Image ImageImage Image

Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread

Moderators: HomoSapien, dougthonus, kulaz3000, GimmeDat, DASMACKDOWN, Tommy Udo 6 , RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, Payt10, Ice Man, fleet

Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 16,542
And1: 3,207
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#501 » by Chi town » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:29 am

I want to see Coby WCJ PnR w the 2nd unit.

I’m betting Thad Young will be 6th man and come in for WCJ. Lauri to the 5. Kornet for Lauri at the 5 in spot mins. Coby with WCJ for 6 mins in the 2nd quarter.
BigUps
RealGM
Posts: 20,521
And1: 4,165
Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Location: Limits, like fears, are often just an illusion.
         

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#502 » by BigUps » Wed Oct 9, 2019 2:06 am

I'm surprised at the amount of criticism being tossed at White after one preseason game. I really liked what I saw and once the game slows down to him, he'll create more opportunities for his teammates. He's going to be able to utilize his speed and change of pace so much more as he adapts to the NBA.

One thing that I really liked was his defense. It was way better than I anticipated. Hopefully thats a trend that continues.
mack2354
Junior
Posts: 388
And1: 184
Joined: Jun 03, 2013
       

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#503 » by mack2354 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 2:26 am

I'll jump in with my first game overreaction as well. Dunn's offensive style is that of a #1 option. His style just doesn't fit with the starters. Even when he has a good individual game I feel like he holds back the potential from the rest of the guys. Tomas needs to start and the first unit can play a good team oriented, good spacing basketball.

If I'm the coach and Dunn is on my roster then I let Dunn run the second unit and try to run teams out of the gym. Dunn, White, and Gafford pushing the pace on every possesion should be the identity of the second unit. I'd try to get Val and Young as much burn as possible with the starters b/c their games would fit that identity and have Tomas/Lavine and Lauri play on the court with the 2nd unit b/c they can thrive in the uptempo game to.

I know its only the first preseason game with a lot of new guys in the rotation who weren't last year. What I saw though was a bunch of NBA players who looked like they were selected randomly in a pick-up game vs a team with an identity. Hopefully it doesn't take them half a season to define their roles.
Mbrahv0528
Starter
Posts: 2,194
And1: 843
Joined: May 19, 2010
       

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#504 » by Mbrahv0528 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:10 am

Showtime23 wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:The thing for me, as much as I liked what I saw from some of the guys, I still seriously worry about the offense.

We have been ranked 28 and 29 the last two years on offense. We have to find a way to always create easy shots. Its just too far in between where guys are getting clean open looks. We work too hard to get mediocre looks at the basket. And it seems everyone else that plays us routinely makes a simple drive and someone is wide open.

We do need to improve our defense yes. But if we cant constantly score, the team will be home watching the playoffs like the rest of us.

This is why I have high hopes for someone like Coby White. Because he looks like he will eventually tick a lot of boxes for us. Especially him attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line. For a team that other than Zach barely sniffs the line, its a huge addition. And the thought that if Wendell can be the pick and finisher up top, you can have a really potent lineup of attackers and shooters.

I hope we see something better next game. Hopefully Wendell plays. If anything I would ilke to see DG start which would be similar to if Wendell started.


Too much iso plays from Dunn and Lavine which probably made the offensive ranking one of the worst besides G league talent rotting on the bench. The Bulls pretty much drafted White out of desperation to address these needs so while I understand their concern, this is the wrong strategy to opt for when BPA is the way to go. (with Hachimura, Reddish available)

I think too many fans are putting high expectations on White when he is very raw and years away from making meaningful contributions.
He is just not at the talent level of Mitchell, Fox to make things happen at yr1,2.
Same with WCJ who will take 3 yrs to be the miniature version of Horford we all expect.
Generally from a teambuilding standpoint, I do not like waiting out 3+ yrs regardless of their ceiling bc you have to cash out a lot of money for future production.
Hot take city. Can we give them more than one preseason game before declaring them years from being useful? Please? This stuff is so obnoxious.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app
Proven_Winner
RealGM
Posts: 15,623
And1: 3,960
Joined: Jun 02, 2013

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#505 » by Proven_Winner » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:40 am

Ice Man wrote:
Proven_Winner wrote:
JohnnyKILLroy wrote:Chicken Littles everywhere.


Yea starting to feel like another lurker year. Bulls fans are definitely some of the fiercest and critical towards our own.


We'll be nicer when we have a team that wins more than 20-something games.


You misunderstand I’m not caring about nice or mean just logical and non emotional takes on the team one way or the other. I keep the same energy every year preseason doesn’t mean anything to me win or lose because I know as a viewer for years it means nothing and isn’t a good foresight into anything same as summer league.
weneeda2guard
Head Coach
Posts: 6,833
And1: 2,639
Joined: Feb 07, 2011

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#506 » by weneeda2guard » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:47 am

2018C3 wrote:
weneeda2guard wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:We’re so far into this “Fire GarPax” thing that it’s beyond stale, but again, for perspective, we lost 60 games last year.

If their big pickup was a 6th man, then that’s the same as their big FA pickups (Thad and Sato).

And frankly Zach and Lauri are fringe 6th man, atleast on an elite team they’d probably not be starting unless they were 3rd/4th options.

So are we a team of 6th men? I seriously need to see Coby run with starters. It’s going to be painful if he’s averaging 15 mpg and DNPs into January. Painful.

Just dump Dunn already.


This is my concern with the roster. I know we been tanking but seriously, is there a real star on this roster or is lavine just the tall guy playing pick up with the midgets? (No offense to any midgets)

When we traded butler the theory besides being stuck with a supermax on our cap is we didnt want to be just a mediocre team. We wanted to really compete for a title. At this point I'm not even sure we have a legit playoff team. Lavine and lauri will have to make major leaps to carry us to success. Can they do it? Remains to be seen.

I'm one that believes this needs a short leash meaning give them this season to see if they at least have what it takes to win 42 games. If we competing all year and we still win only 30-35 games I think we should immediately go back to searching for a new core even trading either lavine or lauri or maybe both to get a legit star on this roster. I dont want a repeat of the baby bulls era where we began becoming locked into our roster due to having to give deals to Chandler, deng Kirk Hinrich etc. Hindsight is 20/20 but if we moved on from deng earlier then we could have had a situation where rose and noah would have been here on rookie deals going into the summer of 2010 with enough room to sign wade lebron and Bosh and wade and lebron have both admitted chicago was their 1st choice but we didnt have the money to add bosh. Deng contract was the hindrance. Kirk was too but we had to part with the 17th pick to unload it. Kirk and deng was never good enough to lead us to a title. If we part with them early we have the space to sign that big 3 plus had Noah and rose. We would have had a dynasty

I dont want to go with this so long where we handing new deals to lavine and lauri even Carter Jr and they are just not good enough to lead us anywhere. For context sake , deng and kirk etc were at least good enough to get us into the playoffs. I def believe it should be a short leash for guys who can't even do that


What absolutely killed our last chances was holding on to Rose to long, (for me thats forgivable). All those Thibs teams were built around a scoring gaurd which Rose was great at. but once he went out over looked gaurds did pretty well in his place, and the organization was able to remain competitive. If those team brought in just one solid starter qaulity player in his place, the story may have turned out different.

Well for one , rose never played for skiles

And 2, they gave rose a year, mind you he was a 1st pick in the draft, and he responds with winning rookie of the year, contributing to getting the bulls to the playoffs after winning just 33 games the year before and dropping 36 and 11 his 1st playoff game. 2nd year he leads the team back to the playoffs again, is a all star and drops 25 ppg on the 1st place lebron led cavs . 3rd year he leads the bulls to the best record in the league and wins mvp.

Uhhh sorry that is exactly who you hold onto ans begin to build around. If lauri and or lavine lead us to the playoffs and drop numbers and contribute like rose did then that justifies building around them as a duo.

If we only win 30 games , then I think it's time to move on from those 2 as a duo begin to look for buyers for them and move 1 of them possibly both of them.
"they taking rose kindness for a weakness"
Hold That
RealGM
Posts: 11,511
And1: 209
Joined: Dec 07, 2001
     

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#507 » by Hold That » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:59 am

DuckIII wrote:
logical_art wrote:I'm still not sold on Coby White. He's not really a PG yet (loose handle, shoot first mentality) and he compounds his short arms with a low release and with a propensity to finish with two hands at about head level.

I do appreciate his effort and I think his speed and strength are legit.


He looked like what I suspect he is going to be. 6th man role player type.

Lots of time left in his Bulls career to show otherwise. And I like his D.

I’d agree I’ve been saying this before we drafted him. Would’ve preferred us to draft someone else. However he still will be a decent player in this league but I see a lot of Rodney Stuckey in his game. Which could be a fine player. Nothing about his game yells all-star, or future star. But he’s going to be a nice spark plug off the bench.
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 16,542
And1: 3,207
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#508 » by Chi town » Wed Oct 9, 2019 4:16 am

Hold That wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
logical_art wrote:I'm still not sold on Coby White. He's not really a PG yet (loose handle, shoot first mentality) and he compounds his short arms with a low release and with a propensity to finish with two hands at about head level.

I do appreciate his effort and I think his speed and strength are legit.


He looked like what I suspect he is going to be. 6th man role player type.

Lots of time left in his Bulls career to show otherwise. And I like his D.

I’d agree I’ve been saying this before we drafted him. Would’ve preferred us to draft someone else. However he still will be a decent player in this league but I see a lot of Rodney Stuckey in his game. Which could be a fine player. Nothing about his game yells all-star, or future star. But he’s going to be a nice spark plug off the bench.


Rodney stuckey w a 3 ball on high volume is a perennial all star
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 16,542
And1: 3,207
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#509 » by Chi town » Wed Oct 9, 2019 4:51 am

Lavine saying Coby has had one of the best rookie training camps he’s ever seen.

https://www.nba.com/bulls/gameday/despite-preseason-loss-bucks-bulls-showing-signs-growth
PrimzyBulls81
Veteran
Posts: 2,737
And1: 650
Joined: Feb 09, 2013
       

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#510 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 5:18 am

I stopped watching White's video after airball with weird offbalance shot.. One thing that bothers the hell out of me is going 3 on 1 and he goes solo, isnt he smart IQ player!?! Wtf.. Then he went hard fast solo into 3 defenders.. Not smart again. He needs a lot of learning.. He is young. But I liked his defense, he was good. Preseason game 1,lets move on..
Indomitable
RealGM
Posts: 21,236
And1: 4,373
Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Location: Yelzenbah!
     

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#511 » by Indomitable » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:24 am

BigUps wrote:I'm surprised at the amount of criticism being tossed at White after one preseason game. I really liked what I saw and once the game slows down to him, he'll create more opportunities for his teammates. He's going to be able to utilize his speed and change of pace so much more as he adapts to the NBA.

One thing that I really liked was his defense. It was way better than I anticipated. Hopefully thats a trend that continues.

Colby showed quick feet in defense back at NC. It was the first thing I noticed. His shot is my greatest concern.
Chicago Strong and rehab sucks
Showtime23
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,705
And1: 599
Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#512 » by Showtime23 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:30 am

BigUps wrote:I'm surprised at the amount of criticism being tossed at White after one preseason game. I really liked what I saw and once the game slows down to him, he'll create more opportunities for his teammates. He's going to be able to utilize his speed and change of pace so much more as he adapts to the NBA.

One thing that I really liked was his defense. It was way better than I anticipated. Hopefully thats a trend that continues.


I mean all the criticisms are valid and he needs to really needs to take them seriously like Jimmy Butler did.
The very unfortunate thing abt White is he has all the tools to become an all-star but is also very raw and clearly not NBA ready.
The problem is he wont likely fully utilize his jack of all trades skillset (all around, 2way player) and focus more on the scoring mentality since that is the most sexy part for all players. Guys like him and Dunn kinda lack fundamentals and need to really master pg skills to be a starter let alone stars. My best advice is know your limits and play within them like Sato has been doing in his entire career.
Gafford already realizes before even game started which is why I have been saying he has all-star ceiling. It might seem trivial but some players do ruin their entire career bc they are too full of themselves. Having the right mentality is really key in the NBA.
User avatar
Benedict Miller
General Manager
Posts: 9,555
And1: 2,042
Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Location: FLY St.
     

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#513 » by Benedict Miller » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:46 am

Red8911 wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
rtblues wrote:Let's overreact and decide everyone's futures and fates on the 1st preseason game, where the starting C didn't play.
Carry on...


Yeah, because having WCJ would've made ALL the difference. :lol:
Gafford will eventually take WCJ spot, you read it here first.


I'll believe it when I see it
Stratmaster
RealGM
Posts: 14,506
And1: 4,790
Joined: Oct 02, 2010
       

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#514 » by Stratmaster » Wed Oct 9, 2019 12:22 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
beeshma wrote:I think Coby White looks like the best player on the floor. He has the potential to be the best player on the roster this season. I certainly trust him more than anyone. Wendell is sort of trustworthy but he won't ever look for his own shot even when that's the best option.

Zach on the other hand, once a chucker always a chucker. :noway:


Did we watch the same game?
No. Beeshma was watching the alternative universe game.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
Stratmaster
RealGM
Posts: 14,506
And1: 4,790
Joined: Oct 02, 2010
       

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#515 » by Stratmaster » Wed Oct 9, 2019 12:41 pm

A 1 game assessment that surely means nothing to the big picture:

Gafford A+ ... ok, maybe B+ because he didn't play perfect basketball, but i don't know what more you could expect from a 2nd round pick in his first appearance in an NBA game.

Lauri. C- ... Shot looks great but all the other concerns are still sitting out there waiting to be dispelled

Zach C+ ... he was coasting, as he should be in preseason game 1. The only thing he has to prove is on defense. He made some good plays and some bad ones on that end of the court. He looks healthy and ready to play.

Otto C+ ... same as Lavine. Could have made a bigger impact but he seemed to be coasting and letting the guys fighting for playing time do their thing.

Every PG but one... C- ... White has the most upside. I was not really impressed at all with the way Sato played offensively, but he wil be a defensive asset. Dunn had good and bad.

Archie ... C+ ... as always, helps the team, doesn't hurt the team... no upside.

Archie's hair ...F... WTH?

Thad: C+ ... Really played more like a B but made a couple bad plays. I think he will help the team.

Honorable mention: Simon made a couple plays I didn't expect from an end of bench guy.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 61,184
And1: 23,050
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#516 » by DuckIII » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:21 pm

madvillian wrote:
It's funny Boylen is actually the coach Hoiberg was supposed to be.


I’m no Hoiberg fan, but in fairness Boylen has the type of roster that Hoiberg always needed, but never had, to run his stuff.

Not really a defense of Boylen either though. I never had confidence in Hoiberg and don’t have any so far in Boylen either.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
Indomitable
RealGM
Posts: 21,236
And1: 4,373
Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Location: Yelzenbah!
     

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#517 » by Indomitable » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:33 pm

Mbrahv0528 wrote:
Showtime23 wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:The thing for me, as much as I liked what I saw from some of the guys, I still seriously worry about the offense.

We have been ranked 28 and 29 the last two years on offense. We have to find a way to always create easy shots. Its just too far in between where guys are getting clean open looks. We work too hard to get mediocre looks at the basket. And it seems everyone else that plays us routinely makes a simple drive and someone is wide open.

We do need to improve our defense yes. But if we cant constantly score, the team will be home watching the playoffs like the rest of us.

This is why I have high hopes for someone like Coby White. Because he looks like he will eventually tick a lot of boxes for us. Especially him attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line. For a team that other than Zach barely sniffs the line, its a huge addition. And the thought that if Wendell can be the pick and finisher up top, you can have a really potent lineup of attackers and shooters.

I hope we see something better next game. Hopefully Wendell plays. If anything I would ilke to see DG start which would be similar to if Wendell started.


Too much iso plays from Dunn and Lavine which probably made the offensive ranking one of the worst besides G league talent rotting on the bench. The Bulls pretty much drafted White out of desperation to address these needs so while I understand their concern, this is the wrong strategy to opt for when BPA is the way to go. (with Hachimura, Reddish available)

I think too many fans are putting high expectations on White when he is very raw and years away from making meaningful contributions.
He is just not at the talent level of Mitchell, Fox to make things happen at yr1,2.
Same with WCJ who will take 3 yrs to be the miniature version of Horford we all expect.
Generally from a teambuilding standpoint, I do not like waiting out 3+ yrs regardless of their ceiling bc you have to cash out a lot of money for future production.
Hot take city. Can we give them more than one preseason game before declaring them years from being useful? Please? This stuff is so obnoxious.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

At least he is consistent.
Chicago Strong and rehab sucks
User avatar
chitowndish
Senior
Posts: 519
And1: 263
Joined: Apr 27, 2014
   

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#518 » by chitowndish » Wed Oct 9, 2019 2:04 pm

I guess I'm a little disappointed just that the D looked really bad and I guess Dunn running the offense still looked pretty rough and just not sure what the hell is going on with Felicio and I couldn't stand the whole "now that he has goggles he's going to play better" angle they kept trying to push. Love to see Felicio's minutes cut drastically but I get that if we have injuries to 2 centers he's going to get minutes so I'm not too mad about this. I'd like to see Dunn play more with White off the bench and off the ball I think they would complement each other better and I like Sato with the starters. I thought White played well but yeah I wasn't particularly impressed with him as a PG but it's early and he's going to take time. Gafford looked great and Arci as well brought great energy and it was great to see Valentine draining shots. Lauri LaVine and Porter looked pretty good for stretches but they were coasting I thought which I get but it isn't fun to watch.

Overall though the game was pretty blah with bad defense and some bright spots. I'm also hoping for more on the offensive end I agree it does look like we're still working pretty hard for shots when we have a lot of scorers so while the D was pretty glaring to me I agree that the offense is pretty concerning. With Felicio and Dunn playing so many minutes with the starters though it's tough to make sense of it so I'm not too worried yet.
Indomitable
RealGM
Posts: 21,236
And1: 4,373
Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Location: Yelzenbah!
     

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#519 » by Indomitable » Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:12 pm

chitowndish wrote:I guess I'm a little disappointed just that the D looked really bad and I guess Dunn running the offense still looked pretty rough and just not sure what the hell is going on with Felicio and I couldn't stand the whole "now that he has goggles he's going to play better" angle they kept trying to push. Love to see Felicio's minutes cut drastically but I get that if we have injuries to 2 centers he's going to get minutes so I'm not too mad about this. I'd like to see Dunn play more with White off the bench and off the ball I think they would complement each other better and I like Sato with the starters. I thought White played well but yeah I wasn't particularly impressed with him as a PG but it's early and he's going to take time. Gafford looked great and Arci as well brought great energy and it was great to see Valentine draining shots. Lauri LaVine and Porter looked pretty good for stretches but they were coasting I thought which I get but it isn't fun to watch.

Overall though the game was pretty blah with bad defense and some bright spots. I'm also hoping for more on the offensive end I agree it does look like we're still working pretty hard for shots when we have a lot of scorers so while the D was pretty glaring to me I agree that the offense is pretty concerning. With Felicio and Dunn playing so many minutes with the starters though it's tough to make sense of it so I'm not too worried yet.

Dunn is subpar offense player who stinks off the ball. He just a body. I prefer Shaq who understands his role.
Chicago Strong and rehab sucks
Ice Man
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 20,795
And1: 9,046
Joined: Apr 19, 2011

Re: Bulls vs. Bucks Preseason #1 Game Thread 

Post#520 » by Ice Man » Wed Oct 9, 2019 4:19 pm

Stratmaster wrote:A 1 game assessment that surely means nothing to the big picture:

Gafford A+ ... ok, maybe B+ because he didn't play perfect basketball, but i don't know what more you could expect from a 2nd round pick in his first appearance in an NBA game.

Lauri. C- ... Shot looks great but all the other concerns are still sitting out there waiting to be dispelled

Zach C+ ... he was coasting, as he should be in preseason game 1. The only thing he has to prove is on defense. He made some good plays and some bad ones on that end of the court. He looks healthy and ready to play.

Otto C+ ... same as Lavine. Could have made a bigger impact but he seemed to be coasting and letting the guys fighting for playing time do their thing.

Every PG but one... C- ... White has the most upside. I was not really impressed at all with the way Sato played offensively, but he wil be a defensive asset. Dunn had good and bad.

Archie ... C+ ... as always, helps the team, doesn't hurt the team... no upside.

Archie's hair ...F... WTH?

Thad: C+ ... Really played more like a B but made a couple bad plays. I think he will help the team.

Honorable mention: Simon made a couple plays I didn't expect from an end of bench guy.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


That's how I saw it, too. You missed Val. He looked good at the start as a floor stretcher, but when you end a game 3-12 the stretching was in vain. Also, Thad looked pretty bad to me. I will chalk it up to not caring/new team rather than age catching up to him. At least, I hope so.

Return to Chicago Bulls