All Elite Wrestling - Discussion

[Stanford]

No, that AEW women's match was really bad but people will pump up anything AEW or Nyla Rose does. It was bad.

And the NXT women's match was really good.

The AEW women's roster looks super weak.

[Ruzious]

Anyone here gonna be at the show tonight? I'll be there!

I planned to, but work got in the way - so disappointed - I hope it's an absolute blast.

Where do u guys live? Im in gburg

Whoa, we might be neighbors - I'm also in gburg - on Girard St.

[jakecronus8]

Y’all on some dumb sh*t. The women’s match was the best part of the show.

[NinjaBro]

Y’all on some dumb sh*t. The women’s match was the best part of the show.

Agreed thought it was great, you could tell the whole crowd loved it too. They were so behind Riho and were holding their breath every time she got beaten down.

[NinjaBro]

Cons - Lack of character development and promos. It was mostly just a bunch of matches with no back stories. Most
people don't know who these low level Indy guys they have are and why we should care about them other then they
can do fancy moves. Who's the hottest act in the industry the last couple of months? It's the Fiend who is all character
and has had one squash match and we know Bray Wyatt isn't exactly Bret Hart or HBK in the ring. Also they still haven't
invested in theme music for the wrestlers having a good theme song does wonders for the wrestler and helps get them
over. The other con for me was the Nyla Rose match I changed the channel for that one. AEWs womens division is
extremely shallow and that match went on for to long. Save the long matches for PPVs and/or for talent that is over
who can keep the audience engaged for that long.

Everything you just said is all the reasons why I love AEW I appreciate that there's no 20 minute promos to start off the show ala Raw and Smackdown. There were promo packages on TNT's countdown show to let the viewers know who Sammy Guevara was. Cody sat down on a one on one interview with Tony Schavonie.

WWE being the only wrestling promotion on network TV really did a number on fans perception on what wrestling is. What AEW is trying to present is a completely different product than WWE Raw and Smackdown. They're catering to a very different fanbase, the people who have left WWE (me), and the people who haven't watched wresting at all since the attitude era.

You won't find too many gimmicks like the Fiend on AEW. The closest thing AEW has is the Dark Order gimmick , who fans are booing out of the building. They're really rejecting the gimmick. You also will find few if any promos being done on the show moving forward as well. AEW is trying to present a very different product and is not trying to be "WWE lite".
TNA Impact tried to be WWE lite and they're essentially a dead promotion right now.

My favorite wrestling promotion right now is NJPW which is the second biggest promotion in the world. They do virutally zero promos and it's all about the action. They are growing every year despite Vince Mcmahon signing their guys up and hoarding their talent. Meanwhile WWE's rating is dropping about 15% every year. They're losing fans left and right.

[Scott Hall]

Cons - Lack of character development and promos. It was mostly just a bunch of matches with no back stories. Most
people don't know who these low level Indy guys they have are and why we should care about them other then they
can do fancy moves. Who's the hottest act in the industry the last couple of months? It's the Fiend who is all character
and has had one squash match and we know Bray Wyatt isn't exactly Bret Hart or HBK in the ring. Also they still haven't
invested in theme music for the wrestlers having a good theme song does wonders for the wrestler and helps get them
over. The other con for me was the Nyla Rose match I changed the channel for that one. AEWs womens division is
extremely shallow and that match went on for to long. Save the long matches for PPVs and/or for talent that is over
who can keep the audience engaged for that long.

Everything you just said is all the reasons why I love AEW I appreciate that there's no 20 minute promos to start off the show ala Raw and Smackdown. There were promo packages on TNT's countdown show to let the viewers know who Sammy Guevara was. Cody sat down on a one on one interview with Tony Schavonie.

WWE being the only wrestling promotion on network TV really did a number on fans perception on what wrestling is. What AEW is trying to present is a completely different product than WWE Raw and Smackdown. They're catering to a very different fanbase, the people who have left WWE (me), and the people who haven't watched wresting at all since the attitude era.

You won't find too many gimmicks like the Fiend on AEW. The closest thing AEW has is the Dark Order gimmick , who fans are booing out of the building. They're really rejecting the gimmick. You also will find few if any promos being done on the show moving forward as well. AEW is trying to present a very different product and is not trying to be "WWE lite".
TNA Impact tried to be WWE lite and they're essentially a dead promotion right now.

My favorite wrestling promotion right now is NJPW which is the second biggest promotion in the world. They do virutally zero promos and it's all about the action. They are growing every year despite Vince Mcmahon signing their guys up and hoarding their talent. Meanwhile WWE's rating is dropping about 15% every year. They're losing fans left and right.

You're talking to me like I'm a noob that only watches WWE and doesn't know what's going on in the industry lol

Just because I like character development and stories doesn't mean I like 20 minute WWE style promos to start
a show all the time. You are probably right about the TNT specials introducing the characters I missed them but
didn't hear much about them.

I'm a longtime fan that never left and watches every promotion I possibly can. I want AEW to be successful but
that doesn't mean I'm not gonna be objective and critique it and be one of these AEW fanboys that thinks they're
cool and WWE sucks I'm way to old for that.

My 3 favorite brands in the last 5 years have been Lucha Underground, NJPW and NXT. I've been saying Vince McMahon
sucks and lost his touch for what like 15 years now?

As for TNA they tried to be different from WWE with the 6 sided ring and the X-Division where guys would climb
that rope like trapeze artists. They failed for a lot of reasons.

AEW is in the honeymoon stages right now they can do no wrong and people are feeling nostalgic about the Monday
Night wars and thats fine. But there is some glaring holes that need to be fixed eventually if they want to keep
firing on all cylinders. When I discuss it I want it to be with objective wrestling fans not over the top zealous AEW
Fanboys which is what twitter is like right now.

I like the NJPW formula but they have the cool factor and half the roster doesn't look like Indy cos-play wrestlers...

My point about The Fiend is this... the modern wrestling fan think a good wrestler is about how good he is strictly
in the ring and how many moonsaults he can do. They don't factor in mic skills, look and character. Now it's all about
the Meltzer 5 star rating.

And who is the guy I've heard about the most in the industry the last few months? not Zack Sabre Jr, not Jay White,
not Okada, not Marty Scrull, not Matt Taven, not Brian Cage, not Michael Elgin, not Will Ospreay, not Kenny Omega,
not the Young Bucks, not Seth Rollins, not AJ Styles, not Cedric Alexander, not Ricochet, not Daniel Bryan...

It's the Fiend Bray Wyatt a character that's had 1 match and a guy in Bray Wyatt that's had 1 match in what 2 years?
I'm not even really a big fan of him or the character but I can't deny everywhere I go on the net people talk the
most about him.

The best formula I've ever seen for wrestling is ECW and not just because of the violence. I don't want AEW to be strictly
one dimensional Indy style spotfest Meltzer style wrestling. I know there is a market for it but it's not big and what I want
is for all the lost fans to comeback and what they need to do is use the successful formula.

[LLJ]

Whatever it is, WWE's model hasn't been working for years so I can see the appetite for something different. Having said that, AEW still needs to hammer out some kinks, I'm not a fan of WWE-type interference antics in abundance. I am still hoping for a Western version of NJPW that's english friendly. Something that's treated like a sport, yet still has the memorable enough characters to give it the pro wrestling quirk (Naito and Okada are clearly pro wrestling "characters" that still feel like they could be sports athletes) People don't want to see WWE-except-not-booked-by-Vince, which is what TNA was. The women's division still needs more starpower (if they could nab Tessa or someone popular but lesser used in the WWE like Asuka, it would go a long way into boosting interest).

[Scott Hall]

If you do the NJPW formula (which is what I want to see) and present it like a sport do it properly. I want to see Kenny
Omega as the cleaner not dressing up as some dorky Street Fighter character.

Jungle Boy, the Librarians, Orange Cassiday, Dark Order, Joey Janela, Sammy Guerrera, Britt Baker etc? These don't look
like real athletes they look like low level indy wrestlers with corny gimmicks.

As for the last AEW PPV what was the thing people were talking the most about after? It wasn't that crazy Ladder Match
between the Young Bucks and the Lucha Bros it was Jerichos promo about the bubbly.

[Stanford]

New Japan USA would be lame as hell. They should find their own formula. Ideally, it's something similar to what they did at All In, with a mixture of big match NJPW style, flippy PWG stuff and novelty indy stuff. If they can have all of that come together as a cohesive brand, they're really going to have something.

[LLJ]

New Japan USA would be lame as hell. They should find their own formula. Ideally, it's something similar to what they did at All In, with a mixture of big match NJPW style, flippy PWG stuff and novelty indy stuff. If they can have all of that come together as a cohesive brand, they're really going to have something.

WWE-lite would be even lamer as hell. I mean, last night was pretty standard WWE-style match interferences for a bunch of them.

Nobody wants to watch WWE-lite.

And when you say mixture, it almost sounds like you're saying it should be everything and nothing. And that never works. They need to pick an identity and go with it. Going all over the place like you listed isn't the way to build an audience.

[Stanford]

WWE-lite would be even lamer as hell.

I don't want that.

And when you say mixture, it almost sounds like you're saying it should be everything and nothing.

If they can have all of that come together as a cohesive brand, they're really going to have something.

[LLJ]

WWE-lite would be even lamer as hell.

I don't want that.

And when you say mixture, it almost sounds like you're saying it should be everything and nothing.

If they can have all of that come together as a cohesive brand, they're really going to have something.

I just think that's a contradiction. Those are very distinctive elements you listed, each enough to base entire promotions on. Saying "Mix these things together into a cohesive brand" is not something that is easy to do. Even the WWE, which has tried to be "everything and nothing" at times, always eventually defaults into something more their own "formula", which is A LOT of talking, emphasis on match endings that further "storylines", and lots of inconclusive match finishes on TV.

They either want to be everything the WWE is not, which is more of a "real sports" type presentation, or they are an indie-type brand, or they are WWE-main roster lite. NXT for example is basically an indie-wrestling brand dressed up with higher production values and it sticks to that without much deviation.

[Stanford]

It's not a contradiction. NXT TV has been combining those styles successfully since the beginning. Nothing about NXT seems disparate or confused. Adam Rose and Samoa Joe existed on the same TV show and it worked.

WWE TV is bad, in part, because it's a mono-style. Variety would improve their TV, just like the addition of cruisers improved Nitro in the 90s.

NXT for example is basically an indie-wrestling brand

What is indie-wrestling? Indie like PWG? Indie like Chikara? Indie like CZW? Those styles couldn't be more different. Which one is NXT?

[Dr Positivity]

Cody vs Sammy was a good match but the psychology is weird. You've got the big, bleach blonde douche looking guy with help who calls himself the American Nightmare as the babyface, and his twink looking opponent as the heel. Still, I think Cody vs Jericho is a good main event for their first PPV

Brandi is the hottest black chick I've ever seen

[NinjaBro]

Spoiler:

Cons - Lack of character development and promos. It was mostly just a bunch of matches with no back stories. Most
people don't know who these low level Indy guys they have are and why we should care about them other then they
can do fancy moves. Who's the hottest act in the industry the last couple of months? It's the Fiend who is all character
and has had one squash match and we know Bray Wyatt isn't exactly Bret Hart or HBK in the ring. Also they still haven't
invested in theme music for the wrestlers having a good theme song does wonders for the wrestler and helps get them
over. The other con for me was the Nyla Rose match I changed the channel for that one. AEWs womens division is
extremely shallow and that match went on for to long. Save the long matches for PPVs and/or for talent that is over
who can keep the audience engaged for that long.

Everything you just said is all the reasons why I love AEW I appreciate that there's no 20 minute promos to start off the show ala Raw and Smackdown. There were promo packages on TNT's countdown show to let the viewers know who Sammy Guevara was. Cody sat down on a one on one interview with Tony Schavonie.

WWE being the only wrestling promotion on network TV really did a number on fans perception on what wrestling is. What AEW is trying to present is a completely different product than WWE Raw and Smackdown. They're catering to a very different fanbase, the people who have left WWE (me), and the people who haven't watched wresting at all since the attitude era.

You won't find too many gimmicks like the Fiend on AEW. The closest thing AEW has is the Dark Order gimmick , who fans are booing out of the building. They're really rejecting the gimmick. You also will find few if any promos being done on the show moving forward as well. AEW is trying to present a very different product and is not trying to be "WWE lite".
TNA Impact tried to be WWE lite and they're essentially a dead promotion right now.

My favorite wrestling promotion right now is NJPW which is the second biggest promotion in the world. They do virutally zero promos and it's all about the action. They are growing every year despite Vince Mcmahon signing their guys up and hoarding their talent. Meanwhile WWE's rating is dropping about 15% every year. They're losing fans left and right.

You're talking to me like I'm a noob that only watches WWE and doesn't know what's going on in the industry lol

Just because I like character development and stories doesn't mean I like 20 minute WWE style promos to start
a show all the time. You are probably right about the TNT specials introducing the characters I missed them but
didn't hear much about them.

I'm a longtime fan that never left and watches every promotion I possibly can. I want AEW to be successful but
that doesn't mean I'm not gonna be objective and critique it and be one of these AEW fanboys that thinks they're
cool and WWE sucks I'm way to old for that.

My 3 favorite brands in the last 5 years have been Lucha Underground, NJPW and NXT. I've been saying Vince McMahon
sucks and lost his touch for what like 15 years now?

As for TNA they tried to be different from WWE with the 6 sided ring and the X-Division where guys would climb
that rope like trapeze artists. They failed for a lot of reasons.

AEW is in the honeymoon stages right now they can do no wrong and people are feeling nostalgic about the Monday
Night wars and thats fine. But there is some glaring holes that need to be fixed eventually if they want to keep
firing on all cylinders. When I discuss it I want it to be with objective wrestling fans not over the top zealous AEW
Fanboys which is what twitter is like right now.

I like the NJPW formula but they have the cool factor and half the roster doesn't look like Indy cos-play wrestlers...

My point about The Fiend is this... the modern wrestling fan think a good wrestler is about how good he is strictly
in the ring and how many moonsaults he can do. They don't factor in mic skills, look and character. Now it's all about
the Meltzer 5 star rating.

And who is the guy I've heard about the most in the industry the last few months? not Zack Sabre Jr, not Jay White,
not Okada, not Marty Scrull, not Matt Taven, not Brian Cage, not Michael Elgin, not Will Ospreay, not Kenny Omega,
not the Young Bucks, not Seth Rollins, not AJ Styles, not Cedric Alexander, not Ricochet, not Daniel Bryan...

It's the Fiend Bray Wyatt a character that's had 1 match and a guy in Bray Wyatt that's had 1 match in what 2 years?
I'm not even really a big fan of him or the character but I can't deny everywhere I go on the net people talk the
most about him.

The best formula I've ever seen for wrestling is ECW and not just because of the violence. I don't want AEW to be strictly
one dimensional Indy style spotfest Meltzer style wrestling. I know there is a market for it but it's not big and what I want
is for all the lost fans to comeback and what they need to do is use the successful formula.

Oh believe me, I'm very critical of AEW. They're far from perfect. If I have to see Orange Cassidy wrestle a whole match on TNT with his hands in his pockets I'm going to blow a gasket. I don't want to see someone take a staple gun to the head or a Joey Ryan dick flip. Thankfully Tony Khan says we won't be seeing that on television and that he's not a fan of it.

You say one of your favorite promotions in the last 5 years is NJPW. Yet I find it curious that you would want to see more promos and character gimmicks like the Fiend on AEW. NJPW has virtually no promos and their angles and character development take literally months to play out. It moves at a snail's pace, you wouldn't know who the wrestlers are if you didn't follow them from show to show.
AEW only has 1 show so far on network TV. I respectfully disagree that you absolutely must need those things for them to succeed and I appreciate that they are letting things play out slowly than hit you in the head with it every week.

The WWE model does not work, they're having trouble drawing 2500 fans to their shows on Raw and Smackdown. Some of the pictures of the empty arenas opposite the hard cam that people are tweeting out is downright scary. WWE got lucky they got bailed out by Fox needing programming and the changing landscape of television to give them a big contract.

As far as the Fiend, he's not as big as you think he is. If he was WWE would be drawing big in the ratings and be selling out their arenas. They're not. He's something that's new and fresh for the WWE and people talk about him.

[NinjaBro]

Whatever it is, WWE's model hasn't been working for years so I can see the appetite for something different. Having said that, AEW still needs to hammer out some kinks, I'm not a fan of WWE-type interference antics in abundance. I am still hoping for a Western version of NJPW that's english friendly. Something that's treated like a sport, yet still has the memorable enough characters to give it the pro wrestling quirk (Naito and Okada are clearly pro wrestling "characters" that still feel like they could be sports athletes) People don't want to see WWE-except-not-booked-by-Vince, which is what TNA was. The women's division still needs more starpower (if they could nab Tessa or someone popular but lesser used in the WWE like Asuka, it would go a long way into boosting interest).

I would love it if AEW gets Hana Kimura. She's a godamn SUPERSTAR.

[Scott Hall]

Spoiler:

Everything you just said is all the reasons why I love AEW I appreciate that there's no 20 minute promos to start off the show ala Raw and Smackdown. There were promo packages on TNT's countdown show to let the viewers know who Sammy Guevara was. Cody sat down on a one on one interview with Tony Schavonie.

WWE being the only wrestling promotion on network TV really did a number on fans perception on what wrestling is. What AEW is trying to present is a completely different product than WWE Raw and Smackdown. They're catering to a very different fanbase, the people who have left WWE (me), and the people who haven't watched wresting at all since the attitude era.

You won't find too many gimmicks like the Fiend on AEW. The closest thing AEW has is the Dark Order gimmick , who fans are booing out of the building. They're really rejecting the gimmick. You also will find few if any promos being done on the show moving forward as well. AEW is trying to present a very different product and is not trying to be "WWE lite".
TNA Impact tried to be WWE lite and they're essentially a dead promotion right now.

My favorite wrestling promotion right now is NJPW which is the second biggest promotion in the world. They do virutally zero promos and it's all about the action. They are growing every year despite Vince Mcmahon signing their guys up and hoarding their talent. Meanwhile WWE's rating is dropping about 15% every year. They're losing fans left and right.

You're talking to me like I'm a noob that only watches WWE and doesn't know what's going on in the industry lol

Just because I like character development and stories doesn't mean I like 20 minute WWE style promos to start
a show all the time. You are probably right about the TNT specials introducing the characters I missed them but
didn't hear much about them.

I'm a longtime fan that never left and watches every promotion I possibly can. I want AEW to be successful but
that doesn't mean I'm not gonna be objective and critique it and be one of these AEW fanboys that thinks they're
cool and WWE sucks I'm way to old for that.

My 3 favorite brands in the last 5 years have been Lucha Underground, NJPW and NXT. I've been saying Vince McMahon
sucks and lost his touch for what like 15 years now?

As for TNA they tried to be different from WWE with the 6 sided ring and the X-Division where guys would climb
that rope like trapeze artists. They failed for a lot of reasons.

AEW is in the honeymoon stages right now they can do no wrong and people are feeling nostalgic about the Monday
Night wars and thats fine. But there is some glaring holes that need to be fixed eventually if they want to keep
firing on all cylinders. When I discuss it I want it to be with objective wrestling fans not over the top zealous AEW
Fanboys which is what twitter is like right now.

I like the NJPW formula but they have the cool factor and half the roster doesn't look like Indy cos-play wrestlers...

My point about The Fiend is this... the modern wrestling fan think a good wrestler is about how good he is strictly
in the ring and how many moonsaults he can do. They don't factor in mic skills, look and character. Now it's all about
the Meltzer 5 star rating.

And who is the guy I've heard about the most in the industry the last few months? not Zack Sabre Jr, not Jay White,
not Okada, not Marty Scrull, not Matt Taven, not Brian Cage, not Michael Elgin, not Will Ospreay, not Kenny Omega,
not the Young Bucks, not Seth Rollins, not AJ Styles, not Cedric Alexander, not Ricochet, not Daniel Bryan...

It's the Fiend Bray Wyatt a character that's had 1 match and a guy in Bray Wyatt that's had 1 match in what 2 years?
I'm not even really a big fan of him or the character but I can't deny everywhere I go on the net people talk the
most about him.

The best formula I've ever seen for wrestling is ECW and not just because of the violence. I don't want AEW to be strictly
one dimensional Indy style spotfest Meltzer style wrestling. I know there is a market for it but it's not big and what I want
is for all the lost fans to comeback and what they need to do is use the successful formula.

Oh believe me, I'm very critical of AEW. They're far from perfect. If I have to see Orange Cassidy wrestle a whole match on TNT with his hands in his pockets I'm going to blow a gasket. I don't want to see someone take a staple gun to the head or a Joey Ryan dick flip. Thankfully Tony Khan says we won't be seeing that on television and that he's not a fan of it.

You say one of your favorite promotions in the last 5 years is NJPW. Yet I find it curious that you would want to see more promos and character gimmicks like the Fiend on AEW. NJPW has virtually no promos and their angles and character development take literally months to play out. It moves at a snail's pace, you wouldn't know who the wrestlers are if you didn't follow them from show to show.
AEW only has 1 show so far on network TV. I respectfully disagree that you absolutely must need those things for them to succeed and I appreciate that they are letting things play out slowly than hit you in the head with it every week.

The WWE model does not work, they're having trouble drawing 2500 fans to their shows on Raw and Smackdown. Some of the pictures of the empty arenas opposite the hard cam that people are tweeting out is downright scary. WWE got lucky they got bailed out by Fox needing programming and the changing landscape of television to give them a big contract.

As far as the Fiend, he's not as big as you think he is. If he was WWE would be drawing big in the ratings and be selling out their arenas. It's not. He's something that's new and fresh for the WWE and people talk about him.

I'm not sure why you think I'm advocating for the WWE model if you followed this board I've been very critical about it
with a few other users for ages now. Just because I want character development and promos doesn't mean I want it done
like the WWE does it. Still character development is Television 101 and Dynamite is still a television show and the announcers
should still be filling us in but Jim Ross doesn't seem to know who these guys are.

I also didn't say I want more characters like the Fiend I'm not usually fans of those types of gimmicks I'm just saying
todays wrestling fan seems to judge wrestlers by how cool their moveset is yet all I've heard the last few months is about
Bray Wyatt the Fiend who's had one squash match which tells me as a unbiased observer that characters still matter
and sell.

The most over thing in Japan the last several years has been the Bullet Club which is an nWo knock off. Naito and Okada
and Tanahashi are good in ring wrestlers with great pacing and are good storytellers but that's about it. Naito looks like a
dork with his haircut, Okada looks like a generic Japanese pretty boy and Tanahasi the "Japanese John Cena" comes across
as cheesy doing the air guitar. It's hard to judge them on mic skills and promo ability because of the language barrier
but there is sub-tittles and I don't find what they say to be anything special. They've also wrestled in ROH and I find
them to be one dimensional as just good workers.

Mauro Ranallo and Josh Barnett used to do a fantastic job telling viewers about the characters and the back stories.
The Bullet Club would do in ring promos and the other wrestlers would do Boxing/UFC/Sports style press conferences
after the matches (with the cheesy ice packs all the time lol)

For the rest... I know... I was at the tapings during SummerSlam weekend and did my usual trick of buying the cheapest
nosebleeds and sitting in those empty hard cam seats.

Last year one of my favorite topics on this board was the Pete Dunne vs. Velveteen Dream debate a guy who's strictly
a worker with great facial reactions vs. a great character that's also good in the ring.

[Scott Hall]

WWE sent Wrestling Inc. the following statement regarding the AEW Dynamite premiere, congratulating the organization for a successful debut while noting "this is a marathon, not a one-night sprint":

"Congratulations to AEW on a successful premiere. The real winners of last night's head-to-head telecasts of NXT on USA Network and AEW on TNT are the fans, who can expect Wednesday nights to be a competitive and wild ride as this is a marathon, not a one-night sprint."

AEW won surprised WWE is commenting about it already I think they're just glad to have competition and have
people talking about wrestling.

[NinjaBro]

WWE sent Wrestling Inc. the following statement regarding the AEW Dynamite premiere, congratulating the organization for a successful debut while noting "this is a marathon, not a one-night sprint":

"Congratulations to AEW on a successful premiere. The real winners of last night's head-to-head telecasts of NXT on USA Network and AEW on TNT are the fans, who can expect Wednesday nights to be a competitive and wild ride as this is a marathon, not a one-night sprint."

AEW won surprised WWE is commenting about it already I think they're just glad to have competition and have
people talking about wrestling.

WWE must've gotten the early preliminary numbers of the ratings so far. It's not like them to acknowledge their competition like this. I want both companies to do well. Having competition would only make WWE better and for the industry overall.

[NinjaBro]

Some early estimates are coming out. Looks like AEW did between 1.5 to 1.7 million viewers for the live show and 650K for the replay. This is a HUGE success Finals numbers not out yet but looks like it's going to be a strong rating.