Mo Bamba + The Value of Centers Shooting 3s

[Knightro]

Through two preseason games, Mo Bamba is 4-9 from the three point line. The sample size is obviously tiny, but I wanted to dive a little deeper into a couple of 3PT shooting related topics.

1. The Positional Value of 3PT shooting.

Three point attempts are up dramatically around the league. 36% of all shots attempted now are three pointers with teams taking 32 of them per game.

The only position we haven't seen a dramatic across the board spike in 3PT attempts is at center.

Only 28 centers attempted at least one three pointer total in 18-19 and only 12 attempted at least 1 per game. There is a HUGE amount of positional value in a center willing who is A. willing to shoot and B. willing to shoot A LOT.

Bamba, to his credit, is on the right track already. He took 1.5 3PT attempts per game last year which was good for 8th best in the league out of centers. I'd personally like to see that number even higher this season. Any time he's open, he should just let it fly.

Obviously the most extreme example of this would be the Bucks with Brook Lopez. Lopez took 65% of his shots from beyond the arc last year. He had a 11.5 NETRTG for the season which ranked 4th best in the league. Brook is obviously not the 4th best player in the league, but his value to the Bucks overall as a whole was dramatic.

Why?

2. The Value of Wide Open 3PT shooting.

The most valuable shot in the league that isn't a dunk/layup is a wide open 3PT shot.

Last season, 85% of Mo Bamba's three point attempts were considered wide open (no defender within 6 feet). Only five players in the entire NBA - Baynes, Kaminsky, Collins, Horford and Gasol - had a higher percentage of their 3PT attempts wide open.

Going back to Lopez for a second. Despite the fact that he took 6.3 3PT shots per game, Brook was still wide open on 65% of those attempts.

NBA defenses are just not equipped or comfortable defending centers that shoot threes. Lopez let it fly as much as any player in the league and yet overwhelmingly had the most wide open attempts of all players at that level of attempts.

Based on the first two preseason games, it appears the Magic can get a wide open Bamba 3PT attempt off a simple 1-5 pick and roll set quite literally any possession they want. Fultz is a lot better than Grant was at creating space, but teams are simply going to concede that three point attempt from Bamba pretty much regardless of how well he shoots it all year.

It is absolutely critical that Mo Bamba have the 100% full green light to shoot threes when he's open (which he appears to have) and also that he develops his jumper to the point where he can make around 35% of his wide open shots.

Early returns are very good. Let's see if it can continue once the games start counting.

[UCFJayBird]

If he shoots like this, sure let it fly. my concern is if he's down in the 25-30% range it becomes a poor shot (if that's the % when open).

It's interesting that we now have two Centers who are capable of doing so though.

[Knightro]

If he shoots like this, sure let it fly. my concern is if he's down in the 25-30% range it becomes a poor shot (if that's the % when open).

It's interesting that we now have two Centers who are capable of doing so though.

Bamba shot 31% last year on wide open threes for what that's worth.

He doesn't really have to even be league average for the value to be there IMO. Just can't be horrible.

[PrimeThyme]

Good post. The interesting thing with Bamba is he really didn't get serious about shooting 3's until after his freshman season. He took about 1.7 attempts his one year in college, but it wasn't until during the predraft process and the summer leading up to his first year in the league that he and his trainer made 3pt shooting a focal point of his game and he has really made noticeable improvements. His shooting could be a huge weapon for us, because as weve already seen teams are going to leave him open for that shot. It would really open up the floor for Fultz and the rest of the second unit if he can consistently do it this season.

One of the reasons why I loved Bamba as a fit for this team is he has the perfect skillset for a modern-day 5. His rim protecting, shooting ability, rebounding ability, and length is a rare combination. When you consider his potential one day next to Isaac, AG, and Fultz its hard not to get incredibly excited.

I think the point Xatticus made in the game thread earlier about Bamba having made enough improvements this year to at least not kill us when he is on the floor is an important one. This kid needs minutes to develop, and as long as he can be a serviceable back up this year and not have us bleed points when he is on the floor I will see it as a win.

[fendilim]

I’d definitely love to see him mix it up downlow and use his length. But his range also helps our offense.

I just hope he doesnt fall in love to becoming someone like Frye or somebody who just floats outside.

[Knightro]

I’d definitely love to see him mix it up downlow and use his length. But his range also helps our offense.

I just hope he doesnt fall in love to becoming someone like Frye or somebody who just floats outside.

Obviously he should be worked in as a roll man/lob threat when the opportunities arise, but if Bamba can be even a 35% 3PT shooter, him camping out behind the 3PT line is almost assuredly going to be a more valuable use of his skill than anything that isn't a dunk or mostly uncontested layup inside the arc.

I wouldn't post him up under any circumstances at this point. He's not good at it.

[pepe1991]

Brook Lopez shot 3s for last 4 seasons.
For Nets he looked like garbage.
For Lakers he looked like garbage.
For Bucks he was cheat more and looked amazing.
For USA he was the biggest peace of trash i have seen at world cup , for USA in my life.

So it seems that having C shooting 3s is only valuable if you have team that shoots s*** loud of 3s and star who can take adventage of additional potential space.

For longest time i have zero desire to see defense defend Cs shooting 3s, they simply don't have enough volumen to beat you,especially in playoffs.
Now if you have C capable of shooting 40% for 3 whlie having enough volumen to make 4,5 threes evey game left wide open, now we have different story, but to this date, entering almost 2020, nba has never seen C capavble of doing that demage.

I don't mind Bamba, Vuc or anybody shooting 3s, but Cs happend to be always wide open for good reason and you probably always get better look than that.

Frye was 39% three point shooter, and if i'm not mistaking, he only was part of winning roster few times as bigger contributor, for Suns?
Your C in every era needs to be your rebounding ,defense and screen setting player first, than everything else. Imo there are more importants part of Bamba's game that he needs to focus on, and shooting is just bonus on that.

[Knightro]

Your C in every era needs to be your rebounding ,defense and screen setting player first, than everything else. Imo there are more importants part of Bamba's game that he needs to focus on, and shooting is just bonus on that.

I don't disagree that those three things are important, but literally none of the things you mentioned above would or should keep Bamba from being a shooting threat on the offensive end either.

Two of them don't really even have anything to do with offense and setting good screens is something that would directly help facilitate open jumpers.

[pepe1991]

Your C in every era needs to be your rebounding ,defense and screen setting player first, than everything else. Imo there are more importants part of Bamba's game that he needs to focus on, and shooting is just bonus on that.

I don't disagree that those three things are important, but literally none of the things you mentioned above would or should keep Bamba from being a shooting threat on the offensive end either.

Two of them don't really even have anything to do with offense and setting good screens is something that would directly help facilitate open jumpers.

I have to admit that i look shooting 3s C through a brook Lopez and i'm really,really not fan of his "new " game at all so i might be biased against centers camping on 3 point line.

I also don't like notion that my big will never have chance to get offensive rebound, like, ever. Lopez averaged 0,4 ORPG last year, Clint Capela 4,4 ,Deandre Jordan 3,4, Gobert 3,8, Drummon 5,4.
It would be interesting to see what is actually more vluable and brings more point, Lopez standing at 3 point line whole game long, or Gobert adding 4 additional possessions to his team. I would assume Gobert clogging paint ( not claiming, assuming, could be wrong).
But as i said above , to me big shooting 3s comes down to other players and how much they can expose additional driving lines. We saw for fact how terrible Lopez looked at world cup and how with less driving space due shorter court, nobody benefits from him. Matter of fact he was easly the worst C in whole tournament because he added no value on both ends, on one side he was terrible rebounder and terrible pick&roll defender, on other he was wasted possession.

[Knightro]

I have to admit that i look shooting 3s C through a brook Lopez and i'm really,really not fan of his "new " game at all so i might be biased against centers camping on 3 point line.

I also don't like notion that my big will never have chance to get offensive rebound, like, ever. Lopez averaged 0,4 ORPG last year, Clint Capela 4,4 ,Deandre Jordan 3,4, Gobert 3,8, Drummon 5,4.
It would be interesting to see what is actually more vluable and brings more point, Lopez standing at 3 point line whole game long, or Gobert adding 4 additional possessions to his team. I would assume Gobert clogging paint ( not claiming, assuming, could be wrong).
But as i said above , to me big shooting 3s comes down to other players and how much they can expose additional driving lines. We saw for fact how terrible Lopez looked at world cup and how with less driving space due shorter court, nobody benefits from him. Matter of fact he was easly the worst C in whole tournament because he added no value on both ends, on one side he was terrible rebounder and terrible pick&roll defender, on other he was wasted possession.

It's an interesting debate.

What's more valuable? Creating extra possessions for yourself and/or teammates via offensive rebounding or a combination of made threes at a 30-35% clip plus extra spacing for teammates driving to the basket?

One thing I would say is that as long as Steve Clifford is the coach of this team, I expect the Magic to rank towards the bottom in OREB%.

Clifford just does not preach crashing the offensive glass whatsoever. He's a huge proponent of not giving up transition/fast break points and pushing players towards the rim when a shot goes up can help lead to run outs the other way.

[J the Drafter]

The option to run a 1/5 pick and pop will improve the team’s offense, because that play will be one more thing defenses need to account for. This will mean those defenses are less prepared to shut down everything else. That’s how offense works, on both the individual and group level. More options improves the chance of an individual move or play being successful.

[SHAQ32]

I’d definitely love to see him mix it up downlow and use his length. But his range also helps our offense.

I just hope he doesnt fall in love to becoming someone like Frye or somebody who just floats outside.

He can never be compared to Channing Frye because he's a big time shotblocker.

[SHAQ32]

Brook Lopez shot 3s for last 4 seasons.
For Nets he looked like garbage.
For Lakers he looked like garbage.
For Bucks he was cheat more and looked amazing.
For USA he was the biggest peace of trash i have seen at world cup , for USA in my life.

So it seems that having C shooting 3s is only valuable if you have team that shoots s*** loud of 3s and star who can take adventage of additional potential space.

For longest time i have zero desire to see defense defend Cs shooting 3s, they simply don't have enough volumen to beat you,especially in playoffs.
Now if you have C capable of shooting 40% for 3 whlie having enough volumen to make 4,5 threes evey game left wide open, now we have different story, but to this date, entering almost 2020, nba has never seen C capavble of doing that demage.

I don't mind Bamba, Vuc or anybody shooting 3s, but Cs happend to be always wide open for good reason and you probably always get better look than that.

Frye was 39% three point shooter, and if i'm not mistaking, he only was part of winning roster few times as bigger contributor, for Suns?
Your C in every era needs to be your rebounding ,defense and screen setting player first, than everything else. Imo there are more importants part of Bamba's game that he needs to focus on, and shooting is just bonus on that.

Hopefully Markelle takes full advantage of that spacing effect.

[Bensational]

I have to admit that i look shooting 3s C through a brook Lopez and i'm really,really not fan of his "new " game at all so i might be biased against centers camping on 3 point line.

I also don't like notion that my big will never have chance to get offensive rebound, like, ever. Lopez averaged 0,4 ORPG last year, Clint Capela 4,4 ,Deandre Jordan 3,4, Gobert 3,8, Drummon 5,4.
It would be interesting to see what is actually more vluable and brings more point, Lopez standing at 3 point line whole game long, or Gobert adding 4 additional possessions to his team. I would assume Gobert clogging paint ( not claiming, assuming, could be wrong).
But as i said above , to me big shooting 3s comes down to other players and how much they can expose additional driving lines. We saw for fact how terrible Lopez looked at world cup and how with less driving space due shorter court, nobody benefits from him. Matter of fact he was easly the worst C in whole tournament because he added no value on both ends, on one side he was terrible rebounder and terrible pick&roll defender, on other he was wasted possession.

It's an interesting debate.

What's more valuable? Creating extra possessions for yourself and/or teammates via offensive rebounding or a combination of made threes at a 30-35% clip plus extra spacing for teammates driving to the basket?

One thing I would say is that as long as Steve Clifford is the coach of this team, I expect the Magic to rank towards the bottom in OREB%.

Clifford just does not preach crashing the offensive glass whatsoever. He's a huge proponent of not giving up transition/fast break points and pushing players towards the rim when a shot goes up can help lead to run outs the other way.

Lopez wasn't the only high volume 3pt shooting big, Gasol also provided a similar presence to space the paint on offense for the Raps, and we saw how successful that was for them, too.

The other bonus to having a big back on the 3pt line is that they're better equipped to get back on D in a fast break situation. And in the end, getting stops on defense is more valuable than getting an extra shot on offense.

Hopefully we can strike a balance where the likes of Isaac and Gordon are able to crash some o-boards when they're in position.

Overall, I'm down with C's shooting 3's if they don't look to have the skills of Embiid or Jokic, where they can break a defender down and create a play for themselves. Bamba doesn't look like that type at this point in his development, but hopefully he improves there. Meanwhile, if we can clear space for Fultz, AG, Isaac, etc to attack, then that's a huge bonus.

The one thing I do hope for, though, is that Vuc can get back to his mid range form of years past once we hit the playoffs. Those are the shots a defense will give you, and they're the shots that Kawhi and Durant use when the defense won't let you get to the rim or get a clean 3.

[Furinkazan]

He is starting to piss me off with that constantly camping at the 3 point line.Seems like last off-season report was true about the fact that the only thing he wants to do is to shoot 3s

[SOUL]

He is starting to piss me off with that constantly camping at the 3 point line.Seems like last off-season report was true about the fact that the only thing he wants to do is to shoot 3s

If he's hitting them, why get pissed off?

He's mixing it up a bit inside too. I would like him to obviously gain the strength to muscle it inside more, but we dealt with Vuc playing kind of soft inside for a bit. Once his body matures 3-4 years in the league, I think you'll see a player capable of doing both with relative ease, which would be nice.

[Furinkazan]

He is starting to piss me off with that constantly camping at the 3 point line.Seems like last off-season report was true about the fact that the only thing he wants to do is to shoot 3s

If he's hitting them, why get pissed off?

He's mixing it up a bit inside too. I would like him to obviously gain the strength to muscle it inside more, but we dealt with Vuc playing kind of soft inside for a bit. Once his body matures 3-4 years in the league, I think you'll see a player capable of doing both with relative ease, which would be nice.

I dont believe he will be able shoot at the decent percentage for long.I ofc think modern center should be able to hit 3 but all he seems to do is to camp that lane while he should maybe crash the offensive glass being so long,but nah he can’t because he is too busy Too far camping.Maybe I’m just expecting too much from him.

[basketballRob]

I don't think Orlando fans appreciate Bamba as much as fans from other teams. Listening to Greg Kelser after Bamba's first three last night, he just said, wow.

It's unique to have a guy that size that can shoot the three.



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[jayrehme]

I don't think Orlando fans appreciate Bamba as much as fans from other teams. Listening to Greg Kelser after Bamba's first three last night, he just said, wow.

It's unique to have a guy that size that can shoot the three.



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Bamba is a very intelligent guy. Being a 3point sniper at his size, will keep him in the league for a very long time... makes sense for him to make that his main focus, also easier on his body for the long run.

[basketballRob]

I don't think Orlando fans appreciate Bamba as much as fans from other teams. Listening to Greg Kelser after Bamba's first three last night, he just said, wow.

It's unique to have a guy that size that can shoot the three.



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Bamba is a very intelligent guy. Being a 3point sniper at his size, will keep him in the league for a very long time... makes sense for him to make that his main focus, also easier on his body for the long run.

I think he goes inside too. Analytics say dunks and three point shots are what you should shoot and that's what he does.

Same with Vuc the last couple of years. He's cut way down on the long two point shots.

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