Game 4: Utah Jazz @ Phoenix Suns, Monday, Oct 28th, 7 PM MST

[MathiasPW]

Hard to blame foul discrepancies on the refs with Phoenix dictating this style of play.

Suns aren’t giving up many transition opportunities. They’re covering the 3P line fairly aggressively (4th fewest in opponent 3PA per 100). Opponent assist / tov is nearly down to 1.0. Suns rely upon max effort/help defensively and doing it without a shot blocker which, all things equal, is the proper trade off given Suns’ centers are adding greater offensive value than the value of a decent defensive shot blocking center.

These are by choice, good choices IMO. But because there ain’t any free lunches they’ve gotta surrender something. And thats surrendering paint attacks they may result in turnovers, a miss, or a high number of FTA.

And sure the surrendered FTA are bothersome but it’s a little unfair to focus solely on opponent FTA without accounting for the lower opponent 3PA and Live Ball turnovers, for example (and other factors).

Please stay in this forum forever. I love you.

[lilfishi22]

Hard to blame foul discrepancies on the refs with Phoenix dictating this style of play.

Suns aren’t giving up many transition opportunities. They’re covering the 3P line fairly aggressively (4th fewest in opponent 3PA per 100). Opponent assist / tov is nearly down to 1.0. Suns rely upon max effort/help defensively and doing it without a shot blocker which, all things equal, is the proper trade off given Suns’ centers are adding greater offensive value than the value of a decent defensive shot blocking center.

These are by choice, good choices IMO. But because there ain’t any free lunches they’ve gotta surrender something. And thats surrendering paint attacks they may result in turnovers, a miss, or a high number of FTA.

And sure the surrendered FTA are bothersome but it’s a little unfair to focus solely on opponent FTA without accounting for the lower opponent 3PA and Live Ball turnovers, for example (and other factors).

Great point

I think the uproar regarding refs is more from those who watch the entire game and see bad calls pile up but I do think you have a point regarding our style of play (which is evidenced by opponent 3P%) almost inviting more attempts (and more potential for fouls) at the rim. And bad calls aside, it's really only against the Jazz where the FT differential was truly eye opening.

But the straw that broke the camels back for most is that last second blunder in which refs didn't follow protocol of checking and rewinding the clock back to 1.4-1.8s that would've significantly changed our last play which ended up being a Kaminsky rebound and Hail Mary baseball pitch with 0.4s left on the clock. Had we had the proper time left, we would've had the opportunity to grab the rebound and the refs would've known we would call for a timeout. With an after time out play, we would've inbounded from the other side of the court and we may have had a chance to win. This is clearly one game (out of the 4) where the game was decided by the refs.

In the Denver game, the FT differential between the team was a lot closer and the refs weren't a factor in deciding a win or loss. To win or lose on a shot attempt by the Suns franchise player is something Suns fan can live with.

[spanishninja]

Hard to blame foul discrepancies on the refs with Phoenix dictating this style of play.

Suns aren’t giving up many transition opportunities. They’re covering the 3P line fairly aggressively (4th fewest in opponent 3PA per 100). Opponent assist / tov is nearly down to 1.0. Suns rely upon max effort/help defensively and doing it without a shot blocker which, all things equal, is the proper trade off given Suns’ centers are adding greater offensive value than the value of a decent defensive shot blocking center.

These are by choice, good choices IMO. But because there ain’t any free lunches they’ve gotta surrender something. And thats surrendering paint attacks they may result in turnovers, a miss, or a high number of FTA.

And sure the surrendered FTA are bothersome but it’s a little unfair to focus solely on opponent FTA without accounting for the lower opponent 3PA and Live Ball turnovers, for example (and other factors).

Great point

I think the uproar regarding refs is more from those who watch the entire game and see bad calls pile up but I do think you have a point regarding our style of play (which is evidenced by opponent 3P%) almost inviting more attempts (and more potential for fouls) at the rim. And bad calls aside, it's really only against the Jazz where the FT differential was truly eye opening.

But the straw that broke the camels back for most is that last second blunder in which refs didn't follow protocol of checking and rewinding the clock back to 1.4-1.8s that would've significantly changed our last play which ended up being a Kaminsky rebound and Hail Mary baseball pitch with 0.4s left on the clock. Had we had the proper time left, we would've had the opportunity to grab the rebound and the refs would've known we would call for a timeout. With an after time out play, we would've inbounded from the other side of the court and we may have had a chance to win. This is clearly one game (out of the 4) where the game was decided by the refs.

In the Denver game, the FT differential between the team was a lot closer and the refs weren't a factor in deciding a win or loss. To win or lose on a shot attempt by the Suns franchise player is something Suns fan can live with.

sorry if posted already, but there is now an official explanation of why they didn't review the time. apparently (and it totally sounds like something they just made up on the spot), the only way the clock gets reviewed here is if the clock ran all the way down to 0.0. like, what?

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/suns-jazz-clock-nba-rules-review-l2m-refs-officials

[lilfishi22]

Hard to blame foul discrepancies on the refs with Phoenix dictating this style of play.

Suns aren’t giving up many transition opportunities. They’re covering the 3P line fairly aggressively (4th fewest in opponent 3PA per 100). Opponent assist / tov is nearly down to 1.0. Suns rely upon max effort/help defensively and doing it without a shot blocker which, all things equal, is the proper trade off given Suns’ centers are adding greater offensive value than the value of a decent defensive shot blocking center.

These are by choice, good choices IMO. But because there ain’t any free lunches they’ve gotta surrender something. And thats surrendering paint attacks they may result in turnovers, a miss, or a high number of FTA.

And sure the surrendered FTA are bothersome but it’s a little unfair to focus solely on opponent FTA without accounting for the lower opponent 3PA and Live Ball turnovers, for example (and other factors).

Great point

I think the uproar regarding refs is more from those who watch the entire game and see bad calls pile up but I do think you have a point regarding our style of play (which is evidenced by opponent 3P%) almost inviting more attempts (and more potential for fouls) at the rim. And bad calls aside, it's really only against the Jazz where the FT differential was truly eye opening.

But the straw that broke the camels back for most is that last second blunder in which refs didn't follow protocol of checking and rewinding the clock back to 1.4-1.8s that would've significantly changed our last play which ended up being a Kaminsky rebound and Hail Mary baseball pitch with 0.4s left on the clock. Had we had the proper time left, we would've had the opportunity to grab the rebound and the refs would've known we would call for a timeout. With an after time out play, we would've inbounded from the other side of the court and we may have had a chance to win. This is clearly one game (out of the 4) where the game was decided by the refs.

In the Denver game, the FT differential between the team was a lot closer and the refs weren't a factor in deciding a win or loss. To win or lose on a shot attempt by the Suns franchise player is something Suns fan can live with.

sorry if posted already, but there is now an official explanation of why they didn't review the time. apparently (and it totally sounds like something they just made up on the spot), the only way the clock gets reviewed here is if the clock ran all the way down to 0.0. like, what?

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/suns-jazz-clock-nba-rules-review-l2m-refs-officials

I didn't see this and it was something I was expecting to see (an official explanation).

I think it's 'nonsensical'. We see refs review and fix shot clocks regularly whenever they think there is a malfunction.

[Mystical Apples]

Hard to blame foul discrepancies on the refs with Phoenix dictating this style of play.

Suns aren’t giving up many transition opportunities. They’re covering the 3P line fairly aggressively (4th fewest in opponent 3PA per 100). Opponent assist / tov is nearly down to 1.0. Suns rely upon max effort/help defensively and doing it without a shot blocker which, all things equal, is the proper trade off given Suns’ centers are adding greater offensive value than the value of a decent defensive shot blocking center.

These are by choice, good choices IMO. But because there ain’t any free lunches they’ve gotta surrender something. And thats surrendering paint attacks they may result in turnovers, a miss, or a high number of FTA.

And sure the surrendered FTA are bothersome but it’s a little unfair to focus solely on opponent FTA without accounting for the lower opponent 3PA and Live Ball turnovers, for example (and other factors).

Great point

I think the uproar regarding refs is more from those who watch the entire game and see bad calls pile up but I do think you have a point regarding our style of play (which is evidenced by opponent 3P%) almost inviting more attempts (and more potential for fouls) at the rim. And bad calls aside, it's really only against the Jazz where the FT differential was truly eye opening.

But the straw that broke the camels back for most is that last second blunder in which refs didn't follow protocol of checking and rewinding the clock back to 1.4-1.8s that would've significantly changed our last play which ended up being a Kaminsky rebound and Hail Mary baseball pitch with 0.4s left on the clock. Had we had the proper time left, we would've had the opportunity to grab the rebound and the refs would've known we would call for a timeout. With an after time out play, we would've inbounded from the other side of the court and we may have had a chance to win. This is clearly one game (out of the 4) where the game was decided by the refs.

In the Denver game, the FT differential between the team was a lot closer and the refs weren't a factor in deciding a win or loss. To win or lose on a shot attempt by the Suns franchise player is something Suns fan can live with.

sorry if posted already, but there is now an official explanation of why they didn't review the time. apparently (and it totally sounds like something they just made up on the spot), the only way the clock gets reviewed here is if the clock ran all the way down to 0.0. like, what?

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/suns-jazz-clock-nba-rules-review-l2m-refs-officials

This doesn’t quite wash logically. Applied per the explanation gives home teams a very distinct, unfair advantage (well usually). In fact the explanation itself is a de facto advertisement to 30 shot clock operators that fudging a little can happen with impunity.

[suns12345]

Great point

I think the uproar regarding refs is more from those who watch the entire game and see bad calls pile up but I do think you have a point regarding our style of play (which is evidenced by opponent 3P%) almost inviting more attempts (and more potential for fouls) at the rim. And bad calls aside, it's really only against the Jazz where the FT differential was truly eye opening.

But the straw that broke the camels back for most is that last second blunder in which refs didn't follow protocol of checking and rewinding the clock back to 1.4-1.8s that would've significantly changed our last play which ended up being a Kaminsky rebound and Hail Mary baseball pitch with 0.4s left on the clock. Had we had the proper time left, we would've had the opportunity to grab the rebound and the refs would've known we would call for a timeout. With an after time out play, we would've inbounded from the other side of the court and we may have had a chance to win. This is clearly one game (out of the 4) where the game was decided by the refs.

In the Denver game, the FT differential between the team was a lot closer and the refs weren't a factor in deciding a win or loss. To win or lose on a shot attempt by the Suns franchise player is something Suns fan can live with.

sorry if posted already, but there is now an official explanation of why they didn't review the time. apparently (and it totally sounds like something they just made up on the spot), the only way the clock gets reviewed here is if the clock ran all the way down to 0.0. like, what?

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/suns-jazz-clock-nba-rules-review-l2m-refs-officials

I didn't see this and it was something I was expecting to see (an official explanation).

I think it's 'nonsensical'. We see refs review and fix shot clocks regularly whenever they think there is a malfunction.

Lmao, that is such rubbish. They review what the clock should be alllllll the time.

I haven't weighed in on the anti-ref sentiment because I refuse to complain about refereeing normally (like others have said). Fans of a team will always think they get bad calls. That said, this clock mix up was objectively wrong, and the impact it had on the suns chances to win the game are clear cut. Inexcusable and I hope the Suns are seeking a response from the NBA.

PS. can the NBA please stop this nonsense ticky tack foul directive the refs have clearly been given. It makes the games sooooo boring. This is supposed to be the best NBA season in years with the parity of teams but instead its a FT contest.

[grumpysaddle]

sorry if posted already, but there is now an official explanation of why they didn't review the time. apparently (and it totally sounds like something they just made up on the spot), the only way the clock gets reviewed here is if the clock ran all the way down to 0.0. like, what?

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/suns-jazz-clock-nba-rules-review-l2m-refs-officials

I didn't see this and it was something I was expecting to see (an official explanation).

I think it's 'nonsensical'. We see refs review and fix shot clocks regularly whenever they think there is a malfunction.

Lmao, that is such rubbish. They review what the clock should be alllllll the time.

I haven't weighed in on the anti-ref sentiment because I refuse to complain about refereeing normally (like others have said). Fans of a team will always think they get bad calls. That said, this clock mix up was objectively wrong, and the impact it had on the suns chances to win the game are clear cut. Inexcusable and I hope the Suns are seeking a response from the NBA.

PS. can the NBA please stop this nonsense ticky tack foul directive the refs have clearly been given. It makes the games sooooo boring. This is supposed to be the best NBA season in years with the parity of teams but instead its a FT contest.

Yeah that excuse for not reviewing has more holes than Swiss cheese