China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion...

[Big Lob]

Seems like the only people who won't bow to the China authoritarians is Southpark

[spikeslovechild]

Their goal is a free and independent Hong Kong I don't understand what so difficult to understand about it.

Yeah if that's the goal like I said there's no moral side to pick and as someone on the outside I don't think it's my place to take a side. European colonialism vs Chinese authoritarianism. I'm leaving that alone.

No side to pick?

SIDE 1 - Hong Kong - Their people have enjoyed freedoms and a democratic state. They are seeking reassurances that this model will continue.

SIDE 2 - China - They will acquire control over Hong Kong and have provided no such assurances.. quite the opposite. Thus, the plan seems to be to convert Hong Kong from a democratic state to a communist state, roll back their freedoms, etc.

REACTIONS - The people within Hong Kong are very upset and scared. China doesn't care and will resort to violence.

I side with the people that want freedom over the government that's demanding them to accept it or face death.

I fail to see how any of this has to do with "European colonialism" it's a depreciated concept and just Chinese propaganda to justify their authoritarian regime. The CCP is using that deep rooted historical resentment I mean don't get me wrong I get the history but it really has nothing to do with the here and now. It would be like a leader saying we can't do a trade deal with Germany because of Hitler. Like what?

If you polled Hong Kong they overwhelmingly would prefer to be free but second to that would be the kind of arrangement they had with the British where they had pretty much complete autonomy and became a colony in exchange for security guarantees. They know they will never get that with China who will stop at nothing to destroy their distinctiveness and assimilate them into the mainland.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/28/hongkongers-identifying-chinese-record-low-10-youth-proud-citizens-poll/

[NBAFan93]

All seems so hostile why is the league risking even playing over there? Take a hit and bring the players back home

Yeah - I hope the players are safe.

[durden_tyler]

All seems so hostile why is the league risking even playing over there? Take a hit and bring the players back home

Yeah - I hope the players are safe.

i hope the Chinese do something stupid so they are exposed as the very thing everyone is accusing them of.

[carlquincy]

That's a bold statement by Silver. I can see a biopic of this event happening 10 years down the road.

[CptCrunch]

I fail to see how any of this has to do with "European colonialism" it's a depreciated concept and just Chinese propaganda to justify their authoritarian regime. The CCP is using that deep rooted historical resentment I mean don't get me wrong I get the history but it really has nothing to do with the here and now. It would be like a leader saying we can't do a trade deal with Germany because of Hitler. Like what?

Chinese culture as shaped by the CPP has zero tolerance for Western attempts at interfering in Chinese sovereignty affairs.

Your analogy is wrong, it is similar to the German sensitivity to Nazism, banning it practically outright even though Neo-Nazism is protected under free speech in all other Western countries, America included. Joe Tsai's post touched upon the historical aspect of this from a Chinese nationalist point of view if you want to read about it.

If you polled Hong Kong they overwhelmingly would prefer to be free but second to that would be the kind of arrangement they had with the British where they had pretty much complete autonomy and became a colony in exchange for security guarantees. They know they will never get that with China who will stop at nothing to destroy their distinctiveness and assimilate them into the mainland.

This is blatantly wrong. Hong Kong did not 'become a colony in exchange for security guarantees'. Hong Kong was ceded to the British for 99 years by the Qing Dynasty as part of the Treaty of Nanking that ended the first Opium War, fought over British's attempts at shipping Bengali grown Opium to China. Opium at that point was completely destroying China internally. British had everyone hooked, and the Qing government was powerless to stop the drug dealing foe. This marked the first of a series of 'unequal treaties' midst the 'century of humiliation'. The Chinese 'nation' has historically been the most powerful if not the most powerful for the first 1600 years of the common era. The Industrial Revolution in the West marked the relative decline of the Chinese empire and start of the Century of Humiliation, which is a characterization accepted by both the CPP and the Taiwanese KMT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation). This notion that the Western interference and colonialism contributed to the century of humiliation is not wholly without merit, and basically elucidate the current sensitivity of the concept of Chinese sovereignty and the ballistic over-reaction to a tweet from a NBA GM.

The first point is also blatantly wrong. Hong Kong never had 'complete autonomy' British rule. In fact, Hong Kong never even had Democracy under British rule. A British appointed governor has unilateral absolute powers over the colony for 97 out of 99 years of its colonial history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong_Kong). The British colonial governor brutally cracked down on all protests and riots, leaving hundreds dead throughout the decades (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1956_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1966_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1967_leftist_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1981_riots)

The People of Hong Kong deserve freedoms like all people on the planet, but we really need to stop the narrative that Hong Kong was free and Democratic under British rule (free in terms of unchecked capitalism yes, other aspects absolutely not).

[spikeslovechild]

I fail to see how any of this has to do with "European colonialism" it's a depreciated concept and just Chinese propaganda to justify their authoritarian regime. The CCP is using that deep rooted historical resentment I mean don't get me wrong I get the history but it really has nothing to do with the here and now. It would be like a leader saying we can't do a trade deal with Germany because of Hitler. Like what?

[b]Chinese culture as shaped by the CPP has zero tolerance for Western attempts at interfering in Chinese sovereignty affairs.
[/b]
Your analogy is wrong, it is similar to the German sensitivity to Nazism, banning it practically outright even though Neo-Nazism is protected under free speech in all other Western countries, America included. Joe Tsai's post touched upon the historical aspect of this from a Chinese nationalist point of view if you want to read about it.

If you polled Hong Kong they overwhelmingly would prefer to be free but second to that would be the kind of arrangement they had with the British where they had pretty much complete autonomy and became a colony in exchange for security guarantees. They know they will never get that with China who will stop at nothing to destroy their distinctiveness and assimilate them into the mainland.

This is blatantly wrong. Hong Kong did not 'become a colony in exchange for security guarantees'. Hong Kong was ceded to the British for 99 years by the Qing Dynasty as part of the Treaty of Nanking that ended the first Opium War, fought over British's attempts at shipping Bengali grown Opium to China. Opium at that point was completely destroying China internally. British had everyone hooked, and the Qing government was powerless to stop the drug dealing foe. This marked the first of a series of 'unequal treaties' midst the 'century of humiliation'. The Chinese 'nation' has historically been the most powerful if not the most powerful for the first 1600 years of the common era. The Industrial Revolution in the West marked the relative decline of the Chinese empire and start of the Century of Humiliation, which is a characterization accepted by both the CPP and the Taiwanese KMT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation). This notion that the Western interference and colonialism contributed to the century of humiliation is not wholly without merit, and basically elucidate the current sensitivity of the concept of Chinese sovereignty and the ballistic over-reaction to a tweet from a NBA GM.

The first point is also blatantly wrong. Hong Kong never had 'complete autonomy' British rule. In fact, Hong Kong never even had Democracy under British rule. A British appointed governor has unilateral absolute powers over the colony for 97 out of 99 years of its colonial history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong_Kong). The British colonial governor brutally cracked down on all protests and riots, leaving hundreds dead throughout the decades (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1956_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1966_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1967_leftist_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1981_riots)

1. Hong Kong is not China and hasn't been since the time of the Persian empire (1842) the Chinese maybe consider it part of the mainland but the people of Hong Kong don't. China has a huge military and with that might makes right without it Hong Kong would have declared it's independence long ago like Taiwan they at best tolerate being "officially" part of China

2. Once again you are resorting way back to make your claims about British rule. When David Ford died well wishes came across from all over hong kong including from lam herself. What do you think the reaction will be in Hong Kong when Lam dies?

The threat of the threat of he Chinese is one of the reasons why the British stayed as long as they did. They knew as soon as they left it would be immediately swallowed up by the Chinese when the lease expired knowing they could not defend Hong Kong they returned it back to the Chinese. If it were any other country they'd have been allowed a referendum to determine their own future rather then be forced to join a rejoin a country from a century old treaty.

3. You are going back 60-70 years to make your point. The British have a long history and with that there is good and bad that includes not only Hong Kong but Ireland, the Falklands, and Scotland. However, there isn't any of one them that would choose to live under Chinese rule to that of the U.K. and neither would Hong Kong if given the choice.

The legacy of the so called imperialist British ""one country, two systems" is the only thing affording the people of Hong Kong the kind of basic freedom they currently enjoy and it's that very basic freedom that is currently under attack by the CCP

[CptCrunch]

I fail to see how any of this has to do with "European colonialism" it's a depreciated concept and just Chinese propaganda to justify their authoritarian regime. The CCP is using that deep rooted historical resentment I mean don't get me wrong I get the history but it really has nothing to do with the here and now. It would be like a leader saying we can't do a trade deal with Germany because of Hitler. Like what?

[b]Chinese culture as shaped by the CPP has zero tolerance for Western attempts at interfering in Chinese sovereignty affairs.
[/b]
Your analogy is wrong, it is similar to the German sensitivity to Nazism, banning it practically outright even though Neo-Nazism is protected under free speech in all other Western countries, America included. Joe Tsai's post touched upon the historical aspect of this from a Chinese nationalist point of view if you want to read about it.

If you polled Hong Kong they overwhelmingly would prefer to be free but second to that would be the kind of arrangement they had with the British where they had pretty much complete autonomy and became a colony in exchange for security guarantees. They know they will never get that with China who will stop at nothing to destroy their distinctiveness and assimilate them into the mainland.

This is blatantly wrong. Hong Kong did not 'become a colony in exchange for security guarantees'. Hong Kong was ceded to the British for 99 years by the Qing Dynasty as part of the Treaty of Nanking that ended the first Opium War, fought over British's attempts at shipping Bengali grown Opium to China. Opium at that point was completely destroying China internally. British had everyone hooked, and the Qing government was powerless to stop the drug dealing foe. This marked the first of a series of 'unequal treaties' midst the 'century of humiliation'. The Chinese 'nation' has historically been the most powerful if not the most powerful for the first 1600 years of the common era. The Industrial Revolution in the West marked the relative decline of the Chinese empire and start of the Century of Humiliation, which is a characterization accepted by both the CPP and the Taiwanese KMT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation). This notion that the Western interference and colonialism contributed to the century of humiliation is not wholly without merit, and basically elucidate the current sensitivity of the concept of Chinese sovereignty and the ballistic over-reaction to a tweet from a NBA GM.

The first point is also blatantly wrong. Hong Kong never had 'complete autonomy' British rule. In fact, Hong Kong never even had Democracy under British rule. A British appointed governor has unilateral absolute powers over the colony for 97 out of 99 years of its colonial history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Hong_Kong). The British colonial governor brutally cracked down on all protests and riots, leaving hundreds dead throughout the decades (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1956_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1966_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1967_leftist_riots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1981_riots)

1. Hong Kong is not China and hasn't been since the time of the Persian empire (1842) the Chinese maybe consider it part of the mainland but the people of Hong Kong don't. China has a huge military and with that might makes right without it Hong Kong would have declared it's independence long ago like Taiwan they at best tolerate being "officially" part of China

2. Once again you are resorting way back to make your claims about British rule. When David Ford died well wishes came across from all over hong kong including from lam herself. What do you think the reaction will be in Hong Kong when Lam dies?

The threat of the threat of he Chinese is one of the reasons why the British stayed as long as they did. They knew as soon as they left it would be immediately swallowed up by the Chinese when the lease expired knowing they could not defend Hong Kong they returned it back to the Chinese. If it were any other country they'd have been allowed a referendum to determine their own future rather then be forced to join a rejoin a country from a century old treaty.

3. You are going back 60-70 years to make your point. The British have a long history and with that there is good and bad that includes not only Hong Kong but Ireland, the Falklands, and Scotland. However, there isn't any of one them that would choose to live under Chinese rule to that of the U.K. and neither would Hong Kong if given the choice.

The legacy of the so called imperialist British ""one country, two systems" is the only thing affording the people of Hong Kong the kind of basic freedom they currently enjoy and it's that very basic freedom that is currently under attack by the CCP

Your argument has no basis in fact as I have shown in my post above. Your points 2 and 3 are just feels once again.

Your point one is once again demonstratively wrong.

HK has never been part of the British Empire. It has always been a lease. That's the cold hard fact under international law no matter much you want to believe that HK is not part of China legally.

[L3GEND4RY]

The Chinese government can rot in hell. The US should never sacrifice free speech to appease these communist thugs. I have great respect for the Chinese people who are captives in their own country, but the NBA needs to realize that they are in bed with a mafia state and they should start looking to grow their fanbase in other countries like India who can handle mild criticism.

I tend to agree. Sadly, I think it’ll be business as usual. I hope I’m wrong. The league needs to grow a spine and pull out altogether. Definitely don’t like the idea of our guys playing over there for the time being. This is getting ridiculous.

[Blazers-1977]

no, I blame euro colonialism on what's happening in Palestine, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and half of South America tho

If you count the Ottoman Empire a European Empire sure.

i laughed at that one bro, where'd you get that one from Benny Shapiro or Steven Crowturd?

Ok maybe not Afghanistan but Palestine , Syria , Iraq , Yemen absoutely yes:

[TheNewEra]

All seems so hostile why is the league risking even playing over there? Take a hit and bring the players back home

Yeah - I hope the players are safe.

i hope the Chinese do something stupid so they are exposed as the very thing everyone is accusing them of.

If they do something I don’t want to tempt how far they would go. Last thing we need is this gets to the point the players can’t leave. If I’m Adam Silver right now I’m getting everyone associated with the NBA on a private jet back home and putting out a statement the two games have been canceled.

[E-Balla]

I never said freedom is a Western notion. Freedom as we understand it as westerners is though. The treatment of non Han Chinese is really the only major criticism I feel comfortable attacking China for. Outside of that there's too many shades of gray for me to feel comfortable butting in.

Why you don’t think the Han Chinese deserve the same protections you give to non Han Chinese could fill a library.

Bro this isn't even proper English. No one knows what this is even supposed to mean.

[E-Balla]

Your argument has no basis in fact as I have shown in my post above. Your points 2 and 3 are just feels once again.

Your point one is once again demonstratively wrong.

HK has never been part of the British Empire. It has always been a lease. That's the cold hard fact under international law no matter much you want to believe that HK is not part of China legally.

I've seen a lot of people pretending HK was never a part of China or was uninhabited. This revisionist history being used to justify colonialism is similar to the argument that South Africa was uninhabited prior to the Dutch arriving. It's not lost on me that the justification switches from "they made Hong Kong profitable" to "no one loved there/it was never part of China" the second it's made clear profits are no excuse for colonialism.

[JeepCSC]

I never said freedom is a Western notion. Freedom as we understand it as westerners is though. The treatment of non Han Chinese is really the only major criticism I feel comfortable attacking China for. Outside of that there's too many shades of gray for me to feel comfortable butting in.

Why you don’t think the Han Chinese deserve the same protections you give to non Han Chinese could fill a library.

Bro this isn't even proper English. No one knows what this is even supposed to mean.

The format isn’t conducive to sentence diagramming, but suffice to say I was noting your long-windedness for defending some indefensible (to me) opinions.

[E-Balla]

Why you don’t think the Han Chinese deserve the same protections you give to non Han Chinese could fill a library.

Bro this isn't even proper English. No one knows what this is even supposed to mean.

The format isn’t conducive to sentence diagramming, but suffice to say I was noting your long-windedness for defending some indefensible (to me) opinions.

Which are? Again idk if you think your post makes sense but be assured it doesn't. I still have no idea as to what you're even hinting to.

[ratul]

Lol, I am amazed the number of people defending China. I wonder if the ccp are also knicks fans.

China who has a president for life doesn’t get the final say on free speech. Hong Kong is separate and the Chinese better step to this.

[RookieStar]

Ok after reading the china threads here...what I got from this is that..

1.) FCK China. You can't trust them to honor their word. The league and the players who are supossedly *woke* shouldnt bow down to them.

2.) Can't believe relagm had been infested by the 50center group. Next thing you know we will get a lot of ballboys posting revisionist crap with sources from wiki and etc supporting their **** claims.

3.) With the NBA involved in this mess... HK people got what they want and got the spotlight to them by the common people in the west.

[SkyhookinUrMom]

Everytime someone throws the word "freedom" in the context of this conflict a baby cat dies.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

China needs to stop trying to bully people around using their influence. You canceling activities in your own country is going to upset your own citizens, too.

The underlying story here is that we shouldnt even be there. They are harvesting peoples organs and killing people in concentration camps, and they have the audicity to cry about an accurate comment made about what is going on in Hong Kong. FOH. Good. Cancel all NBA activities there.

[lambchop]

China needs to stop trying to bully people around using their influence. You canceling activities in your own country is going to upset your own citizens, too.

The underlying story here is that we shouldnt even be there. They are harvesting peoples organs and killing people in concentration camps, and they have the audicity to cry about an accurate comment made about what is going on in Hong Kong. FOH. Good. Cancel all NBA activities there.

Money talks, dude. The NBA would probably do an NBA cares event inside those concentration camps if the price were right.

Still crazy how east Asian countries view Islam as being inherently evil.