BS Defensive System

[clipperlover]

For several years, it seemed like the issue was the individual players and their ability to defend. However, we know that this year, we have a bunch of good defenders, but this team is still bleeding points in droves. Seems to me the defensive system itself is defective.

This "Clamp City" talk is BS. They have only had one quarter of clamp D all season. One quarter out of 12 that we held a team below 25 pts in a quarter. We have given up 31, 33 and 36 in the 3rd quarter of each of our games this season. What kind of half-time adjustments are they making?

Clips gave up 75 pts in the 2nd half last night to a team playing on the 2nd night of a back to back. The Lakers gave up 85 for the GAME Friday night. I guess L.A. does have a clamp city team, just the one coached by a coach that actually values D. The Clips D has to improve. Wished they would have hired Thibs in the off-season to run the D vice LeBron's assistant coach from Cleveland.

[TheNewEra]

The effort seems to fall off when they have a big lead and against the suns it’s not there at all

[NippySudz]

You're being too harsh after 3 games. Ty Lue is getting re-acclimated with the team and personnel on the defense.

The lakers played the whole game against the jazz. In the warriors victory, Kawhi checked out in the 3rd quarter five mins remaining and didn't check back in once. When Kawhi checked out, they went on a 20 something run and still were behind. The numbers are a bit skewed for the lakers because key players have played the required mins.

The year the cavs won the title they were third in the league in def only allowing 103pts per game. in the regular season. In the post season, they were first. In 2013-2014 regular season, as ty lue as the assistant coach, the defense rating was good enough for 3rd place in the regular season.

if you want to give lebron all the credit, You'll be mistaken. His second championship in miami was worse defensively. finished 5th for the regular season.

I think its unfair to blame Lue which he's been proven to be a good defensive coach.

[NippySudz]

It could be that the suns are the good. This is a team that lost to denver, a top contending team by ONE point.

Lets see, the clippers play the hornets tonight, same team lakers played last night. I expect the clippers to have a much better effort than the lakers.

[QRich3]

I don't think there's any issue with the system, we just have a roster that presents defensive problems, this has already been discussed a lot during the offseason and should be no surprise. People focus on the defensive upside of the three perimeter guys that are good, but there's 12 more guys in the roster, and the defensive ability for most of them is not great.

Having the perfect team is impossible, that's why there's a salary cap and a draft in place, but if we're gonna marvel at how the front office managed to have Lou Will and Trez for only $14M, we also have to be ok with their flaws, and having them both on the court together means we're gonna have a great offense, but also that we're gonna be vulnerable on defense. Shamet has some defensive upside for the future, but as of today, he's not a good defender either. Those three are the top 3 guys in minutes played, they alone account for 40% of the minutes played so far.

Lou's problems with anything related to defense, or Trez footwork when switching, or Sham's tendency to die on screens is not gonna get fixed with a new system or a new defensive assistant. It can only be fixed if you trade them away, and I'm not sure there's a good option out there.

So at the end of the day, it is what it is, it's a flaw from this roster's construction and we're gonna have to live with it. It'd be great if we had the perfect team and steamrolled the league, but that's not a realistic thing you can ask for.

[QRich3]

Checking some of the on/off stats from these three games, it confirms what I feared in regards to Lou/Trez/Sham.

Shamet - Clippers are 23.1 points per 100 possessions better defensively when Sham sits than when he's on the floor (96.2 DRtg when he's on the bench vs 119.3 when he's on the floor)
Lou - Clippers are are 20.2 points per 100 possessions better defensively when Lou sits than when he's on the floor (99.1 vs 119.3 DRtg)
Trez - Clippers are are 17.3 points per 100 possessions better defensively when Lou sits than when he's on the floor (101.8 vs 119.1 DRtg)

For comparison's sake, let's watch some of the good defenders we have:

Beverley - the Clippers are 25.3 points per 100 worse when Bev sits than when he's on (127.9 DRtg when he sits vs 102.6 when he's on)
Zubac - Clippers are 17.2 points per 100 worse when Zu sits than when he's on (118.3 vs 101.1 DRtg)
Kawhi - Clippers are 10 points per 100 worse when Kawhi sits than when he's on (118.2 vs 108.2 DRtg)

It's obviously very early and these are exaggerated numbers based on a very small sample size that relies on random things happening, but the trend already matches the offseason predictions. Hopefully when George comes back this gets a little bit mitigated, but the fat that some of our key rotation pieces are just bad at defense is not gonna change. So we better get used to it.

[Forte IV]

This thread seems premature. The defense has only looked bad for one game. You cant count the Warriors game because the last 8 minutes or so were garbage time and Kawhi played what? 4 minutes in the second half?

[elgrandeques0]

Handle: clipperlover
Joined: September 2019
I'm not going to come out and SAY that you're not a long time fan, but I suspect that you haven't seen any true BS defensive systems...

[SK21209]

Checking some of the on/off stats from these three games, it confirms what I feared in regards to Lou/Trez/Sham.

Shamet - Clippers are 23.1 points per 100 possessions better defensively when Sham sits than when he's on the floor (96.2 DRtg when he's on the bench vs 119.3 when he's on the floor)
Lou - Clippers are are 20.2 points per 100 possessions better defensively when Lou sits than when he's on the floor (99.1 vs 119.3 DRtg)
Trez - Clippers are are 17.3 points per 100 possessions better defensively when Lou sits than when he's on the floor (101.8 vs 119.1 DRtg)

For comparison's sake, let's watch some of the good defenders we have:

Beverley - the Clippers are 25.3 points per 100 worse when Bev sits than when he's on (127.9 DRtg when he sits vs 102.6 when he's on)
Zubac - Clippers are 17.2 points per 100 worse when Zu sits than when he's on (118.3 vs 101.1 DRtg)
Kawhi - Clippers are 10 points per 100 worse when Kawhi sits than when he's on (118.2 vs 108.2 DRtg)

It's obviously very early and these are exaggerated numbers based on a very small sample size that relies on random things happening, but the trend already matches the offseason predictions. Hopefully when George comes back this gets a little bit mitigated, but the fat that some of our key rotation pieces are just bad at defense is not gonna change. So we better get used to it.

This, the problem is that Doc feels the need to play Lou and Trez more while PG is out to generate offense. Lou and Trez are awesome but their value is in destroying the other bench units; they're too exploitable against starting caliber offensive players. I think we need to lean into a more defensive identity, even with PG out, by reducing Lou and Trez's minutes to the mid-20's. It's much easier to manufacture offense than defense.

[clipperlover]

This thread seems premature. The defense has only looked bad for one game. You cant count the Warriors game because the last 8 minutes or so were garbage time and Kawhi played what? 4 minutes in the second half?

Not premature. Do you know what the Clippers record was last season when they gave up 120 or more points? 5-23

2017-2018: 4-13

Top defensive teams can hold their opponents to 105 on a regular basis. Clippers were 12-1 last season when they did that. The problem is they only did that 13 times. 2017-2018 they held opponents to 105 or less 36 times and were 27-9 in those games. The difference between 2017-2018 and last year was Rex Kalamian.

Check out the top teams from last year and their record when giving up 120 or more vice 105 or less. That fact that two games into the 'Clamp City" season we are progressively giving up more points coming out of half time is a problem that needs addressed sooner rather than later. Your D can't be just trying to score more points.

[Forte IV]

It's 3 games into the NBA season. Settle down Mike Smith

[Young Sterling]

I know why Pat Pat is in the starting lineup, but Doc needs to put either Green or Moooooooeeeee in the starting lineup, maybe both if big Zu ain't switching right. I'm like 99% sure that would fix our defensive woes...

[clipperlover]

Handle: clipperlover
Joined: September 2019
I'm not going to come out and SAY that you're not a long time fan, but I suspect that you haven't seen any true BS defensive systems...

I guess I didn't realize I need to have you check my Clippers fan card because I joined this message board in September after the message board system I was previously using for nearly 20 years shut down.

Do I need to bust out a Joe Wolf, Gary Grant, Ken Norman, Tyrone Nesby, Winston Garland, Mr. Bean, Wang Zhi Zhi, Troy Hudson, Brian Skinner reference?

Do I need to look for my ticket stub for the lone home playoff game in 1997 vs Utah or the cheap little towel they handed out?

Maybe I can find the ticket stub for the game in the first season at Staples where Vince Carter drained a game winner at the buzzer against us and right in front of me?

Do I need to describe the Rolls Royce Jimmy Goldstein used to drive and sit out in front of the Sports Arena?

Maybe the picture I have of me and the rookie Loy Vaught outside the Forum after the Clips lost to the Sedale Threatt-Magic Johnson less Lakers on the last day of the 91-92 season will do?

Please let me know where I need to send for official Clippers fan status verification.

[Young Sterling]

Handle: clipperlover
Joined: September 2019
I'm not going to come out and SAY that you're not a long time fan, but I suspect that you haven't seen any true BS defensive systems...

I guess I didn't realize I need to have you check my Clippers fan card because I joined this message board in September after the message board system I was previously using for nearly 20 years shut down.

Do I need to bust out a Joe Wolf, Gary Grant, Ken Norman, Tyrone Nesby, Winston Garland, Mr. Bean, Wang Zhi Zhi, Troy Hudson, Brian Skinner reference?

Do I need to look for my ticket stub for the lone home playoff game in 1997 vs Utah or the cheap little towel they handed out?

Maybe I can find the ticket stub for the game in the first season at Staples where Vince Carter drained a game winner at the buzzer against us and right in front of me?

Do I need to describe the Rolls Royce Jimmy Goldstein used to drive and sit out in front of the Sports Arena?

Maybe the picture I have of me and the rookie Loy Vaught outside the Forum after the Clips lost to the Sedale Threatt-Magic Johnson less Lakers on the last day of the 91-92 season will do?

Please let me know where I need to send for official Clippers fan status verification.

Everyone: Hating.

Clipperlover:

[esqtvd]

Handle: clipperlover
Joined: September 2019
I'm not going to come out and SAY that you're not a long time fan, but I suspect that you haven't seen any true BS defensive systems...

I guess I didn't realize I need to have you check my Clippers fan card because I joined this message board in September after the message board system I was previously using for nearly 20 years shut down.

Do I need to bust out a Joe Wolf, Gary Grant, Ken Norman, Tyrone Nesby, Winston Garland, Mr. Bean, Wang Zhi Zhi, Troy Hudson, Brian Skinner reference?

Do I need to look for my ticket stub for the lone home playoff game in 1997 vs Utah or the cheap little towel they handed out?

Maybe I can find the ticket stub for the game in the first season at Staples where Vince Carter drained a game winner at the buzzer against us and right in front of me?

Do I need to describe the Rolls Royce Jimmy Goldstein used to drive and sit out in front of the Sports Arena?

Maybe the picture I have of me and the rookie Loy Vaught outside the Forum after the Clips lost to the Sedale Threatt-Magic Johnson less Lakers on the last day of the 91-92 season will do?

Please let me know where I need to send for official Clippers fan status verification.

I was on that board. I can vouch for the brother.

Good to see you, CL.

[Forte IV]

Handle: clipperlover
Joined: September 2019
I'm not going to come out and SAY that you're not a long time fan, but I suspect that you haven't seen any true BS defensive systems...

I guess I didn't realize I need to have you check my Clippers fan card because I joined this message board in September after the message board system I was previously using for nearly 20 years shut down.

Do I need to bust out a Joe Wolf, Gary Grant, Ken Norman, Tyrone Nesby, Winston Garland, Mr. Bean, Wang Zhi Zhi, Troy Hudson, Brian Skinner reference?

Do I need to look for my ticket stub for the lone home playoff game in 1997 vs Utah or the cheap little towel they handed out?

Maybe I can find the ticket stub for the game in the first season at Staples where Vince Carter drained a game winner at the buzzer against us and right in front of me?

Do I need to describe the Rolls Royce Jimmy Goldstein used to drive and sit out in front of the Sports Arena?

Maybe the picture I have of me and the rookie Loy Vaught outside the Forum after the Clips lost to the Sedale Threatt-Magic Johnson less Lakers on the last day of the 91-92 season will do?

Please let me know where I need to send for official Clippers fan status verification.

You didnt talk about Marko Jaric, Quinton Ross or Daniel Ewing so you cant possibility be a real fan

[nickhx2]

don't agree with the premise of the thread, and i think if there are issues with it then perhaps cite some concrete examples of certain schematics or configurations that don't make sense.

but to question OP's fandom (or anyone else's, really) based off of join date is pretty silly.

[esqtvd]

don't agree with the premise of the thread, and i think if there are issues with it then perhaps cite some concrete examples of certain schematics or configurations that don't make sense.

but to question OP's fandom (or anyone else's, really) based off of join date is pretty silly.

FTR, we are temporizing until PG gets back.

The 6-foot-9 Patterson started each game at power forward, though that is subject to change in Rivers’ self-described “sliding” lineup where only Leonard and George, when healthy, hold guaranteed spots. Rivers has called 6-8 Maurice Harkless likely the best fit to start alongside the superstar tandem, upon George’s debut following his recovery from offseason shoulder surgeries, given the trio all can guard multiple positions, making it easier to switch defensively.

JaMychal Green, another 6-9 forward, meanwhile, has made 69% of the 4.3 three-pointers he’s attempted each game.

For now, Patterson has stuck with a starting lineup featuring Beverley and Leonard, guard Landry Shamet and center Ivica Zubac. Rivers has praised Patterson’s serious approach to his work, and defensively the 10th-year veteran blocked a shot at the rim and drew a charge Saturday against Phoenix. The defensive plays helped on a night where he made one of his five three-pointers.

“He brings energy. Obviously, defense and some smarts on both ends of the floor,” Leonard said. “He’s a communicator. Spacing out the floor well. He’s doing a good job.”

https://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/story/2019-10-27/patrick-patterson-clippers-plans

[clipperlover]

You didnt talk about Marko Jaric, Quinton Ross or Daniel Ewing so you cant possibility be a real fan

Crap. I also didn't mention the time I walked into the Clips offices trying to get a meeting with Elgin to voice my concern over them not offering the max to Mo Taylor. (Huge mistake in hindsight). Guess I could have mentioned the career path of a goofy looking guy with a bowl cut walking around the arena who became the Director of Communications (good job Rob). Does Johnny Doyle ring a bell?

In all seriousness, Ross was one of the hardest working defenders ever to wear the uniform. The guy was always dripping with sweat. I am probably one of the few people that don't blame Daniel Ewing for Raja Bell hitting an unbelievable contested shot over him after recovering from Bell's push off.

CBA to NBA Bo Outlaw probably one of my favorite Clips ever.

[nickhx2]

lmao i feel like i vaguely remember that story of yours, about talking to elgin


i wonder how valuable a guy like bo outlaw would be in today's nba where versatile wing defenders are at a premium