Regular Season Game: Orlando Magic (2-5) at Dallas Mavericks (4-2) - 8:30pm ET

[fendilim]

Isaac is a monster.

AG should never be allowed to dribble a ball in late game situations.

Here's hoping you at least get to see mediocre offense so you start racking up some w's.

Sad but true.

[Bensational]

Since he is promoted to starter

Potential assits

Dj Augustin 28
Vučević 20
Fournier 17
Fultz 17

Ouch.
Another myth busted.

"But Fultz is much better playmaker than Augustin"

Augustin at least does not make offense collapse on itself as 5'5 jJ Barea is camping in front of him below rim.

Where'd you get those numbers? I'd like to look-up DJ with the starters and Fultz with the bench for the full picture.

https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612753

just change per game to total and adjust to total games

Overall Dj is much better playmaker than Fultz at this stage and it's not really close.
One is creating almost 11 potential assists per game and other 7,9. Evan is creating 6,8

not only that DJ is creating the most assists, he is also second best player in secundary assists, to just Evan.


As starter DJ created 11 potential assits per game
Fultz 5.7

As bench player Dj creates 9,7 potential assists
Fultz 9,2

in both cases DJ did better. Another reason why i thought starting Fultz was panic , not smart and rational move. Now no matter how much team sucks and he struggles and starters collapse under his inability to shoot in pick&roll ,there is no way in hell Clifford will bench him , just to avoid Philadelphia scenario.

This does not mean Fultz does not have potential to be better playmaker, he probably has. Problem is his shooting and how his whole game crumbles because defenders ignore him.
So far he took i think 20 threes, missed 16 . He was WIDE open in 18 of them. There was play last night where JJ Barea was hiding behind back of VUčević and i Dallas center just to dare him to shoot from mid range. You can't drive, dish , attack off dribble if defenders defend you only when you enter paint. Literally same thing happend to Payton.

FIRST 5 GAMES (DJ starter, Fultz bench)
DJ
Vuc shooting - 53.3% on 5 attempts off 12.8 passes
Fournier shooting - 46.7% on 2.7 attempts, off 7.3 passes
Gordon shooting - 18.2% on 1.8 attempts, off 6.2 passes

Fultz
Fournier shooting - 45% on 3.3 attempts, off 9.8 passes
Ross shooting - 31.6% on 3.2 attempts, off 6 passes
Vuc shooting - 33.3% on 1.5 attempts, off 6 passes

LAST 3 GAMES (Fultz starter, DJ bench)
DJ
Vuc shooting - 40% on 3.3 attempts, off 9.7 passes
Aminu shooting - 16.7% on 2 attempts, off 7 passes
Gordon shooting - 33.3% on 2 attempts, off 6.7 passes
Ross shooting - 50% on 2.7 attempts, off 6.7 passes

Fultz
Vuc shooting - 55.6% on 3 attempts off 15.3 passes
Fournier shooting - 0% on 0.3 attempts, off 8.7 passes
Gordon shooting - 60% on 3.3 attempts, off 7 passes


FRONT COURT TOUCHES
FIRST 5 GAMES (DJ starter, Fultz bench)
Fultz - 15.3, 0.193ppt (points per touch)
DJ - 18.7, 0.133ppt

LAST 3 GAMES (Fultz starter, DJ bench)
Fultz - 18, 0.224ppt
DJ - 19.7, 0.167ppt


DJ is better at hitting Vuc in his spots more frequently, but that comes with 3-4 years experience. The biggest difference is Fultz being able to get other players going more, largely Gordon. DJ can only hit Vuc and Fournier because they're the only ones he knows to look for. Fultz is much more opportunistic and finds the open man, not just who the play is designed for. And the offense, overally, generates more points off his touches than DJ's. And Fultz presently has our best FG% amongst regular rotation guys, and is a far bigger threat to get inside and score than DJ. That impact will start to manifest in better looks for the others as everyone learns to play with him.

[Mule Tears]

I was wrong about Isaac. Time for a new avatar, heh.

[swarlesbarkley]

FIRST 5 GAMES (DJ starter, Fultz bench)
DJ
Vuc shooting - 53.3% on 5 attempts off 12.8 passes
Fournier shooting - 46.7% on 2.7 attempts, off 7.3 passes
Gordon shooting - 18.2% on 1.8 attempts, off 6.2 passes

Fultz
Fournier shooting - 45% on 3.3 attempts, off 9.8 passes
Ross shooting - 31.6% on 3.2 attempts, off 6 passes
Vuc shooting - 33.3% on 1.5 attempts, off 6 passes

LAST 3 GAMES (Fultz starter, DJ bench)
DJ
Vuc shooting - 40% on 3.3 attempts, off 9.7 passes
Aminu shooting - 16.7% on 2 attempts, off 7 passes
Gordon shooting - 33.3% on 2 attempts, off 6.7 passes
Ross shooting - 50% on 2.7 attempts, off 6.7 passes

Fultz
Vuc shooting - 55.6% on 3 attempts off 15.3 passes
Fournier shooting - 0% on 0.3 attempts, off 8.7 passes
Gordon shooting - 60% on 3.3 attempts, off 7 passes


FRONT COURT TOUCHES
FIRST 5 GAMES (DJ starter, Fultz bench)
Fultz - 15.3, 0.193ppt (points per touch)
DJ - 18.7, 0.133ppt

LAST 3 GAMES (Fultz starter, DJ bench)
Fultz - 18, 0.224ppt
DJ - 19.7, 0.167ppt


DJ is better at hitting Vuc in his spots more frequently, but that comes with 3-4 years experience. The biggest difference is Fultz being able to get other players going more, largely Gordon. DJ can only hit Vuc and Fournier because they're the only ones he knows to look for. Fultz is much more opportunistic and finds the open man, not just who the play is designed for. And the offense, overally, generates more points off his touches than DJ's. And Fultz presently has our best FG% amongst regular rotation guys, and is a far bigger threat to get inside and score than DJ. That impact will start to manifest in better looks for the others as everyone learns to play with him.

Great stuff here. Thanks!

[ezzzp]

Is there a reason Isaac isn't playing real starting minutes? 30 mpg per is solid but considering he's the only guy on your team playing +20 mpg with a positive +/-(which is understandable, considering you guys are 2-6...actually speaks volumes of Isaac more than anything).

He seems to keep his fouls in check, his body has vastly improved so the injuries he had in his rookie year I don't think will be problematic.
I don't know, just feel he needs to get the mandatory BPOT(or second best at worst) 35-36 mins a game. But maybe I'm biased because he's a staple on my fantasy squad.

Our great Aminu signing has to play, because we don't had enough defenders already

I don't agree with that. The Magic should definitely be managing JI's minutes. He is still wearing an ankle brace and his body is still adjusting to another growth spurt this summer.

If he gets injured while playing heavy minutes, people will cry incessantly about why his minute load wasn't managed better, especially with Aminu (a starting caliber forward) on the bench. Its an 82 game season with aspirations of playoffs. There is no need for any of our forwards to be averaging over 32 MPG this early.

Cleveland: 23:59
Atlanta: 25:16
Toronto 33:03
New York: 31:40
Milwaukee: 28:34
Denver: 35:42
Oklahoma City: 31:10
Dallas: 31:47

[basketballRob]

as i already said , lost cause

How is Fultz elite playmaking going with starters? 2,6 assist a game ? #MagicJohnson

He'd have a lot more assists if Vuc didn't shoot 4/14 and 7/15 and Evan didn't shoot 5/12 and 0/7 in 2 of the 3 games he's started.

Since he is promoted to starter

Potential assits

Dj Augustin 28
Vučević 20
Fournier 17
Fultz 17

Ouch.
Another myth busted.

"But Fultz is much better playmaker than Augustin"

not only that DJ is better playmaker he also never gets abused by JJ Barea like some other player was last night

They are running the offense through Vuc and Fournier.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[ezzzp]

good look at last play:

Read on Twitter

[Blue_and_Whte]

good look at last play:

Read on Twitter

Wasn't as bad a play as anyone is making it out to be? It wasn't a bad play at all. I knew nobody but Vuc was open when i saw it in real time. Isaac wasn't even positioned to receive a pass and Cliff had two non shooters playing off the ball. That was the play he drew up and it got him open with plenty of space. Heartbreaking loss but a couple of our guys found their rhythm in AG and Nik and it was a hard fought game on the road. I'll take those.

[Bensational]

good look at last play:

Read on Twitter

Vuc is shooting 20% from 3 for the season, so for Cliff to set him up for that shot is like giving Biyombo a 3pt shot to win the game. There's no reason Isaac couldn't have been setting that pick up high and Vuc could've been down low. Vuc can get shots off in the paint with little time, so as long as Cliff had used Wes to help Vuc seal off his man, I'd have had more faith in a little hook or even turnaround midrange jumper from Vuc than I would in his 3 point shot at the moment.

Still, the game was close, our guys played hard, and that defense is still looking so nasty across the board, so I'm oddly happy and at peace with the loss.

[Blue_and_Whte]

good look at last play:

Read on Twitter

Vuc is shooting 20% from 3 for the season, so for Cliff to set him up for that shot is like giving Biyombo a 3pt shot to win the game. There's no reason Isaac couldn't have been setting that pick up high and Vuc could've been down low. Vuc can get shots off in the paint with little time, so as long as Cliff had used Wes to help Vuc seal off his man, I'd have had more faith in a little hook or even turnaround midrange jumper from Vuc than I would in his 3 point shot at the moment.

Still, the game was close, our guys played hard, and that defense is still looking so nasty across the board, so I'm oddly happy and at peace with the loss.

If we don't get Vooch going then its going to be a long season. I'm good with that look. Hopefully the momentum carries on into tonight.

[ezzzp]

Vuc is shooting 20% from 3 for the season, so for Cliff to set him up for that shot is like giving Biyombo a 3pt shot to win the game.

C'mon now, that's ridiculous...Vucevic can make that shot and has for the past year. Plus cherry picking an 8 game sample to make a case for who is the better shooter is incredibly biased. By that same token, then someone can cherry pick the recent 5 games sample were JI has shot 31.6% from 3pt range.

Vucevic is also a better passer from the top. So if JI makes his cut in a more timely manner, Vucevic (and even DJ) would have had a slashing JI as an option to create a shot going to the basket + he would have drawn Vucevic's defender into the lane giving Vucevic space to either drive or step in for a less rushed shot. But JI didn't, he hesitated and didn't cut until Vucevic had to shoot. Those are things JI will learn with time.

[Bensational]

Vuc is shooting 20% from 3 for the season, so for Cliff to set him up for that shot is like giving Biyombo a 3pt shot to win the game.

C'mon now, that's ridiculous...Vucevic can make that shot and has for the past year. Plus cherry picking an 8 game sample to make a case for who is the better shooter is incredibly biased. By that same token, then someone can cherry pick the recent 5 games sample were JI has shot 31.6% from 3pt range.

Vucevic is also a better passer from the top. So if JI makes his cut in a more timely manner, Vucevic (and even DJ) would have had a slashing JI as an option to create a shot going to the basket + he would have drawn Vucevic's defender into the lane giving Vucevic space to either drive or step in for a less rushed shot. But JI didn't, he hesitated and didn't cut until Vucevic had to shoot. Those are things JI will learn with time.

Expecting someone who's in a cold slump to hit a shot from deep with added pressure is not a smart play. Yeah he's hit that shot before, but he's not doing it this season. The law of averages doesn't account for rhythm and flow so you can't safely assume a player will make a shot at their normal rates when they're in a clear period of not shooting at their normal rates.

Isaac was a step slow, it's true. Cliff said DJ made the right play, but it doesn't sound like that was the designed play or Cliff's preferred shot. Just the best one in that moment.

Like I said, put Vuc in the paint and free him up for a look from closer up and it's an infinitely better shot, and there's really no way to split hairs on that.

[ezzzp]

Vuc is shooting 20% from 3 for the season, so for Cliff to set him up for that shot is like giving Biyombo a 3pt shot to win the game.

C'mon now, that's ridiculous...Vucevic can make that shot and has for the past year. Plus cherry picking an 8 game sample to make a case for who is the better shooter is incredibly biased. By that same token, then someone can cherry pick the recent 5 games sample were JI has shot 31.6% from 3pt range.

Vucevic is also a better passer from the top. So if JI makes his cut in a more timely manner, Vucevic (and even DJ) would have had a slashing JI as an option to create a shot going to the basket + he would have drawn Vucevic's defender into the lane giving Vucevic space to either drive or step in for a less rushed shot. But JI didn't, he hesitated and didn't cut until Vucevic had to shoot. Those are things JI will learn with time.

Expecting someone who's in a cold slump to hit a shot from deep with added pressure is not a smart play. Yeah he's hit that shot before, but he's not doing it this season. The law of averages doesn't account for rhythm and flow so you can't safely assume a player will make a shot at their normal rates when they're in a clear period of not shooting at their normal rates.

Isaac was a step slow, it's true. Cliff said DJ made the right play, but it doesn't sound like that was the designed play or Cliff's preferred shot. Just the best one in that moment.

Like I said, put Vuc in the paint and free him up for a look from closer up and it's an infinitely better shot, and there's really no way to split hairs on that.

dude you literally compared Vucevic’s perimeter shooting to Bizmack Biyombo’s ...that’s some ridiculous nonsense

[Bensational]

C'mon now, that's ridiculous...Vucevic can make that shot and has for the past year. Plus cherry picking an 8 game sample to make a case for who is the better shooter is incredibly biased. By that same token, then someone can cherry pick the recent 5 games sample were JI has shot 31.6% from 3pt range.

Vucevic is also a better passer from the top. So if JI makes his cut in a more timely manner, Vucevic (and even DJ) would have had a slashing JI as an option to create a shot going to the basket + he would have drawn Vucevic's defender into the lane giving Vucevic space to either drive or step in for a less rushed shot. But JI didn't, he hesitated and didn't cut until Vucevic had to shoot. Those are things JI will learn with time.

Expecting someone who's in a cold slump to hit a shot from deep with added pressure is not a smart play. Yeah he's hit that shot before, but he's not doing it this season. The law of averages doesn't account for rhythm and flow so you can't safely assume a player will make a shot at their normal rates when they're in a clear period of not shooting at their normal rates.

Isaac was a step slow, it's true. Cliff said DJ made the right play, but it doesn't sound like that was the designed play or Cliff's preferred shot. Just the best one in that moment.

Like I said, put Vuc in the paint and free him up for a look from closer up and it's an infinitely better shot, and there's really no way to split hairs on that.

dude you literally compared Vucevic’s perimeter shooting to Bizmack Biyombo’s ...that’s some ridiculous nonsense

Yeah, it's called exaggeration. The fact I have to explain that to you is ridiculous nonsense.

[fendilim]

Vuc is shooting 20% from 3 for the season, so for Cliff to set him up for that shot is like giving Biyombo a 3pt shot to win the game.

WHAT???

[ezzzp]

Expecting someone who's in a cold slump to hit a shot from deep with added pressure is not a smart play. Yeah he's hit that shot before, but he's not doing it this season. The law of averages doesn't account for rhythm and flow so you can't safely assume a player will make a shot at their normal rates when they're in a clear period of not shooting at their normal rates.

Isaac was a step slow, it's true. Cliff said DJ made the right play, but it doesn't sound like that was the designed play or Cliff's preferred shot. Just the best one in that moment.

Like I said, put Vuc in the paint and free him up for a look from closer up and it's an infinitely better shot, and there's really no way to split hairs on that.

dude you literally compared Vucevic’s perimeter shooting to Bizmack Biyombo’s ...that’s some ridiculous nonsense

Yeah, it's called exaggeration. The fact I have to explain that to you is ridiculous nonsense.

Everyone knows its exaggeration. It's par for the course for you, constantly spewing out ridiculously biased hot takes - and then comically trying to "appear" objective by including a soft disclaimer to hedge deniability...lmao as if people don't know what your agenda history is. It's ridiculous nonsense.

[j-ragg]

dude you literally compared Vucevic’s perimeter shooting to Bizmack Biyombo’s ...that’s some ridiculous nonsense

Yeah, it's called exaggeration. The fact I have to explain that to you is ridiculous nonsense.

Everyone knows its exaggeration. It's par for the course for you, constantly spewing out ridiculously biased hot takes - and then comically trying to "appear" objective by including a soft disclaimer to hedge deniability...lmao as if people don't know what your agenda history is. It's ridiculous nonsense.

Yeah Ben is always spewing the hot takes lol. Always such weird responses.

[ezzzp]

Yeah, it's called exaggeration. The fact I have to explain that to you is ridiculous nonsense.

Everyone knows its exaggeration. It's par for the course for you, constantly spewing out ridiculously biased hot takes - and then comically trying to "appear" objective by including a soft disclaimer to hedge deniability...lmao as if people don't know what your agenda history is. It's ridiculous nonsense.

Yeah Ben is always spewing the hot takes lol. Always such weird responses.

Some of us are just able to read through elementary level smoke screens to see what the agenda is. Also, lets not pretend like you aren't part of the and1 circle jerk constantly piling on those same biased agendas...your effort to defend his honor is LOL.

[Bensational]

dude you literally compared Vucevic’s perimeter shooting to Bizmack Biyombo’s ...that’s some ridiculous nonsense

Yeah, it's called exaggeration. The fact I have to explain that to you is ridiculous nonsense.

Everyone knows its exaggeration. It's par for the course for you, constantly spewing out ridiculously biased hot takes - and then comically trying to "appear" objective by including a soft disclaimer to hedge deniability...lmao as if people don't know what your agenda history is. It's ridiculous nonsense.

Here we go... Once again you look silly because you can't interpret something as simple as an exaggeration so you deflect into tribalism and agendas. As if people don't know you got banned from reddit for the same kind of BS.

You can't deny that it was a bad shot, so you focus on semantics of the comment. Lol.

Go recite some numbers and calm yourself down.

[ezzzp]

Yeah, it's called exaggeration. The fact I have to explain that to you is ridiculous nonsense.

Everyone knows its exaggeration. It's par for the course for you, constantly spewing out ridiculously biased hot takes - and then comically trying to "appear" objective by including a soft disclaimer to hedge deniability...lmao as if people don't know what your agenda history is. It's ridiculous nonsense.

Here we go... Once again you look silly because you can't interpret something as simple as an exaggeration so you deflect into tribalism and agendas. As if people don't know you got banned from reddit for the same kind of BS.

You can't deny that it was a bad shot, so you focus on semantics of the comment. Lol.

Go recite some numbers and calm yourself down.

Both of you take it easy. It's totally fine if you two disagree, but let's make sure we don't cross the line into personal attacks about people's knowledge of the sport or their cognitive capacity. -Knightro