If GSW Sucks This Year...Do We Re-Evaluate Peak Russ Versus Peak Steph?

[K_chile22]

Steph is the best cieling raiser in the NBA. He turns a good team into a contender like no one else can. He's not close to guys like Russ, Harden, LeBron in terms of floor raising. But also this team is worse than that OKC team. They have 4 proven rotation caliber players.

[kendogg]

I agree Steph is a better ceiling raiser than floor raiser, but not sure that he's the best ceiling raiser. He's getting old as well for a guard, who are more reliant on quickness than other players.

Draymond is a role player and not remotely a max level talent. I'd take a 3&D player like Danny Green over him in a heartbeat. The fact that Dray can handle the ball a bit is irrelevant due to the fact that he can't shoot and he's not an elite finisher either so he can't create space that well. It only worked because the Warriors had such good shooters and in particular 3 stars who are maybe the best 3 in the league off ball (Steph, KD, Klay). On any other team, his value drops significantly, as we can see right now. He is a completely useless player on this team. They are the worst team in the league on both ends of the court.

[WarriorGM]

Steph is the best cieling raiser in the NBA. He turns a good team into a contender like no one else can. He's not close to guys like Russ, Harden, LeBron in terms of floor raising. But also this team is worse than that OKC team. They have 4 proven rotation caliber players.

This is a false story. Curry can raise a floor dramatically. He's been doing it his whole basketball career. Was bringing Davidson to the Elite Eight floor raising or ceiling raising? Was bringing the 2013 Dubs to the second round of the playoffs floor raising or ceiling raising? When did Russ bring a team to the second round on his back?

[Pelly24]

Steph is the best cieling raiser in the NBA. He turns a good team into a contender like no one else can. He's not close to guys like Russ, Harden, LeBron in terms of floor raising. But also this team is worse than that OKC team. They have 4 proven rotation caliber players.

This is a false story. Curry can raise a floor dramatically. He's been doing it his whole basketball career. Was bringing Davidson to the Elite Eight floor raising or ceiling raising? Was bringing the 2013 Dubs to the second round of the playoffs floor raising or ceiling raising? When did Russ bring a team to the second round on his back?

I think Steph is probably a better floor raiser than people think, but we won't get to see now

[timlin500]

Curry has already shown plenty of times of winning regardless of stacked talent or decent talent since 2013. But sure, let's use a 3.5 game sample size from this season where the Warriors have 3 NBA players and a G league roster to prove that Curry is "EXPOSED"!!! Even Michael Jordan had a "bad" 3 game streak...

[freethedevil]

Which is to say maybe people severely underestimate Russ at his peak, then. Because the ability to drag a team devoid of offensive firepower to 48 wins or so is very impressive.

Peak westbrook was rated to have had the 25th best peak ever on the PC board. Curry is not at his peak currently. We do not need to revealuate curry's various atg regular seasons and playoffs, because one atg season might have an argument against one of curry's down years

[i]I don't like the result, so Imma make up an excuse![/i].

[freethedevil]

Players thrive in different situations and systems. Westbrook wouldn't be as successful in the Warriors system and Curry likewise in a system that needs him to be ball dominant.

All it really means is that Curry isn't better in all circumstances. Likewise Westbrook. But then we already knew that.

Which is to say maybe people severely underestimate Russ at his peak, then. Because the ability to drag a team devoid of offensive firepower to 48 wins or so is very impressive.

It depends on what you want from your team playoffs appearances or championships. Russ is a great floor raiser no doubt

Given that the thunder outscored the rockets when westbook was on the court and given that this was a better version of the westbrook who was okc's best player as they almost reached the nba final the prior season, the notion 2017 westbrook couldn't lead a contender is kind of laughable. 2017 Westbrook is 2016 westbrook, who was the third or 4th best player of the playoffs + a servicable outside shot.

[Woody Allen]

Ridiculous comparison. Peak Curry had one of the best seasons ever. Peak Westbrook was still highly flawed, made bad decisions all the time.

[bledredwine]

As evidenced by the Chris Paul fans that still exist to this day,

A player is remembered by their best years, not by their worst.

[G35]

Players thrive in different situations and systems. Westbrook wouldn't be as successful in the Warriors system and Curry likewise in a system that needs him to be ball dominant.

All it really means is that Curry isn't better in all circumstances. Likewise Westbrook. But then we already knew that.

Great answer!

Its beyond me how people think that playing in one system, with a particular set of teammates, translates to all situations. Not just referencing Steph and WB, but few players were able to be put in a system and surrounded by teammates that complement their skill set.

Its rare.

I think Magic, Jordan, Russell, Steph, Nash, and Harden are a select few that have had that opportunity......

[E-Balla]

No because this is now 4 years later. Plus I already put peak Westbrook over peak Curry anyway.

[Peregrine01]

As far as the whole floor raising argument, did people forget what Steph did with those 2013 and 2014 GSW teams? Those teams were no where expected to go that far and to have pushed title contenders as deep in the playoffs as they did. It’s crazy how 3 bad games on a completely new roster full of g-leaguers have altered this perception.

In my view, Curry is the better floor raiser than Russ and the significantly better ceiling raiser.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Steph is the best cieling raiser in the NBA. He turns a good team into a contender like no one else can. He's not close to guys like Russ, Harden, LeBron in terms of floor raising. But also this team is worse than that OKC team. They have 4 proven rotation caliber players.

On what basis is Steph a great celiing or floor raiser?

[An Unbiased Fan]

As far as the whole floor raising argument, did people forget what Steph did with those 2013 and 2014 GSW teams? Those teams were no where expected to go that far and to have pushed title contenders as deep in the playoffs as they did. It’s crazy how 3 bad games on a completely new roster full of g-leaguers have altered this perception.

In my view, Curry is the better floor raiser than Russ and the significantly better ceiling raiser.

2012 Warriors had Curry hurt for most of the seaosn, and Klay was a bench player. They get better in 2013 becuase Curry is healthy and Klay starts adding 17 ppg. In 2014 Dray elevated in David Lee's place.

Curry didn't raise anything.

[Peregrine01]

As far as the whole floor raising argument, did people forget what Steph did with those 2013 and 2014 GSW teams? Those teams were no where expected to go that far and to have pushed title contenders as deep in the playoffs as they did. It’s crazy how 3 bad games on a completely new roster full of g-leaguers have altered this perception.

In my view, Curry is the better floor raiser than Russ and the significantly better ceiling raiser.

2012 Warriors had Curry hurt for most of the seaosn, and Klay was a bench player. They get better in 2013 becuase Curry is healthy and Klay starts adding 17 ppg. In 2014 Dray elevated in David Lee's place.

Curry didn't raise anything.

Warriors were still thought of as a joke up until 2013, when Steph finally had a healthy year. Wonder why that is?

[timlin500]

No one expected Warriors to win the championship to start the 2015 season either. But of course once they start winning it's because they're "STACKED" right?

[An Unbiased Fan]

As far as the whole floor raising argument, did people forget what Steph did with those 2013 and 2014 GSW teams? Those teams were no where expected to go that far and to have pushed title contenders as deep in the playoffs as they did. It’s crazy how 3 bad games on a completely new roster full of g-leaguers have altered this perception.

In my view, Curry is the better floor raiser than Russ and the significantly better ceiling raiser.

2012 Warriors had Curry hurt for most of the seaosn, and Klay was a bench player. They get better in 2013 becuase Curry is healthy and Klay starts adding 17 ppg. In 2014 Dray elevated in David Lee's place.

Curry didn't raise anything.

Warriors were still thought of as a joke up until 2013, when Steph finally had a healthy year. Wonder why that is?

Again, Klay also was a big factor as he became a starter. They also had a rookie Dray in 2013.

[freethedevil]

Steph is the best cieling raiser in the NBA. He turns a good team into a contender like no one else can. He's not close to guys like Russ, Harden, LeBron in terms of floor raising. But also this team is worse than that OKC team. They have 4 proven rotation caliber players.

On what basis is Steph a great celiing or floor raiser?

Currently in the 2020 season, the warriors have been 12 wins worse without curry. Kobe bryant couldn't get a 35 win supporting cast to the playoffs in his prime. On what basis is Kobe a great floor or celing raiser?

[trex_8063]

2012 Warriors had Curry hurt for most of the seaosn, and Klay was a bench player. They get better in 2013 becuase Curry is healthy and Klay starts adding 17 ppg. In 2014 Dray elevated in David Lee's place.

Curry didn't raise anything.

Warriors were still thought of as a joke up until 2013, when Steph finally had a healthy year. Wonder why that is?

Again, Klay also was a big factor as he became a starter. They also had a rookie Dray in 2013.

This seems classic name-dropping form of strawman, where you name-drop a sometime star player without at all acknowledging what type of player he is in the year in question.
Seriously, how is rookie Dray relevant at all wrt 2013? He was 8th on the roster in total minutes played (13.4 mpg) with a 7.1 PER, -3.1 BPM, -1.4 RAPM that year.

It's perhaps not quite as bad as if I'd suggested Robert Parish was relevant to the success of the '97 Bulls, but it's likely worse than if I were to suggest Shaquille O'Neal was instrumental to the success of the '11 Celtics.

And you can't hide behind any sort of "well, I said it was rookie Dray" explanation. Because if we're in agreement that he was basically just a scrub at this point in his career, then I'd ask again: how is he relevant? Why bring him up at all?

[Peregrine01]

2012 Warriors had Curry hurt for most of the seaosn, and Klay was a bench player. They get better in 2013 becuase Curry is healthy and Klay starts adding 17 ppg. In 2014 Dray elevated in David Lee's place.

Curry didn't raise anything.

Warriors were still thought of as a joke up until 2013, when Steph finally had a healthy year. Wonder why that is?

Again, Klay also was a big factor as he became a starter. They also had a rookie Dray in 2013.

So Klay went from 13 ppg on 55% TS to a 17 ppg scorer on 53% TS while Draymond was a rookie playing 13 minutes a game. This is what accounted for the Warriors going from 23 wins and last quartile in SRS to the second round in the playoffs and challenging the WCF champs in just a year?