Dion Waiters suspended by Miami Heat - trade coming?

[BBallFreak]

Waiters + small asset for Snell makes some sense.

Yeah, Snell seems like he would fit in Miami. I'm not a big fan, but I get it.

[nolang1]

I don't get why we always have to hear so much about the Miami Heat culture when they seemingly always have guys suspended for some kind of insubordination. It's not like this is some scrappy, overachieving team. They're always up towards the top of the league in terms of payroll and habitually trade away future draft picks, yet this expensive, veteran-laden team always has these kind of issues popping up.

The only players we've had with these sorts of issues are Waiters and Whiteside. What issues are always cropping up, aside from these guys? BTW, this is Waiter's first issue, and it's been years that he's been with our team.

I recognize he has no trade value, but come on...

Yeah, what other players across the league have these kinds of issues where they're getting suspended and benched? 2 on one team (well 3 if you count James Johnson), for a team that is supposed to have this amazing Spartan culture, definitely stands out.

I would say the Spurs are the only other team lauded for having such a great culture and I can't think of any really messy situations they've had lately. The closest I can think is that they let Johnathan Simmons walk in free agency because they got tired of him (none of this suspension type of drama) and he's ended up being worse on the Magic/76ers. This whole 'Heat culture' thing just came from them overcompensating when LeBron left, and since Spoelstra and Riley are nice, respected guys, the media bought into it.

[ChettheJet]

If Waiters isn't a complete head case but the Heat just want to get rid of him, send him to the Bulls for Christiano Felicio. It's a trade that works on the machine, the Heat save about $4M per year, get a lousy center as a backup and get rid of a malcontent, the Bulls get a backup shooting guard, maybe Lavine can take a break once in a while and they just use Valentine as the backup 3.

[BBallFreak]

I don't get why we always have to hear so much about the Miami Heat culture when they seemingly always have guys suspended for some kind of insubordination. It's not like this is some scrappy, overachieving team. They're always up towards the top of the league in terms of payroll and habitually trade away future draft picks, yet this expensive, veteran-laden team always has these kind of issues popping up.

The only players we've had with these sorts of issues are Waiters and Whiteside. What issues are always cropping up, aside from these guys? BTW, this is Waiter's first issue, and it's been years that he's been with our team.

I recognize he has no trade value, but come on...

Yeah, what other players across the league have these kinds of issues where they're getting suspended and benched? 2 on one team (well 3 if you count James Johnson), for a team that is supposed to have this amazing Spartan culture, definitely stands out.

I would say the Spurs are the only other team lauded for having such a great culture and I can't think of any really messy situations they've had lately. The closest I can think is that they let Johnathan Simmons walk in free agency because they got tired of him (none of this suspension type of drama) and he's ended up being worse on the Magic/76ers. This whole 'Heat culture' thing just came from them overcompensating when LeBron left, and since Spoelstra and Riley are nice, respected guys, the media bought into it.

You really can't think of anything else with the Spurs? Seriously?

This is why I don't come to the General Board...

[nolang1]

The only players we've had with these sorts of issues are Waiters and Whiteside. What issues are always cropping up, aside from these guys? BTW, this is Waiter's first issue, and it's been years that he's been with our team.

I recognize he has no trade value, but come on...

Yeah, what other players across the league have these kinds of issues where they're getting suspended and benched? 2 on one team (well 3 if you count James Johnson), for a team that is supposed to have this amazing Spartan culture, definitely stands out.

I would say the Spurs are the only other team lauded for having such a great culture and I can't think of any really messy situations they've had lately. The closest I can think is that they let Johnathan Simmons walk in free agency because they got tired of him (none of this suspension type of drama) and he's ended up being worse on the Magic/76ers. This whole 'Heat culture' thing just came from them overcompensating when LeBron left, and since Spoelstra and Riley are nice, respected guys, the media bought into it.

You really can't think of anything else with the Spurs? Seriously?

This is why I don't come to the General Board...

No, not in the past 4-5 years. Like I said, people weren't really talking about the Miami Heat's amazing culture until after LeBron left because before that, it was pretty obvious that if you had the best player and 2 other all-stars, you were winning lots of games and making it to the Finals due to having superior talent, which is a much better predictor of success than something as ambiguous as 'culture.'

The Spurs just sign guys who aren't ****, while the Heat will have guys who are **** perform well in a contract year and then foolishly assume their amazing, magical culture was wholly responsible for that performance and then overpay those players.

[BBallFreak]

Yeah, what other players across the league have these kinds of issues where they're getting suspended and benched? 2 on one team (well 3 if you count James Johnson), for a team that is supposed to have this amazing Spartan culture, definitely stands out.

I would say the Spurs are the only other team lauded for having such a great culture and I can't think of any really messy situations they've had lately. The closest I can think is that they let Johnathan Simmons walk in free agency because they got tired of him (none of this suspension type of drama) and he's ended up being worse on the Magic/76ers. This whole 'Heat culture' thing just came from them overcompensating when LeBron left, and since Spoelstra and Riley are nice, respected guys, the media bought into it.

You really can't think of anything else with the Spurs? Seriously?

This is why I don't come to the General Board...

No, not in the past 4-5 years. Like I said, people weren't really talking about the Miami Heat's amazing culture until after LeBron left because before that, it was pretty obvious that if you had the best player and 2 other all-stars, you were winning lots of games and making it to the Finals due to having superior talent, which is a much better predictor of success than something as ambiguous as 'culture.'

Does the name Kawhi Leonard ring a bell?

[nolang1]

You really can't think of anything else with the Spurs? Seriously?

This is why I don't come to the General Board...

No, not in the past 4-5 years. Like I said, people weren't really talking about the Miami Heat's amazing culture until after LeBron left because before that, it was pretty obvious that if you had the best player and 2 other all-stars, you were winning lots of games and making it to the Finals due to having superior talent, which is a much better predictor of success than something as ambiguous as 'culture.'

Does the name Kawhi Leonard ring a bell?

When I think about 'culture' I think about overachieving relative to the payroll/talent level. So no, I don't think Kawhi had much to do with that since when he wasn't playing the Spurs still outperformed expectations. The Spurs weren't suspending Kawhi for 'conduct detrimental to the team' just because the two parties felt differently about how ready he was to come back from his injury.

So again, the difference between you and me would probably be that I'm only looking at 'culture' in terms of whether it makes a team perform better or worse than the sum of its parts where as you're looking at it in terms of what the tabloid media covers.

[JRoy]

Not many teams standing in line for the DWS (Dion Waiters Sweepstakes).

[BBallFreak]

No, not in the past 4-5 years. Like I said, people weren't really talking about the Miami Heat's amazing culture until after LeBron left because before that, it was pretty obvious that if you had the best player and 2 other all-stars, you were winning lots of games and making it to the Finals due to having superior talent, which is a much better predictor of success than something as ambiguous as 'culture.'

Does the name Kawhi Leonard ring a bell?

When I think about 'culture' I think about overachieving relative to the payroll/talent level. So no, I don't think Kawhi had much to do with that since when he wasn't playing the Spurs still outperformed expectations. The Spurs weren't suspending Kawhi for 'conduct detrimental to the team' just because the two parties felt differently about how ready he was to come back from his injury.

Yes, that was the only issue.



Culture doesn't mean it can trump a lack of talent, it means they'll always play hard no matter what. It means they define themselves on hard work. It doesn't mean that they can fix every issue, just like Miami couldn't fix Whiteside or Waiters, and the Spurs couldn't repair their damaged relationship with Kawhi. It just means that they'll be tough to play every single night and they're going to commit to the system they play in.

That's really it...

[basketballwacko2]

It's hard for a Waiters trade because Miami is hardcapped and kinda asset depleted.

Waiters, Dragic, and Johnson plus a 2025 #1 lotto protected for Chris Paul, Noel, and Nader. Saves Miami $5 million gets them out of the cap gets rid of Johnson and Waiters 2 guys they wanted to move.

OKC gets an asset out in the futuree.

If I was Miami the pick would have to be top 25 protected for 3 years and then drop to a 2nd in the 4th year.

[BBallFreak]

It's hard for a Waiters trade because Miami is hardcapped and kinda asset depleted.

Waiters, Dragic, and Johnson plus a 2025 #1 lotto protected for Chris Paul, Noel, and Nader. Saves Miami $5 million gets them out of the cap gets rid of Johnson and Waiters 2 guys they wanted to move.

OKC gets an asset out in the futuree.

If I was Miami the pick would have to be top 25 protected for 3 years and then drop to a 2nd in the 4th year.

Miami wouldn't give up a pick for CP3. They'd have to get picks back...

[basketballwacko2]

Waiters, Dragic, and Johnson plus a 2025 #1 lotto protected for Chris Paul, Noel, and Nader. Saves Miami $5 million gets them out of the cap gets rid of Johnson and Waiters 2 guys they wanted to move.

OKC gets an asset out in the futuree.

If I was Miami the pick would have to be top 25 protected for 3 years and then drop to a 2nd in the 4th year.

Miami wouldn't give up a pick for CP3. They'd have to get picks back...

The pick is more for getting out of Waiters and Johnson, to make the salary match CP is in the deal, he's over paid but he's still a quality PG.

[BBallFreak]

If I was Miami the pick would have to be top 25 protected for 3 years and then drop to a 2nd in the 4th year.

Miami wouldn't give up a pick for CP3. They'd have to get picks back...

The pick is more for getting out of Waiters and Johnson, to make the salary match CP is in the deal, he's over paid but he's still a quality PG.

No. We'd rather have them.

[nolang1]

Does the name Kawhi Leonard ring a bell?

When I think about 'culture' I think about overachieving relative to the payroll/talent level. So no, I don't think Kawhi had much to do with that since when he wasn't playing the Spurs still outperformed expectations. The Spurs weren't suspending Kawhi for 'conduct detrimental to the team' just because the two parties felt differently about how ready he was to come back from his injury.

Yes, that was the only issue.



Culture doesn't mean it can trump a lack of talent, it means they'll always play hard no matter what. It means they define themselves on hard work. It doesn't mean that they can fix every issue, just like Miami couldn't fix Whiteside or Waiters, and the Spurs couldn't repair their damaged relationship with Kawhi. It just means that they'll be tough to play every single night and they're going to commit to the system they play in.

That's really it...

Well the obvious point through these examples should be that no team has some magical power to transform every player they acquire, yet the Heat love to overpay these guys who did well on a contract year because they're so full of themselves they believe it's "Heat culture" that made them do well. 'Culture' is already overrated enough relative to the talent level of the players you can acquire (obviously the '17 and '18 Warriors didn't have some incredible team chemistry), and the Heat take it to another level because they're in one of the most desirable locations in the league in terms of both being somewhere that's in the East (with no state income tax) but not freezing cold in the winter.

And lol obviously Whiteside, Waiters, and Johnson weren't always playing hard no matter what. Otherwise the team wouldn't have crapped on like they did.

[gom]

So Miami is supposed to trade Dion Waiters (who hasn't done anything for the team in two years) because he gets outplayed by two rookies (Herro & Nunn), acts like a crybaby, and then goes on social media to criticize the coach (and the rookies who outplayed him)??? What kind of message does that send to the others? You don't think it's better to send him off to train by himself for a week or so and then see what he thinks? He's being paid millions of dollars a year to play basketball.

James Johnson at least takes responsibility for his situation.

[drosereturn]

Felicio +Dunn for Waiters. Who says no?

I like it but the Heat are hard capped, can't take on the extra money, and I'm not sure if they have filler they view as disposable on the back end of the roster.

I honestly don't even like it for the Heat if the cap weren't an issue.

We have Winslow and Dragic as our top two point guards, and Kendrick Nunn who is likely to command time this season, all of whom would clearly be ahead of Dunn. Felicio is clearly useless. I'm just not sure the situation with Waiters is so bad that we need to move him for players who just don't have a use for us.

Maybe if Dunn were sent to a third team for nothing and we just got Felicio it would work, but I kinda think Chicago would have given him away, already...

Felicio for Waiters is even better, deal.
I just included Dunn for a throw in but i guess hes not desirable.
I wouldnt mind Felicio + Dunn for Johnson for salary match.

[gom]

Waiters for Felicio actually gets Miami out of the tax. I've no illusions about Felicio's game (he's behind Varejão in the rotation for Brazil), but a useless frontcourt player is better than a disgruntled backcourt player who thinks he should be treated like a star, talks smack about the coach, and takes his frustrations out on social media. I'd do that trade and never look back.

[shrink]

Using CHI seems like a pathway to send MIA Gorgui Dieng, if they can split up either Meyers Leonard or JJ. I think a Dieng would be useful to the Heat, and MIN could use Dunn as a back up if Teague or Shabazz Napier go down.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Waiters for Felicio actually gets Miami out of the tax. I've no illusions about Felicio's game (he's behind Varejão in the rotation for Brazil), but a useless frontcourt player is better than a disgruntled backcourt player who thinks he should be treated like a star, talks smack about the coach, and takes his frustrations out on social media. I'd do that trade and never look back.

Can Dion play backup small forward? That’s the big hole for the Bulls now, id like this deal as well.

[amcoolio]

Waiters complaining about his bench role and causing disruption. Pat Riley will most likely get him outta there

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Waiters making $12M this year , and $12.5M in 20-21

What teams out there would be interested ? There are very few teams where Waiters would start.. Charlotte or Detroit come to mind .

Waiters would not start over Bacon or Rozier.