Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

[Parliament10]

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Wow

Wait. What???
Stevens is committing early, huh?


OK. Now, do something about the Gordon Hayward bottleneck.

[Homerclease]

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Wow

Said this months ago. They need him to carry the offense on the second unit and provide experience along with Smart

[100proof]

Read on Twitter

Wow

Wait. What???
Stevens is committing early, huh?


OK. Now do something about the Gordon Hayward bottleneck.

I only makes sense.

You cannot start both Kanter and Kemba. 2 weak defenders at the 2 most important defensive positions on the floor.

IMO you have to start Smart and 1 of Williams or Poirier at Center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Poirier or Williams

and Hayward/ Kanter and rookies off the bench. Hayward solidifies the bench unit and is the first off the bench, Kanter is all offense and rebounds off the bench.

[Parliament10]

Read on Twitter

Wow

Wait. What???
Stevens is committing early, huh?


OK. Now do something about the Gordon Hayward bottleneck.

I only makes sense.

You cannot start both Kanter and Kemba. 2 weak defenders at the 2 most important defensive positions on the floor.

IMO you have to start Smart and 1 of Williams or Poirier at Center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Poirier or Williams

and Hayward/ Kanter and rookies off the bench. Hayward solidifies the bench unit and is the first off the bench, Kanter is all offense and rebounds off the bench.

Hmmm.
Hayward would be a really expensive Bench player (Déjà vu).

You might have somethign there, though.

[Slartibartfast]

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Wow

It's great in theory. Problem is our more defensive oriented big options aren't very compelling. Poirier is skinny and seems to be lacking in lateral quickness. RW3 lacks physicality and awareness on both ends. Theis is too small.

They will all at least contest shots, which is more than I can say for Kanter, but not sure if any of them are good enough even to spot start.

My guess is Theis will win out and become a 15mpg starter.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Smart/Edwards/Ojeleye/Grant/Kanter as a second unit seems like they could be really effective - great rebounding, good to great defense at three positions, a big who can get post buckets and a shot maker in Edwards.

[100proof]

Wait. What???
Stevens is committing early, huh?


OK. Now do something about the Gordon Hayward bottleneck.

I only makes sense.

You cannot start both Kanter and Kemba. 2 weak defenders at the 2 most important defensive positions on the floor.

IMO you have to start Smart and 1 of Williams or Poirier at Center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Poirier or Williams

and Hayward/ Kanter and rookies off the bench. Hayward solidifies the bench unit and is the first off the bench, Kanter is all offense and rebounds off the bench.

Hmmm.
Hayward would be a really expensive Bench player (Déjà vu).

You might have somethign there, though.

foolishly expensive but allows him to be able to play his game, he would have complete control over the bench unit and would be able to mold it into something of worth.

We all know what a healthy Gordon can do, so pairing him with a bunch of lacking players he can limit their weaknesses through leadership, craftiness, etc.

Edwards cannot playmake but can shoot, Gordon can cover for him there
Semi can defend but gets a little boneheaded, Gordon can coach him there\
Williams is green, gordon can help the transition and put him in a position to succeed
Kanter has poor defense and needs to get the ball, gordon cannot help the defense much, but can at least get him in scoring positions to help make up for lack of defense.


When you look at the bench as a whole, it would cost the team an average amount because of so many cheap pieces there. Sure gordon is expensive but Kanter is cheap, Semi is cheap, edwards is cheap, williams is cheap. So compare Celtics bench to Toronto's for example, and it is cheaper.

[Andrew McCeltic]

We don’t have anyone with the raw talent of Zion, Doncic, Ben Simmons, Donovan Mitchell, even Lonzo Ball. Tatum has some of it as a scorer, and he’s got the upside to become dominant eventually, like Giannis or Paul George, but right now he doesn’t have the ability to impact a game like those players, to take it over.

That is a really interesting point. Tatum scoring 24 ppg in a playoff series rout of Philly cannot impact a game......like Lonzo Ball.

I said he has some of that ability as a scorer, but he hasn’t done it consistently. He also hasn’t shown the ability to impact the game in multiple ways - I think it will happen when he gets stronger and is fully established as a scorer, because that’ll open the floor up for him.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Slow day, so here are some Javonte Green highlights from his season in Europe last year. What a monster athlete this kid is.

Watch on YouTube

[Bill Lumbergh]

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Wow

It's great in theory. Problem is our more defensive oriented big options aren't very compelling. Poirier is skinny and seems to be lacking in lateral quickness. RW3 lacks physicality and awareness on both ends. Theis is too small.

They will all at least contest shots, which is more than I can say for Kanter, but not sure if any of them are good enough even to spot start.

My guess is Theis will win out and become a 15mpg starter.

I thought Poirier moved his feet pretty well and cut off drives pretty well. Not much of a sample size, to be sure. There was a good article on CelticsBlog with some video that showcased Poirier defending a few plays, fwiw. Here it is:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/10/8/20903409/three-things-boston-celtics-vs-charlotte-hornets-kemba-walker-jaylen-brown-vincent-poirier

[100proof]

Read on Twitter

Wow

It's great in theory. Problem is our more defensive oriented big options aren't very compelling. Poirier is skinny and seems to be lacking in lateral quickness. RW3 lacks physicality and awareness on both ends. Theis is too small.

They will all at least contest shots, which is more than I can say for Kanter, but not sure if any of them are good enough even to spot start.

My guess is Theis will win out and become a 15mpg starter.

I thought Poirier moved his feet pretty well and cut off drives pretty well. Not much of a sample size, to be sure. There was a good article on CelticsBlog with some video that showcased Poirier defending a few plays, fwiw. Here it is:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/10/8/20903409/three-things-boston-celtics-vs-charlotte-hornets-kemba-walker-jaylen-brown-vincent-poirier

VP was a great addition IMO, and I firmly believe that the starting center position is his...he just needs to take it.

[Parliament10]

Read on Twitter

Wow

It's great in theory. Problem is our more defensive oriented big options aren't very compelling. Poirier is skinny and seems to be lacking in lateral quickness. RW3 lacks physicality and awareness on both ends. Theis is too small.

They will all at least contest shots, which is more than I can say for Kanter, but not sure if any of them are good enough even to spot start.

My guess is Theis will win out and become a 15mpg starter.

I thought Poirier moved his feet pretty well and cut off drives pretty well. Not much of a sample size, to be sure. There was a good article on CelticsBlog with some video that showcased Poirier defending a few plays, fwiw. Here it is:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/10/8/20903409/three-things-boston-celtics-vs-charlotte-hornets-kemba-walker-jaylen-brown-vincent-poirier

What about this Rotation?

2019-20 Tentative Roster
Kemba - Smart - Tatum - Theis - R. Williams
Edwards - Brown - Hayward - G. Williams - Kanter

Wanamaker - Langford - Ojeleye - Poirier - (Fall)
Two-Ways = Strus; Waters

[Andrew McCeltic]

I don’t think I’m overreacting.. Danny held onto Brown and Tatum with the hope of trading one or both for Anthony Davis, who would join Kyrie, Horford, Hayward, probably Morris, Baynes and Rozier. He passed on or missed out on Jimmy Butler, Paul George, and Kawhi because he didn’t want to give up Jaylen or Jayson.

If he hadn’t been waiting for a pitch to hit out of the park, I think we’d either have more veteran talent or more/better young talent right now.

Obviously Kemba and Hayward are good vets to have, but Orlando has Vucevic, New Orleans has Favors and Reddick.. And both those teams are more loaded with maturing young talent than we are. Chicago, too, except their guys are more raw.

I think that Danny held onto Brown and especially Tatum, cause that was the Plan all along, iff (if, and only if) Anthony Davis didn't commit to us long-term.

Maybe.. I wonder what he would’ve planned if Davis had never been a possibility..

I think the plan is to have this be a developmental year, but with a higher ceiling - a little like the Gary Payton/Antoine season. Brown and Tatum have definitely played in meaningful games, but they’ve never had the opportunity to shoulder more responsibility on offense, with more freedom, and I think they will - especially if Kanter isn’t in the starting lineup competing for shots. We also have four or five rookies on the roster, some of them are going to get minutes almost by default.

If Brown or Tatum blows up, and the right trades materialize, we could be a top 4 seed.. Milwaukee, Philly and Indiana have more continuity and more established young players - I have us now in the next tier, with Orlando and Brooklyn, maybe Detroit if they finally have health and chemistry, Miami if Butler is that much better than Richardson. Chicago could sneak into the eighth seed if they gel, or Charlotte if they have a scrappy uptempo Doc-in-Orlando year with Scary Terry. Atlanta, too. But we’ll be in the 4-7 battle unless something goes really right or really wrong.

[Celts17Pride]

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Wow

Said this months ago. They need him to carry the offense on the second unit and provide experience along with Smart

No problem with Kanter on the bench but if Stevens is going to start Walker, Brown, Tatum, Hayward and a big it's going to be an epic fail.

The sooner Stevens realizes this the better the Celtics will be this season.

[Bill Lumbergh]

It's great in theory. Problem is our more defensive oriented big options aren't very compelling. Poirier is skinny and seems to be lacking in lateral quickness. RW3 lacks physicality and awareness on both ends. Theis is too small.

They will all at least contest shots, which is more than I can say for Kanter, but not sure if any of them are good enough even to spot start.

My guess is Theis will win out and become a 15mpg starter.

I thought Poirier moved his feet pretty well and cut off drives pretty well. Not much of a sample size, to be sure. There was a good article on CelticsBlog with some video that showcased Poirier defending a few plays, fwiw. Here it is:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/10/8/20903409/three-things-boston-celtics-vs-charlotte-hornets-kemba-walker-jaylen-brown-vincent-poirier

What about this Rotation?

2019-20 Tentative Roster
Kemba - Smart - Tatum - Theis - R. Williams
Edwards - Brown - Hayward - G. Williams - Kanter

Wanamaker - Langford - Ojeleye - Poirier - (Fall)
Two-Ways = Strus; Waters

It's interesting, for sure. I think Hayward won't have an issue coming off the bench (he'll probably be on the floor to close out games.) Brad's got an interesting job this year. This is a big year for Brad. So far, every year but last year, his teams seemed to outperform expectations. I have a feeling Brown will be traded in season. I'd like to dump Strus and sign Green to a 2 way. (Yeah, I know, that answer was all over the place.)

[31to6]

Like you guys have never overreacted. Give me a break.

For context the 'plastic people' were the ones who doubted when we had KG and PP.
That was a very different situation than a Kemba/Hayward/Kanter veteran core.

This is where all the canaries in the coal mine pass out.

THAT is exactly what it is. I mean it's like I kind of cruised through a busy summer and came to and realized I'm rooting for a Kemba/Hayward/Kanter team. I mean, I'll always love the Celtics -- but that's the Celtics? Plus Tatum and Brown and a bunch of guys who I like -- but by this point it's fair to say this rebuild has ended up a bit below where I was hoping it would end up.

Hayward's injury, Kyrie's psychology, AD's cluster **** (including the **** Rose Rule!), the LAL pick turning into the SAC pick turning into the 14th pick -- last year, still, I thought we were as well set up as any team could hope to be. Now? We'll hopefully be scrappy and fun to root for and hopefully guys'll develop and be greater than the sum of their parts, but I don't fault Andrew at all for looking at those parts and being like "wait a minute".

Hope JT and JB light it up this year but I'd like their chances better if they had the ball more.

[Darth Celtic]

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Wow

Meaning Rob W. will be the starter? Even with his inexperience he’s probably better than Kanter already on defense..

He can block more shots. He didn't look any better at team defense than Kanter last game sadly. He is a project. I am Not sure he should start. Start Tacko..... Or Maybe Theis.

[Dannyboy36]

Wait. What???
Stevens is committing early, huh?


OK. Now do something about the Gordon Hayward bottleneck.

I only makes sense.

You cannot start both Kanter and Kemba. 2 weak defenders at the 2 most important defensive positions on the floor.

IMO you have to start Smart and 1 of Williams or Poirier at Center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Poirier or Williams

and Hayward/ Kanter and rookies off the bench. Hayward solidifies the bench unit and is the first off the bench, Kanter is all offense and rebounds off the bench.

Hmmm.
Hayward would be a really expensive Bench player (Déjà vu).

You might have somethign there, though.

I think Hayward MAY walk for nothing in this scenario. I don’t think it would necessarily tick him off but he could either be the #3 guy on a contender or he could be the #1 on a bad team and have the ball in his hands a ton. Could see both of those scenarios being more attractive than this set up.

[100proof]

I only makes sense.

You cannot start both Kanter and Kemba. 2 weak defenders at the 2 most important defensive positions on the floor.

IMO you have to start Smart and 1 of Williams or Poirier at Center.

Kemba
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Poirier or Williams

and Hayward/ Kanter and rookies off the bench. Hayward solidifies the bench unit and is the first off the bench, Kanter is all offense and rebounds off the bench.

Hmmm.
Hayward would be a really expensive Bench player (Déjà vu).

You might have somethign there, though.

I think Hayward MAY walk for nothing in this scenario. I don’t think it would necessarily tick him off but he could either be the #3 guy on a contender or he could be the #1 on a bad team and have the ball in his hands a ton. Could see both of those scenarios being more attractive than this set up.

who cares.

The future of the team is not in Haywards hands.

He can perform, raise his value and ask for a trade.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Interesting comment from Hayward here (https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/elbow-scare-only-concern-gordon-hayward-lives-offseason-hype):

Later in the first quarter, Hayward picked off a pass and streaked in for a layup. He wore a big smile after the play — not because of the athleticism he displayed in jumping the passing lane and breaking out alone, but because he didn’t have the energy to dunk the ball.

“Still gotta get my legs underneath me. I would have normally dunked the one on the fast break but I was way too tired,” said Hayward. "I’m going to have to improve that. It was certainly good to get out there and make some explosive moves to the basket.”

Do we buy it?

I dont.