Knicks camp/preseason thread - Link in OP

[Knicksfan1992]

Allonzo Trier is going to be good and you all will like it...

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Yep as i wrote in a long form post here about a month ago a lot of underlying numbers pegged Trier as a great catch and shoot guy. He just needed to be more willing to take them. He also showed a great skip pass out of pick and roll today to set up an above the break 3. He's such an intriguing prospect because the pathway is there to be a really big offensive force and he's just big enough where he won't get completely picked on defensively.

I love the kid. I hope the Knicks invest in him long term.

[malik959]

I wasn’t able to watch the live scrimmage but I love how much hostility there is in the thread. Most of y’all are in mid season form and I love it.


Also how’d RJ look? I saw him hit a three and that’s it.

Like he's already seasoned. Looked pretty good, still adjusting to that 3pt shot, but he looks like he definitely a keeper. But Knox!!! Knox looks like the best shooter on the team no dought and Morris (as expected) looked good to. Put up some forced shots but overall looked good. Both Trier and RJ are seriously fighting for that 2 spot but I feel RJ might have the edge because of his versatility. Better defender, size, able to switch. Overall I like the make of this team and feel that they can Compete.

[Clyde_Style]

No one is talking about the PG's, but I saw Frank make the most plays that led to buckets. He was better than Payton and was mostly in FIBA Frank mode. He shied away from shooting only a couple of times and the rest of the time he was aggressive in taking his shot. His step back three is looking solid. He made several excellent PnR passes and looked comfortable with the ball in his hands.

[br7knicks]

Allonzo Trier is going to be good and you all will like it...

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As someone who is anti Trier, I'm thrilled to hear this. Maybe he's figured basketball out.

He might be worth keeping around, after all, if he can continue doing this. Just hope it translates to the regular season

[br7knicks]

No one is talking about the PG's, but I saw Frank make the most plays that led to buckets. He was better than Payton and was mostly in FIBA Frank mode. He shied away from shooting only a couple of times and the rest of the time he was aggressive in taking his shot. His step back three is looking solid. He made several excellent PnR passes and looked comfortable with the ball in his hands.

He looked really good out there, especially compared to previous years.

But we need to see him do this during the regular season. It's a positive sign, just hope it continues

[Clyde_Style]

No one is talking about the PG's, but I saw Frank make the most plays that led to buckets. He was better than Payton and was mostly in FIBA Frank mode. He shied away from shooting only a couple of times and the rest of the time he was aggressive in taking his shot. His step back three is looking solid. He made several excellent PnR passes and looked comfortable with the ball in his hands.

He looked really good out there, especially compared to previous years.

But we need to see him do this during the regular season. It's a positive sign, just hope it continues

I think he's ready. Now he needs minutes to grow faster.

I don't feel good about Smith's back though. He ended last season with back problems.

I hope this leads to Frank starting with Trier or RJ.

[TBri1974]

No one is talking about the PG's, but I saw Frank make the most plays that led to buckets. He was better than Payton and was mostly in FIBA Frank mode. He shied away from shooting only a couple of times and the rest of the time he was aggressive in taking his shot. His step back three is looking solid. He made several excellent PnR passes and looked comfortable with the ball in his hands.

He looked really good out there, especially compared to previous years.

But we need to see him do this during the regular season. It's a positive sign, just hope it continues

I think he's ready. Now he needs minutes to grow faster.

I don't feel good about Smith's back though. He ended last season with back problems.

I hope this leads to Frank starting with Trier or RJ.

I would be much more excited about this team if we trotted out:

Frank
RJ
Knox
Morris
Mitch

As our starting 5. Accept Randle is likely going to start at the 4 and that is okay too.

[HerSports85]

Just a little squad bonding

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[Clyde_Style]

He looked really good out there, especially compared to previous years.

But we need to see him do this during the regular season. It's a positive sign, just hope it continues

I think he's ready. Now he needs minutes to grow faster.

I don't feel good about Smith's back though. He ended last season with back problems.

I hope this leads to Frank starting with Trier or RJ.

I would be much more excited about this team if we trotted out:

Frank
RJ
Knox
Morris
Mitch

As our starting 5. Accept Randle is likely going to start at the 4 and that is okay too.

If Frank's threes are dropping, then him and RJ could be a backcourt. Otherwise, I like Frank and Zo more, but RJ is the # 3 pick so I'm more or less expecting him to start, so yeah I'm OK with that line-up

Also, I see some other posters thought Morris looked good today, but I really saw nothing interesting in what he did today. He hit some perimeter shots, but took many bad shots too. I know he's a solid player, but I'm not sold on him having to start. He probably will though.

A starting line-up I'd test out is

Frank
Zo
RJ
Knox
Mitch

which basically slides RJ into the SF spot. That unit could have some balance between D and O with some solid playmaking

but since I also expect Randle to start, that's not likely

[Chanel Bomber]

Allonzo Trier is going to be good and you all will like it...

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As someone who is anti Trier, I'm thrilled to hear this. Maybe he's figured basketball out.

He might be worth keeping around, after all, if he can continue doing this. Just hope it translates to the regular season

How can you be "anti" Trier? He's a 23 year-old undrafted kid who made it to the NBA through perseverance and hard work. Yes, he has some selfish tendencies but you got to respect his love for the game and his work ethic. He's young enough to change his habits anyway.

He's the only guard in the rotation last season who ended the season with above-league average scoring efficiency. Take a second to think about that. Was he selfish at times? Yes. But at the very least he was not an inefficient chucker. His scoring alone can be conducive to winning basketball. Just because he wasn't drafted with high expectations doesn't mean we should value him less. He's an absolute keeper unless he shows signs of complacency or regression.

[NYKat]

RJ doesn’t look like he can get by defenders and didn’t look up to running the point.

Mook, Knox and Trier all looked good though.

So like summer league game one? Or did he shoot the ball better than that?

He didn't force too much out there. Missed a few shots including a step back but had some nice strong drives that included an and 1 and a good catch and shoot 3 in transition. Wasn't great but wasnt terrible either. He'll be good in 20-25 minutes a game this year. Anything more than that and it's going to get ugly...

RJ was aggressive too, his body is NBA ready and he’s pretty strong. He’ll be a slashing scorer until his jumper gets consistent and then ‘watch out!’

[NYKat]

I wasn’t able to watch the live scrimmage but I love how much hostility there is in the thread. Most of y’all are in mid season form and I love it.


Also how’d RJ look? I saw him hit a three and that’s it.

RJ doesn’t look like he can get by defenders and didn’t look up to running the point.

Mook, Knox and Trier all looked good though.

Disagree about getting by defenders: he scored that nice and1 against frank in the paint with his strength and dunked it in the halfcourt when he drove past Trier and Randle.

He’ll get to the line a lot

As far as him running the point I don’t know what that was about.

[HarthorneWingo]

I still believe going with Mitch and the four vets (Randle, Morris, Payton, and Ellington) is a slick move. One, starting the vets takes all the pressure off our young guys like RJ, Frank, DSJ, Knox who all have something to prove this season. Let them come off the bench as a unit and develop some confidence and chemistry against the opposing team's second unit. They would certainly bring a lot of energy off the bench. Hopefully, this would help them develop some chemistry and a defensive identity. Let them make Fizdale change his mind. It's good for them. Let them feel slighted.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Trier had a pretty amazing year when you consider what we were doing. He seems like he will be a smart offensive player.

[Clyde_Style]

I wasn’t able to watch the live scrimmage but I love how much hostility there is in the thread. Most of y’all are in mid season form and I love it.


Also how’d RJ look? I saw him hit a three and that’s it.

RJ doesn’t look like he can get by defenders and didn’t look up to running the point.

Mook, Knox and Trier all looked good though.

Disagree about getting by defenders: he scored that nice and1 against frank in the paint with his strength and dunked it in the halfcourt when he drove past Trier and Randle.

He’ll get to the line a lot

As far as him running the point I don’t know what that was about.

Frank and RJ went at each other. Each had a play where they drove hard on and beat each other.

RJ's was cool, because Frank's hands were all over RJ in the paint and RJ basically muscled the ball past Frank's hands to get it up to the rim. Frank's D was really good, but RJ is quite strong.

Frank's drive was good too, because he put RJ on his hip and drove to the paint with strength and RJ couldn't stop him.

Frank's drives were strong tonight. He even tried to dunk over a big.

RJ actually has no problem getting into the paint, so the real factor for him not being the quickest player on the floor is his strength. He can navigate a path to the basket in traffic and finds a way to get off contested shots. He could end up on the leader boards for FTAs.

[Clyde_Style]

I still believe going with Mitch and the four vets (Randle, Morris, Payton, and Ellington) is a slick move. One, starting the vets takes all the pressure off our young guys like RJ, Frank, DSJ, Knox who all have something to prove this season. Let them come off the bench as a unit and develop some confidence and chemistry against the opposing team's second unit. They would certainly bring a lot of energy off the bench. Hopefully, this would help them develop some chemistry and a defensive identity. Let them make Fizdale change his mind. It's good for them. Let them feel slighted.

Now you want to start Ellington?

Snap the F out of this babysitting crap you've been pushing

[br7knicks]

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As someone who is anti Trier, I'm thrilled to hear this. Maybe he's figured basketball out.

He might be worth keeping around, after all, if he can continue doing this. Just hope it translates to the regular season

How can you be "anti" Trier? He's a 23 year-old undrafted kid who made it to the NBA through perseverance and hard work. Yes, he has some selfish tendencies but you got to respect his love for the game and his work ethic. He's young enough to change his habits anyway.

He's the only guard in the rotation last season who ended the season with above-league average scoring efficiency. Take a second to think about that. Was he selfish at times? Yes. But at the very least he was not an inefficient chucker. His scoring alone can be conducive to winning basketball. Just because he wasn't drafted with high expectations doesn't mean we should value him less. He's an absolute keeper unless he shows signs of complacency or regression.

well, no. he was selfish most of the time, especially coming down and taking a shot right away, without making a pass. he was more often than not, a black hole. the only person worse than him on defense was knox. there was a lot to dislike about trier last year. we went through too many years of chuckers who didn't play defense.

his style of play, last year, was the opposite of conducive to winning. look at the majority of successful and championship level teams the last decade or so - it's all about highIQ players that play as a team. trier showed none of that.

he did work hard and hustle, but it was mostly at the expense of the team, and winning basketball.


i just hope he's almost nothing like he was last year, because i want to see the knicks finally start to win. we need to see less players like trier last year if we want to see wins. hopefully his play today is what he shows during the regular season (and maybe PO).


until he shows it in the regular season against other teams, he's far from a keeper. but hopefully he'll show the type of player he can be, like he did today. then he'll be a keeper.

[HarthorneWingo]

I still believe going with Mitch and the four vets (Randle, Morris, Payton, and Ellington) is a slick move. One, starting the vets takes all the pressure off our young guys like RJ, Frank, DSJ, Knox who all have something to prove this season. Let them come off the bench as a unit and develop some confidence and chemistry against the opposing team's second unit. They would certainly bring a lot of energy off the bench. Hopefully, this would help them develop some chemistry and a defensive identity. Let them make Fizdale change his mind. It's good for them. Let them feel slighted.

Now you want to start Ellington?

Snap the F out of this babysitting crap you've been pushing

No, I want to "showcase" Ellington. C'mon, man, keep up with me here.

[br7knicks]

I still believe going with Mitch and the four vets (Randle, Morris, Payton, and Ellington) is a slick move. One, starting the vets takes all the pressure off our young guys like RJ, Frank, DSJ, Knox who all have something to prove this season. Let them come off the bench as a unit and develop some confidence and chemistry against the opposing team's second unit. They would certainly bring a lot of energy off the bench. Hopefully, this would help them develop some chemistry and a defensive identity. Let them make Fizdale change his mind. It's good for them. Let them feel slighted.

there is something to that.

i disagree, for the most part, but there are positives to the vets starting the season with getting minutes.

- takes pressure off the young guys to be successful right away.
- makes the young guys go out and earn those minutes - then provides a great sense of accomplishment.
- vets can slowly show the young guys how to play.


i don't think it should be the 4 vets and mitch, but maybe a healthy mix.


ideally, i'd like to see

payton/dsjr
frank
rj
randle
mitch

[Clyde_Style]

As someone who is anti Trier, I'm thrilled to hear this. Maybe he's figured basketball out.

He might be worth keeping around, after all, if he can continue doing this. Just hope it translates to the regular season

How can you be "anti" Trier? He's a 23 year-old undrafted kid who made it to the NBA through perseverance and hard work. Yes, he has some selfish tendencies but you got to respect his love for the game and his work ethic. He's young enough to change his habits anyway.

He's the only guard in the rotation last season who ended the season with above-league average scoring efficiency. Take a second to think about that. Was he selfish at times? Yes. But at the very least he was not an inefficient chucker. His scoring alone can be conducive to winning basketball. Just because he wasn't drafted with high expectations doesn't mean we should value him less. He's an absolute keeper unless he shows signs of complacency or regression.

well, no. he was selfish most of the time, especially coming down and taking a shot right away, without making a pass. he was more often than not, a black hole. the only person worse than him on defense was knox. there was a lot to dislike about trier last year. we went through too many years of chuckers who didn't play defense.

his style of play, last year, was the opposite of conducive to winning. look at the majority of successful and championship level teams the last decade or so - it's all about highIQ players that play as a team. trier showed none of that.

he did work hard and hustle, but it was mostly at the expense of the team, and winning basketball.


i just hope he's almost nothing like he was last year, because i want to see the knicks finally start to win. we need to see less players like trier last year if we want to see wins. hopefully his play today is what he shows during the regular season (and maybe PO).


until he shows it in the regular season against other teams, he's far from a keeper. but hopefully he'll show the type of player he can be, like he did today. then he'll be a keeper.

I've thought about your bias against Zo and concluded that you let his natural style of hesitation dribbling to shake loose defenders instill in you some unshakeable impression that he's selfish because his go-to move for creating shot opportunities for himself is so playground. But that's just a skill. You need those abilities on your team for some of your players.

I honestly think you've convinced yourself he's a selfish black hole player like Melo because of this, but in reality his handle and offensive style is not a problem if his decision making is good, he makes those decisions quickly whether it means shooting or rotating the ball.