Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

“It’s difficult. It’s difficult,” Fizdale said of the ongoing search at point guard, before indicating he was still not close to knowing what he wants to do moving forward. “We’ll watch the film. We got a game [Saturday], so you’ll know soon enough.”

The Knicks (0-2) lacked ball movement throughout the night and had 17 assists to 26 turnovers. They went the final 3:41 without a point while turning the ball over three times, falling apart while Nets point guard Kyrie Irving took over.

Maybe the Knicks would be interested in a competent veteran PG who takes care of the ball. We've got just the guy in Ish Smith. If they're writing off Frank Ntilikina, would they trade him to us straight up for Ish? A veteran PG would take pressure off of Barrett and help develop Barrett, Knox and Robinson.

From our perspective, at least Ntilikina can defend. His lack of PG skills would be mitigated by playing him alongside Beal, who can initiate the offense. Their contracts are pretty similar. Both have one more year at roughly $6M.

[gambitx777]

Frank's at about 5 mill and he has two years left if you include the team option on his rookie deal, so this year and next. I think it will come down too what our record is in December when we can trade ish. If we are some where around 500 after 20 games then I say do it . Because at that point you arnt in the loto hunt and getting a look at another young pg on the cheep is worth it but we we loose say 15 of the next 18 game, just stay the course because you are in the hunt for a top 5 pick in a PG heavy draft and you still have wall under contract. Now if the Miami heat loose their minds and trade for wall before he gets back. then sure you make this call no matter what. I don't hate the idea either way, just my two cents .

Read on Twitter

“It’s difficult. It’s difficult,” Fizdale said of the ongoing search at point guard, before indicating he was still not close to knowing what he wants to do moving forward. “We’ll watch the film. We got a game [Saturday], so you’ll know soon enough.”

The Knicks (0-2) lacked ball movement throughout the night and had 17 assists to 26 turnovers. They went the final 3:41 without a point while turning the ball over three times, falling apart while Nets point guard Kyrie Irving took over.

Maybe the Knicks would be interested in a competent veteran PG who takes care of the ball. We've got just the guy in Ish Smith. If they're writing off Frank Ntilikina, would they trade him to us straight up for Ish? A veteran PG would take pressure off of Barrett and help develop Barrett, Knox and Robinson.

From our perspective, at least Ntilikina can defend. His lack of PG skills would be mitigated by playing him alongside Beal, who can initiate the offense. Their contracts are pretty similar. Both have one more year at roughly $6M.

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[mhd]

When Troy Brown comes back, Bonga still needs to get PT. I really like him considering his size and athleticism.

[gambitx777]

I'm excited for the trade dead line we have a lot of one year deals we can flip into picks I think. Miles and Ian are two good trade chips because of the numbers and buttons if we don't want to bother resigning him should be traded at the dead line to a team in need of a shooter.

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[nate33]

I'm excited for the trade dead line we have a lot of one year deals we can flip into picks I think. Miles and Ian are two good trade chips because of the numbers and buttons if we don't want to bother resigning him should be traded at the dead line to a team in need of a shooter.

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Miles and IT should absolutely be shopped at the Trade Deadline. Bertans should also be traded if we ultimately conclude that we are unwilling to resign him to a market value contract next summer. A better move would be to extend him (if we indeed want to retain him) but, unfortunately, he isn't eligible for an extension since he is on a 2-year contract.

I don't think Ian has any value, not unless we are willing to take back a longer contract of an overpaid player. And even under those circumstances, I don't think there will be many teams that desperate to generate cap room in 2020 since there are no good free agents.

[gambitx777]

I'm excited for the trade dead line we have a lot of one year deals we can flip into picks I think. Miles and Ian are two good trade chips because of the numbers and buttons if we don't want to bother resigning him should be traded at the dead line to a team in need of a shooter.

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Miles and IT should absolutely be shopped at the Trade Deadline. Bertans should also be traded if we ultimately conclude that we are unwilling to resign him to a market value contract next summer. A better move would be to extend him (if we indeed want to retain him) but, unfortunately, he isn't eligible for an extension since he is on a 2-year contract.

I don't think Ian has any value, not unless we are willing to take back a longer contract of an overpaid player. And even under those circumstances, I don't think there will be many teams that desperate to generate cap room in 2020 since there are no good free agents.

I agree with you but let's say Boston keeps struggling and they decide they really need to get Gordon gone. What do they need bench depth and cap flexibility. So Ian miles and ish get us to 30 mill Gordon's at 32 we are 4 mill under the tax. I do that all day long. If they want him gone and can't find a taker to take him with out payment. We have the short term useful ish bench players to get the job done. Something like that would peak my interest but yeah trading IT to a contender. Like the Lakers or another team in deep need of PG depth like the 76ers. For a pick or something would definitely be a good move and yeah. Bertans is only 27 he fits the young team enough to keep him another 3 years but we need to make that call now because if not, he's going to have trade value at the deadline and as cap strapped as we are, we can't miss out on any chance to improve, so just don't not trade him and let him walk.

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[eminence]

What would be the cost to acquire Bertans? Exum would probably be Utah's matching salary.

[nate33]

What would be the cost to acquire Bertans? Exum would probably be Utah's matching salary.

I'd say a late 1st round pick. Or two picks in the 31-40 range.

If all a team offers is a mere late 2nd round pick, I'd rather just keep Bertans and take my chances on resigning him with RFA rights.

I really think Bertans is the type of role player that could be the difference between an contender and an actual champion.

[nate33]

I'm excited for the trade dead line we have a lot of one year deals we can flip into picks I think. Miles and Ian are two good trade chips because of the numbers and buttons if we don't want to bother resigning him should be traded at the dead line to a team in need of a shooter.

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Miles and IT should absolutely be shopped at the Trade Deadline. Bertans should also be traded if we ultimately conclude that we are unwilling to resign him to a market value contract next summer. A better move would be to extend him (if we indeed want to retain him) but, unfortunately, he isn't eligible for an extension since he is on a 2-year contract.

I don't think Ian has any value, not unless we are willing to take back a longer contract of an overpaid player. And even under those circumstances, I don't think there will be many teams that desperate to generate cap room in 2020 since there are no good free agents.

I agree with you but let's say Boston keeps struggling and they decide they really need to get Gordon gone. What do they need bench depth and cap flexibility. So Ian miles and ish get us to 30 mill Gordon's at 32 we are 4 mill under the tax. I do that all day long. If they want him gone and can't find a taker to take him with out payment. We have the short term useful ish bench players to get the job done. Something like that would peak my interest but yeah trading IT to a contender. Like the Lakers or another team in deep need of PG depth like the 76ers. For a pick or something would definitely be a good move and yeah. Bertans is only 27 he fits the young team enough to keep him another 3 years but we need to make that call now because if not, he's going to have trade value at the deadline and as cap strapped as we are, we can't miss out on any chance to improve, so just don't not trade him and let him walk.

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If that makes sense from our perspective (i.e. Hayward helps us more than Ish plus cap flexibility in 2020), then it doesn't make sense from Boston's perspective. Wouldn't they also prefer to have Hayward instead of Ish and cap flexibility? Particularly when that cap flexibility only gets than an MLE free agent in an offseason where free agents aren't very good.

[pcbothwel]

What would be the cost to acquire Bertans? Exum would probably be Utah's matching salary.

I'd say a late 1st round pick. Or two picks in the 31-40 range.

If all a team offers is a mere late 2nd round pick, I'd rather just keep Bertans and take my chances on resigning him with RFA rights.

I really think Bertans is the type of role player that could be the difference between an contender and an actual champion.

Couldnt agree more. On a team with Wall, Brown, and Rui as key players... we need elite shooters to compliment them as its conceivable that some or all of them go cold for stretches and need shooting. Bertans is the PERFECT compliment to them.

TBH... I think I dont trade Bertans, even for the the 2 2nds (Obviously a top 20 pick though). I have a lot of faith in the this team and another top 10 pick can be a real wild card.

Trade IT at the deadline for a top 40 pick and Go for a nice three year run of:

Wall
Beal
Brown
Rui
Bryant

Bench: 2020 pick, Bertans, MLE, young guys (whoever stays afloat of Wagner, Bonga, Robinson, Admiral)

I'll take that squad

[eminence]

What would be the cost to acquire Bertans? Exum would probably be Utah's matching salary.

I'd say a late 1st round pick. Or two picks in the 31-40 range.

If all a team offers is a mere late 2nd round pick, I'd rather just keep Bertans and take my chances on resigning him with RFA rights.

I really think Bertans is the type of role player that could be the difference between an contender and an actual champion.

Couldnt agree more. On a team with Wall, Brown, and Rui as key players... we need elite shooters to compliment them as its conceivable that some or all of them go cold for stretches and need shooting. Bertans is the PERFECT compliment to them.

TBH... I think I dont trade Bertans, even for the the 2 2nds (Obviously a top 20 pick though). I have a lot of faith in the this team and another top 10 pick can be a real wild card.

Trade IT at the deadline for a top 40 pick and Go for a nice three year run of:

Wall
Beal
Brown
Rui
Bryant

Bench: 2020 pick, Bertans, MLE, young guys (whoever stays afloat of Wagner, Bonga, Robinson, Admiral)

I'll take that squad

Seems like he's pretty well liked in Washington! I'm not sure what the rules are about us trading a 1st round pick currently (we have an outstanding one to Memphis that's protected both ways for a couple of seasons), but personally I don't think I'd mind moving a decently protected 1st for him (alternatively we have a couple of 2nds in the '22 and '23 drafts).

Conley/Mitchell/Bogdanovic/Bertans/Gobert just sounds so nice to me

[nate33]

TBH... I think I dont trade Bertans, even for the the 2 2nds (Obviously a top 20 pick though).

What if Bertans costs $18M a year to retain?

[payitforward]

What would be the cost to acquire Bertans? Exum would probably be Utah's matching salary.

I'd say a late 1st round pick. Or two picks in the 31-40 range....

?? We just acquired him for a traded player exception, & now he's worth a R1 pick?

Well... he is posting a TS% of almost 80%, it's true! & if anyone thought that he (or any other player) could maintain that, then you bet.

I would take a high R2 pick for Bertans with no hesitation. Above all, because he is expiring. We don't know that we'll be able to keep him. OTOH, I would not take Dante Exum for him -- why would I want Exum?

But, surely Bertans isn't going to be traded right now.

[payitforward]

...I really think Bertans is the type of role player that could be the difference between an contender and an actual champion.

Couldnt agree more. On a team with Wall, Brown, and Rui as key players... we need elite shooters to compliment them as its conceivable that some or all of them go cold for stretches and need shooting. Bertans is the PERFECT compliment to them.

TBH... I think I dont trade Bertans, even for the the 2 2nds (Obviously a top 20 pick though). I have a lot of faith in the this team and another top 10 pick can be a real wild card.

Trade IT at the deadline for a top 40 pick and Go for a nice three year run of:

Wall
Beal
Brown
Rui
Bryant

Bench: 2020 pick, Bertans, MLE, young guys (whoever stays afloat of Wagner, Bonga, Robinson, Admiral)

I'll take that squad

Wow.... I guess we must really have picked SA's pocket, huh? Acquiring for nothing whatsoever a guy whose actual worth is greater than 2 high R2 picks?

I assume this "run" is based on a) Rui Hachimura is a proven outstanding NBA starter, b) John Wall will soon be back & as good as ever, maybe better, c) Bertans proved in his first 3 seasons that he is a guy who can push his team to excellence (pay no attention to his having been given away for nothing), 4) we can sign Bertans & still have room to sign a MLE, & heaven only knows what counts as #s 5, 6, 7, etc. on this list of fond dreams.

Davis Bertans is a journeyman; he's good at one thing & one thing only, ok at a few others, & bad at some others as well. If he'd been what you think he is after 100 minutes this season, he'd be a Spur today. If, against all likelihood, he turns into all that, he'll be signed by someone for more than we can possibly afford for him.

Davis is a Wizard this year. That's it. I like him -- I've liked him for 8.5 years, since the run up to the '11 draft.

He's useful too. & the better he plays the more useful he is: not because of what he does for our record directly but because the better he is the more we get for him.

Above all, a team being based on Wall, Beal, Brown, Rui & Bryant is not automatically some kind of contender. Was a team based on Wall, Beal, Porter (when he was healthy & terrific) & Gortat any kind of contender?

[eminence]

What would be the cost to acquire Bertans? Exum would probably be Utah's matching salary.

I'd say a late 1st round pick. Or two picks in the 31-40 range....

?? We just acquired him for a traded player exception, & now he's worth a R1 pick?

Well... he is posting a TS% of almost 80%, it's true! & if anyone thought that he (or any other player) could maintain that, then you bet.

I would take a high R2 pick for Bertans with no hesitation. Above all, because he is expiring. We don't know that we'll be able to keep him. OTOH, I would not take Dante Exum for him -- why would I want Exum?

But, surely Bertans isn't going to be traded right now.

Exum just because he's Utah's most clearly matching salary. The pick/picks would be the value.

[payitforward]

Oh duh... thanks!

[nate33]

What would be the cost to acquire Bertans? Exum would probably be Utah's matching salary.

I'd say a late 1st round pick. Or two picks in the 31-40 range....

?? We just acquired him for a traded player exception, & now he's worth a R1 pick?

Well... he is posting a TS% of almost 80%, it's true! & if anyone thought that he (or any other player) could maintain that, then you bet.

I would take a high R2 pick for Bertans with no hesitation. Above all, because he is expiring. We don't know that we'll be able to keep him. OTOH, I would not take Dante Exum for him -- why would I want Exum?

But, surely Bertans isn't going to be traded right now.

We got him on a fluke. He was absolutely worth more than a TPE, it's just that nobody else had a TPE available large enough for him when San Antonio wanted to create cap room for Marcus Morris.

Milwaukee acquired Mirotic last Trade Deadline for four 2nd round picks. I think Bertans will be comparable this year. He's not the rebounder that Mirotic is, but he's an even better floor spacer and a more versatile defender.

[payitforward]

Fair enough. Certainly, he looks to have been a bargain! Kudos to Tommy.

One more way to argue for trading Bertans is to suggest that the uncertainty attached to how Bertans turns out this season plus the uncertainty whether we are able to retain him are greater than the uncertainty of what we'd get out of, say 2 high R2 picks, thus increasing the attraction of the trade.

Anyway, per the above... I don't think he's likely to be traded any time soon!

[gambitx777]

Miles and IT should absolutely be shopped at the Trade Deadline. Bertans should also be traded if we ultimately conclude that we are unwilling to resign him to a market value contract next summer. A better move would be to extend him (if we indeed want to retain him) but, unfortunately, he isn't eligible for an extension since he is on a 2-year contract.

I don't think Ian has any value, not unless we are willing to take back a longer contract of an overpaid player. And even under those circumstances, I don't think there will be many teams that desperate to generate cap room in 2020 since there are no good free agents.

I agree with you but let's say Boston keeps struggling and they decide they really need to get Gordon gone. What do they need bench depth and cap flexibility. So Ian miles and ish get us to 30 mill Gordon's at 32 we are 4 mill under the tax. I do that all day long. If they want him gone and can't find a taker to take him with out payment. We have the short term useful ish bench players to get the job done. Something like that would peak my interest but yeah trading IT to a contender. Like the Lakers or another team in deep need of PG depth like the 76ers. For a pick or something would definitely be a good move and yeah. Bertans is only 27 he fits the young team enough to keep him another 3 years but we need to make that call now because if not, he's going to have trade value at the deadline and as cap strapped as we are, we can't miss out on any chance to improve, so just don't not trade him and let him walk.

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If that makes sense from our perspective (i.e. Hayward helps us more than Ish plus cap flexibility in 2020), then it doesn't make sense from Boston's perspective. Wouldn't they also prefer to have Hayward instead of Ish and cap flexibility? Particularly when that cap flexibility only gets than an MLE free agent in an offseason where free agents aren't very good.

Well it makes sense for us because we won't have cap flexibility any way. So getting rid of some guys to improve the team makes sense if it takes advantage of another teams situation. Kind of like what the blazers did with whiteside. If Boston is having issues and the locker room turns on him or he's not playing great or the determine they are better off without him. And they can't find another team to pay them something for him. Dumping him on us for free and getting a couple of vet back ups and a good chunk of cap relief out of it does make some sense for them. But that's a very specific situation but those situations do happen.


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[nate33]

Fair enough. Certainly, he looks to have been a bargain! Kudos to Tommy.

One more way to argue for trading Bertans is to suggest that the uncertainty attached to how Bertans turns out this season plus the uncertainty whether we are able to retain him are greater than the uncertainty of what we'd get out of, say 2 high R2 picks, thus increasing the attraction of the trade.

Anyway, per the above... I don't think he's likely to be traded any time soon!

I hear you on the uncertainty.

If I had the certainty of knowing I could extend him for, say, $11M a year, I'd happily do that and be done with it. I think Bertans locked into a 3 year $33M deal is better than what we are likely to get for him in any trade (whether that's a late 1st or a couple of 2nds).

But the possibility exists that someone will come along and offer outlandish money for him, and we let him go for nothing. With that in mind, one could just as easily say that it's better to trade him for one measly 2nd rounder than get nothing at all.

As I said before, I don't think a single 2nd round pick is enough to convince me to give up on the possibility of resigning Bertans to a team friendly deal. I do like Bertans and would like to keep him at a reasonable price. But if we got two 2nds or a late 1st, I'd probably pull the trigger because of the risk that we can't afford to keep Bertans in a frothy free agency market.