Steph Top 10 All Time - According to Bleacher report

[WarriorGM]

Hakeem never faced Jordan in the playoffs. Curry faced previous MVP Durant and succeeding MVP Westbrook simultaneously.

Curry's 2015 opponents could also be described as follows:

1st round Anthony Davis (2015 1st Team All-NBA)
2nd round Marc Gasol (2015 1st Team All-NBA)
3rd round James Harden (2015 1st Team All-NBA)
Finals LeBron James (2015 1st Team All-NBA)

That was the only time in history that a member of the All NBA 1st team went through every other member of the All NBA 1st team en route to a title...and it was in the notoriously more difficult Conference...

...but let’s keep up the narrative that 2015 was “lucky because the field was weak due to injuries.”

Want some historical context? The 1987 Lakers only faced one team with a winning record— the 42-40 Warriors in the 2nd round— before reaching the Finals.

Their path, and the paths of every other champion, was WAY more difficult than GSW’s in 2015, though.

Dude, this was 4 years ago. You cant rewrite history that fast. Every team the W's faced in 2015 had major injuries. That was not a difficult run; their finals opponent trotted out Matthew freakin Delladova as it's 2nd best player

Dominating an entire season from start to finish like the Warriors did in 2015 is never easy. We know LeBron has been able to get teams like his 2007 and 2018 Cavaliers to the finals out of the Eastern Conference as well. The 2015 version without Kyrie after game 1 (which the Warriors won) wasn't that much different. Are the 2007 Spurs criticized for being lucky to face LeBron?

[rtiff68]

Hakeem never faced Jordan in the playoffs. Curry faced previous MVP Durant and succeeding MVP Westbrook simultaneously.

Curry's 2015 opponents could also be described as follows:

1st round Anthony Davis (2015 1st Team All-NBA)
2nd round Marc Gasol (2015 1st Team All-NBA)
3rd round James Harden (2015 1st Team All-NBA)
Finals LeBron James (2015 1st Team All-NBA)

That was the only time in history that a member of the All NBA 1st team went through every other member of the All NBA 1st team en route to a title...and it was in the notoriously more difficult Conference...

...but let’s keep up the narrative that 2015 was “lucky because the field was weak due to injuries.”

Want some historical context? The 1987 Lakers only faced one team with a winning record— the 42-40 Warriors in the 2nd round— before reaching the Finals.

Their path, and the paths of every other champion, was WAY more difficult than GSW’s in 2015, though.

Dude, this was 4 years ago. You cant rewrite history that fast. Every team the W's faced in 2015 had major injuries. That was not a difficult run; their finals opponent trotted out Matthew freakin Delladova as it's 2nd best player

If you act like their 2015 road was anything less than “average” on the difficulty scale, then you’re the one rewriting history— either that, or you’re completely ignoring it.

I’m not pretending the GSW 2015 path was anything like the DAL 2011 path, I’m simply saying that it wasn’t the cake walk some people try to make it out to be when you view it in context historically.

I already brought up the example of the 1987 Lakers (considered by many to be their greatest team). Also keep in mind how woefully terrible the WC was in the ‘80’s, how awful the EC has been basically this whole millennium, and how GS plays in the WC of the 21st century— they didn’t get a sub .500 team in the 1st round or a 47 win team in the EC Finals in 2015, they got every member of the All NBA 1st team.

[XxIronChainzxX]

That was the only time in history that a member of the All NBA 1st team went through every other member of the All NBA 1st team en route to a title...and it was in the notoriously more difficult Conference...

...but let’s keep up the narrative that 2015 was “lucky because the field was weak due to injuries.”

Want some historical context? The 1987 Lakers only faced one team with a winning record— the 42-40 Warriors in the 2nd round— before reaching the Finals.

Their path, and the paths of every other champion, was WAY more difficult than GSW’s in 2015, though.

Dude, this was 4 years ago. You cant rewrite history that fast. Every team the W's faced in 2015 had major injuries. That was not a difficult run; their finals opponent trotted out Matthew freakin Delladova as it's 2nd best player

Dominating an entire season from start to finish like the Warriors did in 2015 is never easy. We know LeBron has been able to get teams like his 2007 and 2018 Cavaliers to the finals out of the Eastern Conference as well. The 2015 version without Kyrie after game 1 (which the Warriors won) wasn't that much different. Are the 2007 Spurs criticized for being lucky to face LeBron?

The Warriors didn't dominate 2015.

The 2007 Spurs don't get credit for the Finals, but for beating the West, including a 60-win Suns team. I think that was a full strength squad.

[XxIronChainzxX]

That was the only time in history that a member of the All NBA 1st team went through every other member of the All NBA 1st team en route to a title...and it was in the notoriously more difficult Conference...

...but let’s keep up the narrative that 2015 was “lucky because the field was weak due to injuries.”

Want some historical context? The 1987 Lakers only faced one team with a winning record— the 42-40 Warriors in the 2nd round— before reaching the Finals.

Their path, and the paths of every other champion, was WAY more difficult than GSW’s in 2015, though.

Dude, this was 4 years ago. You cant rewrite history that fast. Every team the W's faced in 2015 had major injuries. That was not a difficult run; their finals opponent trotted out Matthew freakin Delladova as it's 2nd best player

If you act like their 2015 road was anything less than “average” on the difficulty scale, then you’re the one rewriting history— either that, or you’re completely ignoring it.

I’m not pretending the GSW 2015 path was anything like the DAL 2011 path, I’m simply saying that it wasn’t the cake walk some people try to make it out to be when you view it in context historically.

I already brought up the example of the 1987 Lakers (considered by many to be their greatest team). Also keep in mind how woefully terrible the WC was in the ‘80’s, how awful the EC has been basically this whole millennium, and how GS plays in the WC of the 21st century— they didn’t get a sub .500 team in the 1st round or a 47 win team in the EC Finals in 2015, they got every member of the All NBA 1st team.

Hold up. You're making it sound like they played these guys at the same time. Curry and LeBron made the team. In the WCF they played Gasol, Davis and Harden, but they did it at different times. There's nothing especially hard about facing 1 first team guy / round.

It also doesn't mean that those teams were especially strong. Last year's Philly team didn't have a guy on the 1st team but they were better than the Pels the Warriors nuked in the 1st round.

[WarriorGM]

Dude, this was 4 years ago. You cant rewrite history that fast. Every team the W's faced in 2015 had major injuries. That was not a difficult run; their finals opponent trotted out Matthew freakin Delladova as it's 2nd best player

Dominating an entire season from start to finish like the Warriors did in 2015 is never easy. We know LeBron has been able to get teams like his 2007 and 2018 Cavaliers to the finals out of the Eastern Conference as well. The 2015 version without Kyrie after game 1 (which the Warriors won) wasn't that much different. Are the 2007 Spurs criticized for being lucky to face LeBron?

The Warriors didn't dominate 2015.

Well for comparison let's take the Beautiful Game 2014 Spurs.

2015 Dubs won 67 games in the regular season vs. 62 for the 2014 Spurs.
2015 Dubs lost 2 less games in the playoffs than the 2014 Spurs.

The 2015 Dubs had an estimated Elo rating of 1822 vs. 1760 for the 2014 Spurs. Very few teams in history have had an estimated Elo over 1800.

[BayWarrior]

I have Curry around 15 right now but do think top 10 is not out of the question. For all this talk about the Centers being better basketball players cause of defense, not many of them would be able to even bring the ball up the court 90 ft. Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Russel, Shaq and Robinson need a player like Curry more than Curry would need them to be an all time great. He will never break into the top 5 ahead of MJ, LBJ, Kobe, Magic and Bird who could do everything (other players like KD could be in this too) but with a few more great seasons he could break the top 10.

Duncand and Roninson never had a player like Curry.

So your saying Duncan and Robinson were the primary ball handlers? And Rod Strickland, Avery Johnson and Tony Parker were not there? That's all I was getting at. Those Bigs are better defensively but couldn't bring the ball up the court regularly.

[Myth]

I don't have him top 10, but there is an outside case for it. I have him and Kobe floating around 12/13-ish.

[rtiff68]

Dude, this was 4 years ago. You cant rewrite history that fast. Every team the W's faced in 2015 had major injuries. That was not a difficult run; their finals opponent trotted out Matthew freakin Delladova as it's 2nd best player

If you act like their 2015 road was anything less than “average” on the difficulty scale, then you’re the one rewriting history— either that, or you’re completely ignoring it.

I’m not pretending the GSW 2015 path was anything like the DAL 2011 path, I’m simply saying that it wasn’t the cake walk some people try to make it out to be when you view it in context historically.

I already brought up the example of the 1987 Lakers (considered by many to be their greatest team). Also keep in mind how woefully terrible the WC was in the ‘80’s, how awful the EC has been basically this whole millennium, and how GS plays in the WC of the 21st century— they didn’t get a sub .500 team in the 1st round or a 47 win team in the EC Finals in 2015, they got every member of the All NBA 1st team.

Hold up. You're making it sound like they played these guys at the same time. Curry and LeBron made the team. In the WCF they played Gasol, Davis and Harden, but they did it at different times. There's nothing especially hard about facing 1 first team guy / round.

It also doesn't mean that those teams were especially strong. Last year's Philly team didn't have a guy on the 1st team but they were better than the Pels the Warriors nuked in the 1st round.

I'm simply pointing out that the narrative that GSW's 2015 path to the title was some kind of cake walk, relatively speaking, is nonsense. The fact that they played in the FAR more difficult conference at the time just by itself gives them a leg up on at least 25% of the champions (rough estimate).

Like I said, I would say that their path to the title was roughly average: they played in the aforementioned tougher conference, they faced all of the aforementioned 1st teamers, but they had a few injuries go their way (none of which happened to the 1st teamers, though).

[mademan]

That was the only time in history that a member of the All NBA 1st team went through every other member of the All NBA 1st team en route to a title...and it was in the notoriously more difficult Conference...

...but let’s keep up the narrative that 2015 was “lucky because the field was weak due to injuries.”

Want some historical context? The 1987 Lakers only faced one team with a winning record— the 42-40 Warriors in the 2nd round— before reaching the Finals.

Their path, and the paths of every other champion, was WAY more difficult than GSW’s in 2015, though.

Dude, this was 4 years ago. You cant rewrite history that fast. Every team the W's faced in 2015 had major injuries. That was not a difficult run; their finals opponent trotted out Matthew freakin Delladova as it's 2nd best player

If you act like their 2015 road was anything less than “average” on the difficulty scale, then you’re the one rewriting history— either that, or you’re completely ignoring it.

I’m not pretending the GSW 2015 path was anything like the DAL 2011 path, I’m simply saying that it wasn’t the cake walk some people try to make it out to be when you view it in context historically.

I already brought up the example of the 1987 Lakers (considered by many to be their greatest team). Also keep in mind how woefully terrible the WC was in the ‘80’s, how awful the EC has been basically this whole millennium, and how GS plays in the WC of the 21st century— they didn’t get a sub .500 team in the 1st round or a 47 win team in the EC Finals in 2015, they got every member of the All NBA 1st team.

They swept a 45 win 8 seed who missed Holiday for a game
They best a Memphis team in 6 who missed 2 of their top 5 players for a game each
Rockets was in line for an average CF matchup
They beat the Cavs who missed their 2nd and 3rd best player for 5 and 6 games respectively

In the past 15 years, you cant name a road to a championship that was easier. Which makes it very much un-average

[rtiff68]

Dude, this was 4 years ago. You cant rewrite history that fast. Every team the W's faced in 2015 had major injuries. That was not a difficult run; their finals opponent trotted out Matthew freakin Delladova as it's 2nd best player

If you act like their 2015 road was anything less than “average” on the difficulty scale, then you’re the one rewriting history— either that, or you’re completely ignoring it.

I’m not pretending the GSW 2015 path was anything like the DAL 2011 path, I’m simply saying that it wasn’t the cake walk some people try to make it out to be when you view it in context historically.

I already brought up the example of the 1987 Lakers (considered by many to be their greatest team). Also keep in mind how woefully terrible the WC was in the ‘80’s, how awful the EC has been basically this whole millennium, and how GS plays in the WC of the 21st century— they didn’t get a sub .500 team in the 1st round or a 47 win team in the EC Finals in 2015, they got every member of the All NBA 1st team.

They swept a 45 win 8 seed who missed Holiday for a game
They best a Memphis team in 6 who missed 2 of their top 5 players for a game each
Rockets was in line for an average CF matchup
They beat the Cavs who missed their 2nd and 3rd best player for 5 and 6 games respectively

In the past 15 years, you cant name a road to a championship that was easier. Which makes it very much un-average

Do we really need to go year-by-year for the last 15 years looking at every Finals winner? How about I randomly pick one to start...

-They played a 49 win Utah Jazz team in the 1st round (best players were Boozer and DWill). Not anything special, but I'll say a tougher opponent than the Pelicans, even though Davis was the best player on either team.

-They played a 53 win Rockets team in the 2nd round...who lost Yao in Game 3 due to injury for the rest of the series (see, injuries happened in years other than 2015 too!). Their other starters were Aaron Brooks, older Metta, Luis Scola, and Yao's replacement...Chuck Hayes. I'll take the 55 win Grizzlies minus Conley for 1 game over that Yao-less Rockets squad.

-They played a 54 win Denver Nuggets team in the WCF whose best player was legendary playoff performer Carmelo Anthony. The Warriors played a 56 win Rockets team with legendary playoff performer James Harden. Those Rockets had a slightly better SRS (3.81- 3.13), but it's close. I would say the Rockets were the tougher opponents, but I think calling it a wash is reasonable.

-Due to KG's injury, they dodged the Celtics and ended up with the Orlando Magic in the Finals. They had a nice regular season, but they also had a starting backcourt of Rafer Alston (lol) and Courtney Lee. They were completely overmatched. That team, or a team with peak LeBron on it in playoff God-mode? I'm not sure...

I literally picked that one out of a hat, and it's absolutely debatable. That's just one, and your claim was definitively that "all 15 other champions had easier roads."

People have short memories.

[Nazrmohamed]

I think plenty of stats have shown hes the best 3pt shooter ever and one of the best pure scorers ever. So it's not crazy to think hes in the discussion off that alone. But then the Championships and playoff runs in addition add to that resume.

But usually when you think of the greatest players ever you find guys who changed the way the game is played and whether I like it or not doesnt matter. He most definitely changed the way the game is played. Actually maybe Dantoni did but until Steph came around it was a gimmick

[mademan]

If you act like their 2015 road was anything less than “average” on the difficulty scale, then you’re the one rewriting history— either that, or you’re completely ignoring it.

I’m not pretending the GSW 2015 path was anything like the DAL 2011 path, I’m simply saying that it wasn’t the cake walk some people try to make it out to be when you view it in context historically.

I already brought up the example of the 1987 Lakers (considered by many to be their greatest team). Also keep in mind how woefully terrible the WC was in the ‘80’s, how awful the EC has been basically this whole millennium, and how GS plays in the WC of the 21st century— they didn’t get a sub .500 team in the 1st round or a 47 win team in the EC Finals in 2015, they got every member of the All NBA 1st team.

They swept a 45 win 8 seed who missed Holiday for a game
They best a Memphis team in 6 who missed 2 of their top 5 players for a game each
Rockets was in line for an average CF matchup
They beat the Cavs who missed their 2nd and 3rd best player for 5 and 6 games respectively

In the past 15 years, you cant name a road to a championship that was easier. Which makes it very much un-average

Do we really need to go year-by-year for the last 15 years looking at every Finals winner? How about I randomly pick one to start...

-They played a 49 win Utah Jazz team in the 1st round (best players were Boozer and DWill). Not anything special, but I'll say a tougher opponent than the Pelicans, even though Davis was the best player on either team.

-They played a 53 win Rockets team in the 2nd round...who lost Yao in Game 3 due to injury for the rest of the series (see, injuries happened in years other than 2015 too!). Their other starters were Aaron Brooks, older Metta, Luis Scola, and Yao's replacement...Chuck Hayes. I'll take the 55 win Grizzlies minus Conley for 1 game over that Yao-less Rockets squad.

-They played a 54 win Denver Nuggets team in the WCF whose best player was legendary playoff performer Carmelo Anthony. The Warriors played a 56 win Rockets team with legendary playoff performer James Harden. Those Rockets had a slightly better SRS (3.81- 3.13), but it's close. I would say the Rockets were the tougher opponents, but I think calling it a wash is reasonable.

-Due to KG's injury, they dodged the Celtics and ended up with the Orlando Magic in the Finals. They had a nice regular season, but they also had a starting backcourt of Rafer Alston (lol) and Courtney Lee. They were completely overmatched. That team, or a team with peak LeBron on it in playoff God-mode? I'm not sure...

I literally picked that one out of a hat, and it's absolutely debatable. That's just one, and your claim was definitively that "all 15 other champions had easier roads."

People have short memories.

It's not debateable though. You can certainly argue the actual conferences, but that 2009 Magic team was a borderline 60 win, 6.5 SRS team, best defense in the league with an MVP level player in Dwight. That was a great team that was on another tier than any team the W's faced by almost every metric. Analytically, the championship Lakers were barely better than them

[rtiff68]

They swept a 45 win 8 seed who missed Holiday for a game
They best a Memphis team in 6 who missed 2 of their top 5 players for a game each
Rockets was in line for an average CF matchup
They beat the Cavs who missed their 2nd and 3rd best player for 5 and 6 games respectively

In the past 15 years, you cant name a road to a championship that was easier. Which makes it very much un-average

Do we really need to go year-by-year for the last 15 years looking at every Finals winner? How about I randomly pick one to start...

-They played a 49 win Utah Jazz team in the 1st round (best players were Boozer and DWill). Not anything special, but I'll say a tougher opponent than the Pelicans, even though Davis was the best player on either team.

-They played a 53 win Rockets team in the 2nd round...who lost Yao in Game 3 due to injury for the rest of the series (see, injuries happened in years other than 2015 too!). Their other starters were Aaron Brooks, older Metta, Luis Scola, and Yao's replacement...Chuck Hayes. I'll take the 55 win Grizzlies minus Conley for 1 game over that Yao-less Rockets squad.

-They played a 54 win Denver Nuggets team in the WCF whose best player was legendary playoff performer Carmelo Anthony. The Warriors played a 56 win Rockets team with legendary playoff performer James Harden. Those Rockets had a slightly better SRS (3.81- 3.13), but it's close. I would say the Rockets were the tougher opponents, but I think calling it a wash is reasonable.

-Due to KG's injury, they dodged the Celtics and ended up with the Orlando Magic in the Finals. They had a nice regular season, but they also had a starting backcourt of Rafer Alston (lol) and Courtney Lee. They were completely overmatched. That team, or a team with peak LeBron on it in playoff God-mode? I'm not sure...

I literally picked that one out of a hat, and it's absolutely debatable. That's just one, and your claim was definitively that "all 15 other champions had easier roads."

People have short memories.

It's not debateable though. You can certainly argue the actual conferences, but that 2009 Magic team was a borderline 60 win, 6.5 SRS team, best defense in the league with an MVP level player in Dwight. That was a great team that was on another tier than any team the W's faced by almost every metric. Analytically, the championship Lakers were barely better than them

If we look at nothing but SRS, the Lakers had the tougher 1st round opponent, the Warriors had the tougher 2nd round opponent (those Rockets had an inferior SRS to the Grizzlies WITH Yao), the Warriors had the tougher Conference Finals opponent, and the Lakers had the tougher Finals opponent. How does that automatically equal the Lakers having the tougher path overall?

...and that's going strictly by the numbers, and not even factoring into how much 2015 LeBron raised his game in the playoffs and how that potentially impacts theh calculus.

You sure you want to hold to your position that it's not debatable? And remember: this is just one year.

[mademan]

Do we really need to go year-by-year for the last 15 years looking at every Finals winner? How about I randomly pick one to start...

-They played a 49 win Utah Jazz team in the 1st round (best players were Boozer and DWill). Not anything special, but I'll say a tougher opponent than the Pelicans, even though Davis was the best player on either team.

-They played a 53 win Rockets team in the 2nd round...who lost Yao in Game 3 due to injury for the rest of the series (see, injuries happened in years other than 2015 too!). Their other starters were Aaron Brooks, older Metta, Luis Scola, and Yao's replacement...Chuck Hayes. I'll take the 55 win Grizzlies minus Conley for 1 game over that Yao-less Rockets squad.

-They played a 54 win Denver Nuggets team in the WCF whose best player was legendary playoff performer Carmelo Anthony. The Warriors played a 56 win Rockets team with legendary playoff performer James Harden. Those Rockets had a slightly better SRS (3.81- 3.13), but it's close. I would say the Rockets were the tougher opponents, but I think calling it a wash is reasonable.

-Due to KG's injury, they dodged the Celtics and ended up with the Orlando Magic in the Finals. They had a nice regular season, but they also had a starting backcourt of Rafer Alston (lol) and Courtney Lee. They were completely overmatched. That team, or a team with peak LeBron on it in playoff God-mode? I'm not sure...

I literally picked that one out of a hat, and it's absolutely debatable. That's just one, and your claim was definitively that "all 15 other champions had easier roads."

People have short memories.

It's not debateable though. You can certainly argue the actual conferences, but that 2009 Magic team was a borderline 60 win, 6.5 SRS team, best defense in the league with an MVP level player in Dwight. That was a great team that was on another tier than any team the W's faced by almost every metric. Analytically, the championship Lakers were barely better than them

If we look at nothing but SRS, the Lakers had the tougher 1st round opponent, the Warriors had the tougher 2nd round opponent (those Rockets had an inferior SRS to the Grizzlies WITH Yao), the Warriors had the tougher Conference Finals opponent, and the Lakers had the tougher Finals opponent. How does that automatically equal the Lakers having the tougher path overall?

...and that's going strictly by the numbers, and not even factoring into how much 2015 LeBron raised his game in the playoffs and how that potentially impacts theh calculus.

You sure you want to hold to your position that it's not debatable? And remember: this is just one year.

You mentioned the Rox injuries but didnt the Cavs?

Regardless, i already said the conferences were similar as 2009 was also a weak year in the West. The big difference is the Lakers faced a contender level team in the finals and the Warriors didnt. And no matter what you think of Lebron, no good team will ever lose in a series to a squad where Delladova is the 2nd best player.

I very much stand by what i said. As championship years go, it was the easiest of the last 15 years. Very far from average

[rtiff68]

It's not debateable though. You can certainly argue the actual conferences, but that 2009 Magic team was a borderline 60 win, 6.5 SRS team, best defense in the league with an MVP level player in Dwight. That was a great team that was on another tier than any team the W's faced by almost every metric. Analytically, the championship Lakers were barely better than them

If we look at nothing but SRS, the Lakers had the tougher 1st round opponent, the Warriors had the tougher 2nd round opponent (those Rockets had an inferior SRS to the Grizzlies WITH Yao), the Warriors had the tougher Conference Finals opponent, and the Lakers had the tougher Finals opponent. How does that automatically equal the Lakers having the tougher path overall?

...and that's going strictly by the numbers, and not even factoring into how much 2015 LeBron raised his game in the playoffs and how that potentially impacts theh calculus.

You sure you want to hold to your position that it's not debatable? And remember: this is just one year.

You mentioned the Rox injuries but didnt the Cavs?

Regardless, i already said the conferences were similar as 2009 was also a weak year in the West. The big difference is the Lakers faced a contender level team in the finals and the Warriors didnt. And no matter what you think of Lebron, no good team will ever lose in a series to a squad where Delladova is the 2nd best player.

I very much stand by what i said. As championship years go, it was the easiest of the last 15 years. Very far from average

Do I really need to mention the Cavs injuries in 2015? It's literally the first thing those with agendas bring up ad nauseam. lol. I didn't think that was necessary.

You are repeating yourself and not addressing my points. The "path to the championship" does not JUST include the Finals match-up. I illustrated that, purely in terms of data, both the 2009 Lakers and the 2015 Warriors each had an advantage (in terms of opponent strength) in 2 out of the 4 rounds. If you want to act like the 2009 Orlando Magic were some kind of scales tipping juggernaut in a debate like this, then I don't know what to say-- this is a team that started Rafer Alston, Courtney Lee, and Hedo Turkoglu AND, ironically, really only made the Finals because of KG's injury (I think 2008 and 2010 pretty definitively illustrate that).

You can't even prove that ONE year was definitive, and your burden of proof is fifteen.

[mademan]

If we look at nothing but SRS, the Lakers had the tougher 1st round opponent, the Warriors had the tougher 2nd round opponent (those Rockets had an inferior SRS to the Grizzlies WITH Yao), the Warriors had the tougher Conference Finals opponent, and the Lakers had the tougher Finals opponent. How does that automatically equal the Lakers having the tougher path overall?

...and that's going strictly by the numbers, and not even factoring into how much 2015 LeBron raised his game in the playoffs and how that potentially impacts theh calculus.

You sure you want to hold to your position that it's not debatable? And remember: this is just one year.

You mentioned the Rox injuries but didnt the Cavs?

Regardless, i already said the conferences were similar as 2009 was also a weak year in the West. The big difference is the Lakers faced a contender level team in the finals and the Warriors didnt. And no matter what you think of Lebron, no good team will ever lose in a series to a squad where Delladova is the 2nd best player.

I very much stand by what i said. As championship years go, it was the easiest of the last 15 years. Very far from average

Do I really need to mention the Cavs injuries in 2015? It's literally the first thing those with agendas bring up ad nauseam. lol. I didn't think that was necessary.

You are repeating yourself and not addressing my points. The "path to the championship" does not JUST include the Finals match-up. I illustrated that, purely in terms of data, both the 2009 Lakers and the 2015 Warriors each had an advantage (in terms of opponent strength) in 2 out of the 4 rounds. If you want to act like the 2009 Orlando Magic were some kind of scales tipping juggernaut in a debate like this, then I don't know what to say-- this is a team that started Rafer Alston, Courtney Lee, and Hedo Turkoglu AND, ironically, really only made the Finals because of KG's injury (I think 2008 and 2010 pretty definitively illustrate that).

You can't even prove that ONE year was definitive, and your burden of proof is fifteen.

I cant prove it because you dont think Orlando was amazing. They were

They were the 4th best team in SRS, slightly behind LAL
They won 59 games
They were the best defense in the league
They had an MVP caliber player
They thrashed the best team year round in the league in the Cavs to make it to the finals


Yes, they tip the scale. This math that you have of 'it's 2 series each' makes no sense. It assumes that 1st rounder= 2nd round=CF=Finals, and nobody thinks like that. And nothing will prove it definitively to you. This was not 20 years ago; it was 4. You cant revisionist history what just happened; the vast majority on this forum (avid ball fans) were treating it very much like the Raps vs GSW. Except the Raps at least had 2 legit contenders they had to go through.

[rtiff68]

You mentioned the Rox injuries but didnt the Cavs?

Regardless, i already said the conferences were similar as 2009 was also a weak year in the West. The big difference is the Lakers faced a contender level team in the finals and the Warriors didnt. And no matter what you think of Lebron, no good team will ever lose in a series to a squad where Delladova is the 2nd best player.

I very much stand by what i said. As championship years go, it was the easiest of the last 15 years. Very far from average

Do I really need to mention the Cavs injuries in 2015? It's literally the first thing those with agendas bring up ad nauseam. lol. I didn't think that was necessary.

You are repeating yourself and not addressing my points. The "path to the championship" does not JUST include the Finals match-up. I illustrated that, purely in terms of data, both the 2009 Lakers and the 2015 Warriors each had an advantage (in terms of opponent strength) in 2 out of the 4 rounds. If you want to act like the 2009 Orlando Magic were some kind of scales tipping juggernaut in a debate like this, then I don't know what to say-- this is a team that started Rafer Alston, Courtney Lee, and Hedo Turkoglu AND, ironically, really only made the Finals because of KG's injury (I think 2008 and 2010 pretty definitively illustrate that).

You can't even prove that ONE year was definitive, and your burden of proof is fifteen.

I cant prove it because you dont think Orlando was amazing. They were

They were the 4th best team in SRS, slightly behind LAL
They won 59 games
They were the best defense in the league
They had an MVP caliber player
They thrashed the best team year round in the league in the Cavs to make it to the finals


Yes, they tip the scale. This math that you have of 'it's 2 series each' makes no sense. It assumes that 1st rounder= 2nd round=CF=Finals, and nobody thinks like that. And nothing will prove it definitively to you. This was not 20 years ago; it was 4. You cant revisionist history what just happened; the vast majority on this forum (avid ball fans) were treating it very much like the Raps vs GSW. Except the Raps at least had 2 legit contenders they had to go through.

That last part is 100% narrative feasting upon narrative: "they only won cuz injuries" became a battle cry-- predominantly amongst LeBron fans-- on a board that is, let's be honest, notoriously pro-LeBron. I like LeBron a lot, for what it's worth-- I'm just calling a spade a spade.

IF regular season SRS and games won is so significant in such debates, then how did the 2016 Warriors (with a 10.38 SRS and 73 wins) fall short the following season?

Because being great in the regular season does not perfectly translate to being great in the playoffs, particularly when the other team has the best player on the floor. If that wasn't the case, and teams like the 2009 Magic were as amazing as you claim, then Mike D'Antoni would have as many rings as Riley or Popovich.

[Iplaytolose]

Unless he wins another ring post KD, I think he's outside the top 10.

He's not impactful enough of a defensive player for his position or especially well rounded to be a top 10 ATG... he is more of an elite specialist, although he is by far the best shooter ever which he should be in the top 20 for that alone. not necessarily top 10 though.

Having no FMVPs hurt him, and he wasn't like he was cheated out of any. He was never the best player in any finals he played in. It's an admirable quality to take a backseat to teammates, but this keeps him out of the top 10 too.

Last but not least, he lost when he was up 3-1 in the finals... If he would have closed the 73 win season out, you could make the argument he's top 10 ATG.

[WarriorGM]

Unless he wins another ring post KD, I think he's outside the top 10.

He's not impactful enough of a defensive player for his position or especially well rounded to be a top 10 ATG... he is more of an elite specialist, although he is by far the best shooter ever which he should be in the top 20 for that alone. not necessarily top 10 though.

Having no FMVPs hurt him, and he wasn't like he was cheated out of any. He was never the best player in any finals he played in. It's an admirable quality to take a backseat to teammates, but this keeps him out of the top 10 too.

Last but not least, he lost when he was up 3-1 in the finals... If he would have closed the 73 win season out, you could make the argument he's top 10 ATG.

Oh brother! The stories people come up with.

Is there some rule that all players must look a certain way? That seems to be a cookie cutter approach that applies a dogma rather than looking at reality. It shows that there is indeed a bias working against Curry.

Curry was cheated out of an FMVP in 2015. 2017 and 2018 were a coin flip with 2018 being one where if narrative considerations was ever justified that would be the one. The failure of FMVP voters to recognize the most valuable player of the greatest team ever will haunt that award.

If Curry had closed out 2016 one would have a strong argument he's the best player of all-time. He had just come-off a grueling 7-game series against the two nearest MVPs in time to himself after a couple of injuries earlier in the playoffs caused him to miss games and then to top it off had referees choosing to eject his teammate and himself from games. You have other ATGs being swept and losing by the largest margins, why on earth should coming close to winning be held against Curry?

[michaelm]

Unless he wins another ring post KD, I think he's outside the top 10.

He's not impactful enough of a defensive player for his position or especially well rounded to be a top 10 ATG... he is more of an elite specialist, although he is by far the best shooter ever which he should be in the top 20 for that alone. not necessarily top 10 though.

Having no FMVPs hurt him, and he wasn't like he was cheated out of any. He was never the best player in any finals he played in. It's an admirable quality to take a backseat to teammates, but this keeps him out of the top 10 too.

Last but not least, he lost when he was up 3-1 in the finals... If he would have closed the 73 win season out, you could make the argument he's top 10 ATG.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

I am happy for him to be rated behind the likes of Hakeem and Kobe at this point in time, but it is a team game and what counts is the team you can build around a player and how influential he is as a player for his team. He is a PG and can’t be expected to be as dominant a defensive player as the likes of Hakeem, but lineups containing him have managed to be good defensively, and the effort he puts in defensively as opposed to some other highly elite offensive players has been part of a cohesive team ethos.

As you say, we perhaps need to see another title winning team built around him. If one is, his lack of dominance defensively would become fairly irrelevant imo. And whether or not he was hampered in the 2016 finals, his team came back from 3-1 down to Durant’s OKC team despite which many rate Durant ahead of him now, and LeBron is easily rated top 10 by most, and the best ever by some, despite his rather ignominious failure in the 2011 finals.