2019 season speculation including trade ideas

[TheLogician]

I prefer Baynes to Len as our backup C.

I think Baynes is an smarter basketball player on both ends of the court and that is a big difference between them. Len plays like a robot, he doesn't have any feel for the game. He commits too many bad decisions on the court, small things that limits his time on the court because he truly makes your team a bit worse.

That is why he just plays backup minutes... 20 minutes per game in the last three seasons. The Hawks were a terrible team (but better than the Suns) and didn't give him more minutes than that, because he doesn't play winning basketball IMO. He has improved his shooting but he is worse at rebounding.

Baynes can give us better positioning on defense, he is a high character guy and can spread the floor for us.

But Len is more likely to be the cheap back up for years. I'm not sure if Baynes plans are to stick around unless we pay him handsomely and he's turning 33 in early Dec. As much as I like the intangibles of what he brings (toughness, attitude, defensive leadership), he was always going to be a short term "solution".

Last season he showed he could evolve his game from more of a traditional type big into a modern big who can spread the floor but still rebound and defense in the post. I would've liked to have kept him but I understand the rationale for letting him go in favor of focused development for Ayton. We would have been doing Len a disservice by keeping him around and developing him as a back up especially when he had the opportunity to start with the Haws.

Yeah, I like what Baynes brings but the guy won a championship in SA, was with a competitive playoff team in Boston, was just with a competitive FIBA team, and now is on a rebuilding team after saying he wanted to play for a contender.

He's a short timer unless he decides he wants to pull an Ariza and get paid and we pay him a lot...but I'm guessing he will want a buy out or at least will sign elsewhere next year.

I noticed last game Baynes was pretty animated on the bench, high fiving teammates, etc. Hopefully midseason buy outs are a thing of the past.

[bwgood77]

But Len is more likely to be the cheap back up for years. I'm not sure if Baynes plans are to stick around unless we pay him handsomely and he's turning 33 in early Dec. As much as I like the intangibles of what he brings (toughness, attitude, defensive leadership), he was always going to be a short term "solution".

Last season he showed he could evolve his game from more of a traditional type big into a modern big who can spread the floor but still rebound and defense in the post. I would've liked to have kept him but I understand the rationale for letting him go in favor of focused development for Ayton. We would have been doing Len a disservice by keeping him around and developing him as a back up especially when he had the opportunity to start with the Haws.

Yeah, I like what Baynes brings but the guy won a championship in SA, was with a competitive playoff team in Boston, was just with a competitive FIBA team, and now is on a rebuilding team after saying he wanted to play for a contender.

He's a short timer unless he decides he wants to pull an Ariza and get paid and we pay him a lot...but I'm guessing he will want a buy out or at least will sign elsewhere next year.

I noticed last game Baynes was pretty animated on the bench, high fiving teammates, etc. Hopefully midseason buy outs are a thing of the past.

I think if he wanted to join a contender and we were out of it we'd first try to trade him, but if we couldn't get a second we would probably buy him out based on how they have tried to show they are player friendly now and are trying to establish a better reputation with players around the league.

[Mystical Apples]

As a rookie Kaminsky played 1900 minutes and started PO games for a 50 win SRS team. Doubt Bender going into his 22-year-old season gives Milwaukee anything close to that production.

Besides, sometimes is just time to move on. Bender needed a fresh start which he’ll get in Milwaukee without the pressure of being the 4th overall pick. Phoenix needed a legit front court offensive weapon balancing the floor for Ayton and Booker. He serves as a primary bench option, too, something Bender will never be.

Bender's first couple of seasons were a bit like Frank's at Wisconsin. Frank kind of emerged his junior year but Igor didn't put him in the rotation here until the end of the year, so he really got limited burn here under 3 coaches. He was always a long term development project. Frank was older as a rookie than Bender will be this year. Of course he won't do much for the Bucks being that they are a contender, but I think it's possible he turns into something the next year or two.

Of course this year Kaminsky is the better backup to have if you are really trying to maximize wins. Bender is like the 14th or 15th guy for the Bucks, and won't play but is a nice cheap development piece they have now where if he doesn't pan out to anything, no big deal.

Kaminsky is kind of a finished project. He's ok..I like his offensive skill set...and at least he's funny....we could use more sense of humor on the Suns.

Classifying rookie Kaminsky as older than current Bender is kinda splitting hairs. Both are 22-year-old seasons with Bender also benefiting from pro training for a handful years.

Anyways, I’m rooting for both. I would’ve kept Bender and signed Kaminsky which may or may not have been in Bender’s best interest. The sneaky benefit of re-booting with Milwaukee is following the likes of Jon Henson, Tyler Zeller, and Thon Maker. For real, Maker was terrible and Bender gets coach Bud now.

[TheLogician]

Yeah, I like what Baynes brings but the guy won a championship in SA, was with a competitive playoff team in Boston, was just with a competitive FIBA team, and now is on a rebuilding team after saying he wanted to play for a contender.

He's a short timer unless he decides he wants to pull an Ariza and get paid and we pay him a lot...but I'm guessing he will want a buy out or at least will sign elsewhere next year.

I noticed last game Baynes was pretty animated on the bench, high fiving teammates, etc. Hopefully midseason buy outs are a thing of the past.

I think if he wanted to join a contender and we were out of it we'd first try to trade him, but if we couldn't get a second we would probably buy him out based on how they have tried to show they are player friendly now and are trying to establish a better reputation with players around the league.

I'm optimistic here. He has a great opportunity to get minutes and show he deserves a lucrative extension or free agent contract. I don't think Jones would have brought him in if he didn't want to be here. He's cleared out all the guys who were malcontents.

[Crives]

I noticed last game Baynes was pretty animated on the bench, high fiving teammates, etc. Hopefully midseason buy outs are a thing of the past.

I think if he wanted to join a contender and we were out of it we'd first try to trade him, but if we couldn't get a second we would probably buy him out based on how they have tried to show they are player friendly now and are trying to establish a better reputation with players around the league.

I'm optimistic here. He has a great opportunity to get minutes and show he deserves a lucrative extension or free agent contract. I don't think Jones would have brought him in if he didn't want to be here. He's cleared out all the guys who were malcontents.

If this group starts to gel... I could see us giving big 1 yr deals to Tyler/Baynes to roll our cap to the big 2021 FA class.

[bwgood77]

I noticed last game Baynes was pretty animated on the bench, high fiving teammates, etc. Hopefully midseason buy outs are a thing of the past.

I think if he wanted to join a contender and we were out of it we'd first try to trade him, but if we couldn't get a second we would probably buy him out based on how they have tried to show they are player friendly now and are trying to establish a better reputation with players around the league.

I'm optimistic here. He has a great opportunity to get minutes and show he deserves a lucrative extension or free agent contract. I don't think Jones would have brought him in if he didn't want to be here. He's cleared out all the guys who were malcontents.

It initially sounded like he was surprised he was traded here. Apparently had opted in to final year of Celtics contract with the understanding they would try to trade him to a contender. I think he will be solid to start the year as we are good. If we are clearly out of it, there wouldn't be any reason to hang onto him until the end of the season if he wants out. But if he is happy and wants to stay and is playing well, that would be good....and maybe would help Ayton.

He will be 33 soon though so probably will sign elsewhere next season unless we offer him a bunch of money. Besides liking Holmes energy, youth and cheering on Ayton, being a great teammate, I liked his small cap hold...obviously that is all water under the bridge at this point though. Backup decent centers in their prime or fits our age range a little better next year will likely be cheap though.

[Weemsickew14]

Mikal Bridges in my opinion needs to be in the starting lineup this season.

[SuperSunsFan]

how many of you like me don't even have the courage to look up stats of Branden clarke in the preseason, i am not even sure if he has played anything games at all, Cam Johnson just as expected is an underwhelming old rookie who most likely won't amount to anything more than a bench player, if Branden Clarke turns out to be the next shawn marion predicted by many knowledgeable math guys and posters here I don't know if i could resist the urge to bang my head on the wall repeatedly or punch a hole through my monitor.

[TheLogician]

how many of you like me don't even have the courage to look up stats of Branden clarke in the preseason, i am not even sure if he has played anything games at all, Cam Johnson just as expected is an underwhelming old rookie who most likely won't amount to anything more than a bench player, if Branden Clarke turns out to be the next shawn marion predicted by many knowledgeable math guys and posters here I don't know if i could resist the urge to bang my head on the wall repeatedly or punch a hole through my monitor.

Go ahead and look. Cam wouldn’t have been my pick but it was a pretty weak draft. At least he should be able to help stretch the floor.

[sunsbg]

Clarke still looks like a stiff to me, not starter material, but I'm not a knowledgeable math or basketball guy probably. Not sure why nobody mentions that NAW guy that actually looks good, but everybody keeps bringing Clarke.

[lilfishi22]

Clarke still looks like a stiff to me, not starter material, but I'm not a knowledgeable math or basketball guy probably. Not sure why nobody mentions that NAW guy that actually looks good, but everybody keeps bringing Clarke.

I wanted NAW or Clark at 11

[Young gun 6]

NAW or Rui I would’ve loved with our pick.

Hopefully trading down and taking Johnson doesn’t haunt us with someone like Coby White already showing good potential.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

- Ayton has definitely improved. He's been connecting on screens, pushing his man on the block, and containing penetration to the rim. So, several areas of improvement. But his energy level still seems pretty ho-hum overall. I think that's just who he is.

- Rubio's been good for us, too. Showing leadership, setting guys up, and most importantly, making plays on defense. BUT his shooting has definitely been a problem for Booker, as Book gets doubled on the drive and Rubio is the man left open - and Rubio hasn't been hitting that three so far.

- Book's been better defensively, though still turnover-prone and a little too interested in lobbying the refs. Love that he's been taking more spot up threes.

- Bridges was good in his limited minutes, looking bigger, going to the rim, and playing great defense. Definitely looking like the starter over Oubre ATM.

- Carter and Jerome have played capably, as well. Jerome has looked especially good for our offense, though he's still getting comfortable with NBA ball.

- I actually thought our defense was pretty good overall last night. Definitely an improvement. Shooting, rebounding, and live turnovers leading to transition points that killed us. I'm pretty astounded that with all the shooting we added this summer, we shot so poorly last night.

- Saric has really struggled so far. Oubre looked like dogsh*t last night. Cam's been close to invisible. When Kaminsky's not on from 3, he's a liability. If this group can't get it together, we're going to have a hole at the 4 again.

I would be more hopeful if I weren't so confused.

[bwgood77]

Hollinger, now at The Athletic, has division previews....about the Suns..

Spoiler:

Phoenix tied for the league’s second-worst record last season, yet somehow it converted the draft pick for it into two backup 4s. Yes, it was another baffling offseason in the desert. Trading down from the sixth pick to 11th and then selecting Cameron Johnson was a head-scratcher, but no more so than trading two seconds to dump Josh Jackson rather than just stretching him, or paying Kelly Oubre $15 million a year when no other team had more than the mid-level exception left to offer him.

In spite of themselves, the Suns will be better. Criticism of Ricky Rubio’s contract is overdone as he is exactly what Phoenix needs: an up-tempo point guard who can create easier looks for Deandre Ayton and Devin Booker. Rubio also injects the league’s most apathetic defensive squad with a bonafide ball hawk. However, the Suns essentially gave up T.J. Warren and four second-round picks to make the Rubio deal possible (one in the Warren deal, two plus 2018 second-rounder DeAnthony Melton in the Jackson trade). Phoenix could have landed in a similar position more expeditiously by using the stretch provision on Tyler Johnson or by declining to re-sign Oubre and stretching Josh Jackson.

Overriding everything is whether the Booker-Ayton core can develop into an All-Star combo. Booker is a phenomenally skilled offensive player who has rapidly progressed as a playmaker over the past two years. Oddly for a player with such a lethal rep, he shot just 32.6% from 3 and is only at 35.4% for his career. Paired with the shaky shooting of Rubio, Booker needs to be a 40% proposition. Defensively, some of his alleged efforts last season were embarrassing. He needs to actually try this year.

The Suns took a lot of heat (har har) for taking Ayton over Luka Doncic, but Ayton delivered a promising rookie year and looks like a core player for the next decade. His defensive awareness remains a work in progress, and paired with the non-efforts of Booker and others a year ago, it was a major problem for the league’s 29th-ranked defense. But uniting Ayton with a real point guard should open up a lot of easier shots for him, and he should thrive in more of an up-tempo game.

At a lower level, the Suns also have to be pleased with second-year pro Mikal Bridges. He doesn’t offer much star potential, but as a 3-and-D role player at the small forward position, he’s a long-term keeper.

Unlike past editions, the Suns’ bench should be a strength. Australian pulverizer Arron Baynes provides a quality backup 5, while Johnson slides in as a useful combo guard alongside Booker or Rubio. Late first-round pick Ty Jerome (Wahoowa!) is a crafty big guard in the mold of Greivis Vasquez, except Jerome is a much better shooter. On the wing, Oubre suffers from a crippling case of dribble blindness and exhibits zero defensive awareness, but he’s a good one-on-one and transition player and can guard on the ball.

The weakest Sun spot (okay, I’ll stop) is power forward, where Phoenix somehow parlayed the sixth pick in the draft into Dario Saric and Johnson. Saric’s defensive shortcomings make him an uneasy fit as a starter next to Booker and Ayton, while his ball skills are better served as part of a second unit.

Behind Saric, Johnson was a serious reach with the 11th pick; he’s already 23 and wasn’t a primary offensive player in college, even at Pitt. He also had question marks regarding his hip entering the draft. Johnson can definitely shoot, but the Suns may have overreacted to an outlier 3-point percentage as a fifth-year senior – he shot 45.7% from 3 in his final season, but was just 34.1% the year before and 40.6% for his college career.

Finally, keep an eye on Cheick Diallo. He may never see the floor in this big man rotation, but he’s an energetic rebounder who just turned 23. Offensively he came along nicely in New Orleans last season, flashing some real midrange touch as the year wore on.

Prediction: 31-51, 4th in Pacific, 13th in Western Conference

[handsome salary]

Looking forward to when the opposing team actually has to come up with game plan other than "play hard a couple of quarters". Don't know when the f that's going to happen though.

[King4Day]

We look good one game (first preseason game) and everything is rosey.
We look bad the next game, and the sky is falling and Cam is a bust.

Can we at least wait until game 3 of the preseason before we confidently say what our entire season will look like, who we'll regret drafting, signing, trading, etc? Golly

[bwgood77]

We look good one game (first preseason game) and everything is rosey.
We look bad the next game, and the sky is falling and Cam is a bust.

Can we at least wait until game 3 of the preseason before we confidently say what our entire season will look like, who we'll regret drafting, signing, trading, etc? Golly

We should wait at least 10 games into the regular season, and more importantly, how we improve throughout the season. This is still largely a development year for our players. Ayton's improvement, our rookies, Bridges, Oubre with off ball defensive awareness, and not being so streaky on offense. Hitting our 3s, how everyone meshes, whether Booker can really largely play off ball not leaving Rubio standing in the corner without a defender on him (since we went for him over making a move like Indy did for Brogdon, if he would have played for us), what the coaching looks like, if Saric can improve after his down year, etc.

[sunsbg]

I only hope Monty is a good coach and teaches them to play the right way.

I don't know about Ayton shooting 3s, but he certainly shouldn't be 0 FTPG player.

Booker certainly shouldn't have a problem co-existing with a real PG.

Bad signs for both as franchise players.

As for the team it's remarkable a professional team shot the ball so bad from 3 as they did in the last game.

[Saberestar]

We look good one game (first preseason game) and everything is rosey.
We look bad the next game, and the sky is falling and Cam is a bust.

Can we at least wait until game 3 of the preseason before we confidently say what our entire season will look like, who we'll regret drafting, signing, trading, etc? Golly

We should wait at least 10 games into the regular season, and more importantly, how we improve throughout the season. This is still largely a development year for our players. Ayton's improvement, our rookies, Bridges, Oubre with off ball defensive awareness, and not being so streaky on offense. Hitting our 3s, how everyone meshes, whether Booker can really largely play off ball not leaving Rubio standing in the corner without a defender on him (since we went for him over making a move like Indy did for Brogdon, if he would have played for us), what the coaching looks like, if Saric can improve after his down year, etc.

So many questions and challenges and too many good teams in the West. Bad combination to win games.

That is why I would love to just improve 10 games over last season (from 19 to 29 wins). That would be a big step in the right direction.

Every game is gonna be tough. We play only a couple of times against the Hornets, who is the only really bad team in the league.