Gary Harris

[NuggetsWY]

Without a doubt, one of the best two-way shooting guards in the league today. He doesn't get much attention simply because that isn't his nature. He's willing to do all the little things and let others get all the attention. He's our third best player, at least in the opinion of most and if Porter lives up to potential, Harris will be the fourth best player. It won't change anything about him though. He just gives his best.

The biggest problem is injuries. His seasons since coming into the NBA: 55 games, 76 games, 57 games, 67 games, 57 games. If he can not avoid injuries, Beasley might over take him as the starter.

Harris attempts around 11 shots per game with 4 of those being 3pt shots. I'd love for him to take about 15 shots per game - take the open shots more often. But that's just not his style.

[Coeur]

How excited are you for 2-6 years from now w this guy?


I like Torrey Craig better than Harris

[NuggetsWY]

How excited are you for 2-6 years from now w this guy?

I like Torrey Craig better than Harris

Well, you like Wiggins too, so ...

[skywalker33]

How excited are you for 2-6 years from now w this guy?

I like Torrey Craig better than Harris

Well, you like Wiggins too, so ...

GREAT POINT !!!

So Coeur, in two years you'd rather have a 31-yr old one-dimensional SG/SF over a 27-yr old, two-way SG in his prime ?? Another great assessment, you prove your sports knowledge time after time

[Coeur]

How excited are you for 2-6 years from now w this guy?

I like Torrey Craig better than Harris

Well, you like Wiggins too, so ...

GREAT POINT !!!

So Coeur, in two years you'd rather have a 31-yr old one-dimensional SG/SF over a 27-yr old, two-way SG in his prime ?? Another great assessment, you prove your sports knowledge time after time

Harris isn’t a 2 way SG.

I don’t think TC will be a 20 mill a year player. If they have him for 10 or less per? Yes I like him better than harris at 20. Right now he’s way more value this cheap

[Coeur]

How excited are you for 2-6 years from now w this guy?

I like Torrey Craig better than Harris

Well, you like Wiggins too, so ...

I have no doubt that Wiggins will be better over 2-6 years from now than Gary Harris.


No reason to keep bringing Wiggins up if you’re just fanboying the current players than nobody can stack up to that. I’m just talking talent, fit, and what the Nugs would need to do to be competitive in the playoffs. I think the sad part is Kroenke believes he doesn’t have to try to win it all when much of the fan base would be so thrilled w a 1 seed that there’s no reason to risk trades to try to win it all.


Any other fan base with a team this deep and this close to really good would be demanding trading the depth to get top 3 or 4 type talents.

[NuggetsWY]

Well, you like Wiggins too, so ...

GREAT POINT !!!

So Coeur, in two years you'd rather have a 31-yr old one-dimensional SG/SF over a 27-yr old, two-way SG in his prime ?? Another great assessment, you prove your sports knowledge time after time

Harris isn’t a 2 way SG.

I don’t think TC will be a 20 mill a year player. If they have him for 10 or less per? Yes I like him better than harris at 20. Right now he’s way more value this cheap

Fascinating concept: "Harris isn't a 2 way SG"
and yet most of the National Announcers, etc call him one of the best two-way guards and/or one of the best wing-defenders in the league.

[NuggetsWY]

How excited are you for 2-6 years from now w this guy?

I like Torrey Craig better than Harris

Well, you like Wiggins too, so ...

I have no doubt that Wiggins will be better over 2-6 years from now than Gary Harris.

No reason to keep bringing Wiggins up if you’re just fanboying the current players than nobody can stack up to that. I’m just talking talent, fit, and what the Nugs would need to do to be competitive in the playoffs. I think the sad part is Kroenke believes he doesn’t have to try to win it all when much of the fan base would be so thrilled w a 1 seed that there’s no reason to risk trades to try to win it all.

Any other fan base with a team this deep and this close to really good would be demanding trading the depth to get top 3 or 4 type talents.

Wiggins, Wiggins, Wiggins - there is not a single RealGM fan besides yourself that likes Wiggins, especially with that contract. Typically he is called things such as "one-dimensional" or "un-motivated".

I've given people short bans for excessive posting on one topic. You are pushing my limits. Only reason you're not banned is because you are somewhat civil about it. But your myopic obsession over Wiggins is reaching the limits of multiple people.

As for your concept of "top talent" - you have no credibility because of your man-crush on Wiggins.
Jokic - Absolute Elite.
Murray - some national media saying he has a shot at being an All-Star this year.
Porter - we'll have to see if he lives up to his hype.
Millsap - one of the best two-way PFs in the league today.
Harris - one of the best two-way SGs in the league today.

Yes, I would love to get Beal. That would be an upgrade even though I love Harris' game.
Grant looks to be a solid two-way player.
Vanderbilt's potential is unknown.
Morris could start on some teams.
Beasley could start on some teams.

That's 9 players that could play on any team in the NBA and even some off our bench could start on some other teams.

If we are supposed to be screaming for a top-3 or top-4 player (let's just say an All-Star); show me which ones are available for trade. Please ignore those with salaries that would destroy our cap for years to come - like the non-star Wiggins.

[skywalker33]

Well, you like Wiggins too, so ...

GREAT POINT !!!

So Coeur, in two years you'd rather have a 31-yr old one-dimensional SG/SF over a 27-yr old, two-way SG in his prime ?? Another great assessment, you prove your sports knowledge time after time

Harris isn’t a 2 way SG.

I don’t think TC will be a 20 mill a year player. If they have him for 10 or less per? Yes I like him better than harris at 20. Right now he’s way more value this cheap

Do you even KNOW what a 2-way player is...apparently NOT !! If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest camper in the world !!

[THE J0KER]

Gary Harris is one of the biggest questions of Nuggets upcoming season. He has great 2017-18 season, but last 2018-19 was step down for him, which can be explained with all those injury problems he has. Will he backs on 2017-18 tracks (or even better), or 2018-19 level is new reality for Harris? Beasley since December was arguably better player, but once playoff started Beasley underperformed while Gary played better than during regular season. I don't like how he started preseason, 7 turnovers vs Clippers is way too much, but that is just a preseason game.

[NuggetsWY]

Gary Harris is one of the biggest questions of Nuggets upcoming season. He has great 2017-18 season, but last 2018-19 was step down for him, which can be explained with all those injury problems he has. Will he backs on 2017-18 tracks (or even better), or 2018-19 level is new reality for Harris? Beasley since December was arguably better player, but once playoff started Beasley underperformed while Gary played better than during regular season. I don't like how he started preseason, 7 turnovers vs Clippers is way too much, but that is just a preseason game.

Totally agree - the reason I like Harris better is because he's such a solid two-way player.
The reason I like Beasley is because of his talent level, athleticism, whatever. The reason Beasley frightens me a little is because he seems to take it easy on defense sometimes.

[LeverRed]

Beasley at 10 million a year is where I would project him to be I believe the Nuggets were right in line with that offer . Beasley betting on himself this a is a very big risk For him to take Given nobody knows have an injury can affect your life and future pay

[THE J0KER]

I opened a thread on General Board about Gary Harris's sensational defense so far this season, but these threads are short living, so I will put key facts here too.

In every of 4 games Denver Nuggets played so far this season, Gary Harris guarded opponents 1st or 2nd offensive options, all well-known around the league as elite scorers, and his success is more than impressive so far.

[NuggetsWY]

I opened a thread on General Board about Gary Harris's sensational defense so far this season, but these threads are short living, so I will put key facts here too.

In every of 4 games Denver Nuggets played so far this season, Gary Harris guarded opponents 1st or 2nd offensive options, all well-known around the league as elite scorers, and his success is more than impressive so far.

and of course with Murray, Barton, Beasley, Morris all more focused on defense, when they get switched onto the stars, they are doing better --- but mostly it's Harris

[skywalker33]

Heard an INTERNET RUMOR ( so you know how credible it is) of Gary Harris, Juancho AND MPJ for D-Lo....after I stopped laughing...

[The Rebel]

I did a quick comparison of defense advanced stats between Harris and the supposed best perimeter defender in the league, thought some of you might enjoy taking a look at it. There were some arguing that Harris is nowhere close to the defender that Jrue is, these numbers say Harris is better.


Jrue gives up 40.7% overall shooting and 33.9% from 3. Harris gives up 40% overall and 34.1% on 3s.

The Nuggets defensive rating overall is 110.4 with Harris on the court it is 107.1 the Pelicans are at 111.8 with Jrue on the court it is 109.5, so Harris improves his team's defense more.


Harris has a DRPM is at 1.92 JRue is at 1.08

Harris is at 1.3 for defensive winshares and Jrue is at 1.9

Defensive bpm Harris is at 0.3 and Jrue is at 0.2

[THE J0KER]

Harris defense is really underrated, and he deserves spot in all-NBA defensive 2nd team at least once in past two seasons despite injuries. But Harris is not two-way player anymore because of his OFFENSE declined badly into 10-3-2 with painful fg%, while Holiday is 20-5-7 (near all-star) in that department. Harris once has 59-60%ts%, but if he recovers at least to 54-55%ts% I will be happy enough to not ask his trade , but 52%ts% two seasons in the row is literally negative impact on offense.

[skywalker33]

Harris defense is really underrated, and he deserves spot in all-NBA defensive 2nd team at least once in past two seasons despite injuries. But Harris is not two-way player anymore because of his OFFENSE declined badly into 10-3-2 with painful fg%, while Holiday is 20-5-7 (near all-star) in that department. Harris once has 59-60%ts%, but if he recovers at least to 54-55%ts% I will be happy enough to not ask his trade , but 52%ts% two seasons in the row is literally negative impact on offense.

Definitely hear your concerns, I think it's somewhat shared by many here. However, please note that while Harris' offense has declined, players like MPJ's and Murray's offense have stepped up, which I expect to continue even more this year. Right now I am more concerned about replacing Grant's defense than Gary's offense.

[The Rebel]

Harris defense is really underrated, and he deserves spot in all-NBA defensive 2nd team at least once in past two seasons despite injuries. But Harris is not two-way player anymore because of his OFFENSE declined badly into 10-3-2 with painful fg%, while Holiday is 20-5-7 (near all-star) in that department. Harris once has 59-60%ts%, but if he recovers at least to 54-55%ts% I will be happy enough to not ask his trade , but 52%ts% two seasons in the row is literally negative impact on offense.

The question was not whether he was a 2 way player, although we can discuss that compared to other defensive guys as well.

As for 2nd team, he arguably should have been 1st team, here are some more stats for you.

DRPM
Beverly 3.01, Harris 1.92, Smart 1.53, Simmons -0.85, Bledsoe -0.95

Smart shooting percentage allowed 42.8, against 3s 33.9%
Simmons shooting percentage allowed 42.3%, against 3s 36.5%
Bledsoe 41.4% and 32.4%
Beverley 41% and 33.6%
Harris was 40% and 34.1%

Simmons defensive rating 107.3 with the 76ers allowing 108.4 overall
Smart defensive rating 104.6 with the Celtics allowing 106.5 overall
Harris defensive rating 107.1 with the Nuggets at 110.4 overall
Beverley defensive rating is 104 with the Clippers at 106.9
Bledsoe defensive rating 100.8 with the Bucks at 102.5
So Harris improves the defensive rating considerably more

Defensive win shares which are accumulative and both the next 2 heavily favor box score stats especially rebounds
Simmons is at 3.1
Smart is at 2.8
Harris is at 1.3
Beverley 2.0
Bledsoe 3.0

defensive box p/m
Simmons is at 2.6
Beverley 2.5
Bledsoe 1.1
Smart is at 1.4
Harris is at 0.3

So in the end that tells us that while Simmons gets a few more steals during the season, and he rebounds considerably better, at the end of the day he has a minor affect on his team's defense, despite the 76ers bench being among the worst in the league.

For all the crap Beverley catches he deserves to be in the conversation of top guard defenders in the league.

While it appears that Bledsoe is a very good defender, a lot of the plus/minus type stats say he was only elite last year because of his teammates. He is on the next tier down though and still better than SImmons.

Smart has a bigger affect on a good defense, and is clearly on of the best perimeter defenders in the league, and all stats put him there.

So the real all defensive teams should have had a combination of Smart, Beverley, Jrue, and Harris. The best guard defender is a real argument with those 4 as the top contenders. Personally I think Smart is the best in the league right now, with Beverley, Jrue, and Harris all having arguments for 2nd best.


Now you brought up TS%, so have you looked at Holiday's TS%?
His career ts% is 52.9% and he put up 53.7% TS last season.

The league average usually floats between 55-56% TS so both are well below average, the Nuggets as a whole shot 56.7% on TS%.

League average on catch and shoot 3s, or spot up 3s is right around 37%, Harris shot 36.7% Jrue shot 36.4%.

So Harris is a better fit in our offense shooting spot up 3s and spreadiing the floor for Jokic/Murray, while Jrue is obviously better at creating for others. But at the end of the day I would rather have the better spot up shooter but bad overall scorer spotted up for 9.3 times a game than a guy having the ball considerably more and shooting 16.5 times a game with the rest of the team shooting those 7 other shots. We get more points. Sorry for what we need it was not worth trading Harris and 2 1st round picks for Jrue, let alone adding more for him. Harris is considerably better than you seem to give him credit for.

[The Rebel]

Harris defense is really underrated, and he deserves spot in all-NBA defensive 2nd team at least once in past two seasons despite injuries. But Harris is not two-way player anymore because of his OFFENSE declined badly into 10-3-2 with painful fg%, while Holiday is 20-5-7 (near all-star) in that department. Harris once has 59-60%ts%, but if he recovers at least to 54-55%ts% I will be happy enough to not ask his trade , but 52%ts% two seasons in the row is literally negative impact on offense.

Definitely hear your concerns, I think it's somewhat shared by many here. However, please note that while Harris' offense has declined, players like MPJ's and Murray's offense have stepped up, which I expect to continue even more this year. Right now I am more concerned about replacing Grant's defense than Gary's offense.

While I think Grant is now overpaid and has become overrated by the media and fans on message boards, we do need to find a way to replace his defense at the 3/4. Millsap due to age and Green due to injuries just cannot cover good SFs anymore. Barton is good but I would love to get a good 3 and D stretch 4 from somewhere.