Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I]

[clyde21]

I wont lie, Ive been underwhelmed by Zion. His weight gain scares the crap out of me, that is now 2 straight years he has put on weight. One of my favorite things about Zion was his defense. Lets be real he has been one of the worse defenders getting big minutes so far in the preseason. The movement isn't there, it looks like he just stands in place catching his breath.

Dont get me wrong the dude is fantastic offensively. His IQ and touch is elite. But ya I dont think his defensive struggles are just the normal rookie catching up to speed defensive struggles. I think its a weight and condition thing as well. When I saw how much weight he put on from Duke to SL, I thought okay give him a pass he has been doing a ton of media stuff. Thought we would see some evidence of weight loss since SL, I dont see it. Again 2 straight years of him visibly getting larger (not muscles either), definitely a worry for me if he cant get that under control. Ive been one of his biggest supporters on here for 3 years now.

his defense is gonna follow suit when he gets in game shape and gets used to the NBA pace

Ya that's if he gets in shape though. Look at him as a senior in high school, then look at him at Duke, then look at him now. Its not a good trajectory that he is on. You know me, Im a die hard Zion fan boy, but I cant deny he is not trending in the right direction weight wise the last 2 years. And he is nowhere close to having the cardio to be a 2 way player, which is a key part on why he was such a good prospect. I also have to question, how the hell did he let himself get so out of shape since the last Duke game?

i think you're being too harsh, he hasn't even gotten a chance to be part of an NBA nurtition and training program yet...training camp started what...2 weeks ago? before this preseason his last live game was what, March?

[Kabookalu]

The main thing separating Barkley and Zion is their mean streak. Barkley has one and Zion does not. Barkley weighed a lot less, but used every single pound. Zion seems afraid of his own strength at times. He's known as a power player, but that's mostly from his rim rattling dunks. As mind blowing as his quickness is there are a lot of plays where he'd make it easier on himself if he just bullied his defender. It speaks to Zion's talent that he excels on just athleticism alone even though he's 280 pounds. Barkley excelled at feeling out his defender on post ups and spinning away from them when needed. When Zion spins though it's premeditated. If he approached posts ups the same way Barkley did there's just no stopping him.

By all means Zion should be Barkley on steroids, and that's pretty frightening. Barkley was at one time considered better than Magic and Jordan when they all still played.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Pretty sure Chuck is the reason they made the 5 seconds back to the basket rule. Just a different era in the way the game was played. More ISO, Chuck would back down for as long as he needed to shift the defender's weight, the double to come, or for Chuck to get to his spot. This is Phoenix MVP Chuck btw. I didn't see a lot of Sixers Chuck.

I had no clue about this. But ya googling it now, I do see a lot of people calling it the Charles Barkley rule. If that is the case, then ya that would be the opposite of Zion.

I watched Barkley live and he flat out would back someone down with his big rear end starting 10 to 15 feet out and then spin to the basket finishing like no other. Similar girth but different games. Maybe Zion takes on the better parts of Barkley's game but right now, they are not the same.

Sir Charles got the nickname the round mound of rebound when he was a very young player.

Tell me Charles doesn't remind you of Zion in this highlight reel:

Watch on YouTube

;t=141s

I think what I'm seeing is their body control. Strong enough to hold position in the post and coordinated enough to contort their bodies/generate efficient looks on a regular basis. Not to go crazy after 3 preseason games, but I really think Zion will go down as an all-time efficient interior scorer much like Barkley. He'll probably incorporate similar percentages of 3pt/mid range attempts too, with enough success to keep defenders honest.

[clyde21]

The main thing separating Barkley and Zion is their mean streak. Barkley has one and Zion does not. Barkley weighed a lot less, but used every single pound. Zion seems afraid of his own strength at times. He's known as a power player, but that's mostly from his rim rattling dunks. As mind blowing as his quickness is there are a lot of plays where he'd make it easier on himself if he just bullied his defender. It speaks to Zion's talent that he excels on just athleticism alone even though he's 280 pounds. Barkley excelled at feeling out his defender on post ups and spinning away from them when needed. When Zion spins though it's premeditated. If he approached posts ups the same way Barkley did there's just no stopping him.

By all means Zion should be Barkley on steroids, and that's pretty frightening. Barkley was at one time considered better than Magic and Jordan when they all still played.

no, the main thing seperating them is defense, which Zion will be elite at and Barkley wasn''t

[Capn'O]

The comparison with Barkley is:

- the power and quickness that they left the floor with for somebody of that girth
- ditto with the second jump
- unstoppable in transition - excellent ball and body control
- good passing from the 4/5 position

Zion's a little more like Sixers Barkley. But it's hard to say how his game will develop. He won't be that jumpy forever, and neither was Chuck but he should be able to develop a set of moves that will offset that. Right now, he's not at all like the player Barkley ultimately became.


As for his demeanor and reluctance to use his size - you're comparing a kid who has played two preseason games with a top-20 all time legend. Everyone has told him he won't be able to use his body as much against NBA players (wrong!). He'll figure that part out.

[drosereturn]

I wont lie, Ive been underwhelmed by Zion. His weight gain scares the crap out of me, that is now 2 straight years he has put on weight. One of my favorite things about Zion was his defense. Lets be real he has been one of the worse defenders getting big minutes so far in the preseason. The movement isn't there, it looks like he just stands in place catching his breath.

Dont get me wrong the dude is fantastic offensively. His IQ and touch is elite. But ya I dont think his defensive struggles are just the normal rookie catching up to speed defensive struggles. I think its a weight and condition thing as well. When I saw how much weight he put on from Duke to SL, I thought okay give him a pass he has been doing a ton of media stuff. Thought we would see some evidence of weight loss since SL, I dont see it. Again 2 straight years of him visibly getting larger (not muscles either), definitely a worry for me if he cant get that under control. Ive been one of his biggest supporters on here for 3 years now.

his defense is gonna follow suit when he gets in game shape and gets used to the NBA pace

Ya that's if he gets in shape though. Look at him as a senior in high school, then look at him at Duke, then look at him now. Its not a good trajectory that he is on. You know me, Im a die hard Zion fan boy, but I cant deny he is not trending in the right direction weight wise the last 2 years. And he is nowhere close to having the cardio to be a 2 way player, which is a key part on why he was such a good prospect. I also have to question, how the hell did he let himself get so out of shape since the last Duke game?

his body was garbage in the first place. zion will go into a Drose trajectory. Great talent but the body cant handle the athleticism.
if he doesnt control weight, he will be very easy to be out of shape.

[Kabookalu]

The main thing separating Barkley and Zion is their mean streak. Barkley has one and Zion does not. Barkley weighed a lot less, but used every single pound. Zion seems afraid of his own strength at times. He's known as a power player, but that's mostly from his rim rattling dunks. As mind blowing as his quickness is there are a lot of plays where he'd make it easier on himself if he just bullied his defender. It speaks to Zion's talent that he excels on just athleticism alone even though he's 280 pounds. Barkley excelled at feeling out his defender on post ups and spinning away from them when needed. When Zion spins though it's premeditated. If he approached posts ups the same way Barkley did there's just no stopping him.

By all means Zion should be Barkley on steroids, and that's pretty frightening. Barkley was at one time considered better than Magic and Jordan when they all still played.

no, the main thing seperating them is defense, which Zion will be elite at and Barkley wasn''t

Well, he isn't elite at it now, and I didn't see it in college either. Not like I'm expecting him to be an elite rim protector, though his effort has been really underwhelming.

[Buzzard]

I had no clue about this. But ya googling it now, I do see a lot of people calling it the Charles Barkley rule. If that is the case, then ya that would be the opposite of Zion.

I watched Barkley live and he flat out would back someone down with his big rear end starting 10 to 15 feet out and then spin to the basket finishing like no other. Similar girth but different games. Maybe Zion takes on the better parts of Barkley's game but right now, they are not the same.

Sir Charles got the nickname the round mound of rebound when he was a very young player.

Tell me Charles doesn't remind you of Zion in this highlight reel:

Watch on YouTube

;t=141s

I think what I'm seeing is their body control. Strong enough to hold position in the post and coordinated enough to contort their bodies/generate efficient looks on a regular basis. Not to go crazy after 3 preseason games, but I really think Zion will go down as an all-time efficient interior scorer much like Barkley. He'll probably incorporate similar percentages of 3pt/mid range attempts too, with enough success to keep defenders honest.

Barkley looked for the contact. His game was like first I am going to hit you and then I will go around you. Not to mention the obvious discrepancy with the rebounding. I am not saying Zion cannot develop that but Barkley was not someone who always looked for open lanes; he as more like someone who created them.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I watched Barkley live and he flat out would back someone down with his big rear end starting 10 to 15 feet out and then spin to the basket finishing like no other. Similar girth but different games. Maybe Zion takes on the better parts of Barkley's game but right now, they are not the same.

Sir Charles got the nickname the round mound of rebound when he was a very young player.

Tell me Charles doesn't remind you of Zion in this highlight reel:

Watch on YouTube

;t=141s

I think what I'm seeing is their body control. Strong enough to hold position in the post and coordinated enough to contort their bodies/generate efficient looks on a regular basis. Not to go crazy after 3 preseason games, but I really think Zion will go down as an all-time efficient interior scorer much like Barkley. He'll probably incorporate similar percentages of 3pt/mid range attempts too, with enough success to keep defenders honest.

Barkley looked for the contact. His game was like first I am going to hit you and then I will go around you. Not to mention the obvious discrepancy with the rebounding. I am not saying Zion cannot develop that but Barkley was not someone who always looked for open lanes; he as more like someone who created them.

Yeah I doubt Zion will ever get to Charles' level as a rebounder, but he does project to make up some ground defensively. Time will tell but the Pels will be fun to watch this year/for the foreseeable future.

[Duke4life831]

his defense is gonna follow suit when he gets in game shape and gets used to the NBA pace

Ya that's if he gets in shape though. Look at him as a senior in high school, then look at him at Duke, then look at him now. Its not a good trajectory that he is on. You know me, Im a die hard Zion fan boy, but I cant deny he is not trending in the right direction weight wise the last 2 years. And he is nowhere close to having the cardio to be a 2 way player, which is a key part on why he was such a good prospect. I also have to question, how the hell did he let himself get so out of shape since the last Duke game?

his body was garbage in the first place. zion will go into a Drose trajectory. Great talent but the body cant handle the athleticism.
if he doesnt control weight, he will be very easy to be out of shape.

Zion in high school



Him right now.



He needs to get back to at minimum his Duke weight. I think for him to be at his best 2 way peak, get back to his high school weight of 255-260.

[Buzzard]

Tell me Charles doesn't remind you of Zion in this highlight reel:

Watch on YouTube

;t=141s

I think what I'm seeing is their body control. Strong enough to hold position in the post and coordinated enough to contort their bodies/generate efficient looks on a regular basis. Not to go crazy after 3 preseason games, but I really think Zion will go down as an all-time efficient interior scorer much like Barkley. He'll probably incorporate similar percentages of 3pt/mid range attempts too, with enough success to keep defenders honest.

Barkley looked for the contact. His game was like first I am going to hit you and then I will go around you. Not to mention the obvious discrepancy with the rebounding. I am not saying Zion cannot develop that but Barkley was not someone who always looked for open lanes; he as more like someone who created them.

Yeah I doubt Zion will ever get to Charles' level as a rebounder, but he does project to make up some ground defensively. Time will tell but the Pels will be fun to watch this year/for the foreseeable future.

No doubt about it. Unless Morant and/or RJ shows me something I have not seen so far this preseason, Zion is a unanimous ROY. It is definitely looking like a no contest affair so far.

[clyde21]

Ya that's if he gets in shape though. Look at him as a senior in high school, then look at him at Duke, then look at him now. Its not a good trajectory that he is on. You know me, Im a die hard Zion fan boy, but I cant deny he is not trending in the right direction weight wise the last 2 years. And he is nowhere close to having the cardio to be a 2 way player, which is a key part on why he was such a good prospect. I also have to question, how the hell did he let himself get so out of shape since the last Duke game?

his body was garbage in the first place. zion will go into a Drose trajectory. Great talent but the body cant handle the athleticism.
if he doesnt control weight, he will be very easy to be out of shape.

Zion in high school



Him right now.



He needs to get back to at minimum his Duke weight. I think for him to be at his best 2 way peak, get back to his high school weight of 255-260.

we can always pick and choose pics

[NYKHardKnock]

Legendary draft class led by Zion Jesus

[NYKHardKnock]

Barkley looked for the contact. His game was like first I am going to hit you and then I will go around you. Not to mention the obvious discrepancy with the rebounding. I am not saying Zion cannot develop that but Barkley was not someone who always looked for open lanes; he as more like someone who created them.

Yeah I doubt Zion will ever get to Charles' level as a rebounder, but he does project to make up some ground defensively. Time will tell but the Pels will be fun to watch this year/for the foreseeable future.

No doubt about it. Unless Morant and/or RJ shows me something I have not seen so far this preseason, Zion is a unanimous ROY. It is definitely looking like a no contest affair so far.

You won’t get anything crazy from RJ, unlike Zion. He’ll just drive, bang, hit and-1’s, and hit occasional threes. But it’s the simple game that makes RJ great

[Duke4life831]

his body was garbage in the first place. zion will go into a Drose trajectory. Great talent but the body cant handle the athleticism.
if he doesnt control weight, he will be very easy to be out of shape.

Zion in high school



Him right now.



He needs to get back to at minimum his Duke weight. I think for him to be at his best 2 way peak, get back to his high school weight of 255-260.

we can always pick and choose pics

I mean it's not really me cherry picking pictures though. Just look at highlights of him in high school, he has significantly less weight on him. I don't think this is a controversial take.

I'm not being a Zion hater, but I think it's fair to criticize him where he should be criticized. If any other rookie came into preseason visibly out of shape where he can't play both sides of the ball because of conditioning, he would get killed on this place. I just think Zion's weight and conditioning isn't above criticism. As a #1 pick, he shouldn't be this out of shape right now.

[Buzzard]

Yeah I doubt Zion will ever get to Charles' level as a rebounder, but he does project to make up some ground defensively. Time will tell but the Pels will be fun to watch this year/for the foreseeable future.

No doubt about it. Unless Morant and/or RJ shows me something I have not seen so far this preseason, Zion is a unanimous ROY. It is definitely looking like a no contest affair so far.

You won’t get anything crazy from RJ, unlike Zion. He’ll just drive, bang, hit and-1’s, and hit occasional threes. But it’s the simple game that makes RJ great

He is going to have to be better than 42% from the field. I don't think that will be a problem but he has not had a great preseason in that regard. Rookies, poor to average efficiency, and turn overs usually go hand in hand. NBA D and length is on a whole new level. I think Zion will take a efficiency hit in the regular season as well.

Just due to playing against regular season lineups and talent. Zion will still get his though; I just don't expect him to shoot a whole lot better than 45% from the field. That is really not great for a modern day NBA big; but it is not bad for a high volume scoring rookie at all.

[clyde21]

No doubt about it. Unless Morant and/or RJ shows me something I have not seen so far this preseason, Zion is a unanimous ROY. It is definitely looking like a no contest affair so far.

You won’t get anything crazy from RJ, unlike Zion. He’ll just drive, bang, hit and-1’s, and hit occasional threes. But it’s the simple game that makes RJ great

He is going to have to be better than 42% from the field. I don't think that will be a problem but he has not had a great preseason in that regard. Rookies, poor to average efficiency, and turn overs usually go hand in hand. NBA D and length is on a whole new level. I think Zion will take a efficiency hit in the regular season as well.

Just due to playing against regular season lineups and talent. Zion will still get his though; I just don't expect him to shoot a whole lot better than 45% from the field. That is really not great for a modern day NBA big; but it is not bad for a high volume scoring rookie at all.

RJ will never been an efficiency scorer tho, that's not his game, unless he's getting to the FT line consistently which he can, but he's not gonna hit a huge % of his Js...but he does have a really solid all around offensive game from scoring to facilitating to grabbing boards...I think he needs to be at least average defensively to be a + overall guy impact wise

RJ is just a dog though, one of the most mentally tough guys to come around in a while

[NYKHardKnock]

No doubt about it. Unless Morant and/or RJ shows me something I have not seen so far this preseason, Zion is a unanimous ROY. It is definitely looking like a no contest affair so far.

You won’t get anything crazy from RJ, unlike Zion. He’ll just drive, bang, hit and-1’s, and hit occasional threes. But it’s the simple game that makes RJ great

He is going to have to be better than 42% from the field. I don't think that will be a problem but he has not had a great preseason in that regard. Rookies, poor to average efficiency, and turn overs usually go hand in hand. NBA D and length is on a whole new level. I think Zion will take a efficiency hit in the regular season as well.

Just due to playing against regular season lineups and talent. Zion will still get his though; I just don't expect him to shoot a whole lot better than 45% from the field. That is really not great for a modern day NBA big; but it is not bad for a high volume scoring rookie at all.

RJ wants to be great. He’s not going to look away uncontested 3 points. He’s going to take it knowing he’s not great 18+ plus. So if he shots 42% I won’t be upset. He’s 19, and when your biggest weakness is shooting, while you’re strengths are his size, and ability to bang down low, he’ll be in good hands. The shooting will come. I’m just happy we have someone thats willing to get dirty.

[Alonzo_Morning]

Wonder what's going to happend when teams pack the paint againts Zion and Ball and force them to shot.

Ball is hitting step back three's and mid range pull ups. He's at least league average now.

Zion's stroke is pretty nice considering - hit a three today

[Alonzo_Morning]

his body was garbage in the first place. zion will go into a Drose trajectory. Great talent but the body cant handle the athleticism.
if he doesnt control weight, he will be very easy to be out of shape.

Zion in high school



Him right now.



He needs to get back to at minimum his Duke weight. I think for him to be at his best 2 way peak, get back to his high school weight of 255-260.

we can always pick and choose pics

Mind blowing delts