OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA

[matchman]

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Philadelphia-76ers-Sixers-Fan-Hong-Kong-Protests-Preseason-Game-Signs-562589301.html

As the NBA continues to deal with the fallout from an executive’s controversial tweet, a man says he and his wife were kicked out of a Philadelphia 76ers game after showing their support for protesters in Hong Kong.

Sam Wachs of Chestnut Hill and his wife attended Tuesday night’s preseason game between the Sixers and the Guangzhou Loong-Lions of the Chinese Basketball Association at the Wells Fargo Center.

Wachs told NBC10 he and his wife were holding up “Free Hong Kong” and “Free HK” signs in reference to the ongoing protests in Hong Kong. Wachs said he lived in Hong Kong for two years and supports the protesters’ movement.

“We were just sitting in our seats near the Chinese bench,” Wachs said.

As they were sitting, Wachs said security confiscated their signs. He then said they were kicked out of the game during the second quarter by security after they yelled, “Free Hong Kong.”

“We were saying, ‘Free Hong Kong,’’ Wachs told NBC10. “What’s wrong with that?”

NBC10 reached out to the 76ers for comment. We have not yet heard back from them.

We need more of this.

Yes, if the fans at MSG start chanting Free Hong Kong the NBA's fate will be sealed and China will know it made the wrong move.

Make it happen peeps

To imagine the scene already made one jizz his pants.

[Blockwatcher]

The leaders of China are acting a bit childish about this, they surely can't expect the NBA to remove freedom of speech from the employees of various teams. The statement was also not made by the NBA or on behalf of the NBA, I suppose I could understand them being annoyed with the Rockets but not sure why the NBA as a whole is targeted.

O they expect not only the NBA but Hellywood and Blizzard and any other form of entertainment to bend the knee.

[Zenzibar]

Nets fan here. Joe Tsai can go **** himself.

The CCP has no right to dictate what Americans can or cannot say. They are out of control.

If they're this sensitive about one NBA GM sharing one tweet about his support for Hong Kong, imagine what's really going on over there. As Americans, this is where we come together and say F China.

Yeah ok. We can't even get a consensus on gun control on a national level.

[MrDollarBills]

Nets fan here. Joe Tsai can go **** himself.

The CCP has no right to dictate what Americans can or cannot say. They are out of control.

If they're this sensitive about one NBA GM sharing one tweet about his support for Hong Kong, imagine what's really going on over there. As Americans, this is where we come together and say F China.

Yeah ok. We can't even get a consensus on gun control on a national level.

I would say that the GOP being in bed with the NRA has a lot more to do with that than anything else. But that's another topic entirely. I definitely think that China trying to regulate American free speech is a non partisan issue. Everyone should be pissed.

[Stannis]

I wonder how much the salary cap will go down after losing the China market?

[KnicksGod]

lol Yes. It's definitely not new. But when a government is that worried about someone giving a conflicting point of view, it is very clearly a sign that they rely on information control and spin. That is a big problem because it means autocracy and lack of accountability.

Things we already knew. But Morey doing it ... thousands of miles away, not a politician, and nothing too extraordinary that he said ... shows how very threatened they are by free thought and a true accounting of the way they conduct their affairs.

Sounds familiar lol.

In all fairness though, the NBA is not a nation state. They don't imprison the Chinese ... it goes without saying. They are merely selling basketball to them. The league could boycott but in further fairness, we have known for a long time that the NBA is selling to China. So while the issue comes out now in a way that is controversial, it's also not something that is new. It's just now in front of people.

I'm not changing my mind on this, I don't like dictatorships or big businesses doing business with dictatorships, but really we haven't learned anything new. Just that the NBA didn't take a stand here. But what's more important ... the years of time that the NBA has been successfully cultivating the Chinese market, or just the current day's news?

I guess my point is -- where was everybody before this? We all knew the NBA was getting big in China. I didn't object. Nobody here did that I can recall. So why now? I get it -- it's news and news cycles -- but really nothing has changed.

Companies that want access to China's huge market have to pass some stringent requirements with that government. So really, all this info was available before the Morey episode.

The whole notion that the NBA should boycott China is somewhat laughable when you look at how pretty much everything in the US was made in China. Including clothes on most of our backs and whatever device you're using to read this. But the NBA is supposed to boycott them when the country sold out to them for cheap labor and products a long time ago and is up to our necks in debt to them. But for some reason the NBA is supposed to kneecap themselves and not sell their product to China.

That is not the point.

The point is China trying to censor our citizens with business blackmail.

That is more having global trade relationships with China.

I agree. But it's just spotlighted now. They've been using their power as an absolute authority to bend companies like the NBA to their will for a long time, and the only reason the NBA and others bend is for money reasons.

[KnicksGod]

... Morey spoke up and so we have this issue now. But what about all the nice things that are said or the things that are not said (most importantly) because the NBA wants to make business there.

It's now half the NBA market.

I'm not speaking out of both sides of my mouth as it appears -- I'm saying this has been going on a lot longer than the last week. It's just a news cycle now. And I didn't complain before and most others did not either.

Morey tweets and it gets people's attention. But what about having an NBA Cares event in Beijing? That shows support for the government and whistling past the graveyard. You're essentially participating in what could be propaganda that pretends all is well in China.

That's every bit as significant (as is the money made in China of course lol) as the Morey thing.

It's weird how people pay attention only to certain things. I guess that's a flaw with democracy and media. It's also why big businesses often try to mimic big powers like China ... they market and they try to scorch earth, and if anybody cares, then they just repackage it and try to sell it a little differently.

Big businesses do sometimes operate like fascist entities. Is it right? No. But you need a way to get people's attention and make them absorb and digest it (I admit that I didn't knock the NBA for loving China before this episode came to light).

What we really need is a #MeToo for all the bad stuff that big businesses are doing out of the view of people. The things they should be held accountable for but aren't. The things that go against the goodwill and responsibility that should be part of the foundations of an American company ... and other companies that are born on free soil and benefit from liberal economic systems and open societies.

Look what MeToo uncovered. Same bad actors are moving behind the scenes in the money world. It is making capitalism kind of toxic and unraveling some basic things that were part of what truly made America great after WWII. People need to take note of it and hope that public accountability can change the game.

[Clyde_Style]

The whole notion that the NBA should boycott China is somewhat laughable when you look at how pretty much everything in the US was made in China. Including clothes on most of our backs and whatever device you're using to read this. But the NBA is supposed to boycott them when the country sold out to them for cheap labor and products a long time ago and is up to our necks in debt to them. But for some reason the NBA is supposed to kneecap themselves and not sell their product to China.

That is not the point.

The point is China trying to censor our citizens with business blackmail.

That is more having global trade relationships with China.

I agree. But it's just spotlighted now. They've been using their power as an absolute authority to bend companies like the NBA to their will for a long time, and the only reason the NBA and others bend is for money reasons.

The big tech companies are especially suspect when they kowtow to the PRC. We already give up our data and privacy to google and the like, but unless they are hacked they are basically using that to market ads to us and it requires a subpoena to access our data. In China, every platform is an instrument of the state.

Though, I will say I'm wary of our government too and their desire to own backdoors to American company's platforms.

As with many things, I'm of mixed feelings about things like the security state. I hate the big brother aspects and its implications, but I also loathe the deep state rhetoric that posits all intelligence operatives as opponents to executive power. Even our IC has a role to play in maintaining democratic checks and balances as we are seeing play out now in real time. It's all a very mixed bag, but not everyone in the employ of security systems is driven by partisan ideologies. Some are legit civil servants who side with constitutional duties over party.

[matchman]

NBA apologizes to China over a tweet showing supp…：
~

Watch on YouTube

I know this is Fox but hey this guy Whitlock has got a point on how market influences players' behaviour.

Also this one, come on Cuttino there should be justice besides the shiny RMB right?

Watch on YouTube

[matchman]

That is not the point.

The point is China trying to censor our citizens with business blackmail.

That is more having global trade relationships with China.

I agree. But it's just spotlighted now. They've been using their power as an absolute authority to bend companies like the NBA to their will for a long time, and the only reason the NBA and others bend is for money reasons.

The big tech companies are especially suspect when they kowtow to the PRC. We already give up our data and privacy to google and the like, but unless they are hacked they are basically using that to market ads to us and it requires a subpoena to access our data. In China, every platform is an instrument of the state.

Though, I will say I'm wary of our government too and their desire to own backdoors to American company's platforms.

As with many things, I'm of mixed feelings about things like the security state. I hate the big brother aspects and its implications, but I also loathe the deep state rhetoric that posits all intelligence operatives as opponents to executive power. Even our IC has a role to play in maintaining democratic checks and balances as we are seeing play out now in real time. It's all a very mixed bag, but not everyone in the employ of security systems is driven by partisan ideologies. Some are legit civil servants who side with constitutional duties over party.

Check out Orwell's "1984", it is exactly what they are doing, with the aid of stolen technology.

Also the great firewall

https://www.wired.com/2008/05/leaked-cisco-do/

An internal Cisco document (.pdf) leaked to reporters on the eve of a Senate human rights hearing reveals that Cisco engineers regarded the Chinese government's rigid internet censorship program as an opportunity to do more business with the repressive regime.

The 90-page document is an internal presentation that Cisco engineers and staffers in China mulled over in 2002 as the central government was upgrading its local, state and provincial public safety and security network infrastructure. Under the category "Cisco Opportunities," the document provides bullet point suggestions for how it might service China's censorship system called the "Golden Shield", and better known in the West as the Great Firewall of China.

Cisco_golden_shieldChina's "Golden Shield" project was one of several government-run commercial opportunities for Cisco in 2002.
Credit: CiscoThe document is the first evidence that the networking giant has marketed its routers to China specifically as a tool of repression. It reinforces the double-edged role that Americans' technological ingenuity plays in the rest of the world. Companies including Cisco, Yahoo, Microsoft and Google have faced criticism for cooperating to various degrees with the repressive Chinese regime, and the document leak on Monday came one day before a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing into U.S. technology companies' participation in foreign government censorship programs.

"If you know ahead of time that a sale could lead to human rights violations, and there's no way of mitigating that, maybe you shouldn't offer it to that entity," says Arvind Ganesan, a director at the nonprofit Human Rights Watch, who called on Cisco to conduct a global audit for similar marketing behavior.

There is much suspect that Cisco may have helped PRC to build the "Great Firewall", a network censorship that is so powerful that Chinese netizens can only see what government wants them to see, unless a very small portion of people who can climb the wall and bypass it by VPN.

[Clyde_Style]

I agree. But it's just spotlighted now. They've been using their power as an absolute authority to bend companies like the NBA to their will for a long time, and the only reason the NBA and others bend is for money reasons.

The big tech companies are especially suspect when they kowtow to the PRC. We already give up our data and privacy to google and the like, but unless they are hacked they are basically using that to market ads to us and it requires a subpoena to access our data. In China, every platform is an instrument of the state.

Though, I will say I'm wary of our government too and their desire to own backdoors to American company's platforms.

As with many things, I'm of mixed feelings about things like the security state. I hate the big brother aspects and its implications, but I also loathe the deep state rhetoric that posits all intelligence operatives as opponents to executive power. Even our IC has a role to play in maintaining democratic checks and balances as we are seeing play out now in real time. It's all a very mixed bag, but not everyone in the employ of security systems is driven by partisan ideologies. Some are legit civil servants who side with constitutional duties over party.

Check out Orwell's "1984", it is exactly what they are doing, with the aid of stolen technology.

Also the great firewall

https://www.wired.com/2008/05/leaked-cisco-do/

An internal Cisco document (.pdf) leaked to reporters on the eve of a Senate human rights hearing reveals that Cisco engineers regarded the Chinese government's rigid internet censorship program as an opportunity to do more business with the repressive regime.

The 90-page document is an internal presentation that Cisco engineers and staffers in China mulled over in 2002 as the central government was upgrading its local, state and provincial public safety and security network infrastructure. Under the category "Cisco Opportunities," the document provides bullet point suggestions for how it might service China's censorship system called the "Golden Shield", and better known in the West as the Great Firewall of China.

Cisco_golden_shieldChina's "Golden Shield" project was one of several government-run commercial opportunities for Cisco in 2002.
Credit: CiscoThe document is the first evidence that the networking giant has marketed its routers to China specifically as a tool of repression. It reinforces the double-edged role that Americans' technological ingenuity plays in the rest of the world. Companies including Cisco, Yahoo, Microsoft and Google have faced criticism for cooperating to various degrees with the repressive Chinese regime, and the document leak on Monday came one day before a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing into U.S. technology companies' participation in foreign government censorship programs.

"If you know ahead of time that a sale could lead to human rights violations, and there's no way of mitigating that, maybe you shouldn't offer it to that entity," says Arvind Ganesan, a director at the nonprofit Human Rights Watch, who called on Cisco to conduct a global audit for similar marketing behavior.

There is much suspect that Cisco may have helped PRC to build the "Great Firewall", a network censorship that is so powerful that Chinese netizens can only see what government wants them to see, unless a very small portion of people who can climb the wall and bypass it by VPN.

In China today, the current form of samizdat may become something like a USB stick with a VPN program sold on the black market. Get caught, go to jail.

[KnicksGod]

I wonder how much the salary cap will go down after losing the China market?

It looks like roughly 55%.

Parody follows;

Only Trump can save them now. I continue to believe that while I have no idea how tariffs either do work or are supposed to work -- same as the Trump administration -- I would like to see a tariff somehow placed on either Chinese basketballs or Chinese League Pass or perhaps on Adam Silver's first class ticket to Beijing. I am not sure but I do know we need tariffs in some way, shape or form.

In addition, and the parody continues, I would like to know if Trump will have a plan to bail out the NBA from their China losses, right after he bails out the farmers. Okay forget the farmers, just bail out the NBA and Wall Street. And if you have to pick one of the two, bail out Wall Street.

[Clyde_Style]

I wonder how much the salary cap will go down after losing the China market?

It looks like roughly 55%.

Parody follows;

Only Trump can save them now. I continue to believe that while I have no idea how tariffs either do work or are supposed to work -- same as the Trump administration -- I would like to see a tariff somehow placed on either Chinese basketballs or Chinese League Pass or perhaps on Adam Silver's first class ticket to Beijing. I am not sure but I do know we need tariffs in some way, shape or form.

In addition, and the parody continues, I would like to know if Trump will have a plan to bail out the NBA from their China losses, right after he bails out the farmers. Okay forget the farmers, just bail out the NBA and Wall Street. And if you have to pick one of the two, bail out Wall Street.

And the cool thing is Trump will make China pay for all of the bailouts just like he had Mexico pay for his wall.

[KnicksGod]

The big tech companies are especially suspect when they kowtow to the PRC. We already give up our data and privacy to google and the like, but unless they are hacked they are basically using that to market ads to us and it requires a subpoena to access our data. In China, every platform is an instrument of the state.

Though, I will say I'm wary of our government too and their desire to own backdoors to American company's platforms.

As with many things, I'm of mixed feelings about things like the security state. I hate the big brother aspects and its implications, but I also loathe the deep state rhetoric that posits all intelligence operatives as opponents to executive power. Even our IC has a role to play in maintaining democratic checks and balances as we are seeing play out now in real time. It's all a very mixed bag, but not everyone in the employ of security systems is driven by partisan ideologies. Some are legit civil servants who side with constitutional duties over party.

Check out Orwell's "1984", it is exactly what they are doing, with the aid of stolen technology.

Also the great firewall

https://www.wired.com/2008/05/leaked-cisco-do/

An internal Cisco document (.pdf) leaked to reporters on the eve of a Senate human rights hearing reveals that Cisco engineers regarded the Chinese government's rigid internet censorship program as an opportunity to do more business with the repressive regime.

The 90-page document is an internal presentation that Cisco engineers and staffers in China mulled over in 2002 as the central government was upgrading its local, state and provincial public safety and security network infrastructure. Under the category "Cisco Opportunities," the document provides bullet point suggestions for how it might service China's censorship system called the "Golden Shield", and better known in the West as the Great Firewall of China.

Cisco_golden_shieldChina's "Golden Shield" project was one of several government-run commercial opportunities for Cisco in 2002.
Credit: CiscoThe document is the first evidence that the networking giant has marketed its routers to China specifically as a tool of repression. It reinforces the double-edged role that Americans' technological ingenuity plays in the rest of the world. Companies including Cisco, Yahoo, Microsoft and Google have faced criticism for cooperating to various degrees with the repressive Chinese regime, and the document leak on Monday came one day before a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing into U.S. technology companies' participation in foreign government censorship programs.

"If you know ahead of time that a sale could lead to human rights violations, and there's no way of mitigating that, maybe you shouldn't offer it to that entity," says Arvind Ganesan, a director at the nonprofit Human Rights Watch, who called on Cisco to conduct a global audit for similar marketing behavior.

There is much suspect that Cisco may have helped PRC to build the "Great Firewall", a network censorship that is so powerful that Chinese netizens can only see what government wants them to see, unless a very small portion of people who can climb the wall and bypass it by VPN.

In China today, the current form of samizdat may become something like a USB stick with a VPN program sold on the black market. Get caught, go to jail.

Like with all things DJT (let's say you know who), he is going hard positioning himself against the deep state because they are the last line of defense to the malfeasance he is perpetrating. Sure there are bad actors in IC as well, as in all walks of life, but he figures the Congress is too cowardly to do a thing on the R side ... man he was right about that for sure ... so of course he's ready to strike preemptive blows at them.

Call me naive but if you go into such dangerous or arduous and not particularly well paying work, I kind of thing there's a lower per capita rate of bad motives ... meaning motives that work against a good constitutional system. That per capita rate climbs much higher at 1600 Pennsylvania. I mean is this even in doubt? Nope.

[KnicksGod]

I wonder how much the salary cap will go down after losing the China market?

It looks like roughly 55%.

Parody follows;

Only Trump can save them now. I continue to believe that while I have no idea how tariffs either do work or are supposed to work -- same as the Trump administration -- I would like to see a tariff somehow placed on either Chinese basketballs or Chinese League Pass or perhaps on Adam Silver's first class ticket to Beijing. I am not sure but I do know we need tariffs in some way, shape or form.

In addition, and the parody continues, I would like to know if Trump will have a plan to bail out the NBA from their China losses, right after he bails out the farmers. Okay forget the farmers, just bail out the NBA and Wall Street. And if you have to pick one of the two, bail out Wall Street.

And the cool thing is Trump will make China pay for all of the bailouts just like he had Mexico pay for his wall.

I'm banning basketball in China and Adam Silver, Dan Gilbert and Mark Cuban will pay for it. Roars.

[prolific96]

Trump wants that smoke!

How do you guys think Kerr and Pop respond after being called out by Trump for "pandering" to China while unloading the US politics. Does the NBA and its owners give them the latitude to respond?

[NowWHYcee7]

Trump is right. Popovich and Kerr talk a good game but when it comes down to it they are about their money, ie; they don't give a **** about human rights...at least the Donald keeps it real. **** China.

[aq_ua]

Probably worth mentioning that the NBA was naive in thinking that any business could be immune from the effects of a prolonged trade war. At the heart of it, unfortunately, the US skin in this China vs. HK story really seems to be about trade.

We also only talk about the "NBA" downside of the equation when it comes to this story. Basketball is huge in China, and sports in general in China is estimated to be a $300-400 billion industry. Imagine if China loses access to the best basketball league in the world, and possibly the cast out NBA players that sometimes end up in Chinese leagues. Obviously it doesn't cripple China's economy but they won't avoid the pain either.

[matchman]

https://time.com/5696832/hong-kong-nba-preseason-wizards-chinese-basketball-association/

Protesters handed out T-shirts and held up signs in support of Hong Kong on Wednesday night when the Washington Wizards hosted a team from the Chinese Basketball Association.

The Wizards beat the Guangzhou Long-Lions 137-98 in a game that included more than a half-dozen protests inside Capital One Arena over the NBA’s ongoing rift with the Chinese government.

Protesters handed out “Free Hong Kong” T-shirts on the street outside the arena before the exhibition game. The protesters, who said they were from Freedom House, held up signs reading, “Shame the NBA,” ”South Park was right” and “Memo to the NBA: Principles over profit! No censorship! USA loves Hong Kong.”

The problems between the NBA and China began after Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey posted a tweet last week that showed support for anti-government protesters in Hong Kong.

[Garbagelo]

we are heading into another cold war

stay safe people