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Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It?

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#201 » by AirP. » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:54 pm

MadD23 wrote:
I might be wrong, but I believe Justise makes this team worst. He is too much of a liability most games on offense and that allows the other team to play more efficient D against us. He also tends to want to dominate the ball and I just don't see how that's good for us. Of course he'll get 7 assists per game playing PG most of the game, is that really considered good? Tyler had 7 assists last night and barely handled the ball. The same with Bam, he is averaging over 5 assists and he barely initiates offense. And yes I know, Justise is a Dog defensively but does he really make us a better team?

I am still open minded and will give him at least until the AllStar Break before I pass my final judgment on him, but for some reason, every time he misses games, this team plays better. Winslow needs to become a consistant offensive weapon or else, he'll always be our weakest link and opponents will take full advantage of it when game planing against us.


Yeah, I'm not on the Justice bandwagon, definitely not on the Justice PG bandwagon(you can be a playmaker from any position, especially in this offense). He's great defensively and is a solid playmaker for others but he just isn't where he should be offensively when he's looking to make plays for others. Looking at players as core players vs roleplayers, Justice was a -6 in ORTG-DRTG last year and is -9 this year. If you look at Bam he was a +16 last year and this year +27, Bam has always been a pretty high positive each year in the league while Justice has not. Maybe it's too small of a sample size this year to be this harsh but honestly I don't get the need/want to push him to PG. Let Nunn have that spot.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#202 » by fouled out boy » Mon Nov 4, 2019 3:56 pm

Last game Heat looked like an 82-0 team and a dynasty
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#203 » by contract » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:16 pm

Bishop45 wrote:Plenty of teams reached the conference finals without a second star, and Dragic's easily a near caliber star

Post was made to provoke reactions, and it was/will be effective.

We're a young team that's going to do young team things. Enjoy it.

No it wasn't. I always try to slam the breaks on runaway hype. And I know that it pisses some people off, but runaway hype is dangerous. For an example you just have to look across town to the UM football team. After Tate Martell transferred here after getting beat out at Ohio St, a lot of fans convinced themselves that our QB problems were solved and we were going to be a top team again. That was nonsense. We had one QB that had completed a meaningful pass in a meaningful game (Perry) and he was subpar. All that hype led to a lot of fans wanting to fire Manny Diaz 3 or 4 games into his first season as head coach. That's insane, but that what happens when expectations get out of hand. The people getting carried away now, will be the same people calling for Spo's head when all these average players start playing like average players. That's why I made it a point to highlight the lack of top level talent on this team.

Hype feeds on itself. People get drunk on it. This is the sports equivalent of beer goggles. Last time even Pat Riley got drunk on it and we're still paying off those contracts. People convince themselves that a guy like Kendrick Nunn is going to be a star, when realistically he is going to level off at a level somewhere below Dion Waiters. He simply doesn't have the physical talent to maintain the kind of production that he started out with. Linsantity wasn't that long ago. Neither was our scrappy team that was winning on the efforts of Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Eventually pumpkins turn back into pumpkins.

Runaway euphoria leads to irrational anger.

I'm fine with people enjoying our great play. I'm enjoying it. I just don't want fans losing their minds and confusing Leonard Meyers and Duncan Robinson for Dirk Nowitzki and Larry Bird. I don't want fans confusing Justise Winslow for Jimmy Butler and Jimmy Butler for Kawhi Leonard.

I don't post to draw a reaction. Once in a while I draw a reaction because I tend to try to counterbalance the conversation when I think things are getting out of hand.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#204 » by MadD23 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:39 pm

AirP. wrote:
MadD23 wrote:
I might be wrong, but I believe Justise makes this team worst. He is too much of a liability most games on offense and that allows the other team to play more efficient D against us. He also tends to want to dominate the ball and I just don't see how that's good for us. Of course he'll get 7 assists per game playing PG most of the game, is that really considered good? Tyler had 7 assists last night and barely handled the ball. The same with Bam, he is averaging over 5 assists and he barely initiates offense. And yes I know, Justise is a Dog defensively but does he really make us a better team?

I am still open minded and will give him at least until the AllStar Break before I pass my final judgment on him, but for some reason, every time he misses games, this team plays better. Winslow needs to become a consistant offensive weapon or else, he'll always be our weakest link and opponents will take full advantage of it when game planing against us.


Yeah, I'm not on the Justice bandwagon, definitely not on the Justice PG bandwagon(you can be a playmaker from any position, especially in this offense). He's great defensively and is a solid playmaker for others but he just isn't where he should be offensively when he's looking to make plays for others. Looking at players as core players vs roleplayers, Justice was a -6 in ORTG-DRTG last year and is -9 this year. If you look at Bam he was a +16 last year and this year +27, Bam has always been a pretty high positive each year in the league while Justice has not. Maybe it's too small of a sample size this year to be this harsh but honestly I don't get the need/want to push him to PG. Let Nunn have that spot.



I feel the exact same way. We need a good offensive player that can space the floor next to Butler and Nunn in the starting lineup so our offense can be more fluid. Our Offense looked so good last night against the Rockets. Winslow would make a much bigger impact coming off the bench with Dragic and Herro. And yes, trading him and getting some value might be something to consider by the Allstar break if Winslow doesn't develop a consistent offensive game that erases his weaknesses.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#205 » by twix2500 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:42 pm

twix2500 wrote:Miami Team Stats
14th in Offensive Ratings (106.6)
7th in Effecitve Field Goal Percentage
3rd in 3 Pointers Percentage
8th in 3 Pointers Made

Pace at 106
1st in turnovers at 20 per game
26th in fastbreak points per game. (10 per game)


7th in Defensive Ratings (99.3)
3rd in Steals
2nd in Blocks
11th in Rebounds
12th in Rebound Percentage


Last night the Heat had 25 fastbreak points moving up their season average to 12 per game.
15 turnovers last night.
Pace was at 109




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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#206 » by caliban » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:48 pm

After contract year Whiteside, Waiter and JJ I'd avoid Drummond at all cost.

Can't see Bam and Drummond fit together.
Don't want big sallery at the C position.
I want space in summer 21

Drummond is no imo.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#207 » by twix2500 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:54 pm

caliban wrote:After contract year Whiteside, Waiter and JJ I'd avoid Drummond at all cost.

Can't see Bam and Drummond fit together.
Don't want big sallery at the C position.
I want space in summer 21

Drummond is no imo.
Miami will not wait for free agency for a star. They are gonna add a second star via trade if the team keeps playing like this. If this pace as a team as a whole continues, I wouldn't be surprised Wiz are comfortable pulling the trigger with Beal to Miami at the all star break or this summer. One reason why, they gonna want to keep their bird rights to resign their own players who do not get traded.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#208 » by Kobewade11 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 4:57 pm

Winslow haters again :roll:
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#209 » by Bourne85 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:02 pm

It’s no secret the team plays better without Winslow. Too much of an offensive liability. Feel bad for him too, he was set on being the teams starting PG, but the Heat ain’t having Nunn of that!

I don’t like Robinson starting but at least the kid is a knock down shooter. Can’t leave him open, same for Herro. Things get too crowded when Winslow in the game and they don’t respect his shot.

If we make any trades, Winslow will be the center piece of it. We may even just use Winslow to get rid of Waiters as long as we get something good decent in return (pick, player).

DJJ or JJ? One of them is not gonna see many minutes. I feel like Spo will go with JJ. I expect one of these two included in any Waiters deal as well.

The Heat have some things to clear up. In a perfect world Waiters is happy with his bench role and we are extremely deep. But he is not happy. And a trade will likely come.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#210 » by caliban » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:05 pm

twix2500 wrote:
caliban wrote:After contract year Whiteside, Waiter and JJ I'd avoid Drummond at all cost.

Can't see Bam and Drummond fit together.
Don't want big sallery at the C position.
I want space in summer 21

Drummond is no imo.
Miami will not wait for free agency for a star. They are gonna add a second star via trade if the team keeps playing like this. If this pace as a team as a whole continues, I wouldn't be surprised Wiz are comfortable pulling the trigger with Beal to Miami at the all star break or this summer. One reason why, they gonna want to keep their bird rights to resign their own players who do not get traded.

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Agreed that is what they want to do and that Beal would be ideal even tho I consider the chances slim.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#211 » by contract » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:11 pm

twix2500 wrote:
caliban wrote:After contract year Whiteside, Waiter and JJ I'd avoid Drummond at all cost.

Can't see Bam and Drummond fit together.
Don't want big sallery at the C position.
I want space in summer 21

Drummond is no imo.
Miami will not wait for free agency for a star. They are gonna add a second star via trade if the team keeps playing like this. If this pace as a team as a whole continues, I wouldn't be surprised Wiz are comfortable pulling the trigger with Beal to Miami at the all star break or this summer. One reason why, they gonna want to keep their bird rights to resign their own players who do not get traded.

Beal can't be traded for 6 months ... which mean that he can't be traded until after the trade deadline ... which means he can't be traded until the offseason.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#212 » by twix2500 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:12 pm

contract wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
caliban wrote:After contract year Whiteside, Waiter and JJ I'd avoid Drummond at all cost.

Can't see Bam and Drummond fit together.
Don't want big sallery at the C position.
I want space in summer 21

Drummond is no imo.
Miami will not wait for free agency for a star. They are gonna add a second star via trade if the team keeps playing like this. If this pace as a team as a whole continues, I wouldn't be surprised Wiz are comfortable pulling the trigger with Beal to Miami at the all star break or this summer. One reason why, they gonna want to keep their bird rights to resign their own players who do not get traded.

Beal can't be traded for 6 months ... which mean that he can't be traded until after the trade deadline ... which means he can't be traded until the offseason.
Well the summer it is. Which will give the Heat a chance to use their draft pick as a pawn. Then resign Dragic after getting Beal

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#213 » by AirP. » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:14 pm

kobewade11 wrote:Winslow haters again :roll:

Hater no, realist yes. For a person who said you can now call him a sniper, he's been anything but in games. Great defensively, great vision, great passing, not so much on shooting and definitely not taking advantage of his size at PG near the basket.

.489, .399, .496, .513, .431
Those are J.Winslow's TS% for each year in the league, from rookie to current season. The 3rd worst TS% team in the league this season matches Winslow's best year at .513, the worst team in the league currently, Orlando is shooting .480 TS%.

How many Miami players currently have a better TS% then Winslow... all of them. 9 players have a TS% of .562 or higher, only Butler, Olynyk and Winslow are at .492 or lower, the difference is 2 of those are career wise MUCH better TS% then what their current stats show, Winslow not so much.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#214 » by MadD23 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:20 pm

Bourne85 wrote:It’s no secret the team plays better without Winslow. Too much of an offensive liability. Feel bad for him too, he was set on being the teams starting PG, but the Heat ain’t having Nunn of that!

I don’t like Robinson starting but at least the kid is a knock down shooter. Can’t leave him open, same for Herro. Things get too crowded when Winslow in the game and they don’t respect his shot.

If we make any trades, Winslow will be the center piece of it. We may even just use Winslow to get rid of Waiters as long as we get something good decent in return (pick, player).

DJJ or JJ? One of them is not gonna see many minutes. I feel like Spo will go with JJ. I expect one of these two included in any Waiters deal as well.

The Heat have some things to clear up. In a perfect world Waiters is happy with his bench role and we are extremely deep. But he is not happy. And a trade will likely come.


That's the main issue right there. Without a respectable offensive game, Winslow does more bad than good in the starting lineup. Spo has some weird love affair with him and will continue to treat him like a star. We are gonna have to live with it until Riley does something about it or Winslow start proving us wrong. In 5 years, he hasn't.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#215 » by MadD23 » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:24 pm

AirP. wrote:
kobewade11 wrote:Winslow haters again :roll:

Hater no, realist yes. For a person who said you can now call him a sniper, he's been anything but in games. Great defensively, great vision, great passing, not so much on shooting and definitely not taking advantage of his size at PG near the basket.

.489, .399, .496, .513, .431
Those are J.Winslow's TS% for each year in the league, from rookie to current season. The 3rd worst TS% team in the league this season matches Winslow's best year at .513, the worst team in the league currently, Orlando is shooting .480 TS%.

How many Miami players currently have a better TS% then Winslow... all of them. 9 players have a TS% of .562 or higher, only Butler, Olynyk and Winslow are at .492 or lower, the difference is 2 of those are career wise MUCH better TS% then what their current stats show, Winslow not so much.


Since when did Winslow became this untouchable God that should be exempt from criticism? What has he done to deserve such privilege?
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#216 » by AirP. » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:27 pm

MadD23 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
kobewade11 wrote:Winslow haters again :roll:

Hater no, realist yes. For a person who said you can now call him a sniper, he's been anything but in games. Great defensively, great vision, great passing, not so much on shooting and definitely not taking advantage of his size at PG near the basket.

.489, .399, .496, .513, .431
Those are J.Winslow's TS% for each year in the league, from rookie to current season. The 3rd worst TS% team in the league this season matches Winslow's best year at .513, the worst team in the league currently, Orlando is shooting .480 TS%.

How many Miami players currently have a better TS% then Winslow... all of them. 9 players have a TS% of .562 or higher, only Butler, Olynyk and Winslow are at .492 or lower, the difference is 2 of those are career wise MUCH better TS% then what their current stats show, Winslow not so much.


Since when did Winslow became this untouchable God that should be exempt from criticism? What has he done to deserve such privilege?

It's the same thing I saw in Minnesota with Wiggins, so much hope was put onto the development of a player that was taken fairly high in the draft that any good games were seen as "this is the year they're breaking thru and becoming that really good player we always hoped for". Hopefully it happens, I doubt he'll change enough offensively to a big plus for the team(with big minutes).
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#217 » by Dr_Heat » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:29 pm

LoL, you guys are something else. Just enjoy this
5-1 start and leave the trading/benching to Spo and Riley. Riley knows what he is doing.

Now with that “ let’s go Heat” . Let’s go get some gold nuggets
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#218 » by AirP. » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:31 pm

Dr_Heat wrote:LoL, you guys are something else. Just enjoy this
5-1 start and leave the trading/benching to Spo and Riley. Riley knows what he is doing.

Now with that “ let’s go Heat” . Let’s go get some gold nuggets

Some of us expected Miami to be good and you can always get better, once you quit getting better you end up falling behind.

Yes, Riley and Spo knows what they're doing, that's why I still expect a big move(or 2) this season.

This franchise has a really good FO and coaching staff, the same can't be said of most teams.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#219 » by eddieheatfan » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:33 pm

contract wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:Plenty of teams reached the conference finals without a second star, and Dragic's easily a near caliber star

Post was made to provoke reactions, and it was/will be effective.

We're a young team that's going to do young team things. Enjoy it.

No it wasn't. I always try to slam the breaks on runaway hype. And I know that it pisses some people off, but runaway hype is dangerous. For an example you just have to look across town to the UM football team. After Tate Martell transferred here after getting beat out at Ohio St, a lot of fans convinced themselves that our QB problems were solved and we were going to be a top team again. That was nonsense. We had one QB that had completed a meaningful pass in a meaningful game (Perry) and he was subpar. All that hype led to a lot of fans wanting to fire Manny Diaz 3 or 4 games into his first season as head coach. That's insane, but that what happens when expectations get out of hand. The people getting carried away now, will be the same people calling for Spo's head when all these average players start playing like average players. That's why I made it a point to highlight the lack of top level talent on this team.

Hype feeds on itself. People get drunk on it. This is the sports equivalent of beer goggles. Last time even Pat Riley got drunk on it and we're still paying off those contracts. People convince themselves that a guy like Kendrick Nunn is going to be a star, when realistically he is going to level off at a level somewhere below Dion Waiters. He simply doesn't have the physical talent to maintain the kind of production that he started out with. Linsantity wasn't that long ago. Neither was our scrappy team that was winning on the efforts of Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Eventually pumpkins turn back into pumpkins.

Runaway euphoria leads to irrational anger.

I'm fine with people enjoying our great play. I'm enjoying it. I just don't want fans losing their minds and confusing Leonard Meyers and Duncan Robinson for Dirk Nowitzki and Larry Bird. I don't want fans confusing Justise Winslow for Jimmy Butler and Jimmy Butler for Kawhi Leonard.

I don't post to draw a reaction. Once in a while I draw a reaction because I tend to try to counterbalance the conversation when I think things are getting out of hand.



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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#220 » by Beenie » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:35 pm

contract wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:Plenty of teams reached the conference finals without a second star, and Dragic's easily a near caliber star

Post was made to provoke reactions, and it was/will be effective.

We're a young team that's going to do young team things. Enjoy it.

No it wasn't. I always try to slam the breaks on runaway hype. And I know that it pisses some people off, but runaway hype is dangerous. For an example you just have to look across town to the UM football team. After Tate Martell transferred here after getting beat out at Ohio St, a lot of fans convinced themselves that our QB problems were solved and we were going to be a top team again. That was nonsense. We had one QB that had completed a meaningful pass in a meaningful game (Perry) and he was subpar. All that hype led to a lot of fans wanting to fire Manny Diaz 3 or 4 games into his first season as head coach. That's insane, but that what happens when expectations get out of hand. The people getting carried away now, will be the same people calling for Spo's head when all these average players start playing like average players. That's why I made it a point to highlight the lack of top level talent on this team.

Hype feeds on itself. People get drunk on it. This is the sports equivalent of beer goggles. Last time even Pat Riley got drunk on it and we're still paying off those contracts. People convince themselves that a guy like Kendrick Nunn is going to be a star, when realistically he is going to level off at a level somewhere below Dion Waiters. He simply doesn't have the physical talent to maintain the kind of production that he started out with. Linsantity wasn't that long ago. Neither was our scrappy team that was winning on the efforts of Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Eventually pumpkins turn back into pumpkins.

Runaway euphoria leads to irrational anger.

I'm fine with people enjoying our great play. I'm enjoying it. I just don't want fans losing their minds and confusing Leonard Meyers and Duncan Robinson for Dirk Nowitzki and Larry Bird. I don't want fans confusing Justise Winslow for Jimmy Butler and Jimmy Butler for Kawhi Leonard.

I don't post to draw a reaction. Once in a while I draw a reaction because I tend to try to counterbalance the conversation when I think things are getting out of hand.



Sobering post. Though I tend to agree with your general thesis about the team's talent, I'm unwilling to swing in the opposite direction on assessing the young players like Nunn just yet. We won't really have a good idea what he can become until perhaps after a season's worth of data and analytics can be gathered, and even then it perhaps would still be premature to render a conclusion.

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