2019/20 Offseason Idea: Brandon Ingram for the max

[Vae Victus]

Howdy all. Havent been here in awhile, but i always knew that ATL was headed to good things with your excellent FO and emphasis on character and organization development.

With Trae Young's loud arrival, it's clear the timeline for ATL has now moved up a year. Trae isnt gonna let the team be a cellar dweller, so the original Plan A of tank another year to accrue another high pick, to grab an elite big prospect, isnt as reasonable as before. Also to follow the LA Clippers example, if ATL can get into the playoffs and play hard, it makes them way more attractive to FAs and Superstars who might want to demand out.

The team is basically playing a lineup of under 40 mil, with a crapton in dead or near dead salaries in Parsons, Crabbe, and Turner. Pretty much ALL of the heavy lifting is done by rookie contract players.

The upcoming FA class is pretty damn barren, however one player who i've always liked is now emerging in Brandon Ingram (i'm a Laker/Clipper/Lin fan which is my ties to Ingram's progress and to all of ya'll). He's turning into a lethal SF scorer who's always done well on D using his insane length. He was one of the brightest spots on the Lakers with the abject failure of the top draft picks in DLo and Lonzo surrounding him, although tbf the Lakers have drafted VERY well on the low FRP and most SRPs.

Looking at your cap sheet next year. If ATL is gonna go for it, you can grab Ingram at the rookie 25% max of 4yr/126mil, and still have a crapload of capspace and assets to go trade for a disgruntled superstar (Bradley Beal is a nice target). Then the following 2 years you gotta re-up Collins and Trae respectively. Thus ideally you guys need to use up your cap space now while you have the space due to everyone's rookie deals being so cheap. However, even if you whiff on trading for a disgruntled superstar, Ingram 25% max deal still leaves you with plenty of cap room to roll over to the following season to chase a superstar max FAs.

Hell having Ingram on board, he could be used in a S&T with a team so that they dont lose their superstar for nothing (ala DLo to GSW). Like imagine if MIL is willing to S&T Giannis (who wants to join a better squad) for Ingram, assuming ya'll cant sign Giannis outright due to lack of cap (this assumes the cap shrinks due to the whole fiasco with China cutting off the NBA). Basically ATL is either signing a core young future piece to go with Trae/Collins, or to be used as trade bait for a worthier superstar SF.

By the math assuming Ingram is 25% maxxed in 2019/20 FA

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=15695158065db9402b5b025429237648

There's still upward to 45mil in cap space if all the RFAs are renounced. Better yet to resign your RFAs for cheap and use em as trade bait. If an elite SG or C isnt obtained, then the remaining cap can be rolled over to try again in 2020/21 FA.

Thus u can roll out this next year

C- Len?, Lee?
PF-Collins
SF- Ingram, Hunter, Bembry?
SG- Huerter, Reddish
PG- Trae

With about 35ish mil cap space if Jabari Parker opts out and the FA/RFAs are kept on reasonable deals.

If Ingram manages to fill out his frame he can potentially play smallball PF and you can roll out a

C- Collins
PF-Ingram
SF-Hunter
SG-Huerter
PG-Trae

Speed lineup with an asston of 1-4 3pt shooting.

If ya'll can somehow also trade for Bradley Beal, oh snap, you guys are DEFINITELY gonna go somewhere. Likely it'll cost Huerter, Hunter, and eating up the rest of your cap, but that's an easy price to pay IMHO.

[King Ken]

We need a center, not Brandon Ingram

[Vae Victus]

We need a center, not Brandon Ingram

Still have almost 35mil in capspace even after acquiring Ingram, to go get a C.

Although nowadays, you dont need to pay big bucks to a C. Just need someone servicable to defend the paint, grab rebounds, and be a good PnR threat. Outside shooting a plus.

So like, John Collins just isnt gonna play C? I mean, he's got a great offensive game, just no 3pt shooting. Playing him at the 4 is a bit of a waste unless you have a stretch 5 who wont embarass himself on defense and rebounding.

[King Ken]

We need a center, not Brandon Ingram

Still have almost 35mil in capspace even after acquiring Ingram, to go get a C.

Although nowadays, you dont need to pay big bucks to a C. Just need someone servicable to defend the paint, grab rebounds, and be a good PnR threat. Outside shooting a plus.

So like, John Collins just isnt gonna play C? I mean, he's got a great offensive game, just no 3pt shooting. Playing him at the 4 is a bit of a waste unless you have a stretch 5 who wont embarass himself on defense and rebounding.

We appreciate your post and your effort. It was admirable but Hunter is our SF for now and the future. We don't need a high price wing. We need a center. No, Collins can't play the 5 without fouling out.

[jayu70]

We need a center, not Brandon Ingram

Still have almost 35mil in capspace even after acquiring Ingram, to go get a C.

Although nowadays, you dont need to pay big bucks to a C. Just need someone servicable to defend the paint, grab rebounds, and be a good PnR threat. Outside shooting a plus.

So like, John Collins just isnt gonna play C? I mean, he's got a great offensive game, just no 3pt shooting. Playing him at the 4 is a bit of a waste unless you have a stretch 5 who wont embarass himself on defense and rebounding.

I just don't see the Hawks maxing out a wing in FAcy after trading up for Hunter to play SF.
John Collins is our 4, he'd foul out if played exclusively at the 5. Collins has also added a 3 point shot since last season which he showed the last part of the season. Just last night he was 5 of 8 from 3, so yes, he has 3ot shooting.

[CP War Hawks]

Schlenk is not maxing anyone in this god forsaken FA class. Besides, Red is in the same ilk of Ingram imo. Personally, I'd go with Drummond and Teague with a team friendly deal if applicable.

[Vae Victus]

We need a center, not Brandon Ingram

Still have almost 35mil in capspace even after acquiring Ingram, to go get a C.

Although nowadays, you dont need to pay big bucks to a C. Just need someone servicable to defend the paint, grab rebounds, and be a good PnR threat. Outside shooting a plus.

So like, John Collins just isnt gonna play C? I mean, he's got a great offensive game, just no 3pt shooting. Playing him at the 4 is a bit of a waste unless you have a stretch 5 who wont embarass himself on defense and rebounding.

I just don't see the Hawks maxing out a wing in FAcy after trading up for Hunter to play SF.
John Collins is our 4, he'd foul out if played exclusively at the 5. Collins has also added a 3 point shot since last season which he showed the last part of the season. Just last night he was 5 of 8 from 3, so yes, he has 3ot shooting.

I'm of the opinion that 1 or 2 of Hunter/Reddish/Huerter be used as bait to get either an elite SG or C. Ingram locking down the 3 spot, with the ability to play some smallball 4 due to his length.

Now maybe Hunter balls like out and is a no-brainer to be the starting 3 from here on, making Ingram redundant. However assuming Hunter doesnt break out, i feel that its best for a team to obtain as much talent as possible before rookie scale contracts expire and young players need their raises. Ingram's got the right skillset, size, and youth to fit right in.

I'd say, that the better ATL does next year, the more likely theyll attract a true Superstar max FA like Giannis when he becomes available. If ATL misses the playoffs and finishes low in teh standings again, i can understand preaching patience. If they dont and manage to make the playoffs, i'd say start going all in now and put yourselves in the best footing for 2021 FA.

Just my opinion of course, Ingram could very well suck again or suffer chronic blood clot issues, making signing him dumb. The way ATL is rebuilding is one of the most ideal and there's many paths forward. Trae's breakout since the middle of last season truly was something to behold, after his horrendous start, would really love start stacking up more veteran complimentary talent around him.

[jayu70]

Still have almost 35mil in capspace even after acquiring Ingram, to go get a C.

Although nowadays, you dont need to pay big bucks to a C. Just need someone servicable to defend the paint, grab rebounds, and be a good PnR threat. Outside shooting a plus.

So like, John Collins just isnt gonna play C? I mean, he's got a great offensive game, just no 3pt shooting. Playing him at the 4 is a bit of a waste unless you have a stretch 5 who wont embarass himself on defense and rebounding.

I just don't see the Hawks maxing out a wing in FAcy after trading up for Hunter to play SF.
John Collins is our 4, he'd foul out if played exclusively at the 5. Collins has also added a 3 point shot since last season which he showed the last part of the season. Just last night he was 5 of 8 from 3, so yes, he has 3ot shooting.

I'm of the opinion that 1 or 2 of Hunter/Reddish/Huerter be used as bait to get either an elite SG or C. Ingram locking down the 3 spot, with the ability to play some smallball 4 due to his length.

Now maybe Hunter balls like out and is a no-brainer to be the starting 3 from here on, making Ingram redundant. However assuming Hunter doesnt break out, i feel that its best for a team to obtain as much talent as possible before rookie scale contracts expire and young players need their raises. Ingram's got the right skillset, size, and youth to fit right in.

I'd say, that the better ATL does next year, the more likely theyll attract a true Superstar max FA like Giannis when he becomes available. If ATL misses the playoffs and finishes low in teh standings again, i can understand preaching patience. If they dont and manage to make the playoffs, i'd say start going all in now and put yourselves in the best footing for 2021 FA.

Just my opinion of course, Ingram could very well suck again or suffer chronic blood clot issues, making signing him dumb. The way ATL is rebuilding is one of the most ideal and there's many paths forward. Trae's breakout since the middle of last season truly was something to behold, after his horrendous start, would really love start stacking up more veteran complimentary talent around him.

Which elite SG and C would that be? The available 'elites' are very few.

[Threezus]

I personally wouldn't do it for Ingram and waste what readily available cap Space we have on a position like Sf where we have already drafted a guy that we invision could be a cheaper but better version than Ingram in the long run. Their is absolutely no reason at all to rush or speed up the rebuild. Just because Trae and them are playing good doesn't mean you go away from the process you are already working to perfection just to speed it up by 1 year. Thats how teams screw up is by being impatient. Just do what you can this year and next sign some solid vets to keep the team going and draft well until 2021 FA where you can have your pick of 2 to 3 max players and let them form a group together that wan to come here. That is the smart thing to do these days since the players themselves seem to want to make their own group to join a team. So why not give them all the cap space they need to do so and add to our young roster. Not waste a max spot now and force another player to be with Ingram as their partner if they don't want to.

[Jamaaliver]

Ingram has looked great thus far this year.

This is ultimately what we hope Reddish grows into...though it could be a while before that happens.

(It also makes me wonder if Reddish's ideal role could similarly be as a Point Forward instead of a SG.)

The Brandon Ingram Reboot Is Off to a Very Promising Start

With Zion Williamson and other key Pelicans sidelined, the former no. 2 overall pick has gotten a second chance at being a no. 1 option



Brandon Ingram is off to the best start of his NBA career, averaging 27.3 points per game on 50/50/73 shooting splits to go with 9.5 rebounds, 4.8 assists, and 1.3 blocks in 34 minutes per contest. With Zion unavailable, Holiday slow to get off the starting line before spraining his knee, and the Pelicans generally scrambling to establish some consistency and normalcy after such massive roster turnover in the summer, Ingram has stepped into the void. Despite squaring off against some tough defenders thus far, with the likes of P.J. Tucker, OG Anunoby, Pascal Siakam, and Draymond Green all taking their turns on him, Ingram has opened the season looking like the kind of top scoring threat many expected him to be coming out of Duke.

Watch on YouTube

The biggest change for Ingram thus far has been his willingness to fire away from 3-point range. As a Laker, Ingram never seemed totally at ease bombing from long distance, preferring to use his 7-foot-3 wingspan to take midrange jumpers over the top of smaller defenders. When he did let it fly from 3, he wasn’t a reliable marksman, knocking down just 32.9 percent of his long-range tries on 386 attempts across three seasons.

Since arriving in New Orleans as part of this summer’s Anthony Davis trade, though, Ingram has appeared more willing to alter his shot profile. He’s still a midrange monster, but a slightly less voracious one, taking a smaller share of his shots between the paint and arc—41 percent of his total attempts, according to Cleaning the Glass, down from 45 percent last season. At the same time, he’s nearly tripled his 3-point rate. He had attempted five or more 3-pointers in a game just 10 times through his first three NBA seasons; he’s done it in all four outings as a Pelican, drilling them at a crisp 50 percent clip.

Spoiler:

In L.A., Ingram sometimes looked like a player who liked to meander through possessions, probing and overdribbling in search of a cleaner isolation look or a better playmaking angle. So far, though, he seems to be making an effort to get with the Pelicans’ program. He’s averaging 46.8 passes per game, up from 39 per game last season, according to NBA.com’s Second Spectrum tracking data. Ingram’s getting the ball out of his hands more quickly, too, averaging 2.09 dribbles and 3.09 seconds per touch this season, down from 2.82 dribbles and 3.82 seconds last season.

Less pounding the rock means more quick decisions, which means a higher likelihood of getting an open look or catching a defense off-balance. Ingram has been capitalizing on that, posting a scorching 77.8 percent effective field goal percentage on catch-and-shoot looks.

A more varied scoring attack can make Ingram a complete offensive player; he’s already proven to be a solid facilitator during stints as an ostensible point forward with the Lakers brought on by injuries to James and Lonzo Ball. He’s flashed those talents in the early going in New Orleans, too, delivering 19 assists against 10 turnovers through four games. All 19 dimes have led to shots directly at the rim or from 3-point land, according to pbpstats.com, as Ingram has used his size, pace, patience, vision, and touch to put his teammates in positions to knock down the most valuable shots in the game.

The big question, of course, is whether it’ll stay that way. If he keeps this up, Ingram could become the belle of the free agent ball, eliciting significant offers from either a Pelicans team eager to keep an exciting young core together, or the few teams with major cap space who might like to fill it with a 22-year-old potential star in the making.

July’s a long way off, though, and you wouldn’t blame Ingram for wanting to stay focused on the present. After three seasons marked by injury, doubt, and struggle, Ingram has stepped into the spotlight.

The Ringer

[kg01]

I commend ThIngram for how well(sic) he's played but there's no way I'm maxing him out. For better or worse, we have our wangs of the (now and) future.

Plus I'm not even a big fan of his in the first place.

[shakes0]

Ingram's ISO ball doesn't fit in with what the Hawks are trying to accomplish. Plus we just drafted Hunter who slots in to our starting SF spot for the next 10 years.

Easy pass.

[Shooter Says]

If I'm the Hawks I'm not spending any big money this off season and I'm for sure not giving Ingram the max when we have Collins, Reddish, and Hunter already.

The 2021 FA class should be when we look to start handing out max contracts: Kawhi, Giannis, PG, Beal, Gobert, Adams, Drummond, etc. Give me Beal and Gobert.

[jayu70]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Zion returns, besides he wouldn't have the ball as much here with Trae dominating it.

[Jamaaliver]

Ingram's ISO ball doesn't fit in with what the Hawks are trying to accomplish.

I'm not certain if this is still accurate. I think in LA, it also was a result of coaching/scheme.

Code: Select all

In L.A., Ingram sometimes looked like a player who liked to meander through possessions, probing and overdribbling in search of a cleaner isolation look or a better playmaking angle.

So far, though, he seems to be making an effort to get with the Pelicans’ program. He’s averaging 46.8 passes per game, up from 39 per game last season, according to NBA.com’s Second Spectrum tracking data. Ingram’s getting the ball out of his hands more quickly, too, averaging 2.09 dribbles and 3.09 seconds per touch this season, down from 2.82 dribbles and 3.82 seconds last season.

[shakes0]

Ingram's ISO ball doesn't fit in with what the Hawks are trying to accomplish.

I'm not certain if this is still accurate. I think in LA, it also was a result of coaching/scheme.

Code: Select all

In L.A., Ingram sometimes looked like a player who liked to meander through possessions, probing and overdribbling in search of a cleaner isolation look or a better playmaking angle.

So far, though, he seems to be making an effort to get with the Pelicans’ program. He’s averaging 46.8 passes per game, up from 39 per game last season, according to NBA.com’s Second Spectrum tracking data. Ingram’s getting the ball out of his hands more quickly, too, averaging 2.09 dribbles and 3.09 seconds per touch this season, down from 2.82 dribbles and 3.82 seconds last season.

Being a Lonzo stan I've watched all their games and haven't really noticed a change in his playstyle, but I'll pay closer attention.

[Spud2nique]

Ingram doesn’t fit with us imo. I want guys like RIP Hamilton or Ray Allen to work with Trae. Guys who are capable of making the right play and moving WITHOUT the ball. Ingram will never be that guy.

[Vae Victus]

If Ingram has a good season, i think he becomes the #1 FA on the market, considering all the other young FA/RFAs of note have been extended (Siakam, Brown, Simmons, etc). Not to mention the team will still have a TON of cap space even after a 25% max to Ingram to go after some other bargain FA signings. There's no point in spending big money on non-impact FAs (just look at the wasteful signings of SAC, 4/88 for Barnes and 3/35 for Dedmon), except perhaps 1 year big money deals to one of the better FAs like Marc Gasol, Derrick Favors, or maybe max out Drummond instead of Ingram? Roll over the remaining cap space on 1 year vets to bolster the bench. Then go after Giannis with the available max slot in 2021

C - Drummond
PF- Collins
SF- Giannis, Hunter
SG- Huerter, Reddish
PG- Trae

But then a Drummond/Giannis combo prolly wont have enough shooting unless Giannis develops a 3 over the next 2 years.

[kg01]

I think (over)paying ThIngram in a year will look like SAC (over)paying Barnes does right now. Improper rebuild acceleration.

[jayu70]

If Ingram has a good season, i think he becomes the #1 FA on the market, considering all the other young FA/RFAs of note have been extended (Siakam, Brown, Simmons, etc). Not to mention the team will still have a TON of cap space even after a 25% max to Ingram to go after some other bargain FA signings. There's no point in spending big money on non-impact FAs (just look at the wasteful signings of SAC, 4/88 for Barnes and 3/35 for Dedmon), except perhaps 1 year big money deals to one of the better FAs like Marc Gasol, Derrick Favors, or maybe max out Drummond instead of Ingram? Roll over the remaining cap space on 1 year vets to bolster the bench. Then go after Giannis with the available max slot in 2021

C - Drummond
PF- Collins
SF- Giannis, Hunter
SG- Huerter, Reddish
PG- Trae

But then a Drummond/Giannis combo prolly wont have enough shooting unless Giannis develops a 3 over the next 2 years.

Siakam and Simmons both got max extensions, no one else did.
Not everyone DESERVES a max and he certainly doesn't.
Just because we have capspace doesn't mean we go crazy and spend it, especially on a position we just invested in by moving up in the draft. Again Ingram is effective with the ball, Trae will have the ball, a lot.
You just keep on the development track of the young players and rollover the FA money to the following offseason.
If Steven Adams becomes available, I'd try and get him and keep moving.