Heat-Wolves

[sonictecture]

I've said it before quite a few times, but I don't think Chris Paul raises the Heat's quality that much. We are a team that can win the first round and will struggle to win the second round, with or without Chris Paul. What his advent definitely does do is reduce the possibility of the team in the future. I like the team with Winslow/Herro/Butler/Olynyk/Adebayo starting the most so far. Goran/Derrick Jones Jr/Kendrick Nunn off the bench.

Lowry's deal is better because it is only one year. I'd rather just go with who we have.

So you don’t agree Paul is better than what you would send out in trade? Wow.

I’ll be watching how the Heat start with a difficult schedule.

Lowry signed a one year extension. I don’t see the Miami flotsam getting Lowry.

[gom]

Barring severe injuries to our most important players, I've no concerns about classifying to the postseason, with or without Paul. Traditionally, Miami judges its success by our progress in the postseason. We want HCA and get into the second round. I think we're just as likely to do that with or without Paul. Given that we are unlikely to get much farther this season (barring, as BBallFreak posits insanely good development from one or more of our youth) what is the point in sacrificing so much future cap space? It's a ton of money poorly spent. Miami is a free agent destination, so it hurts for us to give up future flexibility.

[shrink]

I've said it before quite a few times, but I don't think Chris Paul raises the Heat's quality that much. We are a team that can win the first round and will struggle to win the second round, with or without Chris Paul. What his advent definitely does do is reduce the possibility of the team in the future.

I may be one of the biggest Chris Paul bashers on the forum, and I believe he is one of the three worst contracts in the NBA. However, I still think when he plays, he is a Top 30 players in the nba, this season and maybe next. I feel MIA definitely needs shot creation, and Paul would do okay next to Jimmy.

If the price was only the bad deals of Waiters (who you want gone) and James Johnson, (who won’t provide you much over the next two years), and Meyers Leonard, I would make that swap. He would provide more, and better, production than those two the next two years. Load manage Paul the best you can so he is ready for the playoffs, which is what matters. With Paul, I definitely see MIA as the #3 seed, and you never know what will happen to the teams in front of you. You may also see big growth out of one of your own young players. The cost of two years of improved wins is that ugly third year, but since MIA is a great free agent destination, I think it just delays your free agency one year.

[gom]

The price isn't paid this season. It's paid in opportunity cost in 2020 & 2021.

[shrink]

The price isn't paid this season. It's paid in opportunity cost in 2020 & 2021.

Agreed. You’d be a better team this season, and probably next season too. I said the price comes in 2022, when you have an extra year of Paul.

What opportunities would you miss out on, holding onto the bad deals of Waiters, and JJ?

[gom]

The price isn't paid this season. It's paid in opportunity cost in 2020 & 2021.

Agreed. You’d be a better team this season, and probably next season too. I said the price comes in 2022, when you have an extra year of Paul.

What opportunities would you miss out on, holding onto the bad deals of Waiters, and JJ?

Nothing really. Miami is not contending now, just trying to build to get close. Second round would be great.

2020 offseason isn't great for free agents, but both these deals expire in 2021, which is perfect for Miami's plans. The Heat have enough players even if they get nothing from Waiters.

[sonictecture]

The price isn't paid this season. It's paid in opportunity cost in 2020 & 2021.

Agreed. You’d be a better team this season, and probably next season too. I said the price comes in 2022, when you have an extra year of Paul.

What opportunities would you miss out on, holding onto the bad deals of Waiters, and JJ?

Nothing really. Miami is not contending now, just trying to build to get close. Second round would be great.

2020 offseason isn't great for free agents, but both these deals expire in 2021, which is perfect for Miami's plans. The Heat have enough players even if they get nothing from Waiters.

Whomever sold Heat fans on the idea of FA in the Summer of 2021 is salesman of the year.

[gom]

Because $44m Chris Paul will be the best available player for Miami? You know... I recognize the board's vast collective NBA knowledge, sonictecture, but just this once, I'm going to be naive and trust this newcomer Pat Riley.

[BBallFreak]

Because $44m Chris Paul will be the best available player for Miami? You know... I recognize the board's vast collective NBA knowledge, sonictecture, but just this once, I'm going to be naive and trust this newcomer Pat Riley.

Add to that, flexibility with the cap doesn’t have to mean free agency. It makes trades a hell of a lot easier as well. I’m with you gom, I’ll go with that guy, Riley on this one.

sonictecture, you love to twist people’s words to fit what you want it to say. You’ve done it to both gom and I in this thread. It’s not working. Maybe try arguing in good faith. Paul is fine this year but both of us are thinking long term. You should probably accept that.

[sonictecture]

Because $44m Chris Paul will be the best available player for Miami? You know... I recognize the board's vast collective NBA knowledge, sonictecture, but just this once, I'm going to be naive and trust this newcomer Pat Riley.

Add to that, flexibility with the cap doesn’t have to mean free agency. It makes trades a hell of a lot easier as well. I’m with you gom, I’ll go with that guy, Riley on this one.

sonictecture, you love to twist people’s words to fit what you want it to say. You’ve done it to both gom and I in this thread. It’s not working. Maybe try arguing in good faith. Paul is fine this year but both of us are thinking long term. You should probably accept that.

If I’ve misconstrued anything said in this thread, it was not my intention.

You and Gom both are so steadfast against the idea of Paul and then follow it up with statements about trusting Riley. You just traded a younger player and a frp for 30 year old Butler, but are willing to wait 2 seasons before getting another piece. It seems a confusing time to be a Heat fan.

[BBallFreak]

Because $44m Chris Paul will be the best available player for Miami? You know... I recognize the board's vast collective NBA knowledge, sonictecture, but just this once, I'm going to be naive and trust this newcomer Pat Riley.

Add to that, flexibility with the cap doesn’t have to mean free agency. It makes trades a hell of a lot easier as well. I’m with you gom, I’ll go with that guy, Riley on this one.

sonictecture, you love to twist people’s words to fit what you want it to say. You’ve done it to both gom and I in this thread. It’s not working. Maybe try arguing in good faith. Paul is fine this year but both of us are thinking long term. You should probably accept that.

If I’ve misconstrued anything said in this thread, it was not my intention.

You and Gom both are so steadfast against the idea of Paul and then follow it up with statements about trusting Riley. You just traded a younger player and a frp for 30 year old Butler, but are willing to wait 2 seasons before getting another piece. It seems a confusing time to be a Heat fan.

No, we're not willing to wait. We're just not willing to sacrifice that chance of 21 for a 37 year old Chris Paul making $44 million.

In other words, we want a smarter investment...

[gom]

The FRP was to get rid of Hassan Whiteside. Bargain, by the way.

It's pretty clear, sonictecture, that you don't give a rat's ass about Miami and are only trying to get rid of Chris Paul from the Sonics (?) Your team should just add a couple picks and trade him for Wiggins, an up and coming star.

[BBallFreak]

And that's what I was talking about with you taking words out of context BTW. Nowhere did either of us say we wanted to wait. At the top of this page, you accused gom of not thinking Paul was better than what was sent out:

So you don’t agree Paul is better than what you would send out in trade? Wow.

He never said that.

You just accused the both of us of not wanting to go all-in because we're talking about 2021. Again, we never said that.

I would (reluctantly) take Paul if we got our picks back with him because we could then trade other assets and our picks and attempt to actually contend. Without the picks though, Paul isn't worth it because, by himself (in combination with Butler), he doesn't propel us to the Finals. Making that kind of money, he should, so we need to recoup value and gain assets in order to be able to appropriately stock the shelves.

if he doesn't come with picks, we can look elsewhere, including but not limited to 2021.

And please don't give me any kind of garbage about our assets. Our assets are just fine. Yes, we're short on picks. I know that. But players shake free for a variety of reasons, and we have assets and short contracts to attach to them...

[gom]

I would prefer picks from other teams rather than the Miami picks. A trade I would consider:

MIA out: Goran Dragić, James Johnson, and Dion Waiters
MIA in: 2020 CHI 2nd, 2021 OKC 1st, 2023 HOU 1st, Chris Paul, JJ Barea if he wants to come and Dallas lets him.

OKC out: 2021 OKC 1st, 2023 HOU 1st, 2020 Chi 2nd, Chris Paul, Abdul Nader
OKC in: James Johnson, Courtney Lee, Justin Jackson, & Dion Waiters

DAL out: Justin Jackson, Courtney Lee, (JJ Barea if he wants to come and Dallas lets him)
DAL in: Goran Dragić, Abdul Nader

I still don't like it, but the OKC first in 2021 has a small chance of still being in the lottery and 2023 HOU might be too. And really anything less and the Thunder can go pound bricks. Miami doesn't need Chris Paul. I just want the picks back to use to get another player like Giannis.

Any trade for Paul must provide for immediate tax relief, get rid of Waiters, and return good FRPs (at least two.)

Also, it's pretty funny that *any* Miami related trade (even Heat-Wolves?) comes back to Chris Paul. Ew.

[sonictecture]

Add to that, flexibility with the cap doesn’t have to mean free agency. It makes trades a hell of a lot easier as well. I’m with you gom, I’ll go with that guy, Riley on this one.

sonictecture, you love to twist people’s words to fit what you want it to say. You’ve done it to both gom and I in this thread. It’s not working. Maybe try arguing in good faith. Paul is fine this year but both of us are thinking long term. You should probably accept that.

If I’ve misconstrued anything said in this thread, it was not my intention.

You and Gom both are so steadfast against the idea of Paul and then follow it up with statements about trusting Riley. You just traded a younger player and a frp for 30 year old Butler, but are willing to wait 2 seasons before getting another piece. It seems a confusing time to be a Heat fan.

No, we're not willing to wait. We're just not willing to sacrifice that chance of 21 for a 37 year old Chris Paul making $44 million.

In other words, we want a smarter investment...

Gom wrote above on this page that the plan is to wait...
[quote]Nothing really. Miami is not contending now, just trying to build to get close. Second round would be great.

2020 offseason isn't great for free agents, but both these deals expire in 2021, which is perfect for Miami's plans. The Heat have enough players even if they get nothing from Waiters.[\quote]

You’ve also mentioned waiting for the Summer of 2021.

I understand why you believe Paul is too risky.

[sonictecture]

The FRP was to get rid of Hassan Whiteside. Bargain, by the way.

It's pretty clear, sonictecture, that you don't give a rat's ass about Miami and are only trying to get rid of Chris Paul from the Sonics (?) Your team should just add a couple picks and trade him for Wiggins, an up and coming star.

Miami is in an interesting situation, it interests me as an nba fan. I don’t have an emotional attachment to the Heat either way, no.

The first was to the Clippers to take Harkless.

[sonictecture]

And that's what I was talking about with you taking words out of context BTW. Nowhere did either of us say we wanted to wait. At the top of this page, you accused gom of not thinking Paul was better than what was sent out:

So you don’t agree Paul is better than what you would send out in trade? Wow.

He never said that.

You just accused the both of us of not wanting to go all-in because we're talking about 2021. Again, we never said that.

I would (reluctantly) take Paul if we got our picks back with him because we could then trade other assets and our picks and attempt to actually contend. Without the picks though, Paul isn't worth it because, by himself (in combination with Butler), he doesn't propel us to the Finals. Making that kind of money, he should, so we need to recoup value and gain assets in order to be able to appropriately stock the shelves.

if he doesn't come with picks, we can look elsewhere, including but not limited to 2021.

And please don't give me any kind of garbage about our assets. Our assets are just fine. Yes, we're short on picks. I know that. But players shake free for a variety of reasons, and we have assets and short contracts to attach to them...

Gom stated that he didn’t think Paul would improve the team over the current players. To me, that is an insinuation that Paul isn’t better than the players the Heat would ship out.

I understand what you personally want in a trade for Paul.

I’m not trying to convince you, you’re wrong, I just acknowledge reasons why Riley would trade for Paul.

[BBallFreak]

Gom stated that he didn’t think Paul would improve the team over the current players. To me, that is an insinuation that Paul isn’t better than the players the Heat would ship out.

I understand what you personally want in a trade for Paul.

I’m not trying to convince you, you’re wrong, I just acknowledge reasons why Riley would trade for Paul.

That's not at all what he said. There is a big difference between a sweep and a 7 game series.

[sonictecture]

gom wrote:
I've said it before quite a few times, but I don't think Chris Paul raises the Heat's quality that much. We are a team that can win the first round and will struggle to win the second round, with or without Chris Paul. What his advent definitely does do is reduce the possibility of the team in the future.

[BBallFreak]

gom wrote:
I've said it before quite a few times, but I don't think Chris Paul raises the Heat's quality that much. We are a team that can win the first round and will struggle to win the second round, with or without Chris Paul. What his advent definitely does do is reduce the possibility of the team in the future.

Exactly, and there is a difference between a sweep and a 7 game series, is their not? He doesn't see Paul lifting us past the second round. What's your problem with that?