Frank Thread 3: FIBA Frank Aftermath

[robillionaire]

So our first preseason game is monday seems like they'd have to release the numbers by then right, or is it before the start of the regular season

[MaseInYourFace]

people make too much of what they perceive as frank's timid nature , the facts pretty much say its overstated , his usage is 16.6 , not exactly terrified to shoot the ball he averaged 11.2 shots per 36 minutes , trier for comparison's sake avg. 12.8 shots per 36 minutes

frank's problem as i said before is he doesn't make enough of them ....trier is supposed to be a hired gun but when he isn't iso'ing he's more invisible than frank because he doesn't move off the ball...at least frank makes his impact on defense or by consistently setting others up.

most players get more accurate as they progress through their careers , significantly fewer change their nature or style of play to a large degree , isolation players by and large are getting phased out the league save for a few , if trier cant be a more consistent instant offense or be much better at availing himself to get shots by other means , he's not an nba player , lets not kid ourselves here , the team went 17-65 and allonzo didn't do much to change that.

It is more style of play than raw number of shots taken.

and trier's style isn't sustainable ...frank's is

teams don't need offensive players who don't take shots or aren't offensively aggressive

he's a pass 1st point guard vs a shoot 1st player and their difference in usage is less than 5%(21.5 to 16.6 )

shots per 36 minutes difference is 1.6

and the truth is most players who are so bad at stuff never actually become good at it , the simple truth is 78.5 % of the time when trier isn't dominating the ball he's probably a net negative on offense because he doesn't avail himself as a pressure valve for whomever does have it ...nor does he shoot enough to have teams scheme for him with or without the ball.

Except Trier you can argue shot too little and frank possibly shot too much considering their shooting percentages. Big difference.

[DOT]

So our first preseason game is monday seems like they'd have to release the numbers by then right, or is it before the start of the regular season

End of training camp I thought

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[j4remi]

Could be great news, could be bad news too. It's only two days, could be small sample size and Frank being fresh off competitive play. But whatever, I like to hear it.

knicks.clique
After today’s practice while talking to the media Kevin Knox singled out Frank Ntilikina as one of the best players in camp thus far. Ntilikina has been hitting a lot of threes after working on it heavily this summer.

[NYKAL]

According to Knox, Frank has been the best player in Camp!!! Also said he's been draining the 3 ball

[MadGrinch]

It is more style of play than raw number of shots taken.

and trier's style isn't sustainable ...frank's is

teams don't need offensive players who don't take shots or aren't offensively aggressive

he's a pass 1st point guard vs a shoot 1st player and their difference in usage is less than 5%(21.5 to 16.6 )

shots per 36 minutes difference is 1.6

and the truth is most players who are so bad at stuff never actually become good at it , the simple truth is 78.5 % of the time when trier isn't dominating the ball he's probably a net negative on offense because he doesn't avail himself as a pressure valve for whomever does have it ...nor does he shoot enough to have teams scheme for him with or without the ball.

Except Trier you can argue shot too little and frank possibly shot too much considering their shooting percentages. Big difference.

Yes big difference but not the way you mean it

All the other offensive guards on the team (hardaway jr Burke, mudiay dsjr ) avg at least 16.6 shots per 36 and had a usage of at least 25.6 compared to trier’s 12.8 per 36 and usage of 21.5

It’s not frank shooting too much , ntilikina actually gets a lot of flack for not being aggressive enough despite his numbers.(even you have mentioned it)

It’s trier when he is not isolating on offense is doing virtually nothing and it’s reflected in his stats as well as when you watch the games , there are games in which he takes to iso’ing repeatedly , most player who break plays like that for individual offense usage is usually in the 30s

He shoots the fewest 3s among the guards who actually play in an offense Fizdale specifically is trying to space the floor by getting his players to shoot more 3s

Trier needs to change the way he plays more than anyone else

[MaseInYourFace]

and trier's style isn't sustainable ...frank's is

teams don't need offensive players who don't take shots or aren't offensively aggressive

he's a pass 1st point guard vs a shoot 1st player and their difference in usage is less than 5%(21.5 to 16.6 )

shots per 36 minutes difference is 1.6

and the truth is most players who are so bad at stuff never actually become good at it , the simple truth is 78.5 % of the time when trier isn't dominating the ball he's probably a net negative on offense because he doesn't avail himself as a pressure valve for whomever does have it ...nor does he shoot enough to have teams scheme for him with or without the ball.

Except Trier you can argue shot too little and frank possibly shot too much considering their shooting percentages. Big difference.

Yes big difference but not the way you mean it

All the other offensive guards on the team (hardaway jr Burke, mudiay dsjr ) avg at least 16.6 shots per 36 and had a usage of at least 25.6 compared to trier’s 12.8 per 36 and usage of 21.5

It’s not frank shooting too much , ntilikina actually gets a lot of flack for not being aggressive enough despite his numbers.(even you have mentioned it)

It’s trier when he is not isolating on offense is doing virtually nothing and it’s reflected in his stats as well as when you watch the games , there are games in which he takes to iso’ing repeatedly , most player who break plays like that for individual offense usage is usually in the 30s

He shoots the fewest 3s among the guards who actually play in an offense Fizdale specifically is trying to space the floor by getting his players to shoot more 3s

Trier needs to change the way he plays more than anyone else

He (Trier) just needs to shoot more catch and shoot threes. That isn’t a radical change especially considering he didn’t shoot the ball poorly.

[br7knicks]

Except Trier you can argue shot too little and frank possibly shot too much considering their shooting percentages. Big difference.

Yes big difference but not the way you mean it

All the other offensive guards on the team (hardaway jr Burke, mudiay dsjr ) avg at least 16.6 shots per 36 and had a usage of at least 25.6 compared to trier’s 12.8 per 36 and usage of 21.5

It’s not frank shooting too much , ntilikina actually gets a lot of flack for not being aggressive enough despite his numbers.(even you have mentioned it)

It’s trier when he is not isolating on offense is doing virtually nothing and it’s reflected in his stats as well as when you watch the games , there are games in which he takes to iso’ing repeatedly , most player who break plays like that for individual offense usage is usually in the 30s

He shoots the fewest 3s among the guards who actually play in an offense Fizdale specifically is trying to space the floor by getting his players to shoot more 3s

Trier needs to change the way he plays more than anyone else

He (Trier) just needs to shoot more catch and shoot threes. That isn’t a radical change especially considering he didn’t shoot the ball poorly.

i'm very anti-trier, as i don't want a repeat of the last decade, which his style of play mirrors.


but if he can stick to being a catch and shoot 3-PT shooter, off the bench, or inserted when it's needed, i'd be okay with him.

plus, being a consistent outside threat would open him up to attack the basket. he just needs to not be allowed to destroy the flow of offense, or dribble the ball down the court and not pass the ball at all, while taking a poor percentage 2-PT jumper

[MadGrinch]

He (Trier) just needs to shoot more catch and shoot threes. That isn’t a radical change especially considering he didn’t shoot the ball poorly.

changing from a player that is essentially stationary til someone gives him the ball ,to someone who actively moves without it to create opportunities for himself and his teammates is a very big change .

one that the knicks management takes seriously , its not a coincidence that trier's position is the one that has been added to the most , barrett, ellington and bullock.

reggie bullock avg 7.5 3 point attempts per 36 minutes last season
ellington 10.3 per 36
not to mention dotson who was already on the roster at 6.1

compare that to trier's 3.3 , his summer assignment was basically to play more like them.

if trier can't or wont change significantly they already stocked the roster with players that will

[BLACKFEET 2010]

According to Knox, Frank has been the best player in Camp!!! Also said he's been draining the 3 ball

He didn’t say that man.
He said he’s stood out but he never said anything about him being the best.
Exaggerate much?

[robillionaire]

Trier is never going to be a catch and shoot 3 point shooter he is an iso slasher that’s his game if you need a guy to stand in the corner and hit a 3 you could probably do a lot better and probably on defense too

[Zenzibar]

According to Knox, Frank has been the best player in Camp!!! Also said he's been draining the 3 ball

He didn’t say that man.
He said he’s stood out but he never said anything about him being the best.
Exaggerate much?

The quote was that Knox said Frank was one of the best, not the best.
But Knox didnt mention any other guard per se.

Hopefully this means that Frank is more ready to take the starting point guard position. More ready than the other young guards.

[GONYK]

Here is a thread outlining the ways that Frank's offensive improvement manifested itself, even when his shot wasn't falling

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[CharlesOakley]

Here is a thread outlining the ways that Frank's offensive improvement manifested itself, even when his shot wasn't falling

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I keep telling my cat (because no one else will listen) that Frank came into the league with incredible physical tools, a strong work ethic, a willingness to subjugate his game for the team, and a high basketball IQ. I always thought it was only a matter of time.

Someday our coach will see it. I'm ready to roll with Frank for 10 games and then re-evaluate. I bet with some consistency we start seeing the ball go in.

[blanko]

Here is a thread outlining the ways that Frank's offensive improvement manifested itself, even when his shot wasn't falling

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I keep telling my cat (because no one else will listen) that Frank came into the league with incredible physical tools, a strong work ethic, a willingness to subjugate his game for the team, and a high basketball IQ. I always thought it was only a matter of time.

Someday our coach will see it. I'm ready to roll with Frank for 10 games and then re-evaluate. I bet with some consistency we start seeing the ball go in.

Its not like frank was playing like rondo... he needs to hit 3s in the modern nba.
If his work ethic is as good as you say the guy should be hitting 3s in the mid 30%. But he isnt. I hope he does, because a frank that is an above avg shooter will compliment knox and barret perfectly.
So far he hasnt, he cant break down defenses and he cant hit the 3.

I really thought frank would be what shai gilgeous alexander is.... sadly it didnt happen.

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[thebuzzardman]

And here we go....

[GONYK]

SB Nation wrote a really good article about Frank, the work he put in during the summer, and how playing for the French national team helped him regain his confidence.

It is a really good read. The article can be found here: https://www.sbnation.com/2019/11/1/20941254/frank-ntilikina-knicks

Some notable parts:

But while Ntilikina progressed in many respects, he was the subject of trade speculation during the 2019 offseason, his confidence potentially falling into tatters. Because of his lingering injury, he wasn’t sure how much he could trust his body, which impacted his on-court movements and shooting.

That lack of confidence was especially jarring to those who have watched Ntilikina since he was a kid, like broadcast journalist George Eddy, France’s television voice of the NBA for the past 35 years. Eddy, like many, views Ntilikina’s time in New York so far as a disaster.

“[Frank is] very intelligent, and it’s easy to see why Phil Jackson liked him and drafted him,” Eddy says. “They’ve played his mind in terms of playing time and the way they’ve used him.

“They didn’t do it on purpose, but everything they were doing was going towards ruining his confidence in himself and impeding his progress as an NBA player.”

But some things remained the same, notably how much the two trusted each other. For Eddy, a longtime observer, the reunion of coach and player came at the right time.

“Collet is a good psychologist with [Ntilikina],” Eddy says. “He’s known him since he was very young, so he knows what buttons to push.”

From the first days of training camp, Collet used that long-held relationship to coax ever-more out of his youngest “basketball son.”

“[Frank] always tries to do what you expect him to do,” Collet explains. “But I know him very well, so I pushed him. I often told him, ‘Do more, and if you do too much, I will tell you.’”

With Collet, Ntilikina could finally test his limits.

NBA circles are tight, but because of Ntilikina’s limited court time with the Knicks, Collet thought Ntilikina’s game would be relatively unknown to his teammates. Collet was surprised by how much veterans like Gobert lobbied for Ntilikina.

“Rudy very often came to me, saying that for the defense we want to do Frank will be perfect because he can share the ball very easily,” Collet says. “The way they were trusting him, this was good, for I think it helped him to become what he became with us.”

The fact that France’s extended basketball family opened its arms to him — from Collet and teammates, to Gautier, Eddy and others — didn’t escape Ntilikina.

“You fear less,” Ntilikina says. “You are not worrying about making mistakes — you make mistakes, but you have the confidence to make plays and just play basketball and do what you can do. It helps you more to play freely.

“It is a good feeling and I was really thankful, for I felt it a lot.”

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[Fat Kat]

Watch on YouTube

[NYKat]

Frank worked out with Tyler Relph this summer, if you watch his dribble moves he’s been incorporating some of the stuff in his dribble drives to the rim

Watch on YouTube