Blue Jays vs Angels

[RingItUp!]

Thats a load of crap excuse if I ever heard one: I'm not hitting .300 because I am batting 8th not 2nd. Please. Just hit the darn ball and shut up. If A-Rod doesnt complain about hitting 8th, Zaun shouldnt complain.

I agree - that's a total pant-load of an excuse.

Zaun angers me because, despite my misgivings about his personality, he had me convinced that he would work out as an underrated starting catcher for the Jays.

This season, however, he's been awful. He's not hitting a lick and he can't defend at all. Watching the Jays via American broadcasts online really puts the Jays' defensive woes behind the plate in perspective: they all mention how terrible the team is at throwing out baserunners.

Sure, he calls a good game but unless Riccardi and Gibbons believe that Zaun is the full-time option for the future, play Thigpen 5 out of 7 starts from here on out. Thiggy's going to have to learn these pitchers anyway.

Given that this team's management feels like playing for third place matters at all, they'll probably play Zaun the majority of the innings from here on out.

OKAY.... BLUE JAYS!!!

[fliszt25]

Although I kind of like the fact that Zaun is fiery, it's obvious that he should not be behind the plate. No matter how much the Canadian commentators talk about our pitcher's high leg kicks, his throws are subpar most of the time. Plus, his hitting can only go south at this point in his career.

The poster who said Thigpen is patient but not a good hitter is missing the point. We are not playing for anything right now, so let's see if Thigpen can develop into a better hitter and better defensive catcher/game caller with REGULAR playing time (not 1 out of 5 games). Thigpen was hitting .285 in Syracuse. Thus, he has the potential with the bat and anybody with the exception of Jason Phillips is an improvement over Zaun defensively.

Finally, I also think, despite the fact that I love Johnny Mac's hustle and fielding, that Ray Olmedo should be given at least, an equal split at short. Olmedo's defense is alright and he hits well for contact. Johnny Mac's bat has withered over the course of the year and since we should be giving the young guys a chance, Olmedo is one that should be allowed to prove his worth.

[TR50]

just wondering, how old is olmedo and is he considered a top spect?

don't know much about him other than what i've seen

[Geddy]

Olmedo is 26 I think.

I don't know much about what his potential is supposed to be but from what he has shown thus far, I don't think he's supposed to be anything special. Maybe someone who knows the prospects better can fill us in.

At the moment I think Macdonald is good enough for us at SS. He's great with the glove, and if the rest of the offense was hitting the way it should, then his low numbers wouldn't matter so much.

[RingItUp!]

Olmedo is 26 I think.

I don't know much about what his potential is supposed to be but from what he has shown thus far, I don't think he's supposed to be anything special. Maybe someone who knows the prospects better can fill us in.

At the moment I think Macdonald is good enough for us at SS. He's great with the glove, and if the rest of the offense was hitting the way it should, then his low numbers wouldn't matter so much.

Agreed.

Johnny Mac is not the reason this year's Jays are underperforming: the guys who are supposed to knock in runs, aren't.

[fliszt25]

-= original quote snipped =-



Agreed.

Johnny Mac is not the reason this year's Jays are underperforming: the guys who are supposed to knock in runs, aren't.

I agree with you too. Johnny Mac is not responsible for the Jays' offensive woes. But....

If you read the thread on what the Jays have to do next year to get better, the same answer invariably comes up: improve short stop and catcher. For the SS position, that argument comes up absolutely in the context of a lack of offense.

Yes, if our bats were better then we wouldn't be discussing Johnny Mac's or Greg Zaun's hitting. However, we need GOOD contact hitting on this team so that the power guys feel less pressure to hit homeruns. MacDonald and Zaun do NOT give you that. When both Catalanatto and Hillenbrand (two .300 hitters) were on the team, the offense was way more relaxed. Thus, since hitting may be a liability next year, then why not see what Thigpen and Olmedo can do with more playing time?

Don't get me wrong, I think that Johnny Mac has done very well, in fact he's probably overperformed with the bat this year. His defense has been stellar but again, if our hitting struggles continue next year, Johnny's bat will most likely be looked upon as a liability. Olmedo may not bat for power or be a stellar prospect but since he hit .290 in Syracuse, that is enough of a reason to give him a chance.

[youreachiteach]

[quote="fliszt25"][/quote]

I agree an upgrade at those positions would help..but theres' not much chance of that--short of trading AJ burnett for an all-star catcher (or really high quality guy) or shortstop. But who's gonna go after such an injury prone guy? MAYBE the Mets with Lo Duca--but that's it. It seems pie in the sky right now.

Best Jays can hope for is if Diaz turns into a legit prospect (which he seems to be) and takes the job from Zaun (who is turn sends Thigpen down to triple A as insurance). The truth is, I think Diaz has surpassed Thigpen on the depth chart (despite some previous "character" issues Diaz has apparently worked out). Olmedo is a "reasonable" upgrade offensively to Mcdonald, although not a big one. His biggest assest frankly is that he makes the team more lefty.

I think the cheapest and most accessible way tomake the Jays better is to make Wells hit leadoff (he'll see more fastballs that way) and replace Johnson with Lind. against lefties. This will hopefully provide a spark to the lineup, as they hit better when he gets on(or plays better).

RH/

Wells
Lind
Overbay
Glaus
Rios
Stairs/Thomas (based on pct% against pitcher)
Hill
Zaun
Olmedo.

This maximizes the lefties in a way which prevents double plays from ALWAYS happening, the key being Overbay's hand being healthy

Why is this better? Wells finally can swing away and will naturally be more sucessful, as he is more likely to get first pitch dimers for hits, as we have seen. We make him steal bases to maximize his speed. Rios as well. Toronto will need to try to use as much of it's speed as possible, because the lefties are very slow.

Lind presents a patient hitter with pop and average who can at least hit the damn ball to the right side. Has ability to hit and run.

Overbay presents another tough lefty out who can pull the ball or take a walk. He's a slower version of Abreu when healthy.

By this point, we have our most powerful (I know, I know Rios is but wait a minute) hitter up with ducks on the pond. If his foot problem is healed by the orthotics, maybe the only guy save thomas who can hit for power and average.

By hitting our best player fifth, we protect Glaus and Overbay, who tend to be agressive by nature. They are far more likely to be piched to and not around. Rios looks to clean house.

Stairs/Thomas is up--they look to continue the rally or throw the knockout punch Rios couldn't deliver.

Hill/Adams-- solid hitters who will contribute regularly.

Zaun--he's lefty--although if Diaz flourishes, keep in this spot.

Olmedo--hits .295 in triple a and the majors so far--sounds better than Johnny Mac--although his D will of course be somewhat lacking. He looks very sharp himself, anyway. It also improves bench depth for next year.

LH/

Wells
Johnson
Rios
Glaus
Thomas
Hill
Overbay
Diaz
Johnny Mac (sub)

A plethora of righties to kill any lefty still alive by the fourth inning. It's too bad the league is mainly RIGHTHANDED JP!!

[OldNo7]

Extra-inning games always end right after I fall asleep on the couch. I always miss the ending.

[TR50]

Extra-inning games always end right after I fall asleep on the couch. I always miss the ending.

wow, i fell asleep right after we scored our 5th run....lying down on the couch too