Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers

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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#61 » by Greatness » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:09 pm

Forte IV wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
Forte IV wrote:
You're further proving my point by not even responding to my question. Prove it to me. I'm not trolling. I'm trying to bring actual debate into these forums. The last few months have been nothing but people yelling at people with no substance. Have substance. Have evidence. Simply saying something doesn't prove anything. You can't keep relying on the "well it's LeBron" argument. If that argument still held true the Lakers would have made the playoffs last year even when the team was battling injuries.

Last year LeBron had a better RPM, ORPM, DRPM, PER, TS%, WS/48, win shares, VORP, BPM, OBPM, DBPM. He averaged more points, rebounds, and assists.

If you're not trolling then that is even worse. If you want these threads to go better in the future then you should probably avoid nonsense like "I'd take Jrue Holiday over LeBron James". You can't expect people to take "I want serious discussion" seriously when you make a statement like that. It makes your purpose very transparent.



Thank you. That's all I wanted. People need to understand the basic concept of debate. There are two sides, and someone has to take it. So I took it. Obviously LeBron is better than Jrue, but I had to come up with something to spark debate and take my side of the debate.

So you purposely said something ridiculous just to elicit a reaction? And you say you want a serious discussion. That is really not the way to accomplish that.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#62 » by BallinBug » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:16 pm

Forte IV wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
Forte IV wrote: I want this to be a positive, productive conversation.



Forte IV wrote: I promise you, on my mama, this isn't a troll post.






Forte IV wrote: I'd honestly take Jrue Holiday over LeBron right now.


:lol:


Instead of lowering this thread's value by not contributing how about you prove me wrong? Don't just say, well "it's LeBron". That's lazy and not insightful at all. My argument is that Jrue Holiday's overall impact is greater currently, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Explain to me why, don't be a child about it.

People are missing my overall point with this thread and future ones. I'm trying to start rationale and good spirited debate. We've had an influx of people stating their opinions without any concrete answer or proof to back it up. When someone doesn't agree with them they've resorted to name calling like it's grade school. So once again, prove why I'm wrong.


You gave no valid reason for Jrue > Lebron besides saying that he has better defense... Which doesn't make up for the massive gulf between Lebrons 27/7/8 and Jrue's statline. Advanced stats paint an even uglier picture of that comparison. It's ridiculous. You're basically saying Lebron is top 30 player.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#63 » by Benedict_Boozer » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:17 pm

The West will come down to injury - plain and simple. Whoever has their stars and roster the most healthy will win, that applies to both the Clippers and Lakers - who both have significant injury risks - as well as the other West contenders. The margin between the top contenders in the West is pretty narrow, all have flaws.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#64 » by TheRealKaboom » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:29 pm

levon wrote:
Yallbecrazy wrote:
levon wrote:They'll most likely have 2 of the best 3 players on the floor at all times. Should have elite rim protection and decent shooting. They have the best 2 way player in the game in AD (no, it's not Paul George and it certainly isn't Kawhi anymore, arguably Embiid).


AD isn't a two way player. His rim protection instincts are severely lacking

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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#65 » by mademan » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:33 pm

my man legit said Jrue Holiday>Lebron, but acts like he's not trolling. Cmon son
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#66 » by RoyceDa59 » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:35 pm

I think the Lakers will surprise come playoff time and win the championship.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#67 » by Lost Angel » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:41 pm

XxIronChainzxX wrote:I think the crux of the issue is your comparison with Jrue. LeBron in his Miami days was a monster - his peak was one of the greatest in NBA history and subject to Curry's cheatcode regular season the greatest since prime MJ.

LeBron has fallen off from his peak to something closer to James Harden territory. That's still a great player. LeBron's dangerousness IMO was masked last season by a truly bonkers lineup - most of the guys he played with were nonentities on offense or just plain not NBA caliber players. AD by himself is a huge upgrade. He's the by far best player since prime Wade LeBron's ever played with, and we may end up debating that even very soon.

All of this is to say that you're underrating the top end of the team a fair bit.

The second, I think, is that you're underrating the value of Danny Green - especially in the regular season getting the benefit of LeBron + AD as a catch & shoot guy. I think he'll be a dangerous release valve for an SL that's playing 3 on 5 on offense with 2 guys who demand doubles.

The biggest thing is the playoffs. People have this misconception that Finals contenders have to win pretty or win early. But that's not necessarily true. You can make the Finals by being barely above .500 against good teams - a 12-9 record in the playoffs is a finalist. That's a 47-win pace.

LeBron and AD are dangerous and if they peak in the same game they'll be very hard to beat. It's tough to see what team outside of the Clippers can take 4/7 from them in that scenario.

The Lakers issue is more the regular season.



Good post. people love to trash kuzma and green, but those two are good players. Rondo works well with shooters, he was bad last year because, well, the entire team was bad. He’ll be better this year also.

JaVale is no longer a scrub either, the Lakers will have excellent rim protection, rebounding, and much better shooting.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#68 » by yoyoboy » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:43 pm

The problem with the Lakers is Rondo is the starting PG and McGee will be getting minutes he doesn't deserve. That's why they're not a true contender.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#69 » by Yallbecrazy » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:46 pm

TheRealKaboom wrote:
levon wrote:
Yallbecrazy wrote:
AD isn't a two way player. His rim protection instincts are severely lacking

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Keep doubting my opinions, they have been proven right years later constantly.

Anthony Davis is an incredible athlete with great length and ability to block shots, he just gets out of position and doesn't rotate well to protect the rim which is the most important skill for a big man. That's why he's not a great defender and not close to a top 2 way player.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#70 » by mademan » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:46 pm

Lebron-AD PnR with moderately alright shooters spacing is probably the best offensive set in the league (maybe Harden PnR challenges).
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#71 » by triple_threat » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:49 pm

XxIronChainzxX wrote:
triple_threat wrote:
Forte IV wrote:

Explain why we should be scared. You provided no points to back up your claim. I'm asking for reasons why you think this. You can't just post a lineup and not give context about it. Convince me why I'm wrong. I gave my reasons, you haven't. Give me some statistical evidence, or something. Not a generic "well it's LeBron" answer.


Here, let me help out:

1) Lebron was sore after practice - who cares? Lebron is far from washed. You saying he has sore feet after practice doesn't mean anything.

2) Lebron at 35 >> Jrue at any age. Jrue's states are laughable compared to Lebron's. Also, you mentioned defence, but this is the first time in Lebron's career where he is playing wiht a true defensive anchor in the paint, which will do wonders for him on that end. History has proven that - e.g., Paul Pierece and Ray Allen were nobodies on defence until they got an anchor in KG. Watch everyones defense look better with AD in the paint.

3) They actually have role players - Danny Green is far better than any role player that Lebron played with last year. Avery Bradley has good role player potential. Mcgee is still there and he is best served as an energizer off the bench IMO, which is why i like the talks taht Dwight is playing with the first unit. Kuzma could be a great 6th man for them (they should have enough fire power in the first unit) - far greater than anyone else they had. Rondo and Caruso are suspect, but, overall, i like the fact that they have players that can actually play a role rather than young talent with no role definition - this is what a win now team needs.

4) Frank Vogell and Jason Kidd - IMO, big upgrade from Luke Walton.


You can't really believe Jason Kidd is an upgrade from anyone?


Kidd has one of the best bball iqs ever, but in his role as assistant, i think the value lies more in him appearing to be a "player's coach." I can see him motivating the team.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#72 » by XxIronChainzxX » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:53 pm

triple_threat wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
triple_threat wrote:
Here, let me help out:

1) Lebron was sore after practice - who cares? Lebron is far from washed. You saying he has sore feet after practice doesn't mean anything.

2) Lebron at 35 >> Jrue at any age. Jrue's states are laughable compared to Lebron's. Also, you mentioned defence, but this is the first time in Lebron's career where he is playing wiht a true defensive anchor in the paint, which will do wonders for him on that end. History has proven that - e.g., Paul Pierece and Ray Allen were nobodies on defence until they got an anchor in KG. Watch everyones defense look better with AD in the paint.

3) They actually have role players - Danny Green is far better than any role player that Lebron played with last year. Avery Bradley has good role player potential. Mcgee is still there and he is best served as an energizer off the bench IMO, which is why i like the talks taht Dwight is playing with the first unit. Kuzma could be a great 6th man for them (they should have enough fire power in the first unit) - far greater than anyone else they had. Rondo and Caruso are suspect, but, overall, i like the fact that they have players that can actually play a role rather than young talent with no role definition - this is what a win now team needs.

4) Frank Vogell and Jason Kidd - IMO, big upgrade from Luke Walton.


You can't really believe Jason Kidd is an upgrade from anyone?


Kidd has one of the best bball iqs ever, but in his role as assistant, i think the value lies more in him appearing to be a "player's coach." I can see him motivating the team.


We'll see. I think he'll spend most of his time sharpening his knife for Vogell.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#73 » by nikster » Tue Oct 1, 2019 5:55 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:They have a lot of players that have made defensive teams like the 2019 Raptors. Kuzma gives similar scoring production to Pippen. LeBron and Davis can give similar offensive production to Jordan. If this team is healthy then I have them as favorites over the Clippers to win the championship.

Wow...not sure if that’s worse than the Lebron-Jrue comparison
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#74 » by lakerz12 » Tue Oct 1, 2019 6:03 pm

OP: "this isn't a troll post"

Also OP: "I'd honestly take Jrue Holiday over LeBron right now."

What does "Why Should the NBA Be Scared of the Lakers" even mean? That's such a subjective, basically meaningless phrase and question. No team should be afraid of another team.

The question should be more like "Why do the Lakers have a legitimate chance to advance in the Playoffs?" and maybe we could have a discussion.

You're just looking at the team with a glass half empty perspective and making a bunch of negative assumptions. We can do that for every team.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#75 » by thebigbird » Tue Oct 1, 2019 6:05 pm

nikster wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:They have a lot of players that have made defensive teams like the 2019 Raptors. Kuzma gives similar scoring production to Pippen. LeBron and Davis can give similar offensive production to Jordan. If this team is healthy then I have them as favorites over the Clippers to win the championship.

Wow...not sure if that’s worse than the Lebron-Jrue comparison

Surprisingly it's actually true. Kuzma averages 17.3 ppg on 54.8% TS. Pippen with the Bulls averaged 17.7 ppg on 53.9% TS.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#76 » by Official » Tue Oct 1, 2019 6:10 pm

Those who doubt the Lakers are those who know nothing about AD. And most people don't even know how AD scores or plays defense - they just look at box score stats. There is a reason people were proclaiming him as the next best player in the NBA going into last season.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#77 » by The High Cyde » Tue Oct 1, 2019 6:12 pm

LeBron + AD + shooters who can defend is a problem for the rest of the league. Any given night you're gonna have AD putting up hilarious numbers with LeBron giving you his usual 27/7/7 and arguably the best BBIQ in the league.

Do people think AD is just a roll man? The man has a ridiculous multi-faceted offensive game from the rim to the 3, along with defense that rivals some of the leagues best. He's a monster who is HUNGRY. There are definitely times when AD looked like he was playing with kids on the court.

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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#78 » by Jiminy Glick » Tue Oct 1, 2019 6:18 pm

nikster wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:They have a lot of players that have made defensive teams like the 2019 Raptors. Kuzma gives similar scoring production to Pippen. LeBron and Davis can give similar offensive production to Jordan. If this team is healthy then I have them as favorites over the Clippers to win the championship.

Wow...not sure if that’s worse than the Lebron-Jrue comparison


It's statistics, just look at the stats. Though who knows what his scoring numbers will be this season with LeBron and Davis on the team. He doesn't fit on the team though in my opinion.

thebigbird wrote:
nikster wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:They have a lot of players that have made defensive teams like the 2019 Raptors. Kuzma gives similar scoring production to Pippen. LeBron and Davis can give similar offensive production to Jordan. If this team is healthy then I have them as favorites over the Clippers to win the championship.

Wow...not sure if that’s worse than the Lebron-Jrue comparison

Surprisingly it's actually true. Kuzma averages 17.3 ppg on 54.8% TS. Pippen with the Bulls averaged 17.7 ppg on 53.9% TS.


Yeah I am not really sure what his argument is there.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#79 » by Ainosterhaspie » Tue Oct 1, 2019 6:20 pm

Danny Green is an elite role player and a perfect two guard next to LeBron.

--

Avery Bradley has played high-level defense at times in the past. He is still in his prime age. He has lost a bunch of weight so he should be quicker and more able to return to that high-level defensive form. The Lakers have a defensive-minded coach.

--

With Bradley and Green the Lakers have quality perimeter defense. But they also have great players backing them up in Lebron, Davis, Howard, and McGee. If they focus on defense and those guys lock-in in the playoffs that is going to be a very difficult team to score against.

LeBron is no longer the high energy elite defender he once was, but he is still smart, with good instincts and size. Playing next to other good defenders with good support behind him should allow him to see a defensive resurgence. This is not because he suddenly becoming a better defender, but because good defense breeds further good defense.

--

Big men generally need someone to be very good at running the offense. You can't just throw it in to them the whole time and expect a high-level offense. Someone needs to be able to set them up but also to be able to ensure points are being produced when plays are not going through them. Davis has not had a high-level playmaker who can generate a high volume of points either personally or for the other players on the team. James can do that and should really unlock Davis's full potential. Think Kareem and Magic/Oscar, Shaq and Kobe/Wade.

--

In the playoffs teams do not go as deep into the bench. A 7 to 8 man rotation can be enough to get a team to a title. Being able to go deep into the bench to the 9th 10th and 11th man is nice but not a necessity. Those guys just need to be available in limited situations where their strengths can be used without their weaknesses being exploited too badly.

A rotation of Howard, McGee, Davis, James, Kuzma, Green and Bradley is a good starting point for a solid playoff roster. With those guys eating up the bulk of the minutes the Lakers will be a difficult team to contend with.

Size is starting to get back in fashion. Teams like the Raptors and Sixers are difficult to contend with because of their size. The Lakers will present similar problems for other teams. A lineup such as Green/Kuzma/James/Davis/McGee will make it difficult for teams to force the issue with small ball. That lineup can switch everything on the perimeter and will be difficult to score on inside because there are so many big guys in it.

If necessary the Lakers can go small as well and still be a very dangerous looking team. In fact their small lineup really doesn't need to be that small. Something like Bradley/Green/James/Kuzma/Davis could be their small ball lineup which would still have the potential to punish teams inside with their size.

It will be difficult to create meaningful matchup advantages against the Lakers. Their roster has plenty of flexibility for them to contend with teams that are trying to play big or teams that are trying to play small. They should often be able to be the team that forces others to adapt to them rather than the other way around.

--

The shortcomings of Bosh and Love have people underestimating the potential of the James/Davis pairing. Davis won't be a third option like those guys were. He will be a second option and often a first option. Davis is a vastly superior defender compared to Love and is a much better roll man than either one of those guys.

LeBron/Davis pick and rolls will be very difficult to defend especially if surrounded by reasonably competent floor spacers. Bradley, Caruso, Cook, Green and Dudley are all guys who may not be terrifying from three, but you can't exactly leave them wide open at the line either. Is Kuzma the 30% guy from last season or the 37% guy the year before. Even if he just splits the difference, it's enough to require guys to pay attention to him.

That's a lot of guys to open up rim attacks for Davis and James. They don't all need to be hitting at high percentages either. As long as two or three of them do, the Lakers will be a really tough team to stop offensively.

--

The Lakers will be able to run out elite defensive lineups, elite offensive lineups, big lineups, small lineups and balanced lineups. Their ability to play many ways will mean they cause matchup problems for most teams.

Not only that, the biggest problem for Davis teams has been that they fall apart when he's not on the floor. Same for James teams. With those two guys on the team, one can be on the floor all the time and mitigate that problem. They should be a terror when playing together.
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Re: Why Should The NBA Be Scared of the Lakers 

Post#80 » by nikster » Tue Oct 1, 2019 6:20 pm

thebigbird wrote:
nikster wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:They have a lot of players that have made defensive teams like the 2019 Raptors. Kuzma gives similar scoring production to Pippen. LeBron and Davis can give similar offensive production to Jordan. If this team is healthy then I have them as favorites over the Clippers to win the championship.

Wow...not sure if that’s worse than the Lebron-Jrue comparison

Surprisingly it's actually true. Kuzma averages 17.3 ppg on 54.8% TS. Pippen with the Bulls averaged 17.7 ppg on 53.9% TS.

During the title contending years it was 20 ppg on 54.6 TS% and you have to consider that efficiency relative to league average. Consider Pippen is a more dynamic threat and vastly superior playmaker I think that difference is understated.

Edit: now looking at I realize I first read it as offensive production instead of scoring production

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