China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion...

[clyde21]

Ok but are you giving China a pass there on what they are doing just because they are not European?

I do think China's response to the HK protestors does have some after effects of being screwed over by Europeans in the past but I can't think of any remote justification to what they are doing to the Uyghurs and that story should be the one dominating the news.

what? i have been talking about the Uyghurs this entire time...my entire point is that everyone's a hypocrite because now all of the sudden they care about 'human rights' and 'freedom' when it comes to Hong Kong but China has been committing genocide against Uyghers for YEARS and no one has batted an eye...NBA was playing NBA games miles away from where China has been putting them in internment camps...you didn't see that on the news tho...because, again, selective outrage depending on who the victim is..and if the victims are Muslim everyone tends to ignore it, like they've been ignoring Palestine for 7 decades and how they've been ignoring the MILLIONS of dead/refugees across the entire Middle East the last 20 years.

The contrast between the Uygher genocide and HK protests should raise alarms around the world about the dangers of media censorship, which is exactly the issue facing the NBA at hand. On one hand, there is some truth that Euro centric colonialism has something to do with the lack of past media attention to the genocide of Muslims and other minority ethnic group (also see eg Myanmar), but one big if not the biggest reason the HK movement has taken so much international interest is because there is no media censorship in HK which gives them a voice. The Ugyhers don’t have a voice and activists in China are either improsoned or killed, let alone getting any Chinese media exposure. This is the major major issue the NBA needs to realize if they want to operate in the China market.

mainstream media, and that's means both sides, are just arms of the pentagon/deep state/corporations at this point, they'll show you only what they want to you show you as long as it fits within a particular pro-America agenda narrative.

i mean, Saudia Arabia has been slaughtering Yemenis for 5 years now (90 thousand children slaughtered, 14 million Yemenis on brink of famine as we speak)...but what makes headline news? an attack on an oil refinery in Saudia Arabia and how it might affect oil prices.

just completely disgusting.

and you're wrong about people 'not having voice'...that's the entire point of journalism, reporting on behalf of people who don't have a voice...the Uygher situations has been reported by independent media for years now, just go read articles about it on The Incercept and The Grayzone from 2016 and 2017...how come these independent journalists with a fraction of the resources that CNN/Fox News have reported on it but the mainstream conglomerates don't? the answer should be obvious.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Unsubstantiated, except for those who did substantiate it. Like US intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Mueller Report, and every other investigation made into it. Oh, except by Russia and Trump, they deny it, I'll give you that.

Since you're a very knowledgeable person and have "US intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Mueller Report, and every other investigation" behind you. Go on. Substantiate it. Give me and Americans evidence. Sources.
No. Steele dossier about "golden showers" doesn't count.
Remember how Mueller was going to prove Trump collusion with Russia? I remember how Democrats pinned everything on Mueller and "collusion with Putin".

The Russians have been accused of similar meddling in France and Germany, too.
And he's right that all the intelligence agencies and the Mueller Report claimed it was conclusive that Russia meddled in the 2016 election. There were even indictments issued in relation to it.
So there is mounds of evidence, and the Steele Dossier has nothing to do with any of it. Not sure why anyone would deny it at this point, unless they believe in some global conspiracy to besmirch a blameless Russia, which, frankly, is beyond farfetched.

Not true. The entire premise for even investigating and obtaining FISA warrants (clear abuse of power) was centered on an unsubstantiated Steele Dossier. Without the FISA warrants, no investigation happens. When your evidence of something is "US intelligence agencies say it's true" or "People were charged for it"... you clearly don't understand what evidence is. The US government deals with plenty of it's own corruption and abuse of power and REGULARLY brings down it's political enemies with trumped up or false charges. It's literally a past time for the FBI and CIA. It's a huge reason multiple presidents like JFK have gone to war with intelligence agencies and their unchecked abuse of power. Appeal to authority fallacy doesn't mean something is true.

I'm a registered Democrat (who's gotten more conservative as I've hit my 30's) and anyone with any sort of ability to look at this situation with an open mind, and fact find for themselves can see the coup attempt here. I am someone who rooted against Trump and saw this corruption by the intelligence agencies, media etc and now find myself defending him half of the time. This was the most brazen coup attempt in USA history. I never thought we'd see a Banana Republic here or a witch hunt like you typically see in "3rd world" elections. The "law and order" of this country has become... make an accusation with zero evidence, then FIND a crime later, move the goal post and charge someone.

People don't understand that China, Korea, Russia, USA, UK, Poland etc all try to hack each other and sway elections every day. The charges in the Russia investigation were based on moved goal posts. The original premise was "Trump worked with Russia to hack/alter an election and win". That moved to "obstruction" or using social media to influence people (then they found out that a ton of these ads/bots were PRO DNC and the topic died quickly. Now they are using Ukraine, the bitter enemy of Russia as his way of cheating!? Nobody sees how laughable this is? China actually killed thousands of our assets, continuously abuses us on trade and financially, is caught spying on us constantly and yet "Muh Russia!" is everything people want to talk about. Snowden exposed our brutal spying and abuse of power in Germany and instead of being held accountable we started a historic manhunt to try to bring the guy down. Assange is facing multiple life sentences/extradition for releasing information that is seemingly accurate. I don't see why we would be trying SO hard to capture/destroy guys like Snowden/Assange if they were just spilling some crazy conspiracy theories. That is NOT how a democracy or sound legal system is supposed to work. The whole goal is innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

Look at this stupid random whistleblower controversy. One whistleblower was exposed as a Democrat operative basically, then suddenly they put another forward defended by the same lawyer, as if that changes anything. Same thing happens with sexual accusers. When one is proven to be unreliable, they simply throw 3 new ones out of nowhere to attack whoever the target is. How about we stop coming to conclusions or taking sides without sound evidence?

As Chuck Schumer famously said... Democrat Sen. Chuck Schumer spoke of in glee, in response to then-president-elect Trump’s criticism of U.S. intelligence agencies. “Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC’s host Rachel Maddow.

This is basically admitting that they will target political enemies and seek revenge.

Russia absolutely is not our friends and surely wants to see us fail and collapse. So does China, NOKO, Iran.. and honestly probably half of the world. The USA is no better in this regard either. Everyone is after power.

[13th Man]

Since you're a very knowledgeable person and have "US intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Mueller Report, and every other investigation" behind you. Go on. Substantiate it. Give me and Americans evidence. Sources.
No. Steele dossier about "golden showers" doesn't count.
Remember how Mueller was going to prove Trump collusion with Russia? I remember how Democrats pinned everything on Mueller and "collusion with Putin".

The Russians have been accused of similar meddling in France and Germany, too.
And he's right that all the intelligence agencies and the Mueller Report claimed it was conclusive that Russia meddled in the 2016 election. There were even indictments issued in relation to it.
So there is mounds of evidence, and the Steele Dossier has nothing to do with any of it. Not sure why anyone would deny it at this point, unless they believe in some global conspiracy to besmirch a blameless Russia, which, frankly, is beyond farfetched.

Not true. The entire premise for even investigating and obtaining FISA warrants (clear abuse of power) was centered on an unsubstantiated Steele Dossier. Without the FISA warrants, no investigation happens. When your evidence of something is "US intelligence agencies say it's true" or "People were charged for it"... you clearly don't understand what evidence is. The US government deals with plenty of it's own corruption and abuse of power and REGULARLY brings down it's political enemies with trumped up or false charges. It's literally a past time for the FBI and CIA. It's a huge reason multiple presidents like JFK have gone to war with intelligence agencies and their unchecked abuse of power. Appeal to authority fallacy doesn't mean something is true.

I'm a registered Democrat (who's gotten more conservative as I've hit my 30's) and anyone with any sort of ability to look at this situation with an open mind, and fact find for themselves can see the coup attempt here. I am someone who rooted against Trump and saw this corruption by the intelligence agencies, media etc and now find myself defending him half of the time. This was the most brazen coup attempt in USA history. I never thought we'd see a Banana Republic here or a witch hunt like you typically see in "3rd world" elections. The "law and order" of this country has become... make an accusation with zero evidence, then FIND a crime later, move the goal post and charge someone. That is NOT how a democracy or sound legal system is supposed to work. The whole goal is innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

As Chuck Schumer famously said... Democrat Sen. Chuck Schumer spoke of in glee, in response to then-president-elect Trump’s criticism of U.S. intelligence agencies. “Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC’s host Rachel Maddow.

This is basically admitting that they will target political enemies and seek revenge.

Bravo sir, very well said. I didn't want to get too political but am glad to see that some people can have a change of perspective when they look outside of what most of the MSM is feeding them. Impeachment is simply a distraction from the real bombshells that are about to be revealed via the Durham report.

[so_bored]

What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This. Though, it's expected from Lebron who is the biggest front runner there ever is. Of course he would stfu and bend his ass over for China.

[seewhy]

what? i have been talking about the Uyghurs this entire time...my entire point is that everyone's a hypocrite because now all of the sudden they care about 'human rights' and 'freedom' when it comes to Hong Kong but China has been committing genocide against Uyghers for YEARS and no one has batted an eye...NBA was playing NBA games miles away from where China has been putting them in internment camps...you didn't see that on the news tho...because, again, selective outrage depending on who the victim is..and if the victims are Muslim everyone tends to ignore it, like they've been ignoring Palestine for 7 decades and how they've been ignoring the MILLIONS of dead/refugees across the entire Middle East the last 20 years.

The contrast between the Uygher genocide and HK protests should raise alarms around the world about the dangers of media censorship, which is exactly the issue facing the NBA at hand. On one hand, there is some truth that Euro centric colonialism has something to do with the lack of past media attention to the genocide of Muslims and other minority ethnic group (also see eg Myanmar), but one big if not the biggest reason the HK movement has taken so much international interest is because there is no media censorship in HK which gives them a voice. The Ugyhers don’t have a voice and activists in China are either improsoned or killed, let alone getting any Chinese media exposure. This is the major major issue the NBA needs to realize if they want to operate in the China market.

mainstream media, and that's means both sides, are just arms of the pentagon/deep state at this point, they'll show you only what they want to you show you as long as it fits within a particular pro-America agenda narrative.

i mean, Saudia Arabia has been slaughtering Yemenis for 5 years now (90 thousand children slaughtered, 14 million Yemenis on brink of famine as we speak)...but what makes headline news? an attack on an oil refinery in Saudia Arabia and how it might affect oil prices.

just completely disgusting.

Exactly, man if you want to talk about human right, Jamal Khashoggi was murdered in the worst way possible by the Saudi crown prince's people. Do you see the American government make any noise about that?

Let's face it, there is an anti-China movement going on in the US politics and media. All these human right thingy are just being used to justify that movement, not the other way around. If tomorrow China reaches a trade deal with Trump and start to behave like a good boy just like the Saudis and follow American politicians' every order, all will be quiet and well.

[mixerball]

If you ask me Morey is done/finished. There's no coming back from this. Maybe they relieve him of his duties in private but still pay him while the guy next in line handles the day to day operations or something of that nature. Yesterday on NBA Sirius XM, during one of the shows, they said that each team could potentially lose $200-400 million in value because of this China situation. So I don't think its just the CCP that is pissed and wants Morey gone.

no way. moreys job is safer than pandas right now. if morey has to go the nba is done.

[Fable]

Unsubstantiated, except for those who did substantiate it. Like US intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Mueller Report, and every other investigation made into it. Oh, except by Russia and Trump, they deny it, I'll give you that.

Since you're a very knowledgeable person and have "US intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Mueller Report, and every other investigation" behind you. Go on. Substantiate it. Give me and Americans evidence. Sources.
No. Steele dossier about "golden showers" doesn't count.
Remember how Mueller was going to prove Trump collusion with Russia? I remember how Democrats pinned everything on Mueller and "collusion with Putin".

The Russians have been accused of similar meddling in France and Germany, too.
And he's right that all the intelligence agencies and the Mueller Report claimed it was conclusive that Russia meddled in the 2016 election. There were even indictments issued in relation to it.
So there is mounds of evidence, and the Steele Dossier has nothing to do with any of it. Not sure why anyone would deny it at this point, unless they believe in some global conspiracy to besmirch a blameless Russia, which, frankly, is beyond farfetched.

"been accused"
"claimed"
"indictments"
I asked you one simple question - give me and Americans evidence. Let me explain you that accusations are not evidence. Claims are not evidence, even if these are claims from such venerable organizations like CIA who lied about Iraq and Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction". Indictments are not evidence. Believe CIA and "US intelligence agencies", I mean they were totally right about Iraq and Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction".
Believe "Trump's collusion with Russia" and Mueller report. Believe Steele dossier with golden shower allegations.

[13th Man]

If you ask me Morey is done/finished. There's no coming back from this. Maybe they relieve him of his duties in private but still pay him while the guy next in line handles the day to day operations or something of that nature. Yesterday on NBA Sirius XM, during one of the shows, they said that each team could potentially lose $200-400 million in value because of this China situation. So I don't think its just the CCP that is pissed and wants Morey gone.

no way. moreys job is safer than pandas right now. if morey has to go the nba is done.

What's I find a bit funny was that Tilman Fertitta was caught smashing the like buttons on Instagram posts calling for Morey to be fired. lol.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Since you're a very knowledgeable person and have "US intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Mueller Report, and every other investigation" behind you. Go on. Substantiate it. Give me and Americans evidence. Sources.
No. Steele dossier about "golden showers" doesn't count.
Remember how Mueller was going to prove Trump collusion with Russia? I remember how Democrats pinned everything on Mueller and "collusion with Putin".

The Russians have been accused of similar meddling in France and Germany, too.
And he's right that all the intelligence agencies and the Mueller Report claimed it was conclusive that Russia meddled in the 2016 election. There were even indictments issued in relation to it.
So there is mounds of evidence, and the Steele Dossier has nothing to do with any of it. Not sure why anyone would deny it at this point, unless they believe in some global conspiracy to besmirch a blameless Russia, which, frankly, is beyond farfetched.

"been accused"
"claimed"
"indictments"
I asked you one simple question - give me and Americans evidence. Let me explain you that accusations are not evidence. Claims are not evidence, even if these are claims from such venerable organizations like CIA who lied about Iraq and Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction". Indictments are not evidence. Believe CIA and "US intelligence agencies", I mean they were totally right about Iraq and Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction".
Believe "Trump's collusion with Russia" and Mueller report. Believe Steele dossier with golden shower allegations.

Yep. The USA government (like all governments sadly) has lied to the people WAY too many times to be believed automatically. Yet because it fits our own narratives and agenda's, people will accept it as gospel as long as it sides with their POV. We are all guilty of this, but the goal should be to improve this aspect of our perspective as we get older and more mature.

[so_bored]

This has really become bigger than basketball or perhaps even money itself.

This is my opinion being pro-democracy. If China continues to over-react and not give in an inch, the NBA should walk away from China completely and tell them to go F themselves. We need to stand up for our values as well. Negotiating is about finding some middle ground while both parties have their integrity in tact. It simply cannot work if it's too one-sided....unless if you're willing to sell out or values and your integrity completely.

NBA already has sold out their values and integrity for money though. Its product has not been a genuine sport for about a decade and it's purely an entertainment business now.

[OkcSinceSGA]

As my favorite Philosophy professor always told me... Question everything! Search for the facts yourself, listen to multiple perspectives and form your OWN conclusions. I don't care if it's CNN, NBC, FOX etc. They all have their own agenda and should be taken with skepticism. Don't let the media control your views on life.

[NBAFan93]

Agreed. That is just stupid and borderlining on racist imo. Minus points for the Sixers organization, just plain stupidity and selling out. The NBA is all over the map with this, very disappointing.

Do you support Americans having a voice or not? Or only on certain issues that suits your stance? Disgusting.

They are playing with a Chinese team (Guangzhou Loong Lions). What about respecting your foreign guests and make them feel welcomed in your arena? That's not something American do anymore?

Straw man argument.

No one is saying the signs represent ideal behavior.

The point is that it should be tolerated because in America we allow free speech even if it's uncomfortable, wrong or innapropriate.

And these signs aren't even insulting or offensive.

I didn’t even realize they were playing a Chinese team. That changes the context of the signs some. But honestly still think it was probably wrong to kick them out. It’s a really complicated situation. I guess this would be like anti trump signs at a game where nba players were playing overseas. Don’t think we’d care about that as the US, but that’s our culture and it’s different.

[13th Man]

This has really become bigger than basketball or perhaps even money itself.

This is my opinion being pro-democracy. If China continues to over-react and not give in an inch, the NBA should walk away from China completely and tell them to go F themselves. We need to stand up for our values as well. Negotiating is about finding some middle ground while both parties have their integrity in tact. It simply cannot work if it's too one-sided....unless if you're willing to sell out or values and your integrity completely.

NBA already has sold out their values and integrity for money though. Its product has not been a genuine sport for about a decade and it's purely an entertainment business now.

Sad but true.

[wco81]

Nah, NBA is better than ever.

You want fat guys like Shaq bulling over smaller players, that's better basketball?

Give me a break.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

NBA cancels the All-Star Game in North Carolina because they couldn’t decide which bathrooms to use but cuddle up with a communist/socialist country that executes people for being gay or transgender. They say they promote free speech, allowing players to express their political views but kick out two fans for doing the same thing, holding pro Hong Kong signs during a game. Which ever side of the aisle you're on THIS is socialism/communism. I'm happy people are finally getting to see what its really about.

There are plenty of places more socialist than the US who also enjoy a higher level of press and business freedom than the US. This is about authoritarianism.

I don't know what more socialist than the US means, nor do I care because I dont live there. China is a communist country with an authoritarian leader, both things are ****.

" I don't care about countries I don't live in, also I do care so I'm going to post about them "

Anyway, there's a difference between socialism in the US (like public schools, social security) and communism in China (State owned enterprises). But neither have anything to do with the human rights violations perpetrated by their authoritarian government.

[TinmanZBoy]

As my favorite Philosophy professor always told me... Question everything! Search for the facts yourself, listen to multiple perspectives and form your OWN conclusions. I don't care if it's CNN, NBC, FOX etc. They all have their own agenda and should be taken with skepticism. Don't let the media control your views on life.

Very true... try to understand first, then opine on it...

[CIN-C-STAR]

Since you're a very knowledgeable person and have "US intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Mueller Report, and every other investigation" behind you. Go on. Substantiate it. Give me and Americans evidence. Sources.
No. Steele dossier about "golden showers" doesn't count.
Remember how Mueller was going to prove Trump collusion with Russia? I remember how Democrats pinned everything on Mueller and "collusion with Putin".

The Russians have been accused of similar meddling in France and Germany, too.
And he's right that all the intelligence agencies and the Mueller Report claimed it was conclusive that Russia meddled in the 2016 election. There were even indictments issued in relation to it.
So there is mounds of evidence, and the Steele Dossier has nothing to do with any of it. Not sure why anyone would deny it at this point, unless they believe in some global conspiracy to besmirch a blameless Russia, which, frankly, is beyond farfetched.

Not true. The entire premise for even investigating and obtaining FISA warrants (clear abuse of power) was centered on an unsubstantiated Steele Dossier. Without the FISA warrants, no investigation happens. When your evidence of something is "US intelligence agencies say it's true" or "People were charged for it"... you clearly don't understand what evidence is. The US government deals with plenty of it's own corruption and abuse of power and REGULARLY brings down it's political enemies with trumped up or false charges. It's literally a past time for the FBI and CIA. It's a huge reason multiple presidents like JFK have gone to war with intelligence agencies and their unchecked abuse of power. Appeal to authority fallacy doesn't mean something is true.

I'm a registered Democrat (who's gotten more conservative as I've hit my 30's) and anyone with any sort of ability to look at this situation with an open mind, and fact find for themselves can see the coup attempt here. I am someone who rooted against Trump and saw this corruption by the intelligence agencies, media etc and now find myself defending him half of the time. This was the most brazen coup attempt in USA history. I never thought we'd see a Banana Republic here or a witch hunt like you typically see in "3rd world" elections. The "law and order" of this country has become... make an accusation with zero evidence, then FIND a crime later, move the goal post and charge someone.

People don't understand that China, Korea, Russia, USA, UK, Poland etc all try to hack each other and sway elections every day. The charges in the Russia investigation were based on moved goal posts. The original premise was "Trump worked with Russia to hack/alter an election and win". That moved to "obstruction". Now they are using Ukraine, the bitter enemy of Russia as his way of cheating!? Nobody sees how laughable this is? China actually killed thousands of our assets, continuously abuses us on trade and financially, is caught spying on us constantly and yet "Muh Russia!" is everything people want to talk about. Snowden exposed our brutal spying and abuse of power in Germany and instead of being held accountable we started a historic manhunt to try to bring the guy down. Assange is facing multiple life sentences/extradition for releasing information that is seemingly accurate. I don't see why we would be trying SO hard to capture/destroy guys like Snowden/Assange if they were just spilling some crazy conspiracy theories. That is NOT how a democracy or sound legal system is supposed to work. The whole goal is innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

Look at this stupid random whistleblower controversy. One whistleblower was exposed as a Democrat operative basically, then suddenly they put another forward defended by the same lawyer, as if that changes anything. Same thing happens with sexual accusers. When one is proven to be unreliable, they simply throw 3 new ones out of nowhere to attack whoever the target is. How about we stop coming to conclusions or taking sides without sound evidence?

As Chuck Schumer famously said... Democrat Sen. Chuck Schumer spoke of in glee, in response to then-president-elect Trump’s criticism of U.S. intelligence agencies. “Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC’s host Rachel Maddow.

This is basically admitting that they will target political enemies and seek revenge.

Russia absolutely is not our friends and surely wants to see us fail and collapse. So does China, NOKO, Iran.. and honestly probably half of the world. The USA is no better in this regard either. Everyone is after power.

You've been misled my friend.
The FISA warrant was issued in response to a Trump campaign official, Papadapolous, telling the Australian ambassador that Russia had dirt on Sec. Clinton that would leak before the election.
The ambassador told US intelligence officials, and that kicked off the investigation.
The dossier was provided as supporting evidence, but in no way was "the entire premise" for the FISA warrant.
Was the dossier circumstantial evidence at best, that should have been left out of the warrant application? Sure, but a warrant application is not like a criminal trial, and it's not uncommon to present weak or circumstantial evidence when asking for a warrant.
The Trump team has taken the weakest part of the supporting evidence presented in the FISA warrant application and attempted to spin it that the entire investigation was about the dossier, which is not remotely true at all. It was leaks from his own campaign about Russia meddling in our election that started the investigation, and rightfully so, as the meddling itself is already concerning, but the fact that officials in the Trump campaign knew about them was even more concerning.
The idea that investigating something that so obviously warranted being investigated is a "coup" is conspiracy propaganda pushed by Trump's team.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/politics/how-fbi-russia-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html

[seccom]

More trash form China:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7553127/Even-death-Uighurs-feel-long-reach-Chinese-state.html

they've been doing this for years, unreported in the mainstream media. NBA knew this was happening and they were still expanding in China.

HK get attention because HK still has a free press and most important, uncensored internet.

The Uighurs could not get their messages out of the CCP's firewall. I am not sure what we can do about it.

[Danny1616]

Since you're a very knowledgeable person and have "US intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Mueller Report, and every other investigation" behind you. Go on. Substantiate it. Give me and Americans evidence. Sources.
No. Steele dossier about "golden showers" doesn't count.
Remember how Mueller was going to prove Trump collusion with Russia? I remember how Democrats pinned everything on Mueller and "collusion with Putin".

The Russians have been accused of similar meddling in France and Germany, too.
And he's right that all the intelligence agencies and the Mueller Report claimed it was conclusive that Russia meddled in the 2016 election. There were even indictments issued in relation to it.
So there is mounds of evidence, and the Steele Dossier has nothing to do with any of it. Not sure why anyone would deny it at this point, unless they believe in some global conspiracy to besmirch a blameless Russia, which, frankly, is beyond farfetched.

Not true. The entire premise for even investigating and obtaining FISA warrants (clear abuse of power) was centered on an unsubstantiated Steele Dossier. Without the FISA warrants, no investigation happens. When your evidence of something is "US intelligence agencies say it's true" or "People were charged for it"... you clearly don't understand what evidence is. The US government deals with plenty of it's own corruption and abuse of power and REGULARLY brings down it's political enemies with trumped up or false charges. It's literally a past time for the FBI and CIA. It's a huge reason multiple presidents like JFK have gone to war with intelligence agencies and their unchecked abuse of power. Appeal to authority fallacy doesn't mean something is true.

I'm a registered Democrat (who's gotten more conservative as I've hit my 30's) and anyone with any sort of ability to look at this situation with an open mind, and fact find for themselves can see the coup attempt here. I am someone who rooted against Trump and saw this corruption by the intelligence agencies, media etc and now find myself defending him half of the time. This was the most brazen coup attempt in USA history. I never thought we'd see a Banana Republic here or a witch hunt like you typically see in "3rd world" elections. The "law and order" of this country has become... make an accusation with zero evidence, then FIND a crime later, move the goal post and charge someone.

People don't understand that China, Korea, Russia, USA, UK, Poland etc all try to hack each other and sway elections every day. The charges in the Russia investigation were based on moved goal posts. The original premise was "Trump worked with Russia to hack/alter an election and win". That moved to "obstruction" or using social media to influence people (then they found out that a ton of these ads/bots were PRO DNC and the topic died quickly. Now they are using Ukraine, the bitter enemy of Russia as his way of cheating!? Nobody sees how laughable this is? China actually killed thousands of our assets, continuously abuses us on trade and financially, is caught spying on us constantly and yet "Muh Russia!" is everything people want to talk about. Snowden exposed our brutal spying and abuse of power in Germany and instead of being held accountable we started a historic manhunt to try to bring the guy down. Assange is facing multiple life sentences/extradition for releasing information that is seemingly accurate. I don't see why we would be trying SO hard to capture/destroy guys like Snowden/Assange if they were just spilling some crazy conspiracy theories. That is NOT how a democracy or sound legal system is supposed to work. The whole goal is innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

Look at this stupid random whistleblower controversy. One whistleblower was exposed as a Democrat operative basically, then suddenly they put another forward defended by the same lawyer, as if that changes anything. Same thing happens with sexual accusers. When one is proven to be unreliable, they simply throw 3 new ones out of nowhere to attack whoever the target is. How about we stop coming to conclusions or taking sides without sound evidence?

As Chuck Schumer famously said... Democrat Sen. Chuck Schumer spoke of in glee, in response to then-president-elect Trump’s criticism of U.S. intelligence agencies. “Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC’s host Rachel Maddow.

This is basically admitting that they will target political enemies and seek revenge.

Russia absolutely is not our friends and surely wants to see us fail and collapse. So does China, NOKO, Iran.. and honestly probably half of the world. The USA is no better in this regard either. Everyone is after power.

You fail to mention that Trump is a pathological liar who says things everyday that are impeachable on its face.

Every situation that comes up Trump exacerbates by whining like a little boy, attacking anybody who opposes him, perpetuating unsubstantiated conspiracies, and even admitting to do something and then deflecting it by attacking everyone else.

This dude invites foreign leaders to the White House lawn and starts complaining about the media, crowd sizes, Obama, and Hilary.

He tweets every 15 minutes, instead of doing his job. The dude really watching the media the entire day, and lashes out against anyone who criticizes him and then praises anyone who supports him.

That's the real issue here.

[NBAFan93]

What is Steve kerrs and Pops opinion on this matter? Why are they so quiet? What about LeBron? Isn’t he the one who said he wouldn’t shut up and dribble. Why is he shutting up and dribbling when it comes to China?

Steve Kerr and pop have a big opinion on anything trump related but money talks and money is telling them to shut up and coach. Such hypocrites


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This. Though, it's expected from Lebron who is the biggest front runner there ever is. Of course he would stfu and bend his ass over for China.

I believe Pop spoke on the matter yesterday btw. He supported Silver’s statement.