Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

Coach Carter · Post #1301 » by **Coach Carter** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 5:19 am

I like that he's patient and uses his size, strength well

kid idioteque · Post #1302 » by **kid idioteque** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 6:22 am

Prez wrote:
kid idioteque wrote:Guys, he's putting up nice numbers without much of a supporting cast. Remember the numbers Michael-Carter Williams put up in his rookie year?

lol what? it's not even remotely close.

That's not my point. At all. It's that with Malcolm it's a small sample size and he's THE guy on that team right now. These numbers almost certainly won't last.

Pachinko_ · Post #1303 » by **Pachinko_** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 7:50 am

Brodgon is like Giannis in that he keeps getting better every year.
That's probably the one thing we didn't take into account, even though it was happening before our eyes for 3 years straight.

soxperry · Post #1304 » by **soxperry** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 12:43 pm

All of a sudden Brogdon doesnt need 3 seconds to load his three point shot anymore? Lol thats comical, although he will never have a quick release by nba standards.

If DDV is a hard worker, we wont miss Brogdon in two years. If he's not, we better hope that draft pick is well utilized.

drew881 · Post #1305 » by **drew881** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 12:56 pm

soxperry wrote:All of a sudden Brogdon doesnt need 3 seconds to load his three point shot anymore? Lol thats comical, although he will never have a quick release by nba standards.

If DDV is a hard worker, we wont miss Brogdon in two years. If he's not, we better hope that draft pick is well utilized.

We are going to regret it, regardless of DDV. Brogdon is what puts us over the top this year. He was our Ginobili.

jakecronus8 · Post #1306 » by **jakecronus8** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 1:11 pm

soxperry · Post #1307 » by **soxperry** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:02 pm

drew881 wrote:
soxperry wrote:All of a sudden Brogdon doesnt need 3 seconds to load his three point shot anymore? Lol thats comical, although he will never have a quick release by nba standards.

If DDV is a hard worker, we wont miss Brogdon in two years. If he's not, we better hope that draft pick is well utilized.

We are going to regret it, regardless of DDV. Brogdon is what puts us over the top this year. He was our Ginobili.

I disagree. I think even with a healthy Brogdon in Matthews spot, this team's ceiling is completely dictated by Giannis's evolution. He needs to learn to play with control when he cant get all the way to the hoop. Our entire offense is predicated on him. We saw it against Toronto, we saw it against Miami, and we saw it against Boston. When Giannis meets a wall in the paint, he either commits an offensive foul, turns it over, doesnt pass quick enough or accurately enough, or just brings it back out and stands around. If hes not going to be a good shooter, he needs to figure out the post game. ..and of course free throws.

kid idioteque · Post #1308 » by **kid idioteque** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:09 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:Brodgon is like Giannis in that he keeps getting better every year.
That's probably the one thing we didn't take into account, even though it was happening before our eyes for 3 years straight.

He's 3 years older than Giannis.

Pachinko_ · Post #1309 » by **Pachinko_** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:14 pm

kid idioteque wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Brodgon is like Giannis in that he keeps getting better every year.
That's probably the one thing we didn't take into account, even though it was happening before our eyes for 3 years straight.

He's 3 years older than Giannis.

Yeah I've been told about his age and his low ceiling since we drafted him.
Didn't mean anything then and still doesn't mean anything now.

kid idioteque · Post #1310 » by **kid idioteque** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:15 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:
kid idioteque wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Brodgon is like Giannis in that he keeps getting better every year.
That's probably the one thing we didn't take into account, even though it was happening before our eyes for 3 years straight.

He's 3 years older than Giannis.

Yeah I've been told about his age and his low ceiling since we drafted him.
Didn't mean anything then and still doesn't mean anything now.

It sure does at 27.

Pachinko_ · Post #1311 » by **Pachinko_** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:16 pm

kid idioteque wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:
kid idioteque wrote:
He's 3 years older than Giannis.

Yeah I've been told about his age and his low ceiling since we drafted him.
Didn't mean anything then and still doesn't mean anything now.

It sure does at 27.

Yeah I'll believe it when his numbers stop improving.

midranger · Post #1312 » by **midranger** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:24 pm

The minimization of what Brogdon brought for us and what he’s bring for Indy currently remains mysterious to me.

He’s pretty much exactly what we need right now. A guard to make threes at a high clip and do something positive off the bounce against an unbalanced defense. Also showing he can clearly handle being a playmaker when Bledsoe decides to go all Bledsoe.

soxperry · Post #1313 » by **soxperry** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:59 pm

midranger wrote:The minimization of what Brogdon brought for us and what he’s bring for Indy currently remains mysterious to me.

He’s pretty much exactly what we need right now. A guard to make threes at a high clip and do something positive off the bounce against an unbalanced defense. Also showing he can clearly handle being a playmaker when Bledsoe decides to go all Bledsoe.

Sure. How did that work against Toronto for us?

Was he "doing something positive off the bounce against an unbalanced defense" or was he standing around the perimeter like everyone else? We had a great point differential with Brogdon last season. Do you know what our point differential was without Brogdon (when Giannis played)? Also great (+11.75).

Brogdon went to a team with no superstar, not even a star, and zero bench and his stats look better. I'm shocked.

He's playing 5.5 more minutes per game, taking 5 more shots per game (1.2 more 3pa), almost 4 more FTA per game. As a result, his 2p% has dropped from .544 to .483, his 3p% has dropped from .426 to .360. His assist numbers have gone through the roof but he would never be playing point for us so that's irrelevant.

He's exactly what we all thought he was: A guy who is extremely efficient in small to medium doses when he can shoot under the right circumstances. I will miss his toughness, his calm presence, and those cheap and dirty drives to the hoop for easy layups when the defense is napping, but he's not the answer to our problems right now.

EDIT: He's also 33% from 3 on pull ups, 40% on catch and shoot, 41% on wide open 3s, 25% on open 3s. The catch and shoot and wide open numbers are actually significantly worse than last years, so it's not JUST that he is taking more shots in less than ideal circumstances, but he's also doing significantly worse in his ideal circumstances.

midranger · Post #1314 » by **midranger** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 3:50 pm

Mysterious

Chuck Diesel · Post #1315 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 3:58 pm

No but he hated Milwaukee. People even had sources who said he even moved out of the condo he was renting right after the season.

JayMKE · Post #1316 » by **JayMKE** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 4:07 pm

I haven't spent time in Indianapolis but it's not exactly the place I think of as a place I'd want to go if I was wanted out of Milwaukee, I guess I don't know what his priorities are but it's not like he bolted for NYC/DC/LA. If Brogdon was unhappy here it was probably because the FO didn't consider him a long term core piece going back to when Kidd was still coach. Clearly they chose Bledsoe as a cornerstone over Brogdon and maybe that miffed him.

MAC1987 · Post #1317 » by **MAC1987** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 4:09 pm

Very good summary. It's been said but Brogs also cannot guard good PGs. That's where Bledsoe excels.

I'm also going to wait until after the trade deadline and maybe the season to see how the moves pan out.

soxperry wrote:
midranger wrote:The minimization of what Brogdon brought for us and what he’s bring for Indy currently remains mysterious to me.

He’s pretty much exactly what we need right now. A guard to make threes at a high clip and do something positive off the bounce against an unbalanced defense. Also showing he can clearly handle being a playmaker when Bledsoe decides to go all Bledsoe.

Sure. How did that work against Toronto for us?

Was he "doing something positive off the bounce against an unbalanced defense" or was he standing around the perimeter like everyone else? We had a great point differential with Brogdon last season. Do you know what our point differential was without Brogdon (when Giannis played)? Also great (+11.75).

Brogdon went to a team with no superstar, not even a star, and zero bench and his stats look better. I'm shocked.

He's playing 5.5 more minutes per game, taking 5 more shots per game (1.2 more 3pa), almost 4 more FTA per game. As a result, his 2p% has dropped from .544 to .483, his 3p% has dropped from .426 to .360. His assist numbers have gone through the roof but he would never be playing point for us so that's irrelevant.

He's exactly what we all thought he was: A guy who is extremely efficient in small to medium doses when he can shoot under the right circumstances. I will miss his toughness, his calm presence, and those cheap and dirty drives to the hoop for easy layups when the defense is napping, but he's not the answer to our problems right now.

EDIT: He's also 33% from 3 on pull ups, 40% on catch and shoot, 41% on wide open 3s, 25% on open 3s. The catch and shoot and wide open numbers are actually significantly worse than last years, so it's not JUST that he is taking more shots in less than ideal circumstances, but he's also doing significantly worse in his ideal circumstances.

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soxperry · Post #1318 » by **soxperry** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 4:10 pm

midranger wrote:Mysterious

at least you wasted a post more efficiently this time.

Post #1319 » by **Prez** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 4:17 pm

kid idioteque wrote:That's not my point. At all. It's that with Malcolm it's a small sample size and he's THE guy on that team right now. These numbers almost certainly won't last.

That's fine, it's the MCW mention that makes little sense. MCW's numbers sucked even through that small sample size. Dude had that 1 great game against Miami and like a 45% TS aside from it.

DavidDunn21 · Post #1320 » by **DavidDunn21** » Sat Nov 2, 2019 4:28 pm

Malcolm was the only starting player who hadn't already made generational money. He knew he was older and sometimes injured. He had to get the bag.

Ownership and the coaching staff showed that they valued other players more than him. In the case of Khris, much more than him.

So after being subjected to dishonest Middleton player groupings for two years:
("He's one of only five players averaging more than 18.2/5.8/4.9 and shooting more than 38.2 from 3!!!")
I'm here for all the misleading Brogdon stats.

By the way, it isn't that he has a slow release. He simply sets and decides whether or not to attack the closeout. It's actually a smart thing that he does. He gets an extra beat to measure the shot. It took all of three games for people to turn on Wes for letting it fly.

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