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Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread

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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#461 » by logical_art » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:08 pm

Ice Man wrote:
Proven_Winner wrote:
JohnnyKILLroy wrote:Chicken Littles everywhere.


Yea starting to feel like another lurker year. Bulls fans are definitely some of the fiercest and critical towards our own.


We'll be nicer when we have a team that wins more than 20-something games.


And an owner who doesn't limit his aspirations to second place.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#462 » by VolumePoster » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:20 pm

DuckIII wrote:
logical_art wrote:I'm still not sold on Coby White. He's not really a PG yet (loose handle, shoot first mentality) and he compounds his short arms with a low release and with a propensity to finish with two hands at about head level.

I do appreciate his effort and I think his speed and strength are legit.


He looked like what I suspect he is going to be. 6th man role player type.

Lots of time left in his Bulls career to show otherwise. And I like his D.


I’ve felt similarly since the draft.

That’s a good role for him, fills a need, and would be a successful draft pick.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#463 » by Indomitable » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:24 pm

Proven_Winner wrote:
JohnnyKILLroy wrote:Chicken Littles everywhere.


Yea starting to feel like another lurker year. Bulls fans are definitely some of the fiercest and critical towards our own.

Yeah but it is ridiculous. It one game against an established team. Give it 5 games.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#464 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:26 pm

Indomitable wrote:
Proven_Winner wrote:
JohnnyKILLroy wrote:Chicken Littles everywhere.


Yea starting to feel like another lurker year. Bulls fans are definitely some of the fiercest and critical towards our own.

Yeah but it is ridiculous. It one game against an established team. Give it 5 games.


Give it 20 if they’re healthy games.

So many new pieces and for **** sake I hope we’re healthy to see what we really have.
What is happiness? It's a moment before you need more happiness.” — Don Draper
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#465 » by Indomitable » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:32 pm

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
Proven_Winner wrote:
Yea starting to feel like another lurker year. Bulls fans are definitely some of the fiercest and critical towards our own.

Yeah but it is ridiculous. It one game against an established team. Give it 5 games.


Give it 20 if they’re healthy games.

So many new pieces and for **** sake I hope we’re healthy to see what we really have.

I am talking about regular season games. This overreaction to a pre season game.

Now White should get half a season. Give it more then one pre season game.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#466 » by transplant » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:34 pm

It was the first preseason game and a pretty meh performance by the Bulls. No one who is critical to the Bulls being competitive performed in a way that thrilled me or scared me. It was good to see Valentine look functional. White plays really fast and you can’t teach that. Gafford looks like he’ll be fun in limited minutes.

It was an ok performance.


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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#467 » by logical_art » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:35 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
logical_art wrote:I'm still not sold on Coby White. He's not really a PG yet (loose handle, shoot first mentality) and he compounds his short arms with a low release and with a propensity to finish with two hands at about head level.

I do appreciate his effort and I think his speed and strength are legit.


He looked like what I suspect he is going to be. 6th man role player type.

Lots of time left in his Bulls career to show otherwise. And I like his D.


I’ve felt similarly since the draft.

That’s a good role for him, fills a need, and would be a successful draft pick.


I think you want your 7th pick to be better than a bench player, unless we're talking 6th man of the year caliber bench player.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#468 » by nomorezorro » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:41 pm

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:Chicken Littles everywhere.


i generally think of myself as tilting toward pessimistic, but jesus there is an incredible amount of negative overreactions to one preseason game going on here

the entire point of training camp is to get players accustomed to the system they're going to be playing in for the next season. training camp began, like, a week ago. we're working a bunch of new players into the rotation, a handful of guys are hurt, it's an exhibition game. there is precious little of value to glean from what happened yesterday. we won't have much to go on after one regular season game. i cannot understand freaking out about the preseason opener.

and like, in general i don't get the point of following a professional sports team if you're not willing to entertain the notion there might be some good parts of the experience at the outset of a new season.
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#469 » by DuckIII » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:03 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
logical_art wrote:I'm still not sold on Coby White. He's not really a PG yet (loose handle, shoot first mentality) and he compounds his short arms with a low release and with a propensity to finish with two hands at about head level.

I do appreciate his effort and I think his speed and strength are legit.


He looked like what I suspect he is going to be. 6th man role player type.

Lots of time left in his Bulls career to show otherwise. And I like his D.


I’ve felt similarly since the draft.

That’s a good role for him, fills a need, and would be a successful draft pick.


I agree it would be a good role for him. I disagree that reserve combo guard - if he becomes that - is a “successful” use of a #7 pick as a general matter. It’s not a blown pick, but that’s not a noteworthy result.

Generally though. Specific to this draft it could be “successful” if most everyone taken after him does even less.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#470 » by logical_art » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:13 pm

nomorezorro wrote:
JohnnyKILLroy wrote:Chicken Littles everywhere.


i generally think of myself as tilting toward pessimistic, but jesus there is an incredible amount of negative overreactions to one preseason game going on here

the entire point of training camp is to get players accustomed to the system they're going to be playing in for the next season. training camp began, like, a week ago. we're working a bunch of new players into the rotation, a handful of guys are hurt, it's an exhibition game. there is precious little of value to glean from what happened yesterday. we won't have much to go on after one regular season game. i cannot understand freaking out about the preseason opener.

and like, in general i don't get the point of following a professional sports team if you're not willing to entertain the notion there might be some good parts of the experience at the outset of a new season.


I don't understand your complaint. People are making positive and negative observations based on one preseason game. Should we refrain from all observations because its premature? Or only all negative ones? What is there then to talk about before the end of the season when everything is known with certainty?
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#471 » by SfBull » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:18 pm

ZOMG wrote:
madvillian wrote:
ZOMG wrote:Grab a helmet everybody, here comes some more overreaction!!

OK. Where do I start? Maybe with the fact that this team looked f***ing horrible. I mean... literally everybody seemed to be the exact same player as last season. If this remains true, it's extremely disappointing after all the big talk.

...

Zach didn't move the needle at all. He was OK when he was creating for others but took way too many awful shots early in the shot clock. He too seems to be the exact same player as last season. GRADE: B


I really hope you aren't serious with this spicy of a take on a preseason game. And just stop with the Lauri frozen out BS. If anything it looked like Lauri still doesn't have the handle to initiate his own offense and was easily turned away from attacking when he tried to move off the three point line.

As for the rest of your analysis the games don't count and guys like Thad, Zach, Otto and even Lauri have zero to prove and every incentive to stay healthy by not going balls to the wall in a exhibition game.


Unlike this team, I’m bringing my A game right from the start!

I agree with you about Lauri. If you’d read what I wrote more carefully, you’d have noticed that. Anyway, to repeat: I’m disapponted by the fact that he doesn’t seem to have added anything to his game.

However, our ball movement still sucks and Markkanen still seems to be used as a pick and pop robot. He doesn’t really figure into the dribble-heavy offense unless a PnP is imminent.

For me the best quote from your post was about Gafford showing an attacking attitude facing the rim that we didn't exactly watch from Wendell last season. Carter had this game playing for Duke and was very timid on his rookie season.There is a great potential for improvement here,we can alternate 2 centers with an attacking first attitude and playing like that they can draw more fouls eventually acting as facilitators for open 3's by Zach,Lauri or Porter.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#472 » by sco » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:22 pm

DuckIII wrote:
VolumePoster wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
He looked like what I suspect he is going to be. 6th man role player type.

Lots of time left in his Bulls career to show otherwise. And I like his D.


I’ve felt similarly since the draft.

That’s a good role for him, fills a need, and would be a successful draft pick.


I agree it would be a good role for him. I disagree that reserve combo guard - if he becomes that - is a “successful” use of a #7 pick as a general matter. It’s not a blown pick, but that’s not a noteworthy result.

Generally though. Specific to this draft it could be “successful” if most everyone taken after him does even less.

It worked for Harden in OKC.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#473 » by MrSparkle » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:28 pm

We’re so far into this “Fire GarPax” thing that it’s beyond stale, but again, for perspective, we lost 60 games last year.

If their big pickup was a 6th man, then that’s the same as their big FA pickups (Thad and Sato).

And frankly Zach and Lauri are fringe 6th man, atleast on an elite team they’d probably not be starting unless they were 3rd/4th options.

So are we a team of 6th men? I seriously need to see Coby run with starters. It’s going to be painful if he’s averaging 15 mpg and DNPs into January. Painful.

Just dump Dunn already.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#474 » by MrSparkle » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:29 pm

sco wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
VolumePoster wrote:
I’ve felt similarly since the draft.

That’s a good role for him, fills a need, and would be a successful draft pick.


I agree it would be a good role for him. I disagree that reserve combo guard - if he becomes that - is a “successful” use of a #7 pick as a general matter. It’s not a blown pick, but that’s not a noteworthy result.

Generally though. Specific to this draft it could be “successful” if most everyone taken after him does even less.

It worked for Harden in OKC.


It didn’t really. Caused OKC to miscalculate his worth by limiting his role and Harden embraced the move for a starting role.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#475 » by nomorezorro » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:43 pm

logical_art wrote:I don't understand your complaint. People are making positive and negative observations based on one preseason game. Should we refrain from all observations because its premature? Or only all negative ones? What is there then to talk about before the end of the season when everything is known with certainty?


there's a difference between "the defense looked bad" and "nobody on this team has improved and we're definitely going to miss the playoffs." there are a lot of posts that are much closer to the latter

honestly the positive thoughts are probably more or less worthless too. if we blew out the bucks and everyone was like "this team is definitely going to win 50 games" i think i would also find that strange. any observations in either direction based on this game mean very little.
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#476 » by SfBull » Tue Oct 8, 2019 8:57 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
logical_art wrote:I'm still not sold on Coby White. He's not really a PG yet (loose handle, shoot first mentality) and he compounds his short arms with a low release and with a propensity to finish with two hands at about head level.

I do appreciate his effort and I think his speed and strength are legit.


He looked like what I suspect he is going to be. 6th man role player type.

Lots of time left in his Bulls career to show otherwise. And I like his D.


I’ve felt similarly since the draft.

That’s a good role for him, fills a need, and would be a successful draft pick.

As expected and we'll look for a starter point next draft.Let's begin our fan scouting work!
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#477 » by SfBull » Tue Oct 8, 2019 9:00 pm

logical_art wrote:
Ice Man wrote:
Proven_Winner wrote:
Yea starting to feel like another lurker year. Bulls fans are definitely some of the fiercest and critical towards our own.


We'll be nicer when we
have a team that wins more than 20-something games.


And an owner who doesn't limit his aspirations to second place.[/quote
Bulls fans being that critical the best part of this forum for me.Always learning a lot about basketball here.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#478 » by SfBull » Tue Oct 8, 2019 9:12 pm

ZOMG wrote:
logical_art wrote:I'm still not sold on Coby White. He's not really a PG yet (loose handle, shoot first mentality) and he compounds his short arms with a low release and with a propensity to finish with two hands at about head level.

I do appreciate his effort and I think his speed and strength are legit.


He’s a blur, but at the NBA level, that’s not enough anymore. He has to learn how to shoot or his pro career will be short.

You need to be a playmaking savant like Rubio to be able to get by without a dependable shot. And even he’s bouncing from team to team.

White seems like a nice kid, but sometimes I wake up at night, screaming, because we drafted him at #7.

Did we have better options for point? We'll see but his pick seemed to be a reasonable option last draft as we knew the best point prospects were gone by 7.But I believe we'll have a best chance at the next supposedly guard loaded draft.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#479 » by SfBull » Tue Oct 8, 2019 9:17 pm

logical_art wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
logical_art wrote:I'm still not sold on Coby White. He's not really a PG yet (loose handle, shoot first mentality) and he compounds his short arms with a low release and with a propensity to finish with two hands at about head level.

I do appreciate his effort and I think his speed and strength are legit.


He’s a blur, but at the NBA level, that’s not enough anymore. He has to learn how to shoot or his pro career will be short.

You need to be a playmaking savant like Rubio to be able to get by without a dependable shot. And even he’s bouncing from team to team.


I think he can shoot fine. He did in college and his release looks smooth, just too low.

But I don't think he's got PG instincts or handle yet, and I worry about his finishing ability.

Right now I see bench combo guard spark, but his want to and the fact that its game one of his first preseason makes that prediction liable to error.

Right now I see Dunn starting for the Bulls as we didn't really got a legit point but a potentially good combo.But at the same time we didn't have cap for splashing a big free agent like Kemba in the free agency so be it.I guess we'll have to be used with the fact that our backcourt isn't improved as some of us ( including me) expected.
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Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#480 » by SfBull » Tue Oct 8, 2019 9:22 pm

madvillian wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
madvillian wrote:
I really hope you aren't serious with this spicy of a take on a preseason game. And just stop with the Lauri frozen out BS. If anything it looked like Lauri still doesn't have the handle to initiate his own offense and was easily turned away from attacking when he tried to move off the three point line.

As for the rest of your analysis the games don't count and guys like Thad, Zach, Otto and even Lauri have zero to prove and every incentive to stay healthy by not going balls to the wall in a exhibition game.


Unlike this team, I’m bringing my A game right from the start!

I agree with you about Lauri. If you’d read what I wrote more carefully, you’d have noticed that. Anyway, to repeat: I’m disapponted by the fact that he doesn’t seem to have added anything to his game.

However, our ball movement still sucks and Markkanen still seems to be used as a pick and pop robot. He doesn’t really figure into the dribble-heavy offense unless a PnP is imminent.


Well at least you have a sense of humor about it.

I think there are some things to be concerned about after the game but they are on a team, not individual level for me.

1) Can the team actually shoot threes at a high enough percentage (say 36% as a team) to move into top 15 offensive efficiency? They shot 34.9% last year. A 1.1% boost should be doable but we'll see.

2) Where is the bench defense? With WCJR healthy, Porter and Santo/Dunn the starting lineup should be about average defensively. But when they go to the bench with guys like Val, Kornet, White and Gafford how's it going to be? If last night is a preview it will be really bad.

OU is 34 wins in vegas. That seems about right if they stay healthy maybe 40, if not, maybe 30.

And finally, on Lauri: I hope he's just taking it slowly because he didn't look great last night, physically or skills wise. I thought he shot looked a little smoother FWIW>

Our defense was owned by Bucks' 2nd and 3rd stringers .This should be worrying even in a preseason game,lots of work awaiting Boylen and his assistants.

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