VanVleet: Toronto is somewhere I can live for a long time

[Dalek]

I have long been a fan of Van Vleet as he is the heir apparent to Lowry. Looking at his progress it is pretty similar to Lowry at the same age.

Kyle Lowry 2010-11 34.2 MINS .426 FG% (4.6) .376 THREE% 6.7 ASTS 13.5 PPG
Fred VanVleet 2018-19 27.5 MINS .410 FG%(4.6) .378 THREE% 4.8 ASTS 11.0 PPG

http://bkref.com/tiny/CnkEp

If you look at years in the league FVV would come out ahead. I know it is different teams and systems but FVV is still right there and he has the perfect mentor in Lowry.

I think his combination of shooting, sticky defense and the ability to lead a team both on and off the court warrant a $15 million deal. I don't think you would be stuck with Van Vleet at that number and to be honest, it is tough to find a good lead guard like him.

The playoffs were a mixed bag, and he looked lost against Philly, but he came through in Finals. Big game players are so vital and he has proven to be an asset on-court. The problem is everyone compares him to Lowry now when he hasn't had the reps. He can be just as good.

This is laughable, FVV can't run an offense to save his life. Dribble dribble, wave off pick, dribble into post, dribble out of post, lose the ball is his favorite play. He can't run an offense to save his life. He can be shut down when the defense puts a bigger guard on him at the 2. Fred is garbage and not worth more than 7 - 8 mil / year.

I mean he is already making $9m a season, and unless his play completely falls off he is not going to be looking at a pay cut.

I think he has room to improve, and one of them is finding better passing angles like Lowry does. Both are pretty similar in height, so it is not impossible for him to improve -- it isn't a physical limitation at all.

My big thing is this guy can hit deep threes and that stretches the defense. Most of his best results come from catch and shoot and open threes, so you need to have him play with additional playmaking.

When he has a guy like Lowry or Wright beside him he is just that much more effective. I really think that is why they brought Pat McCaw back to play that Delon Wright role.

[Clay Davis]

I have long been a fan of Van Vleet as he is the heir apparent to Lowry. Looking at his progress it is pretty similar to Lowry at the same age.

Kyle Lowry 2010-11 34.2 MINS .426 FG% (4.6) .376 THREE% 6.7 ASTS 13.5 PPG
Fred VanVleet 2018-19 27.5 MINS .410 FG%(4.6) .378 THREE% 4.8 ASTS 11.0 PPG

http://bkref.com/tiny/CnkEp

If you look at years in the league FVV would come out ahead. I know it is different teams and systems but FVV is still right there and he has the perfect mentor in Lowry.

I think his combination of shooting, sticky defense and the ability to lead a team both on and off the court warrant a $15 million deal. I don't think you would be stuck with Van Vleet at that number and to be honest, it is tough to find a good lead guard like him.

The playoffs were a mixed bag, and he looked lost against Philly, but he came through in Finals. Big game players are so vital and he has proven to be an asset on-court. The problem is everyone compares him to Lowry now when he hasn't had the reps. He can be just as good.

This is laughable, FVV can't run an offense to save his life. Dribble dribble, wave off pick, dribble into post, dribble out of post, lose the ball is his favorite play. He can't run an offense to save his life. He can be shut down when the defense puts a bigger guard on him at the 2. Fred is garbage and not worth more than 7 - 8 mil / year.

Did you not read his entire post?

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[libertyYYZ]

So, 10% of $151M salary cap in a couple of years for a top 15 PG is doable. If he projects as a backup point guard + 4th quarter closer, he might be a slight overpay, but then again, you have to put out the best available talent. FVV's a winner and has shown that from his first training camp when people were noticing that the kid can play.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2016/10/07/fred-vanvleet-turning-heads-at-raptors-training-camp.html
TRoss: “Fred, man. Fred’s been ballin.’ ”

Watch on YouTube

I'm super torn.

I love Fred, love him so much.

But investing 15-17 million for at best a top 15 point guard, but more realistically a very good bench point guard seems like a dangerous proposition going forward.

[ReaLiez]

2-3 years for 12-15 million sounds about right to me. If we want him to be the PG of the future (5 years) You cannot go higher than 12 million IMO

[vbmeer]

He'a going to ask for 20 million a year. And he'll get it from somewhere that's not Toronto.

[ConSarnit]

Anything above $15/year seems insane to me. Even $12 is high. FVV can hit threes and play defense. He’s a backup pg OR a starter on a team with 2 quality playmakers. He can’t run an offense. I like him as a player but he has limitations. We can’t hamstring the team because he hit some clutch 3s and we’re sentimental.

[2019nbachamps]

Its very easy to find guys that can give you 10 ppg off the bench in the NBA. That's why you don't pay $10+ million for them. This is one of those situations where its best for both sides to let the player walk. Doesn't make sense for us to overpay for a guy that is going to be a 6th man at best. Doesn't make sense for FVV to take a discount when there will be around $20M per year out there waiting for him. I'm happy for the guy and don't fault him one bit for wanting to max his earnings. He's the type of guy that is 1 injury or bad season away from being out of the NBA. But I don't want my team giving him what will end up being the biggest payday of his career.

[Psubs]

Its very easy to find guys that can give you 10 ppg off the bench in the NBA. That's why you don't pay $10+ million for them. This is one of those situations where its best for both sides to let the player walk. Doesn't make sense for us to overpay for a guy that is going to be a 6th man at best. Doesn't make sense for FVV to take a discount when there will be around $20M per year out there waiting for him. I'm happy for the guy and don't fault him one bit for wanting to max his earnings. He's the type of guy that is 1 injury or bad season away from being out of the NBA. But I don't want my team giving him what will end up being the biggest payday of his career.

But it's hard to find the clutchness in the playoffs.

[team edward]

This is a big year for Fred. He has a lot to prove and a lot on the line. I hope he kills it and earns a fat contract from Masai.

[poomaster]

Its very easy to find guys that can give you 10 ppg off the bench in the NBA. That's why you don't pay $10+ million for them. This is one of those situations where its best for both sides to let the player walk. Doesn't make sense for us to overpay for a guy that is going to be a 6th man at best. Doesn't make sense for FVV to take a discount when there will be around $20M per year out there waiting for him. I'm happy for the guy and don't fault him one bit for wanting to max his earnings. He's the type of guy that is 1 injury or bad season away from being out of the NBA. But I don't want my team giving him what will end up being the biggest payday of his career.

But it's hard to find the clutchness in the playoffs.

Clutchness?

Series vs Orlando - the minute he steps on the floor we start losing leads and starters have to come back in
Series vs Sixers - probably the worst playoff performance I have seen of any player in the playoff history.
Bucks- first 3 games, unplayable pile of garbage

Where was the clutchness in the first two and a half series? It was an unwatchable pile of dog feces.

He is worth no more than 7 -8 , 9 mil / year tops. If someone wants to overpay let them.

[NirvanaFC]

Its very easy to find guys that can give you 10 ppg off the bench in the NBA. That's why you don't pay $10+ million for them. This is one of those situations where its best for both sides to let the player walk. Doesn't make sense for us to overpay for a guy that is going to be a 6th man at best. Doesn't make sense for FVV to take a discount when there will be around $20M per year out there waiting for him. I'm happy for the guy and don't fault him one bit for wanting to max his earnings. He's the type of guy that is 1 injury or bad season away from being out of the NBA. But I don't want my team giving him what will end up being the biggest payday of his career.

But it's hard to find the clutchness in the playoffs.

Clutchness?

Series vs Orlando - the minute he steps on the floor we start losing leads and starters have to come back in
Series vs Sixers - probably the worst playoff performance I have seen of any player in the playoff history.
Bucks- first 3 games, unplayable pile of garbage

Where was the clutchness in the first two and a half series? It was an unwatchable pile of dog feces.

He is worth no more than 7 -8 , 9 mil / year tops. If someone wants to overpay let them.

How about his defense? Specifically vs. Curry

[2019nbachamps]

But it's hard to find the clutchness in the playoffs.

Clutchness?

Series vs Orlando - the minute he steps on the floor we start losing leads and starters have to come back in
Series vs Sixers - probably the worst playoff performance I have seen of any player in the playoff history.
Bucks- first 3 games, unplayable pile of garbage

Where was the clutchness in the first two and a half series? It was an unwatchable pile of dog feces.

He is worth no more than 7 -8 , 9 mil / year tops. If someone wants to overpay let them.

How about his defense? Specifically vs. Curry

The question is, is his productivity worth $15-20m a year? 11 ppg + clutchness + decent defense is not. We can replace him through the draft, free agency, etc for far less. I don't blame FVV one bit for going to the highest bidder. Given Masai's history I don't see him resigning him.

[Rapsalot]

I would love to give FVV a little raise not a big raise and use him as 6th man type. I think we will have to trade or draft a new starting quality PG.

[will]

Frederick Edmund VanVleet Sr.

Please say the Senior.

[xAIRNESSx]

If only Kawhi felt this way...

[will]

If only Kawhi felt this way...

He feels this way about playing in Los Angeles

[The_Hater]

For the right offer I'd move him. He'll always struggle against bigger lineups, anything above 15/year is crazy. He's a great third guard not more not less.

If he’s just a 3rd guard then you need to ask yourself why he was usually one of the 5 players in the closing lineup for the 2019 NBA champions?

Just because he’s not as good as Lowry doesn’t mean he wouldn’t start for about 12-15 NBA teams. He defends, he has range, he rarely turns the ball over. There are a lot more positives than negatives in his game.

[jimmy keys]

For the right offer I'd move him. He'll always struggle against bigger lineups, anything above 15/year is crazy. He's a great third guard not more not less.

If he’s just a 3rd guard then you need to ask yourself why he was usually one of the 5 players in the closing lineup for the 2019 NBA champions?

Just because he’s not as good as Lowry doesn’t mean he wouldn’t start for about 12-15 NBA teams. He defends, he has range, he rarely turns the ball over. There are a lot more positives than negatives in his game.

I like FVV just not at Rozier money.

[The_Hater]

For the right offer I'd move him. He'll always struggle against bigger lineups, anything above 15/year is crazy. He's a great third guard not more not less.

If he’s just a 3rd guard then you need to ask yourself why he was usually one of the 5 players in the closing lineup for the 2019 NBA champions?

Just because he’s not as good as Lowry doesn’t mean he wouldn’t start for about 12-15 NBA teams. He defends, he has range, he rarely turns the ball over. There are a lot more positives than negatives in his game.

I like FVV just not at Rozier money.

I don’t like Rozier at Rozier money. That was the worst contract of the summer imo.

There are similarities between them but I would still take FVV over Rozier going forward.

[Courtside]

Fred is worth keeping, but unless he shows otherwise this year, he's a probably a 3/36 kind of player, or maybe 4/50. Basically a lower tier starter, elite backup, or sparkplug combo guard with the right PG ahead of him.

It's a contract season so he knows he needs to a show a lot more than shooting to earn his next deal - I'm glad we'll benefit from that.