The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III

[76ciology]

At some point we have to accept Ben for what he is. And this means putting him against PGs on defense and letting him attack smaller opponents at the post with 4 guys spacing the floor.

This means less post plays for Embiid when Ben is on the court.

Because the kind of game Ben plays against the Hawks and the Blazers can’t continue. Unless you want him to be invisible again during the playoffs.

Scratch that.

Ben is scoring only .35ppp on post up compared to Embiid’s 1.33ppp with 2nd most volume in the league.

[Simmons25]

im not giving up on ben (yet) but he cant even hold himself accountable

what happened to "if im open, ill take it!"

hes been open at the beginning of almost every possession he's ever had since the opening game and we've gotten nothing.

i understand his thinking in that finding the open guy for 3 is the best option/outcome but how many times has our offense broken down in the halfcourt to the point where the ball ends up in ennis' or matisse's or korks (great game though) hands where they're forced to put up a contested 3 that obviously has little to no chance going in? I'd rather see ben takes those open 3s instead. is he really that bad of a shooter that a wide open 3/almost akin to being in an open gym from ben...is a lower percentage shot than a dribble step back contested 3 by kork?

I said during the game that when you have guys that shoot 36% career from three.... barely able to make a shot between them as was the case last night... asking Ben to be the guy to shoot 3's when he is 0% in his career is not only a complete waste of time but sheer stupidity. If he doesn't do it in blow out wins you can't expect him to do it when the game is tight.

But there is absolutely no reason at all he shouldn't be taking at least 2-3 three pointers per game, not because it's the best play (because it definitely isn't) but it needs to happen for spacing. I have no problem seeing Mattise jacking up threes at 25%.... Ben should at least be able to do the same.

At this point he needs to see a Psychologist... who can maybe sit him down on a chair and explain why as the point guard him deciding to dropping off a pass for Kyle O'Quinn who is a poor three point shooter... to take a three at the top of the key 6 seconds into a shot clock is seen as perfectly ok in his head... yet him taking an open three at any stage of a shot clock isn't. Maybe he needs a hypnotherapist to convince him he is Steph.

[MVP1992]

I'd rather see him pull up for a 3 then follow the shot for a possible rebound/put-back than drive in halfway, stop, look away from the basket and pass backwards to an unsuspecting trailing player.

[phillynative]

Seriously, I have been on a few forums for a few different teams for a number of years, but damn, the 76ers fans are hard to please, already talking about trading their PG given a 5-0 start.
That’s why we can’t have nice things, we are ****!


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If it was any other player you wouldnt be so tight. When a player hurts their team chances of going to the next level ofcourse fans are going to talk about it. It goes with a any player with a high salery and expectations. If he wasnt important piece no one would care.

[shlo]

I wonder if he's more focused on free throws rather than actually shooting jumpers right now? Maybe in his mind IF he can find a consistent stroke from the FT line, he will then be able to use it as a jumper moving forward? The two he hit late in Portland looked very decent and is a new form he developed over the summer so hopefully he continues to hit them and improves his average.

In closing Ben will do what he's able to get away with. If Brett isn't willing to put his foot down and demand some jumpers from Ben then Ben isn't likely to change imo.

Well he's only shooting 52% from the line, which is the lowest of his career. He did go 4-5 against Portland so maybe that's a good sign... or just good luck.

[snoopdogg88]

I’ve always been Ben’s biggest fan, but now I’m starting to come around. I’ve seen zero development in his game this season. It’s disturbing. For the #1 overall pick there is very little assertiveness in his game.

The “taller Rondo” comparisons might have been more accurate than we had hoped.
He’s still a damn good player, but an extremely exploitable one and not the perennial MVP candidate we had hoped for.

[kio80]

Come on now guys, let’s see what happens tonight. Honestly, I have lost a little faith, but it’s the guy’s third year after all. He’s no Luka, but he’s an all star PG that compliments our defense, as much as it hurts our offense, it’s an even trade off, it’s probably time for us to lower our expectation a little.


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[Bum Adebayo]

At some point we have to accept Ben for what he is. And this means putting him against PGs on defense and letting him attack smaller opponents at the post with 4 guys spacing the floor.

This means less post plays for Embiid when Ben is on the court.

Because the kind of game Ben plays against the Hawks and the Blazers can’t continue. Unless you want him to be invisible again during the playoffs.

No, we don't have to accept Ben for what he is, because his talent is out of this world. When you had a guy like Mcconnell it was clear you couldn't ask more from him, he was just not capable of more due to his limited talent. Ben's talent is ridiculous and while he is a solid player overall, he is vastly underperforming relative to his talent. Yes, he can do much more than what he is doing right now.

[snoopdogg88]

Technically it’s Bens 4th season, which doesn’t help his case in terms of lack of improvement

[Negrodamus]

Ben's value moving forward is as a role player in half court offense. The more we lean on him to be on ball at all times, the more we will be anemic on that end.

[VDT]

The problem is that as a roleplayer you need to either space the floor or play center.

[XtremeDunkz]

Ben's value moving forward is as a role player in half court offense. The more we lean on him to be on ball at all times, the more we will be anemic on that end.

A role player who consistently makes our best players job harder by dragging his defender into the paint allowing Embiid to be easily doubled.

[Negrodamus]

All valid points that Brett needs to figure out. I don't think it was ever realistic to believe Ben was going to become even a reasonable shooter at this level, so none of this should be a surprise to anyone if we're being honest.

[Bum Adebayo]

All valid points that Brett needs to figure out. I don't think it was ever realistic to believe Ben was going to become even a reasonable shooter at this level, so none of this should be a surprise to anyone if we're being honest.

Maybe not, but I am sure it was reasonable to think he would try to become one, which is not really the case, dude doesn't give a ****.

[Negrodamus]

All valid points that Brett needs to figure out. I don't think it was ever realistic to believe Ben was going to become even a reasonable shooter at this level, so none of this should be a surprise to anyone if we're being honest.

Maybe not, but I am sure it was reasonable to think he would try to become one, which is not really the case, dude doesn't give a ****.

I don't follow his every move, but he could be shooting all day every day in the summer. There's not too much you can do with that form. He's committed to shooting that way and I don't think he'll ever be able to adjust it enough to where he's a decent shooter. Hope I'm wrong.

[Bum Adebayo]

All valid points that Brett needs to figure out. I don't think it was ever realistic to believe Ben was going to become even a reasonable shooter at this level, so none of this should be a surprise to anyone if we're being honest.

Maybe not, but I am sure it was reasonable to think he would try to become one, which is not really the case, dude doesn't give a ****.

I don't follow his every move, but he could be shooting all day every day in the summer. There's not too much you can do with that form. He's committed to shooting that way and I don't think he'll ever be able to adjust it enough to where he's a decent shooter. Hope I'm wrong.

There is a thing he can do. Try to shoot in games. Is that really too much?
The form on that shot he made in preseason looked decent to me, decent enough to not be an embarrassment to try to shoot.
We can't blame him if he starts shooting and results ain't there. But we want to see some sort of attempt on his part to show us he is trying to improve his outside shot. Maybe he is this hard working guy in the gym, but what's the point if he is not going to shoot in games? may as well focus on other parts of his game and forget practicing jump shots.

[AI_Efficiency]

I think I mentioned this before in a game thread, but this was Nate Silver discussing how Simmons rates as average impact using their new methodology. The eye test says Simmons is much better than just average, but I do think it probably overrates his impact a bit. Simmons is still young, so there is plenty of time for him to improve, bu the "all star" title probably misrepresents how much he actually helps us.

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natesilver: Even just having the credible threat of a wide-open three is important. His low free-throw percentage makes me wonder how realistic even that low bar is, though.

It’s not that Simmons is a bad player, by the way. It’s just that this narrative of the 76ers having two emerging stars in Embiid and Simmons isn’t right. They have one already emerged star in Embiid and one player who’s roughly league average in Simmons, who might or might not develop into something considerably better than that but plugs into the modern NBA in a slightly funny way for now.

[Kobblehead]

Youth isn't always indicative of "upside left to fufill". Ben Simmons is the same player right now that he probably was at Montverde.

[VDT]

In retrospect it might have been bad for Simmons development that he was drafted by a team with a more established first option because it made him more complacent.

Had he been drafted by a typical lottery team with no other star, he would have been forced to find ways to up his scoring volume.

[MVP1992]

I'll cut to the chase; It's now on the coach.

If Brett Brown wants him to shoot, then demand he shoot. Set plays that demand he shoot.

If he won't, park it on the bench. If he sulks, hit the showers.

If I ignored the wishes of my coach & played like he does as tall for age group point guard back in my junior days, I'd be parked as a SF or benched. Shoot it or lose it.


I also had a decent old school hard arse coach who taught ball skills and shooting form from age 9 onwards. If you didn't do your drills and show improvement in form, or at least try, you ran suicides and did squats for attitude adjustment. Bit late for all that I know. BUT NOT too late for an attitude adjustment.