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Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc?

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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#41 » by MagicStarwipe » Fri Nov 8, 2019 4:45 am

Blue_and_Whte wrote:8 games in...not 20 or 30...EIGHT. And after playing a good game, against a good team on the road...and then creating a narrative that he came into camp out of shape, while dismissing the fact that he played a full NBA season, followed by FIBA and likely didnt have the time to rest that he did last off season. That's more than likely the scenario. but Ya'll couldn't WAIT for him to struggle a little. i get it. I guess that means Ross, DJ, AG, and Bamba must be out of shape since they're all playing like ass. Seems just as feasible.


Doesn't this lend to the narrative that he is out of shape though? If he's worn down from playing FIBA while other guys who also played FIBA (and played more than he did) are balling out, doesn't that suggest a lack of fitness? That's if fatigue is even the problem. That is just going by what Clifford said about him not having the type of offseason he had last year.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#42 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 7:07 am

Vučević plays " bad"
and is on a team:

1# points
1# rebounds
3rd in assists
second in blocks
1# free throw attemps
4th in free trow percentage
3rd in BPM
1# offensive win share
2# defensive win share
2# overall win share


What draggs his efficiency numbers down is his dreadful 3point percentage and shooting 30% from 10-16 feet , where he is career 44,2% shooter.
It's just matter of time when that will evan up to his career averages.

Other night, against Dallas we saw Clifford going back to what works, playing offense through him. Results 19 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists. And first game of a season where Magic cracked 100 points mark. No no coincidence. By the end of november Vučević will be old 20-11 guy because most of his "struggles" is him being in shooting slump in same time with others and result is this brickfest as team in general shoots 26% for 3.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#43 » by basketballRob » Fri Nov 8, 2019 11:05 am

pepe1991 wrote:Vučević plays " bad"
and is on a team:

1# points
1# rebounds
3rd in assists
second in blocks
1# free throw attemps
4th in free trow percentage
3rd in BPM
1# offensive win share
2# defensive win share
2# overall win share


What draggs his efficiency numbers down is his dreadful 3point percentage and shooting 30% from 10-16 feet , where he is career 44,2% shooter.
It's just matter of time when that will evan up to his career averages.

Other night, against Dallas we saw Clifford going back to what works, playing offense through him. Results 19 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists. And first game of a season where Magic cracked 100 points mark. No no coincidence. By the end of november Vučević will be old 20-11 guy because most of his "struggles" is him being in shooting slump in same time with others and result is this brickfest as team in general shoots 26% for 3.
It's not that Clifford went back to what works, Vuc finally made some shots. He's featured in our offense every game and has to be the leader in all the offensive categories.

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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#44 » by thelead » Fri Nov 8, 2019 11:59 am

pepe1991 wrote:Vučević plays " bad"
and is on a team:

1# points
1# rebounds
3rd in assists
second in blocks
1# free throw attemps
4th in free trow percentage
3rd in BPM
1# offensive win share
2# defensive win share
2# overall win share


What draggs his efficiency numbers down is his dreadful 3point percentage and shooting 30% from 10-16 feet , where he is career 44,2% shooter.
It's just matter of time when that will evan up to his career averages.

Other night, against Dallas we saw Clifford going back to what works, playing offense through him. Results 19 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists. And first game of a season where Magic cracked 100 points mark. No no coincidence. By the end of november Vučević will be old 20-11 guy because most of his "struggles" is him being in shooting slump in same time with others and result is this brickfest as team in general shoots 26% for 3.


My argument isn’t that he’s terrible. He’s actually pretty good. I just don’t think we can build a championship roster with him making so much and not playing like an all-star when it matters most.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#45 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:15 pm

thelead wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Vučević plays " bad"
and is on a team:

1# points
1# rebounds
3rd in assists
second in blocks
1# free throw attemps
4th in free trow percentage
3rd in BPM
1# offensive win share
2# defensive win share
2# overall win share


What draggs his efficiency numbers down is his dreadful 3point percentage and shooting 30% from 10-16 feet , where he is career 44,2% shooter.
It's just matter of time when that will evan up to his career averages.

Other night, against Dallas we saw Clifford going back to what works, playing offense through him. Results 19 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists. And first game of a season where Magic cracked 100 points mark. No no coincidence. By the end of november Vučević will be old 20-11 guy because most of his "struggles" is him being in shooting slump in same time with others and result is this brickfest as team in general shoots 26% for 3.


My argument isn’t that he’s terrible. He’s actually pretty good. I just don’t think we can build a championship roster with him making so much and not playing like an all-star when it matters most.


Magic won't compete for championship any time soon no matter what,especially in age of superstar grouping.

Biggest favorites to win it all this year are Clippers and Lakers.

Lakers ,from 2017-18 roster kept 3 players. Kuzma, Alex Caruso and KCP
Clippers from 2017-18 kept 2 players. Lou Williams and Pat Bev.
Bucks since 2017-18 changed 3 starters.
76ers sicne 17-18 changed 3 starters.

If Fultz, Isaac , Bamba start producing like stars and Magic turn because of them into 50 wins team than it will be easy to rework roster. But there is no signs that it will happen any time soon. Or ever.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#46 » by thelead » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:26 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
thelead wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Vučević plays " bad"
and is on a team:

1# points
1# rebounds
3rd in assists
second in blocks
1# free throw attemps
4th in free trow percentage
3rd in BPM
1# offensive win share
2# defensive win share
2# overall win share


What draggs his efficiency numbers down is his dreadful 3point percentage and shooting 30% from 10-16 feet , where he is career 44,2% shooter.
It's just matter of time when that will evan up to his career averages.

Other night, against Dallas we saw Clifford going back to what works, playing offense through him. Results 19 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists. And first game of a season where Magic cracked 100 points mark. No no coincidence. By the end of november Vučević will be old 20-11 guy because most of his "struggles" is him being in shooting slump in same time with others and result is this brickfest as team in general shoots 26% for 3.


My argument isn’t that he’s terrible. He’s actually pretty good. I just don’t think we can build a championship roster with him making so much and not playing like an all-star when it matters most.


Magic won't compete for championship any time soon no matter what,especially in age of superstar grouping.

Biggest favorites to win it all this year are Clippers and Lakers.

Lakers ,from 2017-18 roster kept 3 players. Kuzma, Alex Caruso and KCP
Clippers from 2017-18 kept 2 players. Lou Williams and Pat Bev.
Bucks since 2017-18 changed 3 starters.
76ers sicne 17-18 changed 3 starters.

If Fultz, Isaac , Bamba start producing like stars and Magic turn because of them into 50 wins team than it will be easy to rework roster. But there is no signs that it will happen any time soon. Or ever.


There are almost no guarantees but I would bet a ton of money that keeping this core (Vuc, Evan and AG) is not going to lead to a championship. At least two of them have to go. You know which two I prefer go but I don’t let my ‘homerism’ affect me when I say that AG should be a trade piece too to expedite a roster reset to get us going in the right direction.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#47 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 12:35 pm

thelead wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
thelead wrote:
My argument isn’t that he’s terrible. He’s actually pretty good. I just don’t think we can build a championship roster with him making so much and not playing like an all-star when it matters most.


Magic won't compete for championship any time soon no matter what,especially in age of superstar grouping.

Biggest favorites to win it all this year are Clippers and Lakers.

Lakers ,from 2017-18 roster kept 3 players. Kuzma, Alex Caruso and KCP
Clippers from 2017-18 kept 2 players. Lou Williams and Pat Bev.
Bucks since 2017-18 changed 3 starters.
76ers sicne 17-18 changed 3 starters.

If Fultz, Isaac , Bamba start producing like stars and Magic turn because of them into 50 wins team than it will be easy to rework roster. But there is no signs that it will happen any time soon. Or ever.


There are almost no guarantees but I would bet a ton of money that keeping this core (Vuc, Evan and AG) is not going to lead to a championship. At least two of them have to go. You know which two I prefer go but I don’t let my ‘homerism’ affect me when I say that AG should be a trade piece too to expedite a roster reset to get us going in the right direction.


Look, i don't mind trading players. If you are not superstar you are expendable, simple as that.
What i don't like is pushing narratives how XY player is holding YX player back. Especially when they don't even play same position.
When Curry started his career with Warriors he played along side Monta Ellise and David Lee. Two of them averaged 33 shots a game. Curry still averaged 19 ppg.

Vučević, and especially Evan are not hurting development of young players. If there is oportunity for some major trade down the road, so be it. But right now i highly doubt anybody is calling for any of Evan- Vuc- Gordon and it has little to do with them .We are 20 days into a new season, nobody will do panic trade, GM would look like a fools if they do. That's why almost all in season trades happen right before deadline. OR don't happen at all like 2 years ago.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#48 » by thelead » Fri Nov 8, 2019 1:02 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
thelead wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Magic won't compete for championship any time soon no matter what,especially in age of superstar grouping.

Biggest favorites to win it all this year are Clippers and Lakers.

Lakers ,from 2017-18 roster kept 3 players. Kuzma, Alex Caruso and KCP
Clippers from 2017-18 kept 2 players. Lou Williams and Pat Bev.
Bucks since 2017-18 changed 3 starters.
76ers sicne 17-18 changed 3 starters.

If Fultz, Isaac , Bamba start producing like stars and Magic turn because of them into 50 wins team than it will be easy to rework roster. But there is no signs that it will happen any time soon. Or ever.


There are almost no guarantees but I would bet a ton of money that keeping this core (Vuc, Evan and AG) is not going to lead to a championship. At least two of them have to go. You know which two I prefer go but I don’t let my ‘homerism’ affect me when I say that AG should be a trade piece too to expedite a roster reset to get us going in the right direction.


Look, i don't mind trading players. If you are not superstar you are expendable, simple as that.
What i don't like is pushing narratives how XY player is holding YX player back. Especially when they don't even play same position.
When Curry started his career with Warriors he played along side Monta Ellise and David Lee. Two of them averaged 33 shots a game. Curry still averaged 19 ppg.

Vučević, and especially Evan are not hurting development of young players. If there is oportunity for some major trade down the road, so be it. But right now i highly doubt anybody is calling for any of Evan- Vuc- Gordon and it has little to do with them .We are 20 days into a new season, nobody will do panic trade, GM would look like a fools if they do. That's why almost all in season trades happen right before deadline. OR don't happen at all like 2 years ago.


I want Fultz and JI to excel but I never claimed that the core is holding them back. I care about getting this team on the right track. Admittedly, the best way to do that is to get the core to play at peak performance... so that we can trade them. The problem with them playing well is that it gives fans false hopes and then fans like me are crazy for wanting to trade them. My biggest problem with this core is that they’re wildly inconsistent.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#49 » by fendilim » Fri Nov 8, 2019 1:43 pm

thelead wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Vučević plays " bad"
and is on a team:

1# points
1# rebounds
3rd in assists
second in blocks
1# free throw attemps
4th in free trow percentage
3rd in BPM
1# offensive win share
2# defensive win share
2# overall win share


What draggs his efficiency numbers down is his dreadful 3point percentage and shooting 30% from 10-16 feet , where he is career 44,2% shooter.
It's just matter of time when that will evan up to his career averages.

Other night, against Dallas we saw Clifford going back to what works, playing offense through him. Results 19 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists. And first game of a season where Magic cracked 100 points mark. No no coincidence. By the end of november Vučević will be old 20-11 guy because most of his "struggles" is him being in shooting slump in same time with others and result is this brickfest as team in general shoots 26% for 3.


My argument isn’t that he’s terrible. He’s actually pretty good. I just don’t think we can build a championship roster with him making so much and not playing like an all-star when it matters most.
Actually no one is saying he will lead us to championship, nor is anyone saying build a team around him, nor do I believe any resistance to trade Vuc.

Its about putting pieces to this team.

Vuc is, and has been, by default, our most reliable offensive player since we traded away Tobias and Oladipo.

We are a treadmill team like it or not, and tanking doesn't necessarily guarantee us any championship.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#50 » by thelead » Fri Nov 8, 2019 2:33 pm

fendilim wrote:
thelead wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Vučević plays " bad"
and is on a team:

1# points
1# rebounds
3rd in assists
second in blocks
1# free throw attemps
4th in free trow percentage
3rd in BPM
1# offensive win share
2# defensive win share
2# overall win share


What draggs his efficiency numbers down is his dreadful 3point percentage and shooting 30% from 10-16 feet , where he is career 44,2% shooter.
It's just matter of time when that will evan up to his career averages.

Other night, against Dallas we saw Clifford going back to what works, playing offense through him. Results 19 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists. And first game of a season where Magic cracked 100 points mark. No no coincidence. By the end of november Vučević will be old 20-11 guy because most of his "struggles" is him being in shooting slump in same time with others and result is this brickfest as team in general shoots 26% for 3.


My argument isn’t that he’s terrible. He’s actually pretty good. I just don’t think we can build a championship roster with him making so much and not playing like an all-star when it matters most.
Actually no one is saying he will lead us to championship, nor is anyone saying build a team around him, nor do I believe any resistance to trade Vuc.

Its about putting pieces to this team.

Vuc is, and has been, by default, our most reliable offensive player since we traded away Tobias and Oladipo.

We are a treadmill team like it or not, and tanking doesn't necessarily guarantee us any championship.



I hate this argument though and I do get where you’re coming from but you’re essentially saying:

Tanking isn’t a guarantee to a championship so we might as well hold onto a guy that guarantees to never win a championship for us.

Tanking doesn’t have to be the direction we move to but changing direction from where we’re headed today is a necessity.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#51 » by fendilim » Fri Nov 8, 2019 2:38 pm

thelead wrote:
fendilim wrote:
thelead wrote:
My argument isn’t that he’s terrible. He’s actually pretty good. I just don’t think we can build a championship roster with him making so much and not playing like an all-star when it matters most.
Actually no one is saying he will lead us to championship, nor is anyone saying build a team around him, nor do I believe any resistance to trade Vuc.

Its about putting pieces to this team.

Vuc is, and has been, by default, our most reliable offensive player since we traded away Tobias and Oladipo.

We are a treadmill team like it or not, and tanking doesn't necessarily guarantee us any championship.



I hate this argument though and I do get where you’re coming from but you’re essentially saying:

Tanking isn’t a guarantee to a championship so we might as well hold onto a guy that guarantees to never win a championship for us.

Tanking doesn’t have to be the direction we move to but changing direction from where we’re headed today is a necessity.

What direction are you exactly referring to though?

I'm sure management is doing their job and knows that everybody on this team is replaceable. As if the Bamba pick wasn't obvious enough. Unfortunately, Bamba just isnt good enough, yet, to receive the keys from Vuc.

If we keep losing, our players wont get any value in the league at all. So might as well try to win every game and hope for the best.
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Re: Why is there a resistance to trading Vuc? 

Post#52 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Fri Nov 8, 2019 2:39 pm

people are always afraid of change and what could happen with change it's human nature. Vuc is just good enough to give us hope and make the playoffs but with this weak supporting cast that's as far as we'll go. This FO did nothing to help us offensively and cluster f'd the F spots. The roster isn't Vuc's fault but its maddening as to how we're built right now.

We're going into next year with 0 cap space and Markelle as our only PG. Trades absolutely have to happen and right now I think Bamba is the one most likely to be on the way out followed by AG/Fournier.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:

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