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GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST

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Re: GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST 

Post#81 » by doclinkin » Tue Nov 5, 2019 3:57 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:Since the organization wasted a year of Troy Brown Jrs development (thanks Ernie!) we have very little data on him at the NBA level.



This is the key sentence in all of the above. It is not yet time to decide who to play where and how long. We have Dean Oliver on staff and an advanced analytics team. We have to give them some data to work with. We need to be trying everything to see what works. Taking risks and making deliberate mistakes. It's way too early to talk about who has what role. Even Ginobili and Pop had to learn that with Manu's play style his best role was as a 6th man. But that innovation came from live-fire experience. We have some promising signs in how we have played so far. Players are learning. In truth I'm fine with a rotation like last night where players are earning 20 minutes each and the coach sticks with a hot hand. You want to learn the habits of success. If you are out there doing well you want to be rewarded with the PT and to groove the skill set that is keeping you on the floor. We are not playoff bound, we are in the sandbox learning how to play. We are beta testing these young players. There will be some surprising synergies and chemistry that emerges, and it is important that even with young players we salt in some experienced and skilled players to exemplify how to do it right.
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Re: GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST 

Post#82 » by nate33 » Tue Nov 5, 2019 4:04 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Since the organization wasted a year of Troy Brown Jrs development (thanks Ernie!) we have very little data on him at the NBA level.



This is the key sentence in all of the above. It is not yet time to decide who to play where and how long. We have Dean Oliver on staff and an advanced analytics team. We have to give them some data to work with. We need to be trying everything to see what works. Taking risks and making deliberate mistakes. It's way too early to talk about who has what role. Even Ginobili and Pop had to learn that with Manu's play style his best role was as a 6th man. But that innovation came from live-fire experience. We have some promising signs in how we have played so far. Players are learning. In truth I'm fine with a rotation like last night where players are earning 20 minutes each and the coach sticks with a hot hand. You want to learn the habits of success. If you are out there doing well you want to be rewarded with the PT and to groove the skill set that is keeping you on the floor. We are not playoff bound, we are in the sandbox learning how to play. We are beta testing these young players. There will be some surprising synergies and chemistry that emerges, and it is important that even with young players we salt in some experienced and skilled players to exemplify how to do it right.


Agree. For now, the rotations don't seem to be that hard. We've got 10 playable guys, two for each position. No big deal.

It might get a little dicey when McRae gets back. One deserving player is going to get squeezed out. But chances are, someone else will get hurt before that becomes a problem.

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Re: GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST 

Post#83 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Nov 5, 2019 4:18 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:The team is actually trying to win right now, which also doesn’t help with rotations.

Vets will get minutes over the young guys down the stretch and I expect Troy or CJ to be starting over Bonga very soon.
The word veteran doesn't make a player better. Right now in the NBA a guy like Eric paschall can't have a 36-point 13 rebound game as a rookie. On this Wizards team they may as well played Bonga, Brown Jr., Wagner and all the rest just as many minutes as the veterans because they're just as good.

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Paschall is also someone who's showing the positive about being a 23 year old rookie - those guys are generally closer to a finished product so you don't have to wait as long for them to be productive. He's actually older than his college and GS teammate - Omari Spellman. Both of them don't pass the eye test, but they can play - if they stay in shape. But I digress.
Good points.

Pascal is similarly prepared to make an instant impact as Draymond Green was. Having played four years of the highest level NCAA ball he knows how to grind. The NBA isn't a huge adjustment for him.

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Re: GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST 

Post#84 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Nov 5, 2019 4:45 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:The team is actually trying to win right now, which also doesn’t help with rotations.

Vets will get minutes over the young guys down the stretch and I expect Troy or CJ to be starting over Bonga very soon.
The word veteran doesn't make a player better. Right now in the NBA a guy like Eric paschall can't have a 36-point 13 rebound game as a rookie. On this Wizards team they may as well played Bonga, Brown Jr., Wagner and all the rest just as many minutes as the veterans because they're just as good.

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Paschall is also someone who's showing the positive about being a 23 year old rookie - those guys are generally closer to a finished product so you don't have to wait as long for them to be productive. He's actually older than his college and GS teammate - Omari Spellman. Both of them don't pass the eye test, but they can play - if they stay in shape. But I digress.
I liked Spellman at Villanova. I'm surprised that he didn't make an impact with the Hawks.

I think Spellman has landed in a much better spot. Just like the Wizards three young guys who the Lakers bailed on mighty early. They definitely gave up too soon on both Wagner and Bryant. Bonga is seemingly a player, too.

I have not been this enthusiastic about the Wizards roster. I mean this is the best day I've had in young talent since their Webber Howard teams. Unlike Wall, Beal, Porter these guys are not going to cost too much to build around. The benefit of having minimal contract prices is that depth can be developed.

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Re: GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST 

Post#85 » by trast66 » Tue Nov 5, 2019 5:08 pm

I like playing teams where our future suddenly looks better than theirs due to EG being gone. Detroit has Griffins contract to deal with (he still excellent when he plays but not for that $) and Drummond, who I think may be the most over rated player in league next to Russell Westbrook. If they resign him they are nuts. He made Bryant and Wagner look like defensive stoppers.
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Re: GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST 

Post#86 » by DCZards » Tue Nov 5, 2019 5:28 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:

4) Troy Brown Jr is a first round pick from the heralded 2018 class, and is certainly very prideful. He clearly believes he is a better player than Bonga and worthy of the starter's label like many of his draftmates , and I'd imagine most of his teammates agree with him. It's one thing to come off the bench behind an established vet like Otto, but Bonga? If Isaac continues to start over TB Jr, it's naive to think this won't cause simmering chemistry issues.


5) Winning cures all, but this team will most likely be doing a lot of losing so it won't be that easy to paper over internal friction if Brooks doesn't iron out defined roles now. Beal & Brown (even coming off the bench) should be your two most versatile, high IQ, consistent, non-negotiable 30+ mpg players who will always close out games. Rui, Bryant should be at least ~25-30mpg most of the time. Everyone else needs to be okay with their minutes fluctuating, depending on matchups and what skillset is needed at the time. Bertans/Miles for floor-spacing, IT/McRae for shot creation, Bonga for wing defense + hustle etc.. making these decisions is the hardest part of coaching

6) Since the organization wasted a year of Troy Brown Jrs development (thanks Ernie!) we have very little data on him at the NBA level. Imo this season should be centered around forcefeeding him minutes and observing what he can/can't do. He should lead our team in total minutes over Beal, we need to give him all opportunities to expand the limits of his game. TBJ is 1.5 years younger than Hachimura, at this point I'm not sure he won't end up our best longterm prospect. He has the potential to be a nightly triple-double threat in his prime, and if we see him starting to hit his threes and off-dribble Js then no telling what his ceiling could be.


I don't think it will be long before Brown becomes the starter. Wouldn't be surprised if he starts the next game. It's not simply that Brown believes he's better than Bonga, the fact is that he IS better than Bonga and everyone from the FO to the coaching staff to the players know that. More importantly though, Troy will be on the court at crunch time and get more minutes than Bonga (like he did against Detroit) whether he starts or not. I actually think you're making too much of the possibility of "internal friction." Most of these guys are young and have yet to earn any defined role.

Totally agree that Brown should have played many more minutes with the Zards last season. It was something I was screaming for since around the middle of last season. He certainly would have been further along in his develop. However, I wouldn't say that it was a "wasted" year of development. Troy did get a lot of playing time in the G League and there's a real value to that.

Like you, I'm excited about Brown's long-term prospects. His smarts, poise and diverse skillset is very, very impressive, especially for a 20 year old. We're all hyped about the potential and upside of Rui and Bryant, and rightfully so. But we shouldn't sleep on Troy.
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Re: GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST 

Post#87 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 6, 2019 2:32 am

No question Brown played too little last season -- but... it's not like he didn't play at all! 730 minutes of NBA play is non-trivial.

More importantly, he looks extremely good in his first 70 minutes this year: shooting great, rebounding like crazy, getting 3.5 steals per 40 minutes.
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Re: GameThread 6: Pistons @ Wizards - 7PM EST 

Post#88 » by smoothSeph » Wed Nov 6, 2019 5:39 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:The team is actually trying to win right now, which also doesn’t help with rotations.

Vets will get minutes over the young guys down the stretch and I expect Troy or CJ to be starting over Bonga very soon.
The word veteran doesn't make a player better. Right now in the NBA a guy like Eric paschall can't have a 36-point 13 rebound game as a rookie. On this Wizards team they may as well played Bonga, Brown Jr., Wagner and all the rest just as many minutes as the veterans because they're just as good.

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I don’t disagree with you, but we already saw it with CJ Miles first game back eating into young guys minutes. Wagner is having a good stretch of games but it wouldn’t at all surprise me if he hit a slump and Mahimni took his minutes when healthy.

I want guys like Bonga/Wagner to play as much as possible, even Rui. I do think Troys minutes are the safest right now.

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