am choosing 2016 as the comparison year if we are talking solely about playoffs performance since Curry was injured for several games. Compare to 2015, however, and my initial impression is the same.

[70sFan]

Most of them but most clearly in the Advanced section.

There aren't any good defensive metrics but DWS, DBPM, DRtg in the above are even at least in 1982 vs. 2016.

Moses has better PER, FTr, rebounds%, BLK%, TOV% and lesser USG%. He also has basicaly even WS/48.

I never use this stats as an argument, but you are wrong here.

I probably am choosing 2016 as the comparison year if we are talking solely about playoffs performance since Curry was injured for several games. Compare to 2015, however, and my initial impression is the same.

You compare 21 games playoffs run to 3 games exit against better defensive team than any Curry faced in 2015 playoffs.

Why don't you compare it to 1983 playoffs run? Maybe because Curry doesn't look that much better then? Even though Moses faced 2 amazing defensive teams in Knicks and Bucks, then he faced defending champions with Kareem in the middle.

[WarriorGM]

Moses has better PER, FTr, rebounds%, BLK%, TOV% and lesser USG%. He also has basicaly even WS/48.

I never use this stats as an argument, but you are wrong here.

I probably am choosing 2016 as the comparison year if we are talking solely about playoffs performance since Curry was injured for several games. Compare to 2015, however, and my initial impression is the same.

You compare 21 games playoffs run to 3 games exit against better defensive team than any Curry faced in 2015 playoffs.

Why don't you compare it to 1983 playoffs run? Maybe because Curry doesn't look that much better then? Even though Moses faced 2 amazing defensive teams in Knicks and Bucks, then he faced defending champions with Kareem in the middle.

The comparison between 1983 and 2017 was already given. Go have a look. Curry looks better.

[70sFan]

I probably am choosing 2016 as the comparison year if we are talking solely about playoffs performance since Curry was injured for several games. Compare to 2015, however, and my initial impression is the same.

You compare 21 games playoffs run to 3 games exit against better defensive team than any Curry faced in 2015 playoffs.

Why don't you compare it to 1983 playoffs run? Maybe because Curry doesn't look that much better then? Even though Moses faced 2 amazing defensive teams in Knicks and Bucks, then he faced defending champions with Kareem in the middle.

The comparison between 1983 and 2017 was already given. Go have a look.

Yeah and the difference is minimal, especially given that Moses faced far better competition.

[WarriorGM]

I probably am choosing 2016 as the comparison year if we are talking solely about playoffs performance since Curry was injured for several games. Compare to 2015, however, and my initial impression is the same.

You compare 21 games playoffs run to 3 games exit against better defensive team than any Curry faced in 2015 playoffs.

Why don't you compare it to 1983 playoffs run? Maybe because Curry doesn't look that much better then? Even though Moses faced 2 amazing defensive teams in Knicks and Bucks, then he faced defending champions with Kareem in the middle.

The comparison between 1983 and 2017 was already given. Go have a look.

[WarriorGM]

You compare 21 games playoffs run to 3 games exit against better defensive team than any Curry faced in 2015 playoffs.

Why don't you compare it to 1983 playoffs run? Maybe because Curry doesn't look that much better then? Even though Moses faced 2 amazing defensive teams in Knicks and Bucks, then he faced defending champions with Kareem in the middle.

The comparison between 1983 and 2017 was already given. Go have a look.

Yeah and the difference is minimal, especially given that Moses faced far better competition.

You're entitled to your opinion but the Warriors faced the top 2 defensive teams of that season aside from themselves and then in the finals faced a team with the highest playoffs offensive rating of all-time that had gone 12-1 up to that point in the playoffs and who were the defending champions and arguably LeBron's best team in his career.

And no the difference wasn't minimal.

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                 
Player           Season  G  MP  PER  TS%  FTr TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS  WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM  BPM VORP
Stephen Curry   2016-17 17 601 27.1 .659 .365  9.5 29.5  2.7  0.5 13.8 30.0 2.3 1.1 3.4  .272  9.1  1.7 10.8  2.0
Moses Malone*   1982-83 13 524 25.7 .587 .511 21.9  6.1  1.8  2.8 12.2 26.0 1.6 1.2 2.8  .260  3.3  2.5  5.8  1.0


Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 9/30/2019.

[dhsilv2]

The comparison between 1983 and 2017 was already given. Go have a look.

Yeah and the difference is minimal, especially given that Moses faced far better competition.

You're entitled to your opinion but the Warriors faced the top 2 defensive teams of that season aside from themselves and then in the finals faced a team with the highest playoffs offensive rating of all-time that had gone 12-1 up to that point in the playoffs and who were the defending champions and arguably LeBron's best team in his career.

I really don't follow an argument that Moses played better teams in the playoffs, really any year.

81 - they played the 6th best defense in the lakers in the first round (best defense in the west they played) and then 4th best in the celtics. To win the conference finals they played a down right bad kings team.
82 - short series but ok sonics were a good defense.
83 - ok here their east teams all had good defenses are poor offenses.

nothing there stands out as clearly better than what the warriors faced.

[70sFan]

The comparison between 1983 and 2017 was already given. Go have a look.

Yeah and the difference is minimal, especially given that Moses faced far better competition.

You're entitled to your opinion but the Warriors faced the top 2 defensive teams of that season aside from themselves and then in the finals faced a team with the highest playoffs offensive rating of all-time that had gone 12-1 up to that point in playoffs and who were the defending champions and arguably LeBron's best team.

Warriors faced -3.5 rDRtg (Jazz), -5.3 rDRtg (Spurs) and +1.5 rDRtg (Cavs).
Sixers faced -4.8 rDRtg (Knicks), -3.3 rDRtg (Bucks) and +0.5 rDRtg (Lakers).

Looks similar, except that Spurs lost Kawhi in their first game and the series wasn't competitive at all.

I won't argue with you again, you are only focused on Curry's accomplishements and you are completely blind on others.

[70sFan]

Yeah and the difference is minimal, especially given that Moses faced far better competition.

You're entitled to your opinion but the Warriors faced the top 2 defensive teams of that season aside from themselves and then in the finals faced a team with the highest playoffs offensive rating of all-time that had gone 12-1 up to that point in the playoffs and who were the defending champions and arguably LeBron's best team in his career.

I really don't follow an argument that Moses played better teams in the playoffs, really any year.

81 - they played the 6th best defense in the lakers in the first round (best defense in the west they played) and then 4th best in the celtics. To win the conference finals they played a down right bad kings team.
82 - short series but ok sonics were a good defense.
83 - ok here their east teams all had good defenses are poor offenses.

nothing there stands out as clearly better than what the warriors faced.

Bucks were decent offensive team and Lakers were excellent. Moses was usually good against elite defensive teams.

[dhsilv2]

You're entitled to your opinion but the Warriors faced the top 2 defensive teams of that season aside from themselves and then in the finals faced a team with the highest playoffs offensive rating of all-time that had gone 12-1 up to that point in the playoffs and who were the defending champions and arguably LeBron's best team in his career.

I really don't follow an argument that Moses played better teams in the playoffs, really any year.

81 - they played the 6th best defense in the lakers in the first round (best defense in the west they played) and then 4th best in the celtics. To win the conference finals they played a down right bad kings team.
82 - short series but ok sonics were a good defense.
83 - ok here their east teams all had good defenses are poor offenses.

nothing there stands out as clearly better than what the warriors faced.

Bucks were decent offensive team and Lakers were excellent. Moses was usually good against elite defensive teams.

10th out of 23 teams given the context of the playoffs is pretty weak. Yes the lakers were a great offense but they were a weak defense.

[70sFan]

I really don't follow an argument that Moses played better teams in the playoffs, really any year.

81 - they played the 6th best defense in the lakers in the first round (best defense in the west they played) and then 4th best in the celtics. To win the conference finals they played a down right bad kings team.
82 - short series but ok sonics were a good defense.
83 - ok here their east teams all had good defenses are poor offenses.

nothing there stands out as clearly better than what the warriors faced.

Bucks were decent offensive team and Lakers were excellent. Moses was usually good against elite defensive teams.

10th out of 23 teams given the context of the playoffs is pretty weak. Yes the lakers were a great offense but they were a weak defense.

+1.1 rORtg is not terrible at all.
Lakera were better defensively than Cavs.

[clyde21]

Lol @ anyone that would take Moses over Steph

[dhsilv2]

Bucks were decent offensive team and Lakers were excellent. Moses was usually good against elite defensive teams.

10th out of 23 teams given the context of the playoffs is pretty weak. Yes the lakers were a great offense but they were a weak defense.

+1.1 rORtg is not terrible at all.
Lakera were better defensively than Cavs.

Again, you have to use the context of the playoffs. The best teams make it. Being slightly better than league average is poor for the playoffs.