Rui Hachimura

[badinage]

His game right now is built around mid-range 2's, and that's not a good thing in today's NBA. It's fine if he adds more successful drives to the hoop and a fair amount of 3's. Again, we'll have to wait and see if that happens, but it does have to happen if he's going to be an effective starter. He's got a ways to go. Right now, he's a poor man's Juwan Howard, and that ain't gonna work in the long run.

If he makes a good number of 2’s, that’s called ... effective.

Look at all these stupid teams and players jacking up 3’s all over the place. And missing, missing, missing. (And turning the game into a silly free-for-all, but that’s another story ...)

Two poor games offensively, yes, but six games where he excelled offensively. As a rookie, still learning the league and the game.

This is the kind of scrutiny and dissection you reserve for a player like Zion Williamson, someone supposed to be superlative. I didn’t harbor any huge hopes for Rui, and certainly not for this season. I was hoping we would see 8 and 9 point games, and savoring his small improvements ... and then reveling in the second half of the season in the occasional 16 point game, the kind that gives fans of bad teams reasons to dream ...

I never expected this. And nobody else on here did either. So let’s bear that firmly in mind in every conversation we have from this point going forward.

[Ruzious]

His game right now is built around mid-range 2's, and that's not a good thing in today's NBA. It's fine if he adds more successful drives to the hoop and a fair amount of 3's. Again, we'll have to wait and see if that happens, but it does have to happen if he's going to be an effective starter. He's got a ways to go. Right now, he's a poor man's Juwan Howard, and that ain't gonna work in the long run.

If he makes a good number of 2’s, that’s called ... effective.

Look at all these stupid teams and players jacking up 3’s all over the place. And missing, missing, missing. (And turning the game into a silly free-for-all, but that’s another story ...)

Two poor games offensively, yes, but six games where he excelled offensively. As a rookie, still learning the league and the game.

This is the kind of scrutiny and dissection you reserve for a player like Zion Williamson, someone supposed to be superlative. I didn’t harbor any huge hopes for Rui, and certainly not for this season. I was hoping we would see 8 and 9 point games, and savoring his small improvements ... and then reveling in the second half of the season in the occasional 16 point game, the kind that gives fans of bad teams reasons to dream ...

I never expected this. And nobody else on here did either. So let’s bear that firmly in mind in every conversation we have from this point going forward.

I'm looking at my post and looking at your post... and I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

[prime1time]

Not sure for the reason for the negativity in this thread. Rui has aspects of his game to work on just like any other player. It might not be obvious but they are throwing a lot at him. Defensive rotations, changing his jumpshot, altering his playstyle (more 3's less 2's), finishing hard at the rim etc. What that really means is that now instead of just playing, Rui is thinking. It's highly telling that he's still playing well given all that the team is putting on him. But, let's not judge him too harshly. Trust the process.

[payitforward]

...Rui has aspects of his game to work on just like any other player. It might not be obvious but they are throwing a lot at him. Defensive rotations, changing his jumpshot, altering his playstyle (more 3's less 2's), finishing hard at the rim etc. What that really means is that now instead of just playing, Rui is thinking. It's highly telling that he's still playing well given all that the team is putting on him. But, let's not judge him too harshly. Trust the process.

Agree 100% -- except that he's playing well some of the time & not so well other times. Which is to be expected. Duh. Tell me please, what do people want from this kid?

Not sure for the reason for the negativity in this thread....

What negativity?

I mean that question literally: I don't see any negativity about Rui Hachimura in this thread. Unless you mean that when he misses a shot someone mentions that "he missed a shot," and/or when he has a bad game someone says "Rui had a bad game"? BFD.

[prime1time]

...Rui has aspects of his game to work on just like any other player. It might not be obvious but they are throwing a lot at him. Defensive rotations, changing his jumpshot, altering his playstyle (more 3's less 2's), finishing hard at the rim etc. What that really means is that now instead of just playing, Rui is thinking. It's highly telling that he's still playing well given all that the team is putting on him. But, let's not judge him too harshly. Trust the process.

Agree 100% -- except that he's playing well some of the time & not so well other times. Which is to be expected. Duh. Tell me please, what do people want from this kid?

Not sure for the reason for the negativity in this thread....

What negativity?

I mean that question literally: I don't see any negativity about Rui Hachimura in this thread. Unless you mean that when he misses a shot someone mentions that "he missed a shot," and/or when he has a bad game someone says "Rui had a bad game"? BFD.

The negativity I'm talking about is when posters make a post focusing solely on what Rui struggles doing while not putting it in context. Not trying to start a long back and forth on the issue but I just feel like for some posters Rui was never "their guy" so they are more apt to be critical rather than putting his shortcomings in context. I think if you would go to other team boards and they had a rookie play as well as Rui has played, there would be way more optimism. On our board posters insist on focusing on his mistakes and his bad games, then as an aside they'll point out that he's young. Not asking for unrestrained optimism, but if you are going to criticize the guy at least put it in context from the beginning. Every rookie has question marks about his game. Rui just went 10-13 and I have to read about how he's taking long two's, how it's not going to work and how he needs to change his game. This is coming off the best game of his career probably.

[payitforward]

Ok, so it's "a feeling" on your part. You have a right to the feeling, why not?

But, I sure don't read the thread that way. I'd say there's a lot more over-selling of Rui than under-selling. People have posted their predictions that he'll be RoY, that he's a harder worker than any other rookie (I think that might have been you!! ), etc. Others have called him "a star."

If this thread is out of balance, it's in the direction of being over the top.

Now... you'd expect that; nothing strange about it. It's how fans are.

[Roddy B for 3]

I had Rui #5 on my big board and am thinking I had him to low!

I also had him #2POY last year.

I'm happy he is so successful for your team.

A big reason I liked him so much was his personality. Good goofing Wizards!

[payitforward]

I had Rui #5 on my big board and am thinking I had him to low!

Why do you think that?

...A big reason I liked him so much was his personality...

So... who were the four guys with better personalities?

[Roddy B for 3]

I had Rui #5 on my big board and am thinking I had him to low!

Why do you think that?
I'm thinking I overrated Hunter compared to Rui.

...A big reason I liked him so much was his personality...

So... who were the four guys with better personalities?

I don't want to say who's personality I thought was "better". Just that Rui comes across as a professional, and a true hard worker. Zion has weight issues, Hunter is professional too but dosent appear to hit the weights like Rui, RJ seems similar to Rui in the hardworker department, and Ja I don't think has been taking his craft as seriously as he has the past couple years -compared to now (hence the sophomore breakout)

My big board had the top 5 of the 2019 draft:
Zion, RJ, Ja, Hunter, Rui

[payitforward]

Well... I was just yanking your chain a little, Roddy -- thanks for not takin' it too seriously!

Rui absolutely does seem a hard worker & a guy who is serious about his craft & determined in his commitment to improving his craft. Those are really great qualities.

We all agreed about Zion at #1, I'm pretty sure. It's interesting that you had Barrett before Ja. I didn't. To me, he was/is a boom-or-bust prospect. His numbers weren't good overall, though some games were great. & Hunter I have never been able to see as an elite player -- though he's certainly a safe bet to play in the league, & for many years barring injury. I also didn't like Culver all that much. & Garland was injured almost all year, so to me he seemed a very speculative pick -- hard really to know much about him.

All that is just me. But it did seem weird: after Zion & Ja, it looked like the best play for a team with any of the next several picks was to trade down. What made that seem obvious to me was that there were going to be really excellent prospects available further down R1: Brandon Clarke, P.J. Washington, Gogo Bitadze, Luka Samanic, Grant Williams, Tyler Herro, Keldon Johnson, Bruno Fernando, & a few others.

I think almost all those guys will be better than anyone taken from 3-10 -- & of course if you trade down you get more than one of them. Especially given the situation of the Wizards, rebuilding, I would have loved to come out of the draft with, say Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, Quinndary Weatherspoon & (undrafted) Dedric Lawson. The Spurs picked Samanic not Clarke, but otherwise that's what they did. Or, if we'd traded for the Celtics #s20-22, we could have come out of the draft with Clarke, Johnson, Bruno Fernando & Lawson.

But... we did what we did. & Rui Hachimura has a solid chance to be an outstanding NBA player.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[The Consiglieri]

Absolutely, he has a solid chance to be RoY -- &, more importantly, to be an outstanding NBA player.

Very, very excited. I hated the pick at the time, but I had a weird itch I needed to scratch w/regards to my memory, I just was sure I'd seen him linked to going top 4-6 overall back during the summer and fall of '18. Could never find confirmation, so maybe I was just deceiving myself. Wouldn't be the first time.

Over the years, draft picks have tended to fall into a couple of categories for me, Ecstatic, cautiously optimistic, Disappointed, and enraged.

Making a list since I started paying attention w/1st rounders:

Ecstatic:
Howard
Wallace
Hamilton
K. Brown (I just thought he was gonna be great based on literally nothing)
J. Wall
Beal


Cautiously Optimistic:
H. Grant
Hammonds
Cheaney
Pecherov
N. Young
J. McGee
Seraphin
J. Vesely
Singleton
Oubre


Disappointed:
L. Smith
J. Dixon
T. Booker
Porter
Hachimura

Enraged:
Googs
Mugsy
J. Jeffries
Jarvis Hayes
T. Brown


Hachimura doesn't really fit into Enraged, because I threw guys into that pile when I was sure they were busts, or there were picked w/much better talent available, or both, and I didn't think Hachimura would bust, I just thought there were better options available. However, I had that weird itch from day 1, about him being seen as a really interesting prospect, and the second word started trickling out during the summer league, it just felt like every single: "If he can do this then" and "if he can do that then..." were being checked off one after another after another. I'm completely sold on him being a "hit" at this point, which considering this was a HUGELY sketchy draft, is massive for the team in the long term. Lots of potential pot holes, and it definitely looks like we dodged one.

I'm not someone whose looking at anything else in a particular up or down view, w/regards to Wall, my entire expectation is that he's done, and his contract is an ankle weight in the same way (but much worse) that the panicked idiot deal with Mahinmi was. Nothing that's said or leaked to the press over the next year or more is really gonna change my mind on that. The injury threatens what was his chief difference making talent/skill (absurd speed and acceleration), and maybe he pulls a Jordan 2.0, and reinvents himself after time away from the game, but after watching him and his mental makeup since 2010 color me skeptical. This is a guy, like Melo, who has seemed completely allergic to honest self-reflection, and adjustment based upon the available evidence and data. Heck he couldn't even stay fit at times. So I think he's a lost cause until he shows me different and an ankle weight for the franchise until we can dump him several years from now.

All that matters now is that Hachimura looks like he'll be a top 3-5 talent in this draft that we landed despite being 1000% hosed by the lottery, basically like we stood still at slot, and got the best guy at slot (which oddly, it does sound like he would've been the pick if we had just stayed at slot anyway-if memory serves it sounded like he was 4th or 5th on our board based on rumors I feel like I heard), and a hit like that means that we won't be starting from virtual scratch w/a top pick in 2020, we'll have a couple of pieces, a chance to keep Beal happy during the losing (a sense of hope, though I would still 1000% trade him at the deadline if we got a deal on the level w/those OKC swung in the offseason or close to them), and a real chance to potentially turn this ship around by '21 or '22 if we can continue to suck and dodge the potholes in yet another draft that seems sketchy in '20 (why do we always suck or lose in the lottery when drafts are garbage, or feature only 1-2 elite franchise changing players? So frustrating). Anyway, there's hope, and I believe in Hachimura. Things look much sunnier than they did five months ago

[tontoz]

I mentioned this in the game thread but it probably belongs here. We don't have a legit pg on the roster and that will hurt Rui's production. He will have to create his own looks much moreso than he would with Wall or even Sato.

He will also have to learn to help on D because opposing pgs will be able to get into the lane routinely. Of course Wall's defensive effort was frequently lacking but he could play good D when he actually wanted to.

[payitforward]

Absolutely, he has a solid chance to be RoY -- &, more importantly, to be an outstanding NBA player.

Very, very excited.... I

...I'm completely sold on him being a "hit" at this point, which considering this was a HUGELY sketchy draft, is massive for the team in the long term....

Actually, it's looking like it was a perfectly good draft -- at least average, maybe even above average.

... Hachimura looks like he'll be a top 3-5 talent in this draft ..., and I believe in Hachimura. Things look much sunnier than they did five months ago

Wow. I like Rui. I really do. I've said it a zillion times. & like you, I think things look sunnier than they have in a while (long-term... but still).

However, there is nothing, literally nothing, in his play so far, & nothing in his play in college, to indicate that Rui Hachimura was the "top 3-5 talent in this draft" -- i.e. one of the best 3 talents in the draft after Zion & Ja.

Lay this kind of nonsense on the kid, & he'll never meet your expectations.

[payitforward]

Just checked, & 18 rookies have played 150 or more minutes. Using a common overall measure, Rui is the 6th most productive among them.

If you'd prefer to look at it from a different angle: not including Zion & Hayes (neither of whom has played yet), 6 guys were picked before Rui, but Rui is playing better than every single one of them. Better so far than Ja, Barrett, Hunter, Garland, Culver, & White.

OTOH, Washington, Herro, Guduric & Paschall are all playing great -- better than Rui.

The 5th guy w/ 150+ minutes who's outplaying Rui? That would be the rookie who is playing head and shoulders above every other rookie. You know who that is, right? It's not even close....

[The Consiglieri]

Absolutely, he has a solid chance to be RoY -- &, more importantly, to be an outstanding NBA player.

Very, very excited.... I

...I'm completely sold on him being a "hit" at this point, which considering this was a HUGELY sketchy draft, is massive for the team in the long term....

Actually, it's looking like it was a perfectly good draft -- at least average, maybe even above average.

... Hachimura looks like he'll be a top 3-5 talent in this draft ..., and I believe in Hachimura. Things look much sunnier than they did five months ago

Wow. I like Rui. I really do. I've said it a zillion times. & like you, I think things look sunnier than they have in a while (long-term... but still).

However, there is nothing, literally nothing, in his play so far, & nothing in his play in college, to indicate that Rui Hachimura was the "top 3-5 talent in this draft" -- i.e. one of the best 3 talents in the draft after Zion & Ja.

Lay this kind of nonsense on the kid, & he'll never meet your expectations.

Point 1: I do think it's too early to make either statement, but I definitely think it's too early w/a lot of the guys compared to Rui because Rui hasn't had any alarming trends so far. Looked very good in the summer, looks very good now (I'm thinking Trae Young warning signs like summer '18 when that trade was looking much much worse than it does now, even though it was still stupid).

Point 2: Not so sure, not at all. I probably shouldn't have said top 3, because I believe quite firmly that the top 3 will all hit. I agree w/your sentiments, history says there's going to be a bust in that mix, but its hard to see it. Zion is just impossible to see as a bust unless injuries kill his career, Morant looks like no matter what, he'll be productive, maybe or maybe not efficient, but definitely productive (and for now, I just expect him to be damn good), and Barrett is just built for the modern NBA, if he busts, to me, it will be because he landed on a team that's the redskins of the NBA. Cursed with incompetence. After that, I think Rui will find himself in the discussion of the top of the next tier.

Point 3: Entirely separate and not directed at you. Really, really, really don't need to read the, "I was there from day 1,", "While you were all trashing him, like a true hero on the front lines, I was dodging arrow after arrow, bullet after bullet, manning the barricades for Rui,". Posting on CPND, Extremeskins, Hockeysfuture, BigSoccer and RealGM, nothing gets more tired faster than posting as if you are fighting in some kind of battle, as if you are some misunderstood hero of minority takes, correct, but wrongly accused of being incorrect/a homer or the like. A warrior to the last, for your correct take, battling it back, bleeding, truly bleeding OP blood, but somehow struggling forward like some hero from a 1970s/early 80's Era Springstein song. It's just absurd. Everyone will always have good and bad takes from time to time, we will all read one another good takes and bad takes and we will all have our share. Let it the blank go.

It's just good to own the mistakes, and move on from there. Whether it's w/the Wizards/Boulez, Redskins, USMNT, hockeysfuture, whatever, just own them and move on. I was wrong about Hachimura. I'll be wrong about plenty more. I hope I'm always wrong when I think we screwed up badly. Nothing would be better. Nothing.

[Ruzious]

Just checked, & 18 rookies have played 150 or more minutes. Using a common overall measure, Rui is the 6th most productive among them.

If you'd prefer to look at it from a different angle: not including Zion & Hayes (neither of whom has played yet), 6 guys were picked before Rui, but Rui is playing better than every single one of them. Better so far than Ja, Barrett, Hunter, Garland, Culver, & White.

OTOH, Washington, Herro, Guduric & Paschall are all playing great -- better than Rui.

The 5th guy w/ 150+ minutes who's outplaying Rui? That would be the rookie who is playing head and shoulders above every other rookie. You know who that is, right? It's not even close....

I think you're underrating Ja' performance. Yes - he needs to lower his to's, but almost every rookie PG goes through major growing pains. Ja's PER is 17.5 to Rui's 15.0, and his TS% is .556 to Rui's .526.

[dckingsfan]

I guess the question is how to judge Rui? Is he a top 16 player at this time and will he be so in the future? Or is there another way to judge him (steal of the draft maybe)?

If you are looking at the question of is he playing above his draft position - I think the answer is a resounding yes.

I guess if you are looking at the steal of the draft, I guess that is Brandon Clarke (right now).

[payitforward]

Just checked, & 18 rookies have played 150 or more minutes. Using a common overall measure, Rui is the 6th most productive among them.

If you'd prefer to look at it from a different angle: not including Zion & Hayes (neither of whom has played yet), 6 guys were picked before Rui, but Rui is playing better than every single one of them. Better so far than Ja, Barrett, Hunter, Garland, Culver, & White.

OTOH, Washington, Herro, Guduric & Paschall are all playing great -- better than Rui.

The 5th guy w/ 150+ minutes who's outplaying Rui? That would be the rookie who is playing head and shoulders above every other rookie. You know who that is, right? It's not even close....

I think you're underrating Ja' performance. Yes - he needs to lower his to's, but almost every rookie PG goes through major growing pains. Ja's PER is 17.5 to Rui's 15.0, and his TS% is .556 to Rui's .526.

In Ja's case, it's really just a matter of the small sample size. He was producing great numbers overall, then a game or two not so good -- & the overall numbers plummet. Temporarily.

IOW, all these levels will continue to shift quickly until the numbers are enough that a couple of games don't have a big effect.

[payitforward]

I guess the question is how to judge Rui? Is he a top 16 player at this time and will he be so in the future? Or is there another way to judge him (steal of the draft maybe)?

If you are looking at the question of is he playing above his draft position - I think the answer is a resounding yes.

I guess if you are looking at the steal of the draft, I guess that is Brandon Clarke (right now).

"...a top 16 player" -- ? Do you mean "in the league?" Good Lord!! Why are you laying that kind of expectation on this kid?

Is he the "steal of the draft"? Again... can we give this young man a little more time, please? No, he is not playing like "the steal of the draft" right now -- how would that be possible given that P.J. Washington (taken #12) is playing a whole h#ll of a lot better than Rui? Not to mention Eric Paschall, taken #41.

As to "above his draft position," well... he's playing better than most of the guys taken before him. OTOH, there are a bunch of guys taken after him who are playing better than he is.

What we can say about Rui after his first 228 minutes is that he's definitely an NBA player (that in itself is a lot to be able to say after 8 games!) & has a shot to become an outstanding one (again, a lot to be able say after 8 games).

That's a lot! But, that's also it. Nothing more to say.

No... one more thing: if you look at the history of #9 picks, I'm confident that Rui is among the best of them in the last dozen plus years.