Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II

[MrDollarBills]

This whole Morey-China situation makes me uncomfortable. Different reasons than most.

I feel like there's a large segment of NBA fans that WANT the NBA to fail and cave to China. They're still mad about the Charlotte All Star game. They're mad that the NBA is OK with political statements and tries to act like a "woke" league. They want the NBA to break and choose money over politics so they can crap on everything else the NBA's done.

Oh yeah, you see it on the GB (from folks that have proven themselves to be trash people anytime an issue comes up involving women), dudes are praying that the NBA bends the knee to China.

[MrDollarBills]

Joe Tsai's statement on the Morey situation is exactly the kind of kowtowing nonsense I was concerned about.

The Hong Kong protests aren't about sovereignty, Joe. They're a response to the CCP bullying its own citizens for no worthwhile reasons.

Joe disingenuously framed his post.

Again, I'm not surprised he or the NBA is kowtowing to the CCP. The fact that a foreign government can silence an American citizen is a serious issue.

The NBA and the Rockets look terrible, and Tsai jumping in makes the Nets look bad too. I'm frankly disgusted by all of it.

[AndySF]

Joe Tsai's statement on the Morey situation is exactly the kind of kowtowing nonsense I was concerned about.

The Hong Kong protests aren't about sovereignty, Joe. They're a response to the CCP bullying its own citizens for no worthwhile reasons.

Joe disingenuously framed his post.

Again, I'm not surprised he or the NBA is kowtowing to the CCP. The fact that a foreign government can silence an American citizen is a serious issue.

The NBA and the Rockets look terrible, and Tsai jumping in makes the Nets look bad too. I'm frankly disgusted by all of it.

I generally agree with most of your views. But on this issue, I don't think that you understand the situation or know what is on the ground other than the propaganda being fed by media with agenda. It's like cultural revolution era all over again there. Local who voiced opposing opinions are being silenced and harmed simply because they don't support thwir point of view. Mainlander were attacked simply because. That's no the democracy that I know or believe.


Sometimes, you need to look at all the facts. if what took place there are in the US, lots of people will be shot at already. Hell, people got shot at for skin color for crying out loud.

[MrDollarBills]

Joe Tsai's statement on the Morey situation is exactly the kind of kowtowing nonsense I was concerned about.

The Hong Kong protests aren't about sovereignty, Joe. They're a response to the CCP bullying its own citizens for no worthwhile reasons.

Joe disingenuously framed his post.

Again, I'm not surprised he or the NBA is kowtowing to the CCP. The fact that a foreign government can silence an American citizen is a serious issue.

The NBA and the Rockets look terrible, and Tsai jumping in makes the Nets look bad too. I'm frankly disgusted by all of it.

I generally agree with most of your views. But on this issue, I don't think that you understand the situation or know what is on the ground other than the propaganda being fed by media with agenda. It's like cultural revolution era all over again there. Local who voiced opposing opinions are being silenced and harmed simply because they don't support thwir point of view. Mainlander were attacked simply because. That's no the democracy that I know or believe.


Sometimes, you need to look at all the facts. if what took place there are in the US, lots of people will be shot at already. Hell, people got shot at for skin color for crying out loud.

Andy, my point is that by calling the protesters "separatists", Joe Tsai is being disingenuous with what he wrote. Unless everything that I've read about this has been 100% wrong, Joe Tsai basically lied on behalf of the CCP. This is why a lot of NBA fans and Nets fans are pissed off with him.

Also, we are watching The CCP use their influence over an American business organization to silence Darryl Morey's right to free speech. That's not going to fly either. Should Morey have been more prudent before tweeting what he did? Absolutely. His job calls for him to do so. But all the same, the Chinese government is overstepping their bounds by coercing the NBA into silencing him being in support of the protesters. It sets a terrible precedent.

Believe me, I know that I don't know everything about the situation outside of what I've been informed about by US media and international outlets like the BBC, but I do know that the Nets owner was not being 100% genuine with his comments.

And yes, the US Government sucks too.

[flavio_93]

All these outraged people wearing nikes and tweeting rants from their iPhones are very ironic.

“I hate China and they’re so evil with no human rights... but ohhhhh I just got these new nikes made in China off of child labor, I got a sweet deal at foot locker”

[gigantes]

...I don't think that you understand the situation or know what is on the ground other than the propaganda being fed by media with agenda.

I didn't follow your post very well, and that sentence in particular, well... I have no idea what it's supposed to mean.

There is a HUGE amount of video and first-hand evidence (growing daily) that the HK police and govt are shamefully abusing protesters. People being shot at point blank range. Medical responders being handcuffed and smacked around. Torture of multiple individuals. Children being arrested for no good reason. Random attacks on bystanders across the city. Police cooperation with Traid members and other thugs.

This all started as a peaceful rally to protest the idea of HK citizens being extradited to China for punishment, something which was largely symbolic anyway, since the CCP was already kidnapping whoever it wanted to for such purposes (remember the bookseller disappearances?). I'm aware of little to no evidence that the protesters resorted to violence in the early going. Not to mention, they're far less equipped to perpetrate violence than the police.

So it's become a matter of escalation, with the HK police & govt being 95%+ responsible for this mess. Because you can't blame people for standing up for their rights, and when you smash a bunch of people in the mouth, there's always going to be some that respond aggressively, no matter who they are. That's just human nature. Govt is supposed to be smarter than that.

This is also just a typical, brainless CCP response of squashing dissent by any means necessary. You don't need to know the history of HK, or China, to be able to identify what's going on, here. It's sickening, no matter what the backstory.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Adam Silver bent the knee to the CCP and this is their response. Serves the NBA right.

I hope they cancel the Nets/Lakers games since they are so upset over a tweet. I don't want the Nets players going there period tbh.

[AndySF]

Joe disingenuously framed his post.

Again, I'm not surprised he or the NBA is kowtowing to the CCP. The fact that a foreign government can silence an American citizen is a serious issue.

The NBA and the Rockets look terrible, and Tsai jumping in makes the Nets look bad too. I'm frankly disgusted by all of it.

I generally agree with most of your views. But on this issue, I don't think that you understand the situation or know what is on the ground other than the propaganda being fed by media with agenda. It's like cultural revolution era all over again there. Local who voiced opposing opinions are being silenced and harmed simply because they don't support thwir point of view. Mainlander were attacked simply because. That's no the democracy that I know or believe.


Sometimes, you need to look at all the facts. if what took place there are in the US, lots of people will be shot at already. Hell, people got shot at for skin color for crying out loud.

Andy, my point is that by calling the protesters "separatists", Joe Tsai is being disingenuous with what he wrote. Unless everything that I've read about this has been 100% wrong, Joe Tsai basically lied on behalf of the CCP. This is why a lot of NBA fans and Nets fans are pissed off with him.

Also, we are watching The CCP use their influence over an American business organization to silence Darryl Morey's right to free speech. That's not going to fly either. Should Morey have been more prudent before tweeting what he did? Absolutely. His job calls for him to do so. But all the same, the Chinese government is overstepping their bounds by coercing the NBA into silencing him being in support of the protesters. It sets a terrible precedent.

Believe me, I know that I don't know everything about the situation outside of what I've been informed about by US media and international outlets like the BBC, but I do know that the Nets owner was not being 100% genuine with his comments.

And yes, the US Government sucks too.

I am an native Cantonese speaker and can absolutely confirm that the current violent groups' slogans are separatist. it wasn't publicly supported by the majority, but the silence is deafening.

A lot of them even refused to be identified as Chinese. One do not have to wipe away one's own heritage regardless of what they stand for. If you have access to actual material in Chinese, you will see that some of them even beg the US and Britain to come save them. Which is ironic. Consider that of the 100 years UK rule over Hong Kong, election for lawmakers only putted in place when it was set to return the territory to China. UK even pass law to prevent Hong Kong residents from moving to UK with their bno status.

Not saying I don't agree with peaceful protest, I want Hong Kong to be the shinny beacon the transform China, but this last couple of months had made sure that Hong Kong's influence to average Chinese diminished significantly. Once held in high regard by mainlanders, now they are just aeem as western puppets. Tsai is absolutely right when he said that most Chinese have a deep suspicion of the motive of the west after being bullied in the past.

I agreed that as an American I can accept that we being bullied by another country, but I fully understand why that is a #1 priority for them as well as how the Chinese people feel about this. This is just the government's reaction, it's the feeling of 90 percent of the population.

We don't live in a perfect world, and everything we hear and see was filtered and twisted to a narrative. That's true no matter where you are. Fortunately, there are plenty of information out there if you care to look. I take any side of an issue with a bucket full of salt, especially in a world where trump became and still president. Where Express one's thoughts no longer a given right in our country.

[AndySF]

I mean to say, I can't accept being bullied by another country.

[gigantes]

If a segment of HK peoples are advocating for separatism, who can blame them, anyway?

Nobody in their right mind would want to live in a police state, which is what China has become. Mainlanders being suspicious of HK is simply what the party wants, and no real sign of a conscious, informed peoples. Going against the party by even saying the wrong thing is a great way to get yourself disappeared, or put under heavy sanctions.

Most of them also don't seem to have any real understanding of other events and issues, like the Tiananmen Square Massacre, the ongoing Uyghur death, 'reeducation' and organ-harvesting camps, the Tibet occupation, or the notion that Taiwan peoples are happy with their own govt and want nothing to do with the CCP.

[MrDollarBills]

I generally agree with most of your views. But on this issue, I don't think that you understand the situation or know what is on the ground other than the propaganda being fed by media with agenda. It's like cultural revolution era all over again there. Local who voiced opposing opinions are being silenced and harmed simply because they don't support thwir point of view. Mainlander were attacked simply because. That's no the democracy that I know or believe.


Sometimes, you need to look at all the facts. if what took place there are in the US, lots of people will be shot at already. Hell, people got shot at for skin color for crying out loud.

Andy, my point is that by calling the protesters "separatists", Joe Tsai is being disingenuous with what he wrote. Unless everything that I've read about this has been 100% wrong, Joe Tsai basically lied on behalf of the CCP. This is why a lot of NBA fans and Nets fans are pissed off with him.

Also, we are watching The CCP use their influence over an American business organization to silence Darryl Morey's right to free speech. That's not going to fly either. Should Morey have been more prudent before tweeting what he did? Absolutely. His job calls for him to do so. But all the same, the Chinese government is overstepping their bounds by coercing the NBA into silencing him being in support of the protesters. It sets a terrible precedent.

Believe me, I know that I don't know everything about the situation outside of what I've been informed about by US media and international outlets like the BBC, but I do know that the Nets owner was not being 100% genuine with his comments.

And yes, the US Government sucks too.

I am an native Cantonese speaker and can absolutely confirm that the current violent groups' slogans are separatist. it wasn't publicly supported by the majority, but the silence is deafening.

A lot of them even refused to be identified as Chinese. One do not have to wipe away one's own heritage regardless of what they stand for. If you have access to actual material in Chinese, you will see that some of them even beg the US and Britain to come save them. Which is ironic. Consider that of the 100 years UK rule over Hong Kong, election for lawmakers only putted in place when it was set to return the territory to China. UK even pass law to prevent Hong Kong residents from moving to UK with their bno status.

Not saying I don't agree with peaceful protest, I want Hong Kong to be the shinny beacon the transform China, but this last couple of months had made sure that Hong Kong's influence to average Chinese diminished significantly. Once held in high regard by mainlanders, now they are just aeem as western puppets. Tsai is absolutely right when he said that most Chinese have a deep suspicion of the motive of the west after being bullied in the past.

I agreed that as an American I can accept that we being bullied by another country, but I fully understand why that is a #1 priority for them as well as how the Chinese people feel about this. This is just the government's reaction, it's the feeling of 90 percent of the population.

We don't live in a perfect world, and everything we hear and see was filtered and twisted to a narrative. That's true no matter where you are. Fortunately, there are plenty of information out there if you care to look. I take any side of an issue with a bucket full of salt, especially in a world where trump became and still president. Where Express one's thoughts no longer a given right in our country.

Thank you for adding to this. Looks like I can stand to do more research on the separatist claims on my end.

[AndySF]

...I don't think that you understand the situation or know what is on the ground other than the propaganda being fed by media with agenda.

I didn't follow your post very well, and that sentence in particular, well... I have no idea what it's supposed to mean.

There is a HUGE amount of video and first-hand evidence (growing daily) that the HK police and govt are shamefully abusing protesters. People being shot at point blank range. Medical responders being handcuffed and smacked around. Torture of multiple individuals. Children being arrested for no good reason. Random attacks on bystanders across the city. Police cooperation with Traid members and other thugs.

This all started as a peaceful rally to protest the idea of HK citizens being extradited to China for punishment, something which was largely symbolic anyway, since the CCP was already kidnapping whoever it wanted to for such purposes (remember the bookseller disappearances?). I'm aware of little to no evidence that the protesters resorted to violence in the early going. Not to mention, they're far less equipped to perpetrate violence than the police.

So it's become a matter of escalation, with the HK police & govt being 95%+ responsible for this mess. Because you can't blame people for standing up for their rights, and when you smash a bunch of people in the mouth, there's always going to be some that respond aggressively, no matter who they are. That's just human nature. Govt is supposed to be smarter than that.

This is also just a typical, brainless CCP response of squashing dissent by any means necessary. You don't need to know the history of HK, or China, to be able to identify what's going on, here. It's sickening, no matter what the backstory.

I guess there's no need to see both side of the coin if you already know everything there's to know from the internet or media outlets that you like to read.

A peaceful protest that turn violent after it is loosing steam after 2 months (with the government pledged not to push the bill). With local civilian beaten by the protesters you mentioned simply because they don't agree with the protesters. The end justify the means is what you have in common with them and you wonder why we are in trouble in this country.

In the case of the shooting, there are complete footage of what transpired(not just the version you like to see).
The person shot was canvassing the area with his group armed with pipe, pipe wrench, hammer, bricks and other weapons. When they located a police, they chased him and beating him after he fell to the ground. A second cop rushed forward with gun drawn and order them to back away. The person shot rush the cop to with serval ft. And swing the pipe at the cop. The cop shot him.

Is this a tragedy, yes. It's a surprise, hardly. Tell me what do you think would happen if this is happening in the United States? From my experience, the second cop would've started shooting from a distance and at least more than one person will be shot.

For all the footage you have to prove your beliefs, I seen just as much to prove the opposite. I had seen tons of civilians (from mainland and local) getting beat up and seriously wounded by violent protesters. It may not matter to you since as long as your original goal or ideal is noble, the end justify the means. It matters to me because, at the end of tge day, those who don't value the freedom and liberty of the other, regardless of what their beliefs are, deserves neither

[gigantes]

I guess there's no need to see both side of the coin if you already know everything there's to know from the internet or media outlets that you like to read.

And if you're going to strawman me from your very first sentence, then this isn't even a conversation. It's just you expounding your version of reality, which may or may not have any real relevance.

As a matter of fact, I do hit up a number of news outlets and group participation sites to get my raw news and opinions, which I then do my best to ponder and digest. I do try to gather a full perspective of views from across the world, as contributed directly by hundreds of people, and indirectly by millions. All that is credit to the enormous power of the internet, and by a fundamental distrust of anything that seems remotely like an echo chamber, like living in China.

Anyway, feel free to hit me up with whatever sources you have exposing the darker sides of the protesters. Meanwhile, if you're looking for a landslide of HK police abuse videos and analysis, r/China is probably a good place to start. If you're looking for a groupthink echo chamber to confirm what you already believe, r/Sino would be more approriate.

Also, let's not forget that the CCP is always trying to censor and manipulate the message, especially to its own citizens and former citizens. Casting the protesters as the troublemakers is directly what they're trying to do, regardless of how true or not true that actually is. If you're not able to recognise and understand that methodology, there really isn't the slightest reason to have a conversation here.

Indeed, the reaction to the Morey tweet is their typical 'hurt feelings' and hysterical outrage over a single contradictory POV. Because, notice-- instead of countering with evidence & facts, they're reacting like the bullies and thugs they are-- which is 100%, instantaneous censorship and economic retribution.

If you can't understand how petty and absurd that looks to the rest of the world, then I'd say you still have some adjustment to go through in your new country.

[AndySF]

I guess there's no need to see both side of the coin if you already know everything there's to know from the internet or media outlets that you like to read.

And if you're going to strawman me from your very first sentence, then this isn't even a conversation. It's just you expounding your version of reality, which may or may not have any real relevance.

As a matter of fact, I do hit up a number of news outlets and group participation sites to get my raw news and opinions, which I then do my best to ponder and digest. I do try to gather a full perspective of views from across the world, as contributed directly by hundreds of people, and indirectly by millions. All that is credit to the enormous power of the internet, and by a fundamental distrust of anything that seems remotely like an echo chamber, like living in China.

Anyway, feel free to hit me up with whatever sources you have exposing the darker sides of the protesters. Meanwhile, if you're looking for a landslide of HK police abuse videos and analysis, r/China is probably a good place to start. If you're looking for a groupthink echo chamber to confirm what you already believe, r/Sino would be more approriate.

Also, let's not forget that the CCP is always trying to censor and manipulate the message, especially to its own citizens and former citizens. Casting the protesters as the troublemakers is directly what they're trying to do, regardless of how true or not true that actually is. If you're not able to recognise and understand that methodology, there really isn't the slightest reason to have a conversation here.

Indeed, the reaction to the Morey tweet is their typical 'hurt feelings' and hysterical outrage over a single contradictory POV. Because, notice-- instead of countering with evidence & facts, they're reacting like the bullies and thugs they are-- which is 100%, instantaneous censorship and economic retribution.

If you can't understand how petty and absurd that looks to the rest of the world, then I'd say you still have some adjustment to go through in your new country.

There's no need to continue this conversation if you assume me to be a china propaganda agent and already know everything.

Here is the complete footage of the shooting if you want to see it.
https://youtu.be/GqdT7pEZUGE


At one time, I pledged to defend the life and liberty for all, not just the ones who agrees with me.

[AndySF]

I guess there's no need to see both side of the coin if you already know everything there's to know from the internet or media outlets that you like to read.

And if you're going to strawman me from your very first sentence, then this isn't even a conversation. It's just you expounding your version of reality, which may or may not have any real relevance.

As a matter of fact, I do hit up a number of news outlets and group participation sites to get my raw news and opinions, which I then do my best to ponder and digest. I do try to gather a full perspective of views from across the world, as contributed directly by hundreds of people, and indirectly by millions. All that is credit to the enormous power of the internet, and by a fundamental distrust of anything that seems remotely like an echo chamber, like living in China.

Anyway, feel free to hit me up with whatever sources you have exposing the darker sides of the protesters. Meanwhile, if you're looking for a landslide of HK police abuse videos and analysis, r/China is probably a good place to start. If you're looking for a groupthink echo chamber to confirm what you already believe, r/Sino would be more approriate.

Also, let's not forget that the CCP is always trying to censor and manipulate the message, especially to its own citizens and former citizens. Casting the protesters as the troublemakers is directly what they're trying to do, regardless of how true or not true that actually is. If you're not able to recognise and understand that methodology, there really isn't the slightest reason to have a conversation here.

Indeed, the reaction to the Morey tweet is their typical 'hurt feelings' and hysterical outrage over a single contradictory POV. Because, notice-- instead of countering with evidence & facts, they're reacting like the bullies and thugs they are-- which is 100%, instantaneous censorship and economic retribution.

If you can't understand how petty and absurd that looks to the rest of the world, then I'd say you still have some adjustment to go through in your new country.

There's no need to continue this conversation if you assume me to be a china propaganda agent and already know everything.

Here is the complete footage of the shooting if you want to see it.
https://youtu.be/GqdT7pEZUGE


At one time, I pledged to defend the life and liberty for all, not just the ones who agrees with me.

Additionally, to your last sentence, I'm sure that I will need to learn more about this new country that I call home for more than 35years. Since I will always be foreign to some. Especially if I don't kowtow.

[DarkXaero]

Just want to add in that while I understand that Tsai is in a really difficult position here, his open letter was still deeply disappointing, and the whole situation sucks for us. Let's see what happens with the preseason games now.

[gigantes]

It's not about you being foreign. I'm foreign, too. It's about knowing how the govt in your home country operates. Facts and reality stuff.

There's no need to continue this conversation if you assume me to be a china propaganda agent and already know everything.

Thanks for once again misrepresenting me. And no-- one hardly needs to be a "Wumao" in order to parrot nonsense. Lots of people do it everywhere, including the US, where it's reached a crisis point, in fact.

Here is the complete footage of the shooting if you want to see it.
https://youtu.be/GqdT7pEZUGE

Without context, it's hard to know what I'm looking at. Could you also supply some non-CCP influenced commentary / analysis on that?

Better yet, send as many non-CCP influenced links / analysis as you can breaking down the lawless nature of the protesters. Assuming they've been published for at least a few days, there should be a body of supporting evidence or counter-arguments as the case may be. I would like to sift through all that to get to the bottom of your claims.

At one time, I pledged to defend the life and liberty for all, not just the ones who agrees with me.

I would hope that any decent member of society feels the same way. Bravo.

[AndySF]

It's not about you being foreign. I'm foreign, too. It's about knowing how the govt in your home country operates. Facts and reality stuff.

There's no need to continue this conversation if you assume me to be a china propaganda agent and already know everything.

Thanks for once again misrepresenting me. And no-- one hardly needs to be a "Wumao" in order to parrot nonsense. Lots of people do it everywhere, including the US, where it's reached a crisis point, in fact.

Here is the complete footage of the shooting if you want to see it.
https://youtu.be/GqdT7pEZUGE

Without context, it's hard to know what I'm looking at. Could you also supply some non-CCP influenced commentary / analysis on that?

Better yet, send as many non-CCP influenced links / analysis as you can breaking down the lawless nature of the protesters. Assuming they've been published for at least a few days, there should be a body of supporting evidence or counter-arguments as the case may be. I would like to sift through all that to get to the bottom of your claims.

At one time, I pledged to defend the life and liberty for all, not just the ones who agrees with me.

I would hope that any decent member of society feels the same way. Bravo.

There's a reason why my original reply was to mr.$.

I think there's no need for further conversation.

[gigantes]

There's a reason why my original reply was to mr.$.

I think there's no need for further conversation.

Indeed.

Frankly, I think you'll have a much easier time talking to people who aren't very familiar with the HK situation. They'll be less able to tell facts & BS apart, and you'll be less likely to need to twist their words and ignore their counterpoints.

[AndySF]

There's a reason why my original reply was to mr.$.

I think there's no need for further conversation.

Indeed.

Frankly, I think you'll have a much easier time talking to people who aren't very familiar with the HK situation. They'll be less able to tell facts & BS apart, and you'll be less likely to need to twist their words and ignore their counterpoints.

I wasn't going to further this conversation with you, not because I was afraid of your cyberbullying, but because I don't want to waste time engaging someone with a closed mind and someone who have an agenda. I reply to mr$ because he debates with good faith. Debating you would be boring, since I can see where you are going and what's coming from a mile away.

Four years in the Navy had enabled me to understand the codes. New country, echo chamber, your home country, where you're from.

May I ask you what qualified you knowledgeable about Hong Kong but made me a bullshiter? It is people like you who knows what's best for other people, never mind that if that's what they want or need. Remember the Trump bots? The liberal elites? I have many relatives in Hong Kong that share those views and are afraid to say so in public. but hey, what do I know. I am not an expert like you and I don't want to force others to think like me. I don't go on to watch a video then hide the fact that I did.

So, the hundreds of thousands of Hong Kong people, whose livelihoods being destroyed, hundreds of businesses being vandalized, every public infrastructure a legitimate target is worth the sacrifice whether they want to or not. Because, it's what is good for them, they just don't know it. But, have jo fear, people like you know what is best for them. This is my last engagement with you. Out.