Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It?

Kobewade11 · Post #221 » by **Kobewade11** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:36 pm

AirP. wrote:
kobewade11 wrote:Winslow haters again

Hater no, realist yes. For a person who said you can now call him a sniper, he's been anything but in games. Great defensively, great vision, great passing, not so much on shooting and definitely not taking advantage of his size at PG near the basket.

.489, .399, .496, .513, .431
Those are J.Winslow's TS% for each year in the league, from rookie to current season. The 3rd worst TS% team in the league this season matches Winslow's best year at .513, the worst team in the league currently, Orlando is shooting .480 TS%.

How many Miami players currently have a better TS% then Winslow... all of them. 9 players have a TS% of .562 or higher, only Butler, Olynyk and Winslow are at .492 or lower, the difference is 2 of those are career wise MUCH better TS% then what their current stats show, Winslow not so much.

He’s played 3 or 4 games. Its a new unit. Stop looking for bogeymen, root for our guys to be their best selves and enjoy the damn ride. I’ll never understand the constant need to witch hunt players from this fanbase, particulary the guys that show up, represent the team well and do their jobs.

AirP. · Post #222 » by **AirP.** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:37 pm

For those who care...

WINGING IT Podcast

Jimmy Butler on the Miami Heat, Work Ethic, Baking, and Longevity in the NBA
For our first episode of the new season, Butler stops by to talk about his new city

https://www.theringer.com/winging-it

AirP. · Post #223 » by **AirP.** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:40 pm

kobewade11 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
kobewade11 wrote:Winslow haters again

Hater no, realist yes. For a person who said you can now call him a sniper, he's been anything but in games. Great defensively, great vision, great passing, not so much on shooting and definitely not taking advantage of his size at PG near the basket.

.489, .399, .496, .513, .431
Those are J.Winslow's TS% for each year in the league, from rookie to current season. The 3rd worst TS% team in the league this season matches Winslow's best year at .513, the worst team in the league currently, Orlando is shooting .480 TS%.

How many Miami players currently have a better TS% then Winslow... all of them. 9 players have a TS% of .562 or higher, only Butler, Olynyk and Winslow are at .492 or lower, the difference is 2 of those are career wise MUCH better TS% then what their current stats show, Winslow not so much.

He’s played 3 or 4 games. Its a new unit. Stop looking for bogeymen, root for our guys to be their best selves and enjoy the damn ride. I’ll never understand the constant need to witch hunt players from this fanbase, particulary the guys that show up, represent the team well and do their jobs.

I'm looking at history repeating itself for a player. I heard the same arguments from Minnesota fans with Wiggins because at the time Minnesota was the 3rd seed with Butler (this is great, look how good we're doign), but just looking at the statistics you could see how much Wiggins was hold them back EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE HAVING SUCCESS AT THE TIME, luckily for Miami Justice is on a solid contract.

Post #224 » by **BFRESH44** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:41 pm

Did we not just see the team beat Milwakuee in their building with no Jimmy, with Winslow's point of attack defense, play making, and rebounding being an instrumental part in securing that victory? I'm pretty sure we did.

MadD23 · Post #225 » by **MadD23** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:42 pm

Oh I am enjoying the season, having a lot of fun. But it's not a Sin to discuss some basketball related stuff in here right?

Bishop45 · Post #226 » by **Bishop45** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:43 pm

contract wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:Plenty of teams reached the conference finals without a second star, and Dragic's easily a near caliber star

Post was made to provoke reactions, and it was/will be effective.

We're a young team that's going to do young team things. Enjoy it.

No it wasn't. I always try to slam the breaks on runaway hype. And I know that it pisses some people off, but runaway hype is dangerous. For an example you just have to look across town to the UM football team. After Tate Martell transferred here after getting beat out at Ohio St, a lot of fans convinced themselves that our QB problems were solved and we were going to be a top team again. That was nonsense. We had one QB that had completed a meaningful pass in a meaningful game (Perry) and he was subpar. All that hype led to a lot of fans wanting to fire Manny Diaz 3 or 4 games into his first season as head coach. That's insane, but that what happens when expectations get out of hand. The people getting carried away now, will be the same people calling for Spo's head when all these average players start playing like average players. That's why I made it a point to highlight the lack of top level talent on this team.

Hype feeds on itself. People get drunk on it. This is the sports equivalent of beer goggles. Last time even Pat Riley got drunk on it and we're still paying off those contracts. People convince themselves that a guy like Kendrick Nunn is going to be a star, when realistically he is going to level off at a level somewhere below Dion Waiters. He simply doesn't have the physical talent to maintain the kind of production that he started out with. Linsantity wasn't that long ago. Neither was our scrappy team that was winning on the efforts of Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Eventually pumpkins turn back into pumpkins.

Runaway euphoria leads to irrational anger.

I'm fine with people enjoying our great play. I'm enjoying it. I just don't want fans losing their minds and confusing Leonard Meyers and Duncan Robinson for Dirk Nowitzki and Larry Bird. I don't want fans confusing Justise Winslow for Jimmy Butler and Jimmy Butler for Kawhi Leonard.

I don't post to draw a reaction. Once in a while I draw a reaction because I tend to try to counterbalance the conversation when I think things are getting out of hand.

I understand wanting to temper expectations, but simply going on the offensive cause fans are happy seems kind of screwed up.

At least be specific with comments, so people know you're arguing on good faith; cause I don't think anyone said any of those things you mentioned there

AirP. · Post #227 » by **AirP.** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:44 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:Did we not just see the team beat Milwakuee in their building with, with Winslow's point of attack defense, play making, and rebounding being an instrumental part in securing that victory? I'm pretty sure we did.

And Minnesota fans have seen Wiggins have great games here and there, hell, he got hot and beat Miami this year. What's your point, players can have great games here and there?

Maybe Justice should go to the low post some to utilize his height at PG? Maybe he needs to look for his offense a little more? I just didn't get this Justice should play PG narrative, he can make plays at SF.

Dr_Heat · Post #228 » by **Dr_Heat** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:45 pm

MadD23 wrote:Oh I am enjoying the season, having a lot of fun. But it's not a Sin to discuss some basketball related stuff in here right?

Not at all, keep on typing away. Now let’s go and makes this record 6-1 :rock:

Kobewade11 · Post #229 » by **Kobewade11** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:46 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:Did we not just see the team beat Milwakuee in their building with no Jimmy, with Winslow's point of attack defense, play making, and rebounding being an instrumental part in securing that victory? I'm pretty sure we did.

Its like talking under water

Post #230 » by **BFRESH44** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:47 pm

AirP. wrote:
BFRESH44 wrote:Did we not just see the team beat Milwakuee in their building with, with Winslow's point of attack defense, play making, and rebounding being an instrumental part in securing that victory? I'm pretty sure we did.

And Minnesota fans have seen Wiggins have great games here and there, hell, he got hot and beat Miami this year. What's your point, players can have great games here and there?

And let's not draw parallels between Justise Winslow and Andrew Wiggins. First of all one of those is an excellent defender and competes his ass off, and is on a 3 year 33 million extension. The other is a 6'8' Dion Waiters on a max deal. It's not the same.

Justise Winslow finished last year as a top 6 small forward in DRPM. He's one of the best wing defenders in basketball. That is not an opinion, that is a fact backed by data. Andrew Wiggins is not tops in anything. And is paid like a superstar.

Bishop45 · Post #231 » by **Bishop45** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:48 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:Did we not just see the team beat Milwakuee in their building with no Jimmy, with Winslow's point of attack defense, play making, and rebounding being an instrumental part in securing that victory? I'm pretty sure we did.

You can tell who don't hoop when we're using the same parochial stats to measure on court impact

MadD23 · Post #232 » by **MadD23** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:48 pm

Dr_Heat wrote:
MadD23 wrote:Oh I am enjoying the season, having a lot of fun. But it's not a Sin to discuss some basketball related stuff in here right?

Not at all, keep on typing away. Now let’s go and makes this record 6-1

Yes sir! Let's GO!!!

AirP. · Post #233 » by **AirP.** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:54 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
BFRESH44 wrote:Did we not just see the team beat Milwakuee in their building with, with Winslow's point of attack defense, play making, and rebounding being an instrumental part in securing that victory? I'm pretty sure we did.

And Minnesota fans have seen Wiggins have great games here and there, hell, he got hot and beat Miami this year. What's your point, players can have great games here and there?

And let's not draw parallels between Justise Winslow and Andrew Wiggins. First of all one of those is an excellent defender and competes his ass off, and is on a 3 year 33 million extension. The other is a 6'8' Dion Waiters on a max deal. It's not the same.

Justise Winslow finished last year as a top 6 small forward in DRPM. He's one of the best wing defenders in basketball. That is not an opinion, that is a fact backed by data. Andrew Wiggins is not tops in anything. And is paid like a superstar.

Absolutely, Justise is in a different world vs Wiggins on defense, I'll take Justice over Wiggins as a player every time even if they were paid the same. I compare them because a certain portion of the fan base seem to put so much hope into a player that they refuse to see the overall player instead of the glimmer of light in hopes they're finally becoming a good or great player. Yes Justice will have great games, but not all that often and when you look at the advanced numbers you see how often that really is.

If Justice had a history of being a more efficient scorer you give him the benefit of the doubt, but in his 5th year he's not even gotten close to NBA average efficiency.

I actually like Justice, but if you're wanting to go deep into the playoffs or get to the finals, you have to fix inefficiencies or find a way to hide them. Justice being a PG means he's going to end up shooting more. He shot nearly 14 FGA/36 last year and this year his FGA/36 rate is higher than that.

The real question is, with the starters do you want 3 shooters(Justice and Bam as non shooters) on the court or can Nunn, Butler, and Bam's playmaking be enough with 4 shooters(just Bam as a non shooter) on the court?

MadD23 · Post #234 » by **MadD23** » Mon Nov 4, 2019 5:58 pm

Bishop45 wrote:
BFRESH44 wrote:Did we not just see the team beat Milwakuee in their building with no Jimmy, with Winslow's point of attack defense, play making, and rebounding being an instrumental part in securing that victory? I'm pretty sure we did.

You can tell who don't hoop when we're using the same parochial stats to measure on court impact

I started hooping since I was 5 years old and played semi pro organized basketball. I helped my son become a pro basketball player in South America. Been watching Basketball religiously since the Magic Johnson and Bird era. So I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I am not a stat fanatic either but I agree with AirP, Winslow is not making our starting lineup better by just playing superb defense and getting some rebounds. Playing in the starting lineup with Bam who is another player who opposing defenders don't respect his outside game means our spacing becomes terrible. We broke a Heat scoring record last night in that first quarter in big part due to Duncan Robinson being an offensive weapon and spacer for the rest of our offense to flow.

Maybe if we play him at SF and he can start hitting those catch and shoot 3 pointers like he did in the past for us, could work better than him being a PG who can't finish layups or hit a mid range jumper and is terrible at the free-throw line. Or maybe he could be more of an asset playing with the second unit. That's all we I'm saying.