OT: Official KP Thread

[K_ick_God]

I think some of the KP stuff is now a little out of hand. It didn't work out. And I never liked him. But it could work out.

Also we did well with RJ and we have a team full of interesting players. A buffet of goodness. I prefer Mitch to KP, honestly, but am disappointed he didn't come into camp in top shape.

I support Randle. He can pass and score and hopefully he can pull together his D. If I had to take KP or Randle at their real current dollar amounts, I guess I'd take KP and hope he stays healthy. But I wouldn't be that confident even taking KP over Randle.

I like that Randle can pass and is strong. His 3 ball is coming around. I'm good.

[K_ick_God]

KP 1st game as the #1 option at the age of 22

31 Pts 12 rebs 1 ast 1 blk 11-25 FG 2-6 3PT 7-9 FT

Randle wouldn't put up the same numbers he did in our first game if he's the 2nd option.

Straight forward.

And the same ol KP played like ass after his hot start every year. Randle has been more consistent than him and that’s a fact. Go look at his monster numbers last year without AD. With AD he put up similar numbers as well and he was the third option. Don’t think it’s a stretch to say he can put up the same numbers with Luka.

Not sure why you’re even caping hard for KP. Dude did us dirty and acted like a diva.

Who here besides you has been caping for Randle for years? Me. I'm not trying to downplay how good Randle is or has been. I'm saying that guys take a hit when they go from #1 to from #2. So comparing numbers of a #2 option to a #1 option isn't apples to apples.

I don't blame KP for wanting out. They had a chance to set up something awesome and Mills f'd it up big time.

Hope they don't do the same to RJB.

You're a smart guy but sometimes hard to follow a little bit -- just so I understand it, what is your "something awesome" that you're referring to? RJB and KP .. or ... RJB and KP _AND_ Randle?

I'm lost lol.

I mean you could do this all day ... we could have had Donovan Mitchell. But then we probably wouldn't have had RJB.

[dakomish23]

And the same ol KP played like ass after his hot start every year. Randle has been more consistent than him and that’s a fact. Go look at his monster numbers last year without AD. With AD he put up similar numbers as well and he was the third option. Don’t think it’s a stretch to say he can put up the same numbers with Luka.

Not sure why you’re even caping hard for KP. Dude did us dirty and acted like a diva.

Who here besides you has been caping for Randle for years? Me. I'm not trying to downplay how good Randle is or has been. I'm saying that guys take a hit when they go from #1 to from #2. So comparing numbers of a #2 option to a #1 option isn't apples to apples.

I don't blame KP for wanting out. They had a chance to set up something awesome and Mills f'd it up big time.

Hope they don't do the same to RJB.

You're a smart guy but sometimes hard to follow a little bit -- just so I understand it, what is your "something awesome" that you're referring to? RJB and KP .. or ... RJB and KP _AND_ Randle?

I'm lost lol.

I mean you could do this all day ... we could have had Donovan Mitchell. But then we probably wouldn't have had RJB.

Focus on the kids in 2017-18. Be bad as expected. Pick a franchise cornerstone in the top 5 (Luka was my goal all year). Have cornerstones your drafted. Have good role players you developed. Use the cap space we wasted on THJ to get assets. (We could have used that to dump Noah instead of stretching him). Rinse and repeat for 2018-19. Leave a crap ton of space open in 2019. Add ppl via FA as the last step.

The hardest thing to do is get one. We had that. We messed it up.

I’m hoping we don’t do the same for RJB.

[K_ick_God]

Who here besides you has been caping for Randle for years? Me. I'm not trying to downplay how good Randle is or has been. I'm saying that guys take a hit when they go from #1 to from #2. So comparing numbers of a #2 option to a #1 option isn't apples to apples.

I don't blame KP for wanting out. They had a chance to set up something awesome and Mills f'd it up big time.

Hope they don't do the same to RJB.

You're a smart guy but sometimes hard to follow a little bit -- just so I understand it, what is your "something awesome" that you're referring to? RJB and KP .. or ... RJB and KP _AND_ Randle?

I'm lost lol.

I mean you could do this all day ... we could have had Donovan Mitchell. But then we probably wouldn't have had RJB.

Focus on the kids in 2017-18. Be bad as expected. Pick a franchise cornerstone in the top 5 (Luka was my goal all year). Have cornerstones your drafted. Have good role players you developed. Use the cap space we wasted on THJ to get assets. (We could have used that to dump Noah instead of stretching him). Rinse and repeat for 2018-19. Leave a crap ton of space open in 2019. Add ppl via FA as the last step.

The hardest thing to do is get one. We had that. We messed it up.

I’m hoping we don’t do the same for RJB.

Okay fair enough but you’re skirting past a lot of uncertainty like getting people to trade you assets, drafting Luka, etc.

Even if you maximize assets, they can mostly all be squandered, like Boston lol.

[dakomish23]

You're a smart guy but sometimes hard to follow a little bit -- just so I understand it, what is your "something awesome" that you're referring to? RJB and KP .. or ... RJB and KP _AND_ Randle?

I'm lost lol.

I mean you could do this all day ... we could have had Donovan Mitchell. But then we probably wouldn't have had RJB.

Focus on the kids in 2017-18. Be bad as expected. Pick a franchise cornerstone in the top 5 (Luka was my goal all year). Have cornerstones your drafted. Have good role players you developed. Use the cap space we wasted on THJ to get assets. (We could have used that to dump Noah instead of stretching him). Rinse and repeat for 2018-19. Leave a crap ton of space open in 2019. Add ppl via FA as the last step.

The hardest thing to do is get one. We had that. We messed it up.

I’m hoping we don’t do the same for RJB.

Okay fair enough but you’re skirting past a lot of uncertainty like getting people to trade you assets, drafting Luka, etc.

Even if you maximize assets, they can mostly all be squandered, like Boston lol.

Assets were there. LAC was looking for someone to take on Crawford.

I’d take anyone in that top 5.

Anyway, they already started doing it again by forgoing assets this summer. We’ll see what they do from here now that they know they got something in RJB

[Phish Tank]

Read on Twitter

Sorry Rick, tried to warn ya.

[duetta]

Another 4 rebound game.

[ChaosHamster]

Good for Carlisle to bench KP for the last 2 mins.

Its gonna be a teaching moment. You don't call high post-ups against one of the best post up defenders in the league and then commit a dumb foul when you get locked down.

And KP should've known this. Jrue locked him down every time when he was still on the Knicks.

But overall a nice game from him.

[robillionaire]

can mods move this to the mavericks board or something

[dakomish23]

KP had a really strong game. Had some poor turnovers toward the end but he was great tonight shooting and protecting the rim.

24 PTS 4 REBS 3 ASTS 5 BLKS
8-17 FGA 3-5 3PT 5-8 FT

[iLLmatic860]

We got fleeced. Shouldve matched KP and traded him for somebody better than DSJ

[OpiumDose]

His rebounding so far has been underwhelming to say the least, but other than that KP really looks good for a guy who hadn't played in 20 months. And seeing how garbage DSJ is looking, the KP trade looks worse and worse for the Knicks - they really did give him away for free.

[Oscirus]

If they actively keep KP in that 30 minute range it might answer a lot of questions as to how to keep him from wearing down over the course of a year

[Clyde_Style]

His rebounding so far has been underwhelming to say the least, but other than that KP really looks good for a guy who hadn't played in 20 months. And seeing how garbage DSJ is looking, the KP trade looks worse and worse for the Knicks - they really did give him away for free.

KP is fragile. That $158M deal sure is going to sting badly when he goes down in a heap again. And he will.

[OpiumDose]

His rebounding so far has been underwhelming to say the least, but other than that KP really looks good for a guy who hadn't played in 20 months. And seeing how garbage DSJ is looking, the KP trade looks worse and worse for the Knicks - they really did give him away for free.

KP is fragile. That $158M deal sure is going to sting badly when he goes down in a heap again. And he will.

This "KP is very injury prone" thing has been really, really exaggerated. I don't know who started it, but it's gotten really ridiculous. Let's just go through his career so far and see just how injury prone he is. I think we can all agree that missing just one game here and there doesn't really count as injuries, right? So,

Rookie season - KP missed only 3 games up until 76th game of the season and all of the misses were just a single game here and there - so no injuries to talk about yet. He did get injured in his 75th game of the season. And at that point it was the garbage time for Knicks - no hope making play-offs. So Knicks had absolutely nothing to gain by even trying to bring KP back sooner - he was shut down. It was not a serious injury and KP was even asked if he could play if it was needed and said that he could. So, yes. Rookie season - one injury, missed 7 last games of the season which didn't mean anything.

Sophmore season - had a bit more missed games, but again no serious injuries - most b2b games that he missed was 5 and that was once again at the very end of the season when he was promptly shut down as Knicks were once again playing for absolutely nothing. I'd say he had 3 minor injuries that season, which made him miss 3, 4 and 5 games respectively. Honestly, not that big of a deal is it?

Third season - missed 7 games up until his ACL injury. And 2 of those were because of that freak injury were his foot turned sideways against Miami - remember that? Everybody thought he might be out for a while there, but it was only 2 games. Other than that there were no serious injuries and he was just missing one game here and there. Until, of course, the freak injury of ACL.

So that's it. How many very serious injuries did he have with the Knicks? I'd say 1 - the ACL tear. Then he had 2 more notable injuries at the end of Seasons 1 and 2, but we can't really judge the seriousness of those injuries because he would have been shut-down at that point even if the injuries were pretty minor. And that about covers it - missed some more games in 2nd season, but nothing that put him out for weeks.

And now that he is on minutes restriction on Mavs and he will not play b2b, we might actually see an improvement in his conditioning, stamina and overall performance. Injuries might still happen, but they might happen to anybody at any time. KP might be a bit higher risk of an injury, much like AD, for example, but let's not pretend like KP has been mostly injured his whole career. Take out the ACL injury and he has played in 186 out of 219 games, which totals to 85%.

[MrOrange]

His rebounding so far has been underwhelming to say the least, but other than that KP really looks good for a guy who hadn't played in 20 months. And seeing how garbage DSJ is looking, the KP trade looks worse and worse for the Knicks - they really did give him away for free.

KP is fragile. That $158M deal sure is going to sting badly when he goes down in a heap again. And he will.

Two zero vs zero Two must sting:

[duetta]

We got fleeced. Shouldve matched KP and traded him for somebody better than DSJ

Yep. Dallas was looking to move him early in his 2nd year. That should tell you something.

The picks that we're getting will likely not be great.

They thought they were going to hit to gold in free agency by unloading Jackson / Mills previous mistakes (Lee, Hardaway), but they didn't do much with the additional space.

This is not a well-run team. We're two games into Randle's tenure and we're already eagerly anticipating his contract expiring! Sick.

[Jstock12]

Another 4 rebound game.

And measly 5 blocks with shooting 60% from three, as well as 3 assists. I know the hate is strong with KP, but come on. Let's be objective and agree that he's a super talented young player with some flaws (both on-court and off-court) and potential injury concerns.

[thebuzzardman]

Who here besides you has been caping for Randle for years? Me. I'm not trying to downplay how good Randle is or has been. I'm saying that guys take a hit when they go from #1 to from #2. So comparing numbers of a #2 option to a #1 option isn't apples to apples.

I don't blame KP for wanting out. They had a chance to set up something awesome and Mills f'd it up big time.

Hope they don't do the same to RJB.

You're a smart guy but sometimes hard to follow a little bit -- just so I understand it, what is your "something awesome" that you're referring to? RJB and KP .. or ... RJB and KP _AND_ Randle?

I'm lost lol.

I mean you could do this all day ... we could have had Donovan Mitchell. But then we probably wouldn't have had RJB.

Focus on the kids in 2017-18. Be bad as expected. Pick a franchise cornerstone in the top 5 (Luka was my goal all year). Have cornerstones your drafted. Have good role players you developed. Use the cap space we wasted on THJ to get assets. (We could have used that to dump Noah instead of stretching him). Rinse and repeat for 2018-19. Leave a crap ton of space open in 2019. Add ppl via FA as the last step.

The hardest thing to do is get one. We had that. We messed it up.

I’m hoping we don’t do the same for RJB.

Dakomish was the leader of the tank for Luka brigade that year. I was a pretty big advocate as well. Of course there were lots of others. In fact, not sure how realistic this is, but if possible Knicks should have traded some future firsts to move up for Donic.

Would have changed the whole equation with KP, though post injury etc there's still a valid argument of it he'd be worth it. But it would be cool either way, because the Knicks would have that big time creating scoring PG or wing, only the blueprint for success in the NBA for like 75% of it's existence.

[thebuzzardman]

We got fleeced. Shouldve matched KP and traded him for somebody better than DSJ

Yep. Dallas was looking to move him early in his 2nd year. That should tell you something.

The picks that we're getting will likely not be great.

They thought they were going to hit to gold in free agency by unloading Jackson / Mills previous mistakes (Lee, Hardaway), but they didn't do much with the additional space.

This is not a well-run team. We're two games into Randle's tenure and we're already eagerly anticipating his contract expiring! Sick.

I'm not yet totally sure how the team is run, meaning bad or good. I've leaned towards good. I'm starting to wonder. This offseason I said would prove a lot. I don't think they did GREAT but their fallback was decent. Again, not "very good" or "good" but they maintained cap flexibility on the whole.

The KP trade has always had the potential, with hindsight after a couple of years, of looking like anything from "great" for the Knicks (KP gets hurt a lot) to "decent" (KP plays ok, Mavs picks fall in the mid teens, DSJr plays ok) to passable to mediocre. I don't think it ever winds up as "bad".

The two picks, even if they both wind up in the 20's, along with shedding salary, even if it would have "expired" in the approximate timeframe of the FA signings (wouldn't THJr picking up his option go 1 year past this year?) still, to me, always has the trade land in passable to mediocre, even if KP does great etc etc .

Why? Because even if it took moving KP, which he probably forced - that's another discussion - the Knicks got back two future 1st rounders. Sure, they aren't lottery picks. But good teams accumulate picks, which are useful for trading up in the draft with your own pick, throwing in to sweeten a deal for a very good player, give a team an ability to get a good player who falls in a draft, etc.

A more positive sign would have been the Knicks using some Portis or "FA X" signed this offseason to add yet another pick for taking on a few years of someone, I guess Iguodola being the best example. One of the reasons I have the Knicks FO trending from being pretty good post Perry to "decent" and not exactly trending upwards in my opinion.