Celtics exposed?

[Duffman100]

you can get cute all you want about ''subjectivity'' but i can almost guarantee if the 3 of them were able to be hired by any team starting a franchise ; stevens gets picked first

It's not cute.

Provide me objective data that Stevens is better than Nurse.

He’s not. Some wont want to admit it, but Nurse is a better coach based on what we saw last year. Things absolutely could change, but I can only go by what I’ve seen and that means Nurse is better right now.

Honestly, I don't know he is better than Stevens. I would say I'm not qualified to say. They're probably very close in terms of skill level.

[MagicBagley18]

you can get cute all you want about ''subjectivity'' but i can almost guarantee if the 3 of them were able to be hired by any team starting a franchise ; stevens gets picked first

It's not cute.

Provide me objective data that Stevens is better than Nurse.

He’s not. Some wont want to admit it, but Nurse is a better coach based on what we saw last year. Things absolutely could change, but I can only go by what I’ve seen and that means Nurse is better right now.

so nurse would be hired before stevens today? by an organization if a team could have both?....no chance.

i'm not even high on stevens right now and i think he did a terrible job last year. that was one year however and i look at the total volume of work and the situations both were in and the superstars on each team.

i think kyrie **** all over nick nurse way worse than he did to stevens and i think stevens would thrive coaching a superstar like kawhi and gritty players like siakim and gasol and even vanvleet.

[SmartWentCrazy]

It's not cute.

Provide me objective data that Stevens is better than Nurse.

He’s not. Some wont want to admit it, but Nurse is a better coach based on what we saw last year. Things absolutely could change, but I can only go by what I’ve seen and that means Nurse is better right now.

Honestly, I don't know he is better than Stevens. I would say I'm not qualified to say. They're probably very close in terms of skill level.

Stevens had a very bad year last year, of which he admitted multiple times. His offense was unimaginative and he did a poor job of managing egos in the locker room. Many players stalled deveopmentally. I still have him as a top ~10 coach, but he definitely went down a bit last year.

Conversely, Nurse did a fantastic job managing the Kawhi situation [lets not forget that he just straight up left the Spurs players last year and proved incredibly difficult for even Pop to deal with] and helping Siakim to further develop. He had an elite defense and strong offense. He had a great year.

I dont think there is a tier difference between the two, but I would put Nurse definitively above Stevens entering this season.

[SmartWentCrazy]

It's not cute.

Provide me objective data that Stevens is better than Nurse.

He’s not. Some wont want to admit it, but Nurse is a better coach based on what we saw last year. Things absolutely could change, but I can only go by what I’ve seen and that means Nurse is better right now.

so nurse would be hired before stevens today? by an organization if a team could have both?....no chance.

i'm not even high on stevens right now and i think he did a terrible job last year. that was one year however and i look at the total volume of work and the situations both were in and the superstars on each team.

i think kyrie **** all over nick nurse way worse than he did to stevens and i think stevens would thrive coaching a superstar like kawhi and gritty players like siakim and gasol and even vanvleet.

I think this is bold and selling Nurse short— Pop, easily the best coach in the league, struggled to deal with Kawhi the season before. Nurse did an unbelievable job here.

[Snotbubbles]

Not sure it's Philly love as much as it is some teams like the Celtics and Raps losing key players and taking a step back. Yeah, Philly lost Redick but they got Richardson. Lost Butler but they got Horford (at the expense of the Celtics). I'd expect Simmons and Embiid to continue improving. That should keep them at about the same level they were on last season, which likely gets them ahead of Boston and Toronto.

The Sixers backup center position was a black hole last year. It's why Embiid had some crazy on/off numbers because when he went out, they had nothing. Now they can play Horford at the 4 when Embiid is in and then slide Horford to the 5 when Embiid goes out. It's a massive upgrade.

They also added Josh Richardson who they will use to guard the smaller quicker guards. The Sixers were pretty bad at defending PGs last year.

They are also pretty excited about Matisse Thybulle. He looks like he could be a young Robert Covington off the bench. Defensively he already looks incredible. Hopefully, it will translate from the pre-season to the regular season.

They lost Redick's sharp shooting and Butler was a good closer and defender but the team just fits better as a whole now. It's going to be interesting to see how teams attack their huge lineups.

This is downplaying butler's importance while hyping Horford. It's also over hyping defense at the expense of offense. Nobody disagrees that the Sixers defense should be legit. I question if Embiid, tobias and Simmons provide enough offense for it to make a difference. Al Horford hasn't been a guy to lean on offensively in 2 years and Richardson while a good shooter isnt a guy you want to lean on in a close game. Teams can pack the paint against the Sixers because they have no semblance of an outside game

Josh Richardson shot 35.7% from 3. Horford shot 36%. Tobias shot 39.7%. Compare that to JJ Redick who shot 39.7% and Butler shot 34.7% from 3. I think the Sixers will be fine with floor spacing.

[Snotbubbles]

Not sure it's Philly love as much as it is some teams like the Celtics and Raps losing key players and taking a step back. Yeah, Philly lost Redick but they got Richardson. Lost Butler but they got Horford (at the expense of the Celtics). I'd expect Simmons and Embiid to continue improving. That should keep them at about the same level they were on last season, which likely gets them ahead of Boston and Toronto.

The Sixers backup center position was a black hole last year. It's why Embiid had some crazy on/off numbers because when he went out, they had nothing. Now they can play Horford at the 4 when Embiid is in and then slide Horford to the 5 when Embiid goes out. It's a massive upgrade.

They also added Josh Richardson who they will use to guard the smaller quicker guards. The Sixers were pretty bad at defending PGs last year.

They are also pretty excited about Matisse Thybulle. He looks like he could be a young Robert Covington off the bench. Defensively he already looks incredible. Hopefully, it will translate from the pre-season to the regular season.

They lost Redick's sharp shooting and Butler was a good closer and defender but the team just fits better as a whole now. It's going to be interesting to see how teams attack their huge lineups.

I keep hearing that point about Horford from a lot of Philly fans. The thing is, Horford isn't going to be playing 48 mpg. So there will still be either a hole at the 4 or the 5 some of the time when Embiid is out. But yes, I agree that it's a major upgrade, and combining that with the loss of Horford for the Cs creates that more clear gap between the two.

Overall I think that Philly fans are shrugging off the losses of Butler and Redick a bit too much, but gaining Horford and Richardson are definitely good gets. And yes, Thybulle has looked fantastic thus far. I'd be totally psyched about my team if I was a Sixers fan right now. And I'm psyched about the Celtics as a Celtics fan. Even if they're not a top East team, I think they'll just be a lot more fun to watch this season. Good luck to ya

Brown always staggers his lineups. My guess is he will do the same this season and Embiid and Horford will only play together for the first 5-6 minutes of the game, first 5-6 minutes of the second half and then 5-6 minutes at the end of games. The rest of the game, their minutes will be staggered but there is a good chance that for most, if not all of the game one of Embiid or Horford will be at center when they are playing at full strength. When Horford moves to the 5, they'll either move Harris or Simmons to the 4.

[ITYSL]

The Sixers backup center position was a black hole last year. It's why Embiid had some crazy on/off numbers because when he went out, they had nothing. Now they can play Horford at the 4 when Embiid is in and then slide Horford to the 5 when Embiid goes out. It's a massive upgrade.

They also added Josh Richardson who they will use to guard the smaller quicker guards. The Sixers were pretty bad at defending PGs last year.

They are also pretty excited about Matisse Thybulle. He looks like he could be a young Robert Covington off the bench. Defensively he already looks incredible. Hopefully, it will translate from the pre-season to the regular season.

They lost Redick's sharp shooting and Butler was a good closer and defender but the team just fits better as a whole now. It's going to be interesting to see how teams attack their huge lineups.

I keep hearing that point about Horford from a lot of Philly fans. The thing is, Horford isn't going to be playing 48 mpg. So there will still be either a hole at the 4 or the 5 some of the time when Embiid is out. But yes, I agree that it's a major upgrade, and combining that with the loss of Horford for the Cs creates that more clear gap between the two.

Overall I think that Philly fans are shrugging off the losses of Butler and Redick a bit too much, but gaining Horford and Richardson are definitely good gets. And yes, Thybulle has looked fantastic thus far. I'd be totally psyched about my team if I was a Sixers fan right now. And I'm psyched about the Celtics as a Celtics fan. Even if they're not a top East team, I think they'll just be a lot more fun to watch this season. Good luck to ya

Brown always staggers his lineups. My guess is he will do the same this season and Embiid and Horford will only play together for the first 5-6 minutes of the game, first 5-6 minutes of the second half and then 5-6 minutes at the end of games. The rest of the game, their minutes will be staggered but there is a good chance that for most, if not all of the game one of Embiid or Horford will be at center when they are playing at full strength. When Horford moves to the 5, they'll either move Harris or Simmons to the 4.

Yeah, I see your point and agree that your depth issues at C were huge last year. Horford helps that, but then if you start moving Harris or Simmons to the 4, you create depth issues elsewhere, especially with the loss of Butler. The bottom line here is that Horford can only do so much - his mpg have been trending down as it is. He can only back up Embiid at the 5 for so many minutes, and he can only play the 4 alongside Embiid for so many minutes. If BB starts shuffling pieces around, it could create holes elsewhere. Anyway, I think that's a minor concern compared to the upside of getting Horford, at least in the near term.

[ajones9219]

The Sixers backup center position was a black hole last year. It's why Embiid had some crazy on/off numbers because when he went out, they had nothing. Now they can play Horford at the 4 when Embiid is in and then slide Horford to the 5 when Embiid goes out. It's a massive upgrade.

They also added Josh Richardson who they will use to guard the smaller quicker guards. The Sixers were pretty bad at defending PGs last year.

They are also pretty excited about Matisse Thybulle. He looks like he could be a young Robert Covington off the bench. Defensively he already looks incredible. Hopefully, it will translate from the pre-season to the regular season.

They lost Redick's sharp shooting and Butler was a good closer and defender but the team just fits better as a whole now. It's going to be interesting to see how teams attack their huge lineups.

This is downplaying butler's importance while hyping Horford. It's also over hyping defense at the expense of offense. Nobody disagrees that the Sixers defense should be legit. I question if Embiid, tobias and Simmons provide enough offense for it to make a difference. Al Horford hasn't been a guy to lean on offensively in 2 years and Richardson while a good shooter isnt a guy you want to lean on in a close game. Teams can pack the paint against the Sixers because they have no semblance of an outside game

Josh Richardson shot 35.7% from 3. Horford shot 36%. Tobias shot 39.7%. Compare that to JJ Redick who shot 39.7% and Butler shot 34.7% from 3. I think the Sixers will be fine with floor spacing.

Jimmy wasn't an elite 3 point shooter but was a lethal shot creator and mid range shooter. Reddick shot 39.7 but on 8 attempts a game. Nobody is even close to that. Richardson shot 35% on 6.3 attempts. Tobias actually shot 32.9% on his 5 attempts. Horford is a league average 3 point shooter on only 3 attempts. My point stands. Unless someone like Simmons starts taking an making threes at a respectable clip, I think the Sixers struggle to space the floor.

[Snotbubbles]

I keep hearing that point about Horford from a lot of Philly fans. The thing is, Horford isn't going to be playing 48 mpg. So there will still be either a hole at the 4 or the 5 some of the time when Embiid is out. But yes, I agree that it's a major upgrade, and combining that with the loss of Horford for the Cs creates that more clear gap between the two.

Overall I think that Philly fans are shrugging off the losses of Butler and Redick a bit too much, but gaining Horford and Richardson are definitely good gets. And yes, Thybulle has looked fantastic thus far. I'd be totally psyched about my team if I was a Sixers fan right now. And I'm psyched about the Celtics as a Celtics fan. Even if they're not a top East team, I think they'll just be a lot more fun to watch this season. Good luck to ya

Brown always staggers his lineups. My guess is he will do the same this season and Embiid and Horford will only play together for the first 5-6 minutes of the game, first 5-6 minutes of the second half and then 5-6 minutes at the end of games. The rest of the game, their minutes will be staggered but there is a good chance that for most, if not all of the game one of Embiid or Horford will be at center when they are playing at full strength. When Horford moves to the 5, they'll either move Harris or Simmons to the 4.

Yeah, I see your point and agree that your depth issues at C were huge last year. Horford helps that, but then if you start moving Harris or Simmons to the 4, you create depth issues elsewhere, especially with the loss of Butler. The bottom line here is that Horford can only do so much - his mpg have been trending down as it is. He can only back up Embiid at the 5 for so many minutes, and he can only play the 4 alongside Embiid for so many minutes. If BB starts shuffling pieces around, it could create holes elsewhere. Anyway, I think that's a minor concern compared to the upside of getting Horford, at least in the near term.

The Sixers have a pretty position-less lineup. Richardson is the smallest starter at 6-6. Then the first three off the bench appear to be Mike Scott (6-8), James Ennis (6-7) and Thybulle (6-5). So really, apart from who is playing center, the other 4 position should be fairly flexible defensively.

[ITYSL]

Brown always staggers his lineups. My guess is he will do the same this season and Embiid and Horford will only play together for the first 5-6 minutes of the game, first 5-6 minutes of the second half and then 5-6 minutes at the end of games. The rest of the game, their minutes will be staggered but there is a good chance that for most, if not all of the game one of Embiid or Horford will be at center when they are playing at full strength. When Horford moves to the 5, they'll either move Harris or Simmons to the 4.

Yeah, I see your point and agree that your depth issues at C were huge last year. Horford helps that, but then if you start moving Harris or Simmons to the 4, you create depth issues elsewhere, especially with the loss of Butler. The bottom line here is that Horford can only do so much - his mpg have been trending down as it is. He can only back up Embiid at the 5 for so many minutes, and he can only play the 4 alongside Embiid for so many minutes. If BB starts shuffling pieces around, it could create holes elsewhere. Anyway, I think that's a minor concern compared to the upside of getting Horford, at least in the near term.

The Sixers have a pretty position-less lineup. Richardson is the smallest starter at 6-6. Then the first three off the bench appear to be Mike Scott (6-8), James Ennis (6-7) and Thybulle (6-5). So really, apart from who is playing center, the other 4 position should be fairly flexible defensively.

That doesn't really change my point about it creating possible overall depth issues elsewhere. You gain depth at the 4 and 5 but absolutely lose it at the 2 and 3 with Butler gone.

[Tiny ball]

Every rebuild is different. The goal is to acquire stars. Do you need help with who the star players were on those teams?

You don't get it! They drafted and developed their players. They did not play the fool and trade away their talent and draft picks for the first so called stars to become available. Danny chooses the short cut way. It worked one time for couple seasons. Maybe in his old age he will smarten up?

Do us all a favor and take that C's logo off that you have under your avatar, you're completely full of ****.

Says one more guy that licks Danny's boots and does not want to win Championships.

[Tiny ball]

Meh, anyone with half a brain knew he was a Laker when he fired his agent and signed with Klutch. There was also the $7.5M mansion he bought in the Westlake Village section of Los Angeles. If certain members of the Boston media refused to read the tea leaves... well, what else is new? Besides, the AD to Boston rumors sold papers and generated clicks.

It's not just the media, it's the fans, and I've seen discussions on celtic board. There were like 10 threads about AD, and people were celebrating when the trade deadline passed and he wasn't traded to the Lakers after his demand. They also celbrated when he said that the Celtics were on his list. He was a priority for Ainge, for tceltic media, and for the fans aswell.

I never wanted him. He is like egg shell.

[Tiny ball]

It's amazing how the Celtics were considered this up and coming dynasty just prior to last season and look at how their outlook has changed in the span of a season.

Dynasty? , quit making things up. Nobody was saying that.

Lots of people talking decade run.

[Curmudgeon]

As I said before, the Celtics were never getting him after he signed with Klutch. It doesn't matter if Celtics fans wanted him or not.

As for the Sixers, they're overrated in my view. The big issue for them is going to be perimeter defense. They also lack an established backup point guard and depth generally.

[Tiny ball]

He’s not. Some wont want to admit it, but Nurse is a better coach based on what we saw last year. Things absolutely could change, but I can only go by what I’ve seen and that means Nurse is better right now.

so nurse would be hired before stevens today? by an organization if a team could have both?....no chance.

i'm not even high on stevens right now and i think he did a terrible job last year. that was one year however and i look at the total volume of work and the situations both were in and the superstars on each team.

i think kyrie **** all over nick nurse way worse than he did to stevens and i think stevens would thrive coaching a superstar like kawhi and gritty players like siakim and gasol and even vanvleet.

I think this is bold and selling Nurse short— Pop, easily the best coach in the league, struggled to deal with Kawhi the season before. Nurse did an unbelievable job here.

Pop is too old. He is no where near the best coach these days and far from it.imho

[MagicBagley18]

He’s not. Some wont want to admit it, but Nurse is a better coach based on what we saw last year. Things absolutely could change, but I can only go by what I’ve seen and that means Nurse is better right now.

so nurse would be hired before stevens today? by an organization if a team could have both?....no chance.

i'm not even high on stevens right now and i think he did a terrible job last year. that was one year however and i look at the total volume of work and the situations both were in and the superstars on each team.

i think kyrie **** all over nick nurse way worse than he did to stevens and i think stevens would thrive coaching a superstar like kawhi and gritty players like siakim and gasol and even vanvleet.

I think this is bold and selling Nurse short— Pop, easily the best coach in the league, struggled to deal with Kawhi the season before. Nurse did an unbelievable job here.

i don't think kawhi had any issues with pops coaching, i think kawhi didn't like how they handled his injury and how pops guys like parker commented on it. i also think kawhi was hell bent on getting out of SA and to LA anyway shape or form and he was also coming to toronto after being slandered by the public and accused of dogging an injury after only playing 9 games and if he acted out or didn't fit in he would be labeled. wrong or right.

kawhi and pop had a pretty damn good run and won a championship together, he also helped and was pivotal role in kawhi developing like he did. so i don't think they really struggled in terms of basketball it was more behind the scenes differing of opinions on how business was conducted.

so you think it's selling nurse short, i think his impact was inflated he inherited a team that was perennially in the playoffs and although they struggled they took demar away and replaced him with a top 3 player IMO in kawhi, at worst top 5. the team's infrastructure was there from a team who made an ECF appearance 2 seasons ago and i think the big difference maker in the end result was kawhi- elite superstar player not nick nurse 1st time head coach.

it's funny when you get a top 5 elite elite levelheaded player like kawhi and add him to a good team how much it makes a difference.

[robbie84]

Maybe Luke Walton keeps Kyrie in check?

Doubtful. We'll see though how this year shakes out. Nurse gets a team without a top 3 players and Steven's gets a non toxic team.

Yeah so calling him the best coach is definitely subjective and could easily be wrong.

Maybe Stevens did keep a strong locker room? Maybe Nurse was completely propped up by the team or maybe he was key to their success.

Well yeah it's subjective but there's also some common logic involved.
Do you really believe that Nick Nurse would beat Brad Stevens in an NBA wide (by players, coaches) vote for coach of the year?
Highly unlikely.
We can ask questions all day, but is Ty Lue a better coach than Terry Stots or Dunleavey because the Cavs beat the Warriors?
He'll no.
Would Nick Nurse make Isaiah Thomas an MVP candidate or take a team with Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Jarred Sullinger and Tyler Zeller as its core
unit to 48 wins or the ECF?

Does Nick Nurse take that Butler squad to the final four, two years straight?

So yeah, subjectivity is involved to a degree, but common logic plays a larger part.
Kemba is probably the best player and Stevens is probably the best coach of those mentioned teams.

[Harry Garris]

Celts are a playoff team but the interior defense is definitely an issue. Kanter isn't going to start though, they'll have someone in there for defensive purposes, whether it ends up being RW3, Grant Williams, Theis, Poirier, or whoever. There's been one preseason game so lots of things to work out but losing Al makes it really tough defensively. What I'm pretty sure of though is that Marcus Smart has to start next to Kemba and right now it looks like Hayward would be the odd one out of the starting lineup. I think Tatum and Brown can play better defense than Hayward and I'm not sure they need Gordon's offense with the starting unit.

Grant Williams is 6'7" on a good day. There's no way he could start at the 5.

[Duffman100]

Doubtful. We'll see though how this year shakes out. Nurse gets a team without a top 3 players and Steven's gets a non toxic team.

Yeah so calling him the best coach is definitely subjective and could easily be wrong.

Maybe Stevens did keep a strong locker room? Maybe Nurse was completely propped up by the team or maybe he was key to their success.

Would Nick Nurse make Isaiah Thomas an MVP candidate or take a team with Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Jarred Sullinger and Tyler Zeller as its core
unit to 48 wins or the ECF?

Does Nick Nurse take that Butler squad to the final four, two years straight?

So yeah, subjectivity is involved to a degree, but common logic plays a larger part.
Kemba is probably the best player and Stevens is probably the best coach of those mentioned teams.

Maybe? Maybe? He could?
Would Nurse have been able to get through to Kyrie and keep that locker room stable, maybe?
Would Stevens have been able to handle Kawhi? Handle Ibaka going to the bench gracefully? Maybe?
Would Stevens win the title with that Raptors squad? Maybe. If you say 'yes for sure', then you bias is showing.

It's all subjective. There's nothing common sense about what you said. It's all maybes.

[TerryTate]

This is downplaying butler's importance while hyping Horford. It's also over hyping defense at the expense of offense. Nobody disagrees that the Sixers defense should be legit. I question if Embiid, tobias and Simmons provide enough offense for it to make a difference. Al Horford hasn't been a guy to lean on offensively in 2 years and Richardson while a good shooter isnt a guy you want to lean on in a close game. Teams can pack the paint against the Sixers because they have no semblance of an outside game

Josh Richardson shot 35.7% from 3. Horford shot 36%. Tobias shot 39.7%. Compare that to JJ Redick who shot 39.7% and Butler shot 34.7% from 3. I think the Sixers will be fine with floor spacing.

Jimmy wasn't an elite 3 point shooter but was a lethal shot creator and mid range shooter. Reddick shot 39.7 but on 8 attempts a game. Nobody is even close to that. Richardson shot 35% on 6.3 attempts. Tobias actually shot 32.9% on his 5 attempts. Horford is a league average 3 point shooter on only 3 attempts. My point stands. Unless someone like Simmons starts taking an making threes at a respectable clip, I think the Sixers struggle to space the floor.

This right here..... on top of that.... who else can turn off a screen that quickly and chuck a 3 with those kind of number. Maybe Korver in his prime. I can't think of anyone else that can do that.