Political Roundtable Part XXVI

[doclinkin]

I think he’s just in the mindset now to steal or ruin whatever he can before they kick him out. To fast forward the requests of his Russian masters and set up his business deals and favors for after his presidency.

Some have suggested or hoped that once he leaves office he might end up in a very
different publicly owned facility assuming Barr or another GOP toady is no longer AG.
He has committed actual crimes that we know about and it's not hard to imagine that once the
stonewall preventing more information about his past breaks down completely, he could be
facing much more legal liability assuming the statute of limitations has not
passed on some of them.

I think he would skip the country and try to foment civil war if it were headed in that direction. He's not going to go away quietly no matter what.

[Kanyewest]

I'm just quoting you in saying that people were "uncomfortable" in defending Hillary. Although to be honest, I know plenty of people who defend Hillary but they don't do it a public manner like Sanders or even Warren supporters. I'm just saying the enthusiasm wasn't there online like it was for Obama and Sanders.

Agreed that Sanders didn't see the same scrutiny. Neither did Obama until 2008 but overcame it. I think Sanders was better than Hillary but not ideal, so I see your viewpoint. That being said, I will take my chances with the candidate that started out as more favorable no matter how much dirt they threw on Hillary Clinton (which never was as bad as what Trump supporters did either).

I'm not saying people were uncomfortable in defending Hillary. I'm saying they are now because the narrative has been twisted exactly as you're describing it so people just give up as it's pointless now anyway.

Compare Hillary to Gore and Kerry. Hillary did way better. Trump basically got the same amount of votes as Bush Jr did in his second term while Hillary got almost 7 million more votes than Kerry did. Hillary was undone by the increasingly partisan nature of politics at this point and how a lot of rural areas have a disproportionate amount of electoral college seats and disproportionately are unshakably Republican. Kerry wouldn't have done much worse. Now you can talk about how Kerry wasn't a great candidate, either, and I'd agree. But that's sort of my point. When you go down the list of historical presidential candidates, Hillary isn't actually that bad. She's just made out to be one of the worst candidates ever now in order to fit certain narratives people want to push.

I think it's tough to compare Hillary to Kerry/Gore voting numbers given that they ran against IMO a superior candidate in George W. Bush (at least at the time) to Donald Trump.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I think it's tough to compare Hillary to Kerry/Gore voting numbers given that they ran against IMO a superior candidate in George W. Bush (at least at the time) to Donald Trump.

I think Trump's ability to get elected and strength as a candidate is routinely underestimated on both sides of the aisle, though the Republicans seem to have figured that out now and aren't quite sure what to make of it. The idea that Trump was some cakewalk of a candidate needs to die already. All the Republican candidates thought as much, until they saw the polling, then they dismissed the polling, then one by one they lost badly and it wasn't close. Then the Democrats thought it was basically a coronation no matter who they elected because Trump was so hateful until they lost at which point they decided they weren't going to change their beliefs about Trump being a weak candidate but instead were going to change their beliefs about Hillary. But no, we can't prove that someone else wouldn't have won instead of Hillary, only Bernie didn't beat Hillary and he isn't beating Warren or poor man's Hillary right now and no other major players ran against her so...

Bush got basically the same amount of votes as Trump did, as I pointed out. Kerry got way fewer than Hillary. Bush was extremely divisive at the time of his second election which is reflected in his getting way fewer votes despite being a wartime president and not at all some unstoppable force of a candidate.

[Kanyewest]

I think it's tough to compare Hillary to Kerry/Gore voting numbers given that they ran against IMO a superior candidate in George W. Bush (at least at the time) to Donald Trump.

I think Trump's ability to get elected and strength as a candidate is routinely underestimated on both sides of the aisle, though the Republicans seem to have figured that out now and aren't quite sure what to make of it. The idea that Trump was some cakewalk of a candidate needs to die already. All the Republican candidates thought as much, until they saw the polling, then they dismissed the polling, then one by one they lost badly and it wasn't close. Then the Democrats thought it was basically a coronation no matter who they elected because Trump was so hateful until they lost at which point they decided they weren't going to change their beliefs about Trump being a weak candidate but instead were going to change their beliefs about Hillary. But no, we can't prove that someone else wouldn't have won instead of Hillary, only Bernie didn't beat Hillary and he isn't beating Warren or poor man's Hillary right now and no other major players ran against her so...

It wasn't a cakewalk. I'm just saying that George W. Bush was much more popular than Trump.

[Kanyewest]

Also Warren is more like Sanders in her policies (medicare for all, wealth tax, and big changes) than Hillary.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Also Warren is more like Sanders in her policies (medicare for all, wealth tax, and big changes) than Hillary.

(1) Tell that to Bernie's supporters

(2) poor man's Hillary is Biden, not Warren

[Kanyewest]

Also Warren is more like Sanders in her policies (medicare for all, wealth tax, and big changes) than Hillary.

(1) Tell that to Bernie's supporters

(2) poor man's Hillary is Biden, not Warren

Yeah, I will try to say that especially if Warren is the nominee. Although I can't hold a grudge for them if they end up supporting Sanders in the primary although if it is between Biden and Warren, they should probably swallow their pride and vote for Warren.

[G R E Y]

I went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted. Looks important:

Read on Twitter

This, I think, is actually poor journalism (fake news).

It looks like it just cherrypicked some large trades made at the end of the trading day and found Trump tweets that coincided with it, and wrote an article.

Large hedge-bets are often made at the end of the day, so nothing too shady there. There's no information on who's making the trade, or even if it's the same trader making those trades. It could be a big deal, but the article as written is grasping at straws. If this was potential fraud, the SEC/FINRA would be up on it and there would definitely be more to the story than just chronicling the transactions measured against Trump tweets.

Temporal isn't necessarily causal. But it's a looking at a pattern of behaviour and the fortuitous results. Since Trump took office, there's been a decline in filed actions and penalties even with a positive pov of it being a more streamlined approach, we'll see if this gets SEC's attention.

[gtn130]

So have we heard the deplorables' explanation for Trump awarding himself the G7 contract yet? I'm guessing it's time to talk about the Clinton Foundation again?

[dobrojim]

We don't do corruption. Only you do corruption.
Rubber-glue.

[doclinkin]

You’re the puppet.

[Ruzious]

I wonder if he plans on moving to Russia if things really fall out. Then again, it still feels like congress is moving at a snail like pace that Trump will only be leaving office via an election. Or worst case, finishing out his 2nd term.

Or maybe he'll move to Germany - since he seems to genuinely believe his father was born there - even though Fred was born in NY. Fred's father moved to the US 20 years before Fred was born - it wasn't even close. Imagine if Biden had made an error like that. Yet, I don't think this phases any Republican despite how flat out weird/bizarre/moronic it is.

[Ruzious]

Read on Twitter

Great news for coal miners in Pennsylvania. MAGA!

The corruption is just blatant and out in the open now. They really don’t give a ****. Where’s daoneandonly to tell me that Trump was the most ethical lol

“I think the optics aren’t good . . . but we have a lot more problems to worry about,” said Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-S.C.).

Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) said the Doral announcement “doesn’t bother me a great deal” even as he admitted, “I think there is certainly an appearance of conflict of interest.”

Lol Duncan - the other problems are also impeachable offenses. There's also this little issue that taking foreign emoluments is AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION. I know you're busy but... Try multi-tasking, you bleeping clown.

Cole, there's an "appearance" of conflict of interest because there IS a conflict of interest. It doesn't bother you, because you're a tool without ethics.

All of these guys are every bit as bad as Trump, because they're providing the path for him to get away with this shyt.

[Wizardspride]

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?s=19

[dobrojim]

I think he’s just in the mindset now to steal or ruin whatever he can before they kick him out. To fast forward the requests of his Russian masters and set up his business deals and favors for after his presidency.

Some have suggested or hoped that once he leaves office he might end up in a very
different publicly owned facility assuming Barr or another GOP toady is no longer AG.
He has committed actual crimes that we know about and it's not hard to imagine that once the
stonewall preventing more information about his past breaks down completely, he could be
facing much more legal liability assuming the statute of limitations has not
passed on some of them.

I think he would skip the country and try to foment civil war if it were headed in that direction. He's not going to go away quietly no matter what.

You raise an interesting possibility re skipping the country. Can you imagine if he were to
skip the country hypothetically say for Moscow in Air Force One?

One wonders what measures might be under consideration by intelligence/law enforcement
now or going forward that would ensure that this could not happen.

[dobrojim]

Lol Duncan - the other problems are also impeachable offenses. There's also this little issue that taking foreign emoluments is AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION. I know you're busy but... Try multi-tasking, you bleeping clown.

Cole, there's an "appearance" of conflict of interest because there IS a conflict of interest. It doesn't bother you, because you're a tool without ethics.

All of these guys are every bit as bad as Trump, because they're providing the path for him to get away with this shyt.

Interesting and worth noting that the emoluments clause also includes domestic payments.

The founders wanted to prevent any conflict of interest by the POTUS so
they prohibited the President from accepting payments, other than their salary and
while in office, from anyone, whether they be domestic or foreign entities.

[dckingsfan]

Wednesday, Thursday, Friday Polls in their respective orders. Interesting jump for Buttigieg - if he jumps Sanders, I think it puts a lot of pressure on Biden. In the mean-time Warren seems to have stalled a bit.

Code: Select all

                Economist     Emerson     Politico     
Warren                 28          23           21
Biden                  25          23           31
Sanders                13          13           18
Buttigieg               7          16            6
Harris                  5           2            7
Yang                    2           5            3
Booker                  1           3            2
Kobuchar                2           1            2
Gabbard                 3           2            1
O'Rourke                2           0            2
Bennet                  1           1            1
Styeyer                 1           2            2
Castro                  0           0            1

[TGW]

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[Doug_Blew]

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Damn! it really is STD.

I will say that if Hillary has inside info on Gabbard wanting to run as a 3rd party candidate, then good for HRC for getting this out there.

[Kanyewest]

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