2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

[Jim Naismith]

Curry is the offensive version of Garnett.

A great ceiling raiser, but a poor floor raiser.

[Colbinii]

Curry is the offensive version of Garnett.

A great ceiling raiser, but a poor floor raiser.

What about the other way around where Garnett was a clear top 5-10 offensive player through his prime?

Or the fact that Garnett carried garbage to the post-season for half of a decade?

[Jim Naismith]

Curry is the offensive version of Garnett.

A great ceiling raiser, but a poor floor raiser.

What about the other way around where Garnett was a clear top 5-10 offensive player through his prime?

Or the fact that Garnett carried garbage to the post-season for half of a decade?

Curry's situation is similar to 2005-07 Garnett.

[Colbinii]

Curry is the offensive version of Garnett.

A great ceiling raiser, but a poor floor raiser.

What about the other way around where Garnett was a clear top 5-10 offensive player through his prime?

Or the fact that Garnett carried garbage to the post-season for half of a decade?

Curry's situation is similar to 2005-07 Garnett.

Looks like the Wizards will be trading Rui for him [Al Jefferson] to pair him with a star [Beal].

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Curry is the offensive version of Garnett.

A great ceiling raiser, but a poor floor raiser.

What about the other way around where Garnett was a clear top 5-10 offensive player through his prime?

Or the fact that Garnett carried garbage to the post-season for half of a decade?

Curry's situation is similar to 2005-07 Garnett.

Curry has a better team than 05/06 Kobe. Draymond is much better player than Lamar Odom. Kobe carried Lakers 05/06 with worse teams. If curry continues this play, it ends the Kobe/Curry debate. It should of never been a debate in the first place!

Curry can pound on you when his team overwhelms you but if things are even, he chokes. Now he lost Klay and he looks like one of the worst starters in the league to start the season. Curry is overrated man, just press him full court and he gets worn down and plays like crap. Even Shamet locks him up.

[cpower]

What about the other way around where Garnett was a clear top 5-10 offensive player through his prime?

Or the fact that Garnett carried garbage to the post-season for half of a decade?

Curry's situation is similar to 2005-07 Garnett.

Curry has a better team than 05/06 Kobe. Draymond is much better player than Lamar Odom. Kobe carried Lakers 05/06 with worse teams. If curry continues this play, it ends the Kobe/Curry debate. It should of never been a debate in the first place!

Curry can pound on you when his team overwhelms you but if things are even, he chokes. Now he lost Klay and he looks like one of the worst starters in the league to start the season. Curry is overrated man, just press him full court and he gets worn down and plays like crap. Even Shamet locks him up.

HBK you have been bashing Curry every thread and I wonder what is your issue. Every metric has ranked Curry really high for the last 5-6 years and what you said is ridiculous and baseless.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-players-of-the-last-6-seasons/

[clyde21]

Curry's situation is similar to 2005-07 Garnett.

Curry has a better team than 05/06 Kobe. Draymond is much better player than Lamar Odom. Kobe carried Lakers 05/06 with worse teams. If curry continues this play, it ends the Kobe/Curry debate. It should of never been a debate in the first place!

Curry can pound on you when his team overwhelms you but if things are even, he chokes. Now he lost Klay and he looks like one of the worst starters in the league to start the season. Curry is overrated man, just press him full court and he gets worn down and plays like crap. Even Shamet locks him up.

HBK you have been bashing Curry every thread and I wonder what is your issue. Every metric has ranked Curry really high for the last 5-6 years and what you said is ridiculous and baseless.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-players-of-the-last-6-seasons/

he keeps getting embarrassed over the Kawhi stuff so he feels like Curry is an easy target to take it out on right now, let's see how long his posts hold up.

[Colbinii]

Curry has a better team than 05/06 Kobe. Draymond is much better player than Lamar Odom. Kobe carried Lakers 05/06 with worse teams. If curry continues this play, it ends the Kobe/Curry debate. It should of never been a debate in the first place!

Curry can pound on you when his team overwhelms you but if things are even, he chokes. Now he lost Klay and he looks like one of the worst starters in the league to start the season. Curry is overrated man, just press him full court and he gets worn down and plays like crap. Even Shamet locks him up.

HBK you have been bashing Curry every thread and I wonder what is your issue. Every metric has ranked Curry really high for the last 5-6 years and what you said is ridiculous and baseless.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-players-of-the-last-6-seasons/

he keeps getting embarrassed over the Kawhi stuff so he feels like Curry is an easy target to take it out on right now, let's see how long his posts hold up.

We all have insecurities. Some of us are insecure about ourselves and some of us are insecure about...our favorite NBA Players?

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Curry's situation is similar to 2005-07 Garnett.

Curry has a better team than 05/06 Kobe. Draymond is much better player than Lamar Odom. Kobe carried Lakers 05/06 with worse teams. If curry continues this play, it ends the Kobe/Curry debate. It should of never been a debate in the first place!

Curry can pound on you when his team overwhelms you but if things are even, he chokes. Now he lost Klay and he looks like one of the worst starters in the league to start the season. Curry is overrated man, just press him full court and he gets worn down and plays like crap. Even Shamet locks him up.

HBK you have been bashing Curry every thread and I wonder what is your issue. Every metric has ranked Curry really high for the last 5-6 years and what you said is ridiculous and baseless.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-players-of-the-last-6-seasons/

He's not an elite offensive anchor if he can only anchor teams with elite talent around him is all I'm saying. He's really stinking it up so far this year.

[Colbinii]

Curry has a better team than 05/06 Kobe. Draymond is much better player than Lamar Odom. Kobe carried Lakers 05/06 with worse teams. If curry continues this play, it ends the Kobe/Curry debate. It should of never been a debate in the first place!

Curry can pound on you when his team overwhelms you but if things are even, he chokes. Now he lost Klay and he looks like one of the worst starters in the league to start the season. Curry is overrated man, just press him full court and he gets worn down and plays like crap. Even Shamet locks him up.

HBK you have been bashing Curry every thread and I wonder what is your issue. Every metric has ranked Curry really high for the last 5-6 years and what you said is ridiculous and baseless.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-players-of-the-last-6-seasons/

He's not an elite offensive anchor if he can only anchor teams with elite talent around him is all I'm saying. He's really stinking it up so far this year.

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

[clyde21]

HBK you have been bashing Curry every thread and I wonder what is your issue. Every metric has ranked Curry really high for the last 5-6 years and what you said is ridiculous and baseless.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-players-of-the-last-6-seasons/

He's not an elite offensive anchor if he can only anchor teams with elite talent around him is all I'm saying. He's really stinking it up so far this year.

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

when has Kawhi ever not had elite talent around him in the NBA?

[Colbinii]

He's not an elite offensive anchor if he can only anchor teams with elite talent around him is all I'm saying. He's really stinking it up so far this year.

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

when has Kawhi ever not had elite talent around him in the NBA?

Last year when the Raptors played at a 60-win pace without him.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

HBK you have been bashing Curry every thread and I wonder what is your issue. Every metric has ranked Curry really high for the last 5-6 years and what you said is ridiculous and baseless.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-players-of-the-last-6-seasons/

He's not an elite offensive anchor if he can only anchor teams with elite talent around him is all I'm saying. He's really stinking it up so far this year.

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

Raptors had nobody close to Klay Thompson, let alone Durant. People overlook having Klay on your team is like having peak Ray Allen.

Kawhi right now doesn't have elite offensive talent on his team this season. What's he doing? Leading them to #1 ranked offense and putting up peak LeBron numbers despite playing just 28MPG.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

He's not an elite offensive anchor if he can only anchor teams with elite talent around him is all I'm saying. He's really stinking it up so far this year.

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

when has Kawhi ever not had elite talent around him in the NBA?

2016/17 was Lamarcus and a bunch of washed bums. Is that elite? I wouldn't say so.

2019 playoffs: ECF Siakam wet the bed, 2nd round Lowry wet the bed. Kawhi had to do a heavy offensive carry job vs the top teams in the east.

2020 - pat Patterson? People were laughing in the thread when clippers signed him. Shamet? He's a 7th or 8th man off bench, Beverly? He's the opposite of elite, plays like somebody you see at a pick up basketball game, zubac has proven nothing. The starting lineup for clippers without George is actually below average offensively and kawhi is still at 8APG with nearly a 34 PER

[Colbinii]

He's not an elite offensive anchor if he can only anchor teams with elite talent around him is all I'm saying. He's really stinking it up so far this year.

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

Raptors had nobody close to Klay Thompson, let alone Durant. People overlook having Klay on your team is like having peak Ray Allen.

Kawhi right now doesn't have elite offensive talent on his team this season. What's he doing? Leading them to #1 ranked offense and putting up peak LeBron numbers despite playing just 28MPG.

Your inability to assess teams beyond "Is there a superstar here or not" is baffling to me. Great teams have depth and multiple good to great players.

As for the whole "Raptors had nobody close to Klay Thompson" argument; Kyle Lowry, Danny Green and Pascal Siakam.

I will list the following statistics of the 4 and Bold Klay Thompson. I will be using statistics that YOU use in other threads to PROP UP Kawhi Leonard.

OBPM: 2.5, 2.0, 1.7, 1.2
OWS: 5.7, 3.6, 3.0, 2.9
TS%: 63.2, 62.8, 57.1, 56.2
VORP (Keep in mind this is a cumulative statistic and Klay Thompson has THE MOST minutes): 3.5, 2.8, 2.7, 0.8

You are obviously trolling. You post these same statistics to prop up Kawhi Leonard and yet when they all say that Toronto had one of the greatest supporting casts ever you switch your criteria to "names".

[clyde21]

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

when has Kawhi ever not had elite talent around him in the NBA?

2016/17 was Lamarcus and a bunch of washed bums. Is that elite? I wouldn't say so.

2019 playoffs: ECF Siakam wet the bed, 2nd round Lowry wet the bed. Kawhi had to do a heavy offensive carry job vs the top teams in the east.

2020 - pat Patterson? People were laughing in the thread when clippers signed him. Shamet? He's a 7th or 8th man off bench, Beverly? He's the opposite of elite, plays like somebody you see at a pick up basketball game, zubac has proven nothing. The starting lineup for clippers without George is actually below average offensively and kawhi is still at 8APG with nearly a 34 PER

16/17 - naw, not elite, but still tiers and levels ahead of this GSW team, it's not even close...which goes to show you just how bad this team is. by the same token, Steph carried teams in '13, '14 and '15 who didn't have elite offensive talent either...so not sure what you're point here is other than throwing a temper tantrum

2019 - you mean that same Raptors team that still had a 110 ortg with Kawhi off the court and went 17-5 without him? i wonder if this GSW team can go 17-5 without Steph

2020 - 3 game sample size, 1 against GSW, possibly the worst defensive team in the entire league, another a whopping loss to the Suns...and you're really trying to bring down Kawhi's cast again? he has 4 double digit scorers behind him including TWO 20+ scorers so far in Lou and Harrell...you know who the Warriors' 2nd leading scorer so far? DLo with a whopping 13ppg on 35% from the field.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

Raptors had nobody close to Klay Thompson, let alone Durant. People overlook having Klay on your team is like having peak Ray Allen.

Kawhi right now doesn't have elite offensive talent on his team this season. What's he doing? Leading them to #1 ranked offense and putting up peak LeBron numbers despite playing just 28MPG.

Your inability to assess teams beyond "Is there a superstar here or not" is baffling to me. Great teams have depth and multiple good to great players.

As for the whole "Raptors had nobody close to Klay Thompson" argument; Kyle Lowry, Danny Green and Pascal Siakam.

I will list the following statistics of the 4 and Bold Klay Thompson. I will be using statistics that YOU use in other threads to PROP UP Kawhi Leonard.

OBPM: 2.5, 2.0, 1.7, 1.2
OWS: 5.7, 3.6, 3.0, 2.9
TS%: 63.2, 62.8, 57.1, 56.2
VORP (Keep in mind this is a cumulative statistic and Klay Thompson has THE MOST minutes): 3.5, 2.8, 2.7, 0.8

You are obviously trolling. You post these same statistics to prop up Kawhi Leonard and yet when they all say that Toronto had one of the greatest supporting casts ever you switch your criteria to "names".

Curry has arguably the most dangerous 2/3 offensive punch of all time in Klay and Draymond. Klay for his shooting and scoring than Draymond with his ball handling and playmaking. Curry has been spoiled his whole career with those two guys because Klay and Draymond play off each other. Besides, curry had an easy path in 15 than choked in 16 so I don't see your point comparing them.

I'm talking strictly offense, you take Klay over Lowry or Siakam. Klay provides much better spacing, consistency and ability to take over games with scoring. Lowry was too inconsistent but he comes close to Klay but not quite because at the end of the day Lowry is closer to Draymond offensively than he is Klay. Siakam was like 2014 Kawhi level where he just wasn't developed enough yet. Defense Lowry and Siakam are better over Klay I agree but Kawhi has a huge gap on defense over Curry as well so it cancels out.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

when has Kawhi ever not had elite talent around him in the NBA?

2016/17 was Lamarcus and a bunch of washed bums. Is that elite? I wouldn't say so.

2019 playoffs: ECF Siakam wet the bed, 2nd round Lowry wet the bed. Kawhi had to do a heavy offensive carry job vs the top teams in the east.

2020 - pat Patterson? People were laughing in the thread when clippers signed him. Shamet? He's a 7th or 8th man off bench, Beverly? He's the opposite of elite, plays like somebody you see at a pick up basketball game, zubac has proven nothing. The starting lineup for clippers without George is actually below average offensively and kawhi is still at 8APG with nearly a 34 PER

16/17 - naw, not elite, but still tiers and levels ahead of this GSW team, it's not even close...which goes to show you just how bad this team is. by the same token, Steph carried teams in '13, '14 and '15 who didn't have elite offensive talent either...so not sure what you're point here is other than throwing a temper tantrum

2019 - you mean that same Raptors team that still had a 110 ortg with Kawhi off the court and went 17-5 without him? i wonder if this GSW team can go 17-5 without Steph

2020 - 3 game sample size, 1 against GSW, possibly the worst defensive team in the entire league, another a whopping loss to the Suns...and you're really trying to bring down Kawhi's cast again? he has 4 double digit scorers behind him including TWO 20+ scorers so far in Lou and Harrell...you know who the Warriors' 2nd leading scorer so far? DLo with a whopping 13ppg on 35% from the field.

If you think raptors were so good without Kawhi, why don't ya post the teams they beat without him? Than we all can laugh at that, just like I'm laughing at warriors without Klay right now. You're always underwhelming klays impact for a GS fan, so I guess you learned your lesson this season. Draymond is worthless without Klay.

[thebigbird]

He's not an elite offensive anchor if he can only anchor teams with elite talent around him is all I'm saying. He's really stinking it up so far this year.

Just like Kawhi Leonard?

He has had elite offensive talent around him in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020.

Raptors had nobody close to Klay Thompson, let alone Durant. People overlook having Klay on your team is like having peak Ray Allen.

Kawhi right now doesn't have elite offensive talent on his team this season. What's he doing? Leading them to #1 ranked offense and putting up peak LeBron numbers despite playing just 28MPG.

If having Klay is like having peak Ray Allen then losing him in the finals is pretty major, eh?

[Colbinii]

I'm talking strictly offense, you take Klay over Lowry or Siakam.

What do you think OBPM, TS% and OWS measure?

They measures different aspects of offense.

Klay provides much better spacing, consistency and ability to take over games with scoring.

But this isn't the case. We already see that all of the Raptors players were more efficient from the field.

From 16-19 Lowry averaged over 7 3PA/G on 38.8%.
Klay, over than same span is over 7 3PA/G on 42.0%.

These two are much closer than you make them seem as shooters.

You also mention consistency. What is your basis for Klay being more consistent than Lowry?

Last season Klay had 8 games where he made zero 3's and 13 games where he made one 3.
Last season Lowry had 5 games where he made zero 3's and 17 games where he made one 3.

Those numbers look similar.

Last season Thompson had 27 games with a sub-10 Win Score.
Last season Lowry had 18 games with a sub-10 Win Score.

What about playmaking?
Lowry is a much better playmaker than Klay Thompson is with the ball. Klay doesn't turn the ball over often but he isn't great at setting up his teammates. The gap in this regard is far greater than the gap in spacing these players provide.

Lowry was too inconsistent

And I am 8 feet tall.

but he comes close to Klay but not quite because at the end of the day Lowry is closer to Draymond offensively than he is Klay.

Literally EVERY. SINGLE. STATISTIC. says this is wrong. Watching the games tell me that Lowry is far more active offensively than Klay Thompson. What are you basing this off of?

Oh, I know, Klay Thompson didn't play with Kawhi yet.

Siakam was like 2014 Kawhi level where he just wasn't developed enough yet. Defense Lowry and Siakam are better over Klay I agree but Kawhi has a huge gap on defense over Curry as well so it cancels out.

Who cares if he wasn't developed enough if he was still a fantastic offensive player?

Klay Thompson still hasn't developed how to be a pick and roll ball handler or how to run an offense yet you don't slight him for that.