OT: Official KP Thread

[Jalen Bluntson]

Crying like a bunch of brides left at the alter!!

I was expecting TWD shovel.

[G_K_F]

:wave: Time to start making excuses for KP's poor start. Maybe it's just rust. Maybe he'll start scoring when they get another big next to him. Maybe he'll start playing up to potential in a couple of months.

Right before his anemia kicks in and production declines.

No offense but this type of stuff is laughable. No way anyone here would be insulting the dude in preseason when he hadn’t played an organized basketball game in 2 years if he was a member of the Knicks. The guy is not going to come out lighting anyone in fire coming back from a serious injury. May not even be himself until next season.

[duetta]

KP asked for a trade. He didn't want to be here, and he had enough leverage to make his desire a serious asset risk to the franchise.

The real problem with this deal was that we were forced to unload Mills' mistake in Hardaway as part of the deal, instead of taking back more positive assets. Hardaway never should have been signed to that contract - everyone knew that at the time, except Mills.

You don't expend your best draft pick in 15 years in order to erase management's mistakes. You instead erase that management.

[BKlutch]

:wave: Time to start making excuses for KP's poor start. Maybe it's just rust. Maybe he'll start scoring when they get another big next to him. Maybe he'll start playing up to potential in a couple of months.

Right before his anemia kicks in and production declines.

No offense but this type of stuff is laughable. No way anyone here would be insulting the dude in preseason when he hadn’t played an organized basketball game in 2 years if he was a member of the Knicks. The guy is not going to come out lighting anyone in fire coming back from a serious injury. May not even be himself until next season.

But that’s what we did when he was here and he didn’t live up to expectations. Just glad it’s not we who have to say this now.

[BKlutch]

KP asked for a trade. He didn't want to be here, and he had enough leverage to make his desire a serious asset risk to the franchise.

The real problem with this deal was that we were forced to unload Mills' mistake in Hardaway as part of the deal, instead of taking back more positive assets. Hardaway never should have been signed to that contract - everyone knew that at the time, except Mills.

You don't expend your best draft pick in 15 years in order to erase management's mistakes. You instead erase that management.

Spoken like a true fan. But u fortunately, it’s an ownership decision.

[god shammgod]

:wave: Time to start making excuses for KP's poor start. Maybe it's just rust. Maybe he'll start scoring when they get another big next to him. Maybe he'll start playing up to potential in a couple of months.

Right before his anemia kicks in and production declines.

No offense but this type of stuff is laughable. No way anyone here would be insulting the dude in preseason when he hadn’t played an organized basketball game in 2 years if he was a member of the Knicks. The guy is not going to come out lighting anyone in fire coming back from a serious injury. May not even be himself until next season.

that's not true, we insult everyone. rookies who've never played a game, guys coming back from injury, guys who are going through a slump. hell, melo is a top 5 knick of all time and half the board hates him. this is not the place to come seeking patience or compassion.

[Clyde_Style]

Crying like a bunch of brides left at the alter!!

I was expecting TWD shovel.

[Ville5]

:wave: Time to start making excuses for KP's poor start. Maybe it's just rust. Maybe he'll start scoring when they get another big next to him. Maybe he'll start playing up to potential in a couple of months.

Right before his anemia kicks in and production declines.

No offense but this type of stuff is laughable. No way anyone here would be insulting the dude in preseason when he hadn’t played an organized basketball game in 2 years if he was a member of the Knicks. The guy is not going to come out lighting anyone in fire coming back from a serious injury. May not even be himself until next season.

But that’s what we did when he was here and he didn’t live up to expectations. Just glad it’s not we who have to say this now.

I mean, he was an all-star in his third year. What kind of expectations did you have? For him to take the team to the playoffs all by himself? I don't know. Seems a bit unrealistic.

[Rasho Brezec]

:wave: Time to start making excuses for KP's poor start. Maybe it's just rust. Maybe he'll start scoring when they get another big next to him. Maybe he'll start playing up to potential in a couple of months.

Right before his anemia kicks in and production declines.

No offense but this type of stuff is laughable. No way anyone here would be insulting the dude in preseason when he hadn’t played an organized basketball game in 2 years if he was a member of the Knicks. The guy is not going to come out lighting anyone in fire coming back from a serious injury. May not even be himself until next season.

that's not true, we insult everyone. rookies who've never played a game, guys coming back from injury, guys who are going through a slump. hell, melo is a top 5 knick of all time and half the board hates him. this is not the place to come seeking patience or compassion.

RealGM's Knicks board: It's cheaper than therapy.

[malik959]

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That's called the knee still isn't strong enough for a quick change in direction, been there. When I tore my left ACL my worse enemy was getting in a car because I had to place all of my pressure on my left so I could put the right in first. The smallest things were what hurt the most. With KP your moving fast in one direction and have to make a sudden change, but that knee is in no way 100% so quick cuts just aren't going to go the way you think it's going to go. Practicing by yourself you can pre-plan your cuts, playing in a game is totally different.

[ny-n-md]

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That's called the knee still isn't strong enough for a quick change in direction, been there. When I tore my left ACL my worse enemy was getting in a car because I had to place all of my pressure on my left so I could put the right in first. The smallest things were what hurt the most. With KP your moving fast in one direction and have to make a sudden change, but that knee is in no way 100% so quick cuts just aren't going to go the way you think it's going to go. Practicing by yourself you can pre-plan your cuts, playing in a game is totally different.

Good info, thanks for sharing. He fell awkwardly again tonight against OKC and I couldn’t help but think he will get injured again. He stumbled over his own feet and fell but looked worse than it was because of his long limbs. Maybe we dodged a bullet?

[ny-n-md]

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[SelbyCobra]

A lot of people are falling all over themselves to say KP is rusty, that he's had such a layoff, and that he might even need a full season to simply get back to his "normal".

Meanwhile, the guy created waves and drama because he actively chose to NOT COME BACK WHEN HE WAS MEDICALLY CLEARED SO HE COULD TAKE AN EXTRA 8 F*CKING MONTHS TO MAKE HIMSELF EVEN BETTER.

Now that time - taken very specifically to get in the lab and make him bigger, faster, and stronger - is the excuse that he doesn't look like his game is any better than when we last saw him?

[Knicksfan1992]

Just like most guys I'll withhold judgment until the regular season but it looks like my concerns for KP coming off such a long layoff at his size and reliance on athleticism are becoming reality.

If KP doesnt have the same quickness advantage he once had his offensive potential suffers greatly because he doesn't have great feel for the game on top of that. He doesn't really have anything to fall back on besides being another tall guy that can shoot. That's still valuable but not nearly as valuable as the faceup create your own shot guy while still being a great off ball threat he once was on the way to becoming.

[3toheadmelo]

A lot of people are falling all over themselves to say KP is rusty, that he's had such a layoff, and that he might even need a full season to simply get back to his "normal".

Meanwhile, the guy created waves and drama because he actively chose to NOT COME BACK WHEN HE WAS MEDICALLY CLEARED SO HE COULD TAKE AN EXTRA 8 F*CKING MONTHS TO MAKE HIMSELF EVEN BETTER.

Now that time - taken very specifically to get in the lab and make him bigger, faster, and stronger - is the excuse that he doesn't look like his game is any better than when we last saw him?

His game looks even worse than when he was on the Knicks. He’s no better than Julius Randle right now lol

[King of Canada]

A lot of people are falling all over themselves to say KP is rusty, that he's had such a layoff, and that he might even need a full season to simply get back to his "normal".

Meanwhile, the guy created waves and drama because he actively chose to NOT COME BACK WHEN HE WAS MEDICALLY CLEARED SO HE COULD TAKE AN EXTRA 8 F*CKING MONTHS TO MAKE HIMSELF EVEN BETTER.

Now that time - taken very specifically to get in the lab and make him bigger, faster, and stronger - is the excuse that he doesn't look like his game is any better than when we last saw him?

I know it's early, but he does look like he's lost a step and isn't getting up like he used to. That could be rust, the injury, or the increased weight, and probably all three combined.

[DOT]

Really, KP underperforming just takes a ton of pressure off DSJ

It'd be something if DSJ ends up the better player though

[dakomish23]

we're talking about a max player now. frankly, i think he's always going to fall short of expectations and i actually felt better about the trade after watching his mavs debut. he'll have his moments when he looks unstoppable and we'll have to live with those but on balance i think he's always going to be a somewhat-inefficient, poor rebounding big who should be a center but fancies himself to be a shooting guard. this is all to say nothing of the obvious injury and (more serious) stamina concerns. to be honest i think luke kornet could give ~70% of KP's production at less than 10% of the cost.

i wanted KP to succeed here as much as anyone and didn't love the trade when it happened but ultimately i think we're in a better position now than we would have been had we committed to him long-term.

I think there are two separate things there

1) Is KP a max player in today's NBA?

2) Was it a good trade, or the best trade we could have made?

The first is all about his health, if he plays ~70 games the next 3-4 years then it's pretty absurd to argue he isn't a max player in his base compensation year in today's NBA. He's a top 3 rim protector. Gobert is a max player and can't shoot, can't punish a switch and gets run off the floor in the playoffs. KP is 100% a max player if he plays ~70 games, nearly on his defense alone. If he plays about like his age 22 season before the ACL (40% from 3, best OFG% against in the paint in the league, mediocre rebounding, average TS%) it's not really debatable. If you want to crystal ball and invoke the broken feet of big men past that's fine but I think that's mostly speculation.

The second is less about KP and more about the complete and utter ineptitude of the worst executive in sports, Steve Mills. Again if KP plays this trade will go down as one of the worst in Knicks history. Steve Mills had to use a 22 year old all-star we could have had control of for 4 more years to get rid of a dumpster fire laughing stock contract he signed. That's it. Dennis Smith has as many injury issues as KP, ankle, knee and now back problems for a 21 year old ... and he's shown nothing but chucking and poor defense in his 2 years. The picks are going to be middling first rounders if KP and Luka don't die in a hang gliding accident. The best chance for a decent pick was this year, but we don't have their pick this year. The urgency to make this trade was *100%* motivated by Mills wanting to star phuck Kyrie and the 1-Legged Assassin. Thus the need to dump a top 4 worst contract the same silver haired clown signed.

This was all around terrible for the Knicks, and it's 100% Mills fault. Even if KP was whining about staying he wasn't turning down a max contract ... he just wasn't. If you are keeping Mills over KP you're a **** idiot anyway. But, if you're keeping Mills you're Dolan, and so here we are.

I think this analysis doesn't account for the Knicks just identifying that KP, the person, is not someone you want as an anchor for your organization. Paying a max slot to deal with rape allegations, social media drama, getting your ass beat overseason, a pain in the ass brother, and injury/durability concerns might just be something they weren't on board for.

Cmon. There wasn’t one person who thought we weren’t giving him the max in 19.

[dakomish23]

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Some overcorrection

[dakomish23]

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I’m sure we won’t see this argument pop up for the next 3 years