Fultz vs Elfrid

[otownflava21]

Now before you get all riled up...read what I’m about to ask in further clarity. Do you believe Fultz this season can eclipse what you would say was Elfrid’s best season with the Magic? Do you believe Fultz right now is already “clearly” better than Elfrid was with us? Or do you believe by the end of the season he’ll surpass Elfrid’s value? They have an eerily similar game at the moment. I thought it’d be interesting to gauge this board’s opinion. Thanks

[tiderulz]

is Fultz really healthy? that means a lot

[SOUL]

Elfrid would be fine on this team with more shooters, we just needed more shooting at the position when he was here and more consistent defensive efforts out of him, but when he was on, he was good. Obviously having Isaac + improved Vuc + AG would've helped too with the perimeter defense.

But yeah, Fultz still probably has more of a natural shot and seems to be a good distributor like Elfrid was, and has similar defensive potential.. but obviously Fultz has the potential to be really good.

[Viper1500]

Fultz is already a better defender than Elfrid ever was here.


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[fateis007]

We are 3 preseason games in, and he has played 36 games in his career. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

All I can say is, if he can bring this consistent effort (especially on the defensive end) then he will be miles ahead of Payton.

That was always my issue with him. One night he was allstar caliber or all nba defense, next night he was garbage. Never really knew that he would bring game in game out.

[drsd]

Looking at post-hair-cut Payton's stats, he is starting to look a lot like Shaun Livingston to me. That means I can see Payton to be well placed on a title contender playing 15-20 mpg as a back-up PG.

[pepe1991]

Looking at post-hair-cut Payton's stats, he is starting to look a lot like Shaun Livingston to me. That means I can see Payton to well placed on a title contender playing 15-20 mpg as a back-up PG.

Livingstone without lick of defense.

Payton last year was 67th among PGs in defensive plus minus.

Also big part of Livngstone is his off court value and how much players respected him, guy literally was close to never run again, to be one of only 10 active players from 2004 draft last year. Think about it.

Payton, much like Hezonja and few others from that 2012-2015 draft will always be looked through " what he could become if he put his priorities in order sooner". Now, at 25, he can be lucky to just hang in there for contracts. And being 25 he is what he is. Point guard who does not shoot or defend.

[shadrock]

To early to really compare the two, as we arent really sure what we have yet with Fultz. Fultz is way more athletic though, even if we assume their jumpshots are both broken.

Ive decided im giving Fultz a month to get into game shape first. Hes hasnt played in like 10 months.

[Tarheel]

Fultz is more athletic, a better finisher and a far better defender than Elfrid was already.

Neither of them can shoot, though Fultz may regain that ability in time.

Elfrid's best season here was 13ppg, 4rpg, 6.2apg and 1.5stlpg.

Can Markelle eclipse those numbers this season? Probably not. If he played the same minutes that Elf did that season (28.6 per) then I think he could, but not with DJ playing starter's minutes.

[SOUL]

Fultz is more athletic, a better finisher and a far better defender than Elfrid was already.

Neither of them can shoot, though Fultz may regain that ability in time.

Elfrid's best season here was 13ppg, 4rpg, 6.2apg and 1.5stlpg.

Can Markelle eclipse those numbers this season? Probably not. If he played the same minutes that Elf did that season (28.6 per) then I think he could, but not with DJ playing starter's minutes.

Definitely not a better finisher, not enough data to show how Fultz's finishing is. Elfrid's finishing was actually really good for a PG. I think they pace the game similarly and obviously both can pass the ball, but Fultz does have an edge on athleticism/probing the lane as well as defending, I think at least.

[Knightro]

One of life’s great mysteries to me is how Elfrid Payton somehow defended at a high level as a rookie and then slowly fell off the map on that end of the floor.

Rookie: 9th best PG in DRPM
Year 2: 16th best
Year 3: 29th best
Year 4: 63rd best
Year 5: 68th best

[SOUL]

One of life’s great mysteries to me is how Elfrid Payton somehow defended at a high level as a rookie and then slowly fell off the map on that end of the floor.

Rookie: 9th best PG in DRPM
Year 2: 16th best
Year 3: 29th best
Year 4: 63rd best
Year 5: 68th best

I remember he was very handsy in the beginning and kept getting called for cheap fouls, then got a little less aggressive there, and by the 4th/5th year, he kept dying on screens. P&R with Vuc was a problem but it still seems to be a problem with DJ, while the team paint defense has gotten better with Vuc improving, as well as Gordon and Isaac being there.

That being said, he was still average his 3rd year, and I remember people saying he was bad his 2nd year defensively which wasn't true at all. The big slide came in his 4th year.

[tiderulz]

One of life’s great mysteries to me is how Elfrid Payton somehow defended at a high level as a rookie and then slowly fell off the map on that end of the floor.

Rookie: 9th best PG in DRPM
Year 2: 16th best
Year 3: 29th best
Year 4: 63rd best
Year 5: 68th best

always surprised me too. He was the college defensive player of the year and conference player of the year. I expected him to play much better than he did on defense

[MagicStarwipe]

Having a new coach every year didn't help. None of our players really flourished during those years.

[MoMM]

Fultz is more athletic, a better finisher and a far better defender than Elfrid was already.

Neither of them can shoot, though Fultz may regain that ability in time.

Elfrid's best season here was 13ppg, 4rpg, 6.2apg and 1.5stlpg.

Can Markelle eclipse those numbers this season? Probably not. If he played the same minutes that Elf did that season (28.6 per) then I think he could, but not with DJ playing starter's minutes.

Definitely not a better finisher, not enough data to show how Fultz's finishing is. Elfrid's finishing was actually really good for a PG. I think they pace the game similarly and obviously both can pass the ball, but Fultz does have an edge on athleticism/probing the lane as well as defending, I think at least.

I believe that his data from NCAA is enough to say he is a better finisher than Payton.

Payton has a 13.5p/5.3r/8a/1.6s PER36 over his career, Fultz has 13.5p/6r/6a/1.5s, so with minor improvements (aka being healthy and playing on a regular basis) he will be better than Payton this season.

As for Payton, he is a good player, but not starting material (at least nowadays, perhaps in the 80s), but he can be a good backup in a playoff team, IMO, however he definitely needs to improve his motor/stamina (and probably he won't).

Also, it's nice to see that Shaun came back and he is still playing after 15 years, but he was a #4 pick and he was supposed to be one of the best PGs of his generation, so "still plays, never averaged more than 10ppg" isn't a great thing to me, but at least he got some nice paychecks and Jay Williams must be jealous about it

[Blue_and_Whte]

Fultz is already a better defender than Elfrid ever was here.


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I was about to say the same thing. Defensive potential nothing, he's already a better defensive player and scorer than Elf. Once he gets his NBA legs and shakes off the rust his offensive ability will come through.

[j-ragg]

Fultz is more athletic, a better finisher and a far better defender than Elfrid was already.

Neither of them can shoot, though Fultz may regain that ability in time.

Elfrid's best season here was 13ppg, 4rpg, 6.2apg and 1.5stlpg.

Can Markelle eclipse those numbers this season? Probably not. If he played the same minutes that Elf did that season (28.6 per) then I think he could, but not with DJ playing starter's minutes.

Definitely not a better finisher, not enough data to show how Fultz's finishing is. Elfrid's finishing was actually really good for a PG. I think they pace the game similarly and obviously both can pass the ball, but Fultz does have an edge on athleticism/probing the lane as well as defending, I think at least.

Yup for all EP’s missed jumpers... he really was elite at finishing at the rim. I wonder what our team would’ve looked like if Rob on draft night told Philly f you and we took Lavine instead.

[Nyce_1]

Having a new coach every year didn't help. None of our players really flourished during those years.

This should end the discussion. Elf, and our other young players, had to deal with instability and bad coaches. Elf under Cliff maybe would have changed the trajectory of his career.

I'd still welcome him back as a backup.

[drsd]

This should end the discussion. Elf, and our other young players, had to deal with instability and bad coaches. Elf under Cliff maybe would have changed the trajectory of his career.

I'd still welcome him back as a backup.

This made my question, "would I rather Orlando had Carter-Williams or Payton?" Though call.


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[Nyce_1]

This should end the discussion. Elf, and our other young players, had to deal with instability and bad coaches. Elf under Cliff maybe would have changed the trajectory of his career.

I'd still welcome him back as a backup.

This made my question, "would I rather Orlando had Carter-Williams or Payton?" Though call.


..

I think EP is better overall PG, but MCW is significantly better defensively. Considering EP is making $8M....give me MCW all day, lol.