Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88

[Ruben Quevedo]

For how "unrefined" his game is, it's absolutely incredible how good he is.

He can't really shoot. He has no dribble moves (cross over, in-and-out, hesitation) apart from straight line drives (with a spin counter) and euro-steps. His passing accuracy is erratic.

And he's damn near unstoppable.

Maybe you or someone can tell me this. Was it Tatum, or someone from Orlando? He crossed somebody and completely broke their ankles, Giannis just completely stopped from going to the basket, I think he was shocked. Giannis ended up waiting too long to drive and the defender recovered.

I think he has those moves but he's not comfortable using them because for the most part, the Euro step bull rush is still very effective. If he starts to incorporate a crossover or some sort of juke move prior to driving, he will start to limit the offensive foul calls he exposes himself to.

He's tried the cross-over move a couple times....I've seen it come off once or twice, but usually he loses either the ball or his balance. I think balance is actually an underrated weakness of his that's obvious when you watch him defend on the perimeter but actually has more negative impact on his offensive game.

I would start with the inside-out dribble....it's not that hard to do and it would be really effective against the brutes who can't change direction quickly. It's preferable to the spin move because he doesn't have to turn his back to the defense.

[Ruben Quevedo]

I don't know who finally got through to GIannis and had him get more arc on his free throws, but it's a thing of beauty. If he keeps that up, 75-80% is very likely.

I die a little more inside every time he slings one on a rope that clanks off the front rim.

More arc is not going to fix his free throw shooting, it will just change some of his short misses to left/right/long misses. His shot has always been lacking rhythm, not arc.

I disagree, arc will absolutely help as long as it's not excessive arc. A lot of his misses are short and flat, which gives you zero chance of making the shot. A shot that has a proper arc that hits the front of the rim, as a chance to roll over the front and go in.

I believe the change he made the past few games is going to help.

I'm skeptical. I think sometimes increasing arc actually just magnifies mechanical flaws.

The way Giannis misses suggests to me his problems are related to rhythm, muscle memory, and balance. He misses short quite often yes, but he misses *way* short, which to me is far more than an arc problem.

[Ron Swanson]

He has remarkable handles for a guy his size. I don't know if people understand how hard it is to maintain a tight dribble when your limbs are that long. I doubt he's gonna get any better there and it has nothing to do with skill level or practice, but rather the laws of physics.

[DingleJerry]

Of course there is more to his problem than arc alone, but in general in shooting Arc is better than flat for a number of reasons. His FTs could certainly use more arc so if that's been tweaked it's a good thing.

[Ruben Quevedo]

He has remarkable handles for a guy his size. I don't know if people understand how hard it is to maintain a tight dribble when your limbs are that long. I doubt he's gonna get any better there and it has nothing to do with skill level or practice, but rather the laws of physics.

Remarkable handles overstates things a bit. You're definitely right that he needs to be graded on a different curve. But I would reserve the word "remarkable" for guys like KD and Ben Simmons. Giannis is well behind those two.

[Ron Swanson]

Simmons isn't even comparable size-wise so KD is pretty much the only guy I'd say is clearly better, and he's literally a once-in-a-generation type in that regard.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

besides, dribbling through tight quarters in the paint, versus dribbling on the perimeter, are two totally different skill sets

[BuckFan25226]

More arc is not going to fix his free throw shooting, it will just change some of his short misses to left/right/long misses. His shot has always been lacking rhythm, not arc.

I disagree, arc will absolutely help as long as it's not excessive arc. A lot of his misses are short and flat, which gives you zero chance of making the shot. A shot that has a proper arc that hits the front of the rim, as a chance to roll over the front and go in.

I believe the change he made the past few games is going to help.

The way Giannis misses suggests to me his problems are related to rhythm, muscle memory, and balance. He misses short quite often yes, but he misses *way* short, which to me is far more than an arc problem.

I tend to agree with that side of the argument. However, I think his rhythm and overall motion has improved as well from this recent change. It's a bit more of a flick/fluid motion, and a straight up motion. I don't know why I just spent 5 minutes doing this, here are some comparisons to good 7 foot free throw shooters.

Here is Giannis last year against Toronto - The motion isn't fluid and his shooting arm drops down as he seems to push the ball more. As he is releasing it, and after releasing the ball, his shooting arm drops considerably.

Watch on YouTube

- Fast Forward to 1:10 seconds

Here is Toronto on Saturday - Smoother, higher release, more arc.

Watch on YouTube

- Fast Forward to 1:39 seconds

Similar to this big guy -

Watch on YouTube

- Fast Forward to 47 seconds

Or this guy -

Watch on YouTube

- Fast Forward to 1:41 seconds

[0BobLobLaw0]

I think part of the problem with Gainnis' shooting is that his hands are too dang big.

Probably not an apples to apples comparison, but when I shoot with a mini basketball, I shoot significantly worse than with a regular ball. There is less room for my hands to get a feel for the ball.

[dbrodz7]

I think part of the problem with Gainnis' shooting is that his hands are too dang big.

Probably not an apples to apples comparison, but when I shoot with a mini basketball, I shoot significantly worse than with a regular ball. There is less room for my hands to get a feel for the ball.

I have had this same thought before, but then I quickly decide that if I did nothing but try and shoot a mini ball my entire life I would get really damn good at it.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Simmons isn't even comparable size-wise so KD is pretty much the only guy I'd say is clearly better, and he's literally a once-in-a-generation type in that regard.

Is Simmons like a inch shorter? I think that is comparable.

[ampd]

I've said this for years and I think it bears repeating.

Giannis doesnt need to shoot 3s. It's way more important that he shoot free throws and improve his speed and decision making when facing double teams. And as of lately, reduce his unforced turnovers and offensive fouls.

I mean it would be great if he could shoot 40% from the arc, hed be literally the best player of all time. But he could reach that conversation anyway even if he never develops a 3 point shot.

[Ron Swanson]

Simmons isn't even comparable size-wise so KD is pretty much the only guy I'd say is clearly better, and he's literally a once-in-a-generation type in that regard.

Is Simmons like a inch shorter? I think that is comparable.

His arms are like 4-5 inches shorter. That's pretty significant. It's like comparing Magic Johnson to KG or Tim Duncan. You don't see 7-footers with actual guard handles for the same reason that you don't see offensive lineman run 4.3 40 times. Outside of KD, Giannis is one of the greatest perimeter ball-handlers at his size that we've ever seen.

[TroyD92]

I agree Simmons seems to compare physically to Lebron or Carmelo.

[soxperry]

I've said this for years and I think it bears repeating.

Giannis doesnt need to shoot 3s. It's way more important that he shoot free throws and improve his speed and decision making when facing double teams. And as of lately, reduce his unforced turnovers and offensive fouls.

I mean it would be great if he could shoot 40% from the arc, hed be literally the best player of all time. But he could reach that conversation anyway even if he never develops a 3 point shot.

I agree. With this in mind, i'll propose that it's vastly more important for Eric Bledsoe to develop a consistent 3 pointer than it is for Giannis when it comes to this team's playoff success.

[AussieBuck]

Giannis has a better handle than Durant. Durant has fancy crossovers that are more effective because he can have you off balance because he's likely to rise up and shoot. He can't dribble in traffic like Giannis. Dudes like Beverly give him hell hunting his dribble. Teams tried using their PG on Giannis ages ago in an attempt to stop him dribbling. It was a massive failure. Marcus Smart's full bag of flops is the only small guy defense that's had any success against Giannis.

[machu46]

I think part of the problem with Gainnis' shooting is that his hands are too dang big.

Probably not an apples to apples comparison, but when I shoot with a mini basketball, I shoot significantly worse than with a regular ball. There is less room for my hands to get a feel for the ball.

I don't think it helps, but he has more issues than just the size of his hands. He uses zero legs on his free throws and is almost always leaning away from the basket when he releases the ball (he does this on his jumper as well, but he's seemingly compensating for it pretty well so far this year and I don't really want to mess with his progress there).

[chonestown]

I think part of the problem with Gainnis' shooting is that his hands are too dang big.

Probably not an apples to apples comparison, but when I shoot with a mini basketball, I shoot significantly worse than with a regular ball. There is less room for my hands to get a feel for the ball.

I have had this same thought before, but then I quickly decide that if I did nothing but try and shoot a mini ball my entire life I would get really damn good at it.

Have Malcolm Gladwell shot into the sun

[engelmartin]

I think part of the problem with Gainnis' shooting is that his hands are too dang big.

Probably not an apples to apples comparison, but when I shoot with a mini basketball, I shoot significantly worse than with a regular ball. There is less room for my hands to get a feel for the ball.

I have had this same thought before, but then I quickly decide that if I did nothing but try and shoot a mini ball my entire life I would get really damn good at it.

Have Malcolm Gladwell shot into the sun

Well, I think Kawhi is the only guy with bigger hands than Giannis, and he's an amazing shooter.

[emunney]

I think part of the problem with Gainnis' shooting is that his hands are too dang big.

Probably not an apples to apples comparison, but when I shoot with a mini basketball, I shoot significantly worse than with a regular ball. There is less room for my hands to get a feel for the ball.

I don't think this is a great comparison since you've probably played almost exclusively with a normal ball your whole life. Like have you ever tried shooting with a giant ball, and if so, were you way better at it? I don't think hand-to-ball ratio is the determining factor here.