Wiggins: "There's not 100 players better than me"

[TheZachAttack]

So we all agree Tom Thibdueo was a terrible coach and holding the team back?

Definitely not.

I think it is extremely hard to defend an idea that Thibs was able to design a system and a culture suited to maximize his best players (Towns/Wiggins/etc) strengths.

If you can’t defend that idea, I think it’s extremely hard to defend the idea that Thibs was not holding the team back.

[KGdaBom]

So we all agree Tom Thibdueo was a terrible coach and holding the team back?

Definitely not.

I think it is extremely hard to defend an idea that Thibs was able to design a system and a culture suited to maximize his best players (Towns/Wiggins/etc) strengths.

If you can’t defend that idea, I think it’s extremely hard to defend the idea that Thibs was not holding the team back.

We had a sensational improvement with Butler, but then Butler went psycho. Did Thibodeau make Butler go psycho. IMO going psycho is all on Butler.

[jscott]

Thibs was not a good coach/GM for this team.

[TheZachAttack]

Definitely not.

I think it is extremely hard to defend an idea that Thibs was able to design a system and a culture suited to maximize his best players (Towns/Wiggins/etc) strengths.

If you can’t defend that idea, I think it’s extremely hard to defend the idea that Thibs was not holding the team back.

We had a sensational improvement with Butler, but then Butler went psycho. Did Thibodeau make Butler go psycho. IMO going psycho is all on Butler.

Thibs used a lot of value to go and get Butler. The Wolves had the talent to go as far (arguably farther) with any coach in the league. The Wolves never got the value of the sum of the parts—they went that far in spite of Thibs.

Luke Walton had a great record with the Warriors as a head coach. That doesn’t mean he’s a good coach (he’s not).

The Wolves two best young assets regressed or at best did not progress. Butler hated the culture so badly he blew up and left. The parts Thibs put together didn’t fit and used up tons of cap flexibility. Etc. etc. etc.

It’s entirely possible that Thibs was a good coach for portions of his coaching career (he was), but he was not a good for the Timberwolves. He created a negative culture, a team that did not fit well together, and a system that was negative for his best players.

I see what you are trying to say, but there’s no point in saying Thibs was a good coach for the Wolves—he wasn’t. He may have been for other teams and at other stints—but he wasn’t for the Wolves (and there are a variety of reasons for that).

Even if Butler left on his own accord and that’s bad luck for Thibs, do you really think that Saunders (or most other coaches) couldn’t get an 8 seed and first round exit with KAT, Butler (two top 10-15 players) and a variety of solid role players? The improvement was due to an influx of talent, not coaching pushing players into situations to maximize their skill sets and outperform expectations

[Klomp]

We had a sensational improvement with Butler, but then Butler went psycho. Did Thibodeau make Butler go psycho. IMO going psycho is all on Butler.

If you believe the report that Butler requested a trade early in the offseason but Thibs said no, so Butler went psycho in order to force his way out of town.

[KGdaBom]

We had a sensational improvement with Butler, but then Butler went psycho. Did Thibodeau make Butler go psycho. IMO going psycho is all on Butler.

If you believe the report that Butler requested a trade early in the offseason but Thibs said no, so Butler went psycho in order to force his way out of town.

And IMO he is a POS to not honor his contract.

[Jedzz]

We had a sensational improvement with Butler, but then Butler went psycho. Did Thibodeau make Butler go psycho. IMO going psycho is all on Butler.

If you believe the report that Butler requested a trade early in the offseason but Thibs said no, so Butler went psycho in order to force his way out of town.

And IMO he is a POS to not honor his contract.

Like every person that gets **** on financially and passed over by lessor bums that leaves his company for greener pastures. All POS, right? The difference of course is this league has guaranteed contracts for massive ching and if you only have a year to ride out at multi millions I too hope they would. But I do recognize the timing of Butler's career in his decisions.

[Calinks]

Front office and coaching staff have been phenominal is trying to rehab Wiggins. I still think he is who he is but I am happy to see every effort taken to help boost his confidence and game. IF somehow he can manage to play at this pace, reliable scoring, some reboudns and assists, that alone would be worth the Rosas hire because it's a hell of a task shift Wiggins from what he has been into what he is in these last 3 games for a full season.

[Jedzz]

I think it is extremely hard to defend an idea that Thibs was able to design a system and a culture suited to maximize his best players (Towns/Wiggins/etc) strengths.

If you can’t defend that idea, I think it’s extremely hard to defend the idea that Thibs was not holding the team back.

We had a sensational improvement with Butler, but then Butler went psycho. Did Thibodeau make Butler go psycho. IMO going psycho is all on Butler.

Thibs used a lot of value to go and get Butler. The Wolves had the talent to go as far (arguably farther) with any coach in the league. The Wolves never got the value of the sum of the parts—they went that far in spite of Thibs.

Luke Walton had a great record with the Warriors as a head coach. That doesn’t mean he’s a good coach (he’s not).

The Wolves two best young assets regressed or at best did not progress. Butler hated the culture so badly he blew up and left. The parts Thibs put together didn’t fit and used up tons of cap flexibility. Etc. etc. etc.

It’s entirely possible that Thibs was a good coach for portions of his coaching career (he was), but he was not a good for the Timberwolves. He created a negative culture, a team that did not fit well together, and a system that was negative for his best players.

I see what you are trying to say, but there’s no point in saying Thibs was a good coach for the Wolves—he wasn’t. He may have been for other teams and at other stints—but he wasn’t for the Wolves (and there are a variety of reasons for that).

Even if Butler left on his own accord and that’s bad luck for Thibs, do you really think that Saunders (or most other coaches) couldn’t get an 8 seed and first round exit with KAT, Butler (two top 10-15 players) and a variety of solid role players? The improvement was due to an influx of talent, not coaching pushing players into situations to maximize their skill sets and outperform expectations

Not all of that is even remotely true.
They fit enough to make the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. They just weren't great friends on or off court. Neither was Jordan, Rodman, Pippen. They aren't required to be.

What really broke the back of this whole thing was the playing level of Wiggins at the time and the contract they gave him. No way around it. It set all the dominos in motion and Thibs was only one part of that decision.

Thibs being stubborn about playing roster, and barking during games are just fodder. We've got our own stubborn coach going right now with 40+ threes getting jacked a game even at 13% they won't quit. But hey, everyone is going to Kat's for gaming night and Saunders might come too so it's all good here bro.

It's never just one thing, and this wasn't just Wiggins contract, and THibs wasn't who he was here in a vacuum. Inside and Outside elements led to Thibs doing things a certain way that ultimately snowballed all that off court related hate. Saunders was always the plan of many and those people were aggressors in all this.

[DaKid]

Front office and coaching staff have been phenominal is trying to rehab Wiggins. I still think he is who he is but I am happy to see every effort taken to help boost his confidence and game. IF somehow he can manage to play at this pace, reliable scoring, some reboudns and assists, that alone would be worth the Rosas hire because it's a hell of a task shift Wiggins from what he has been into what he is in these last 3 games for a full season.

Wiggins is who he is and thibs didn't know how to use him. This Wiggins is all star caliber Wiggins. He's getting wherever he wants to go. I think the coaches can and will go to him more. He is just going to improve.

[PharmD]

Really like what i'm seeing from Wiggins still.

[PharmD]

Front office and coaching staff have been phenominal is trying to rehab Wiggins. I still think he is who he is but I am happy to see every effort taken to help boost his confidence and game. IF somehow he can manage to play at this pace, reliable scoring, some reboudns and assists, that alone would be worth the Rosas hire because it's a hell of a task shift Wiggins from what he has been into what he is in these last 3 games for a full season.

Wiggins is who he is and thibs didn't know how to use him. This Wiggins is all star caliber Wiggins. He's getting wherever he wants to go. I think the coaches can and will go to him more. He is just going to improve.

Actually at the start of Thibs' run he tried to use Wiggins as a primary ballhandler. That was a disaster as Wiggs' handle wasn't close to good enough yet and also because having Ricky Rubio standing in the corner for spacing was a major miscast too. That 6-18 start was about the worst I've ever seen a coach use his players. Luckily game 25 was against the Bulls, we were getting blown out in the first half (we lost the first quarter by 16), and Thibs let Ricky take the ball. LDO it worked, we came back to win, and Ricky was awesome for the rest of that season.

[Neeva]

Wiggs is a good player, a bit overpaid though but 20/21 million a year he would be a lot less hated then again Lavine makes that much and he’s been a lesser player thus far.

[DaKid]

Wiggs is a good player, a bit overpaid though but 20/21 million a year he would be a lot less hated then again Lavine makes that much and he’s been a lesser player thus far.

Definitely not overpaid playing like this.

[TheZachAttack]

We had a sensational improvement with Butler, but then Butler went psycho. Did Thibodeau make Butler go psycho. IMO going psycho is all on Butler.

Thibs used a lot of value to go and get Butler. The Wolves had the talent to go as far (arguably farther) with any coach in the league. The Wolves never got the value of the sum of the parts—they went that far in spite of Thibs.

Luke Walton had a great record with the Warriors as a head coach. That doesn’t mean he’s a good coach (he’s not).

The Wolves two best young assets regressed or at best did not progress. Butler hated the culture so badly he blew up and left. The parts Thibs put together didn’t fit and used up tons of cap flexibility. Etc. etc. etc.

It’s entirely possible that Thibs was a good coach for portions of his coaching career (he was), but he was not a good for the Timberwolves. He created a negative culture, a team that did not fit well together, and a system that was negative for his best players.

I see what you are trying to say, but there’s no point in saying Thibs was a good coach for the Wolves—he wasn’t. He may have been for other teams and at other stints—but he wasn’t for the Wolves (and there are a variety of reasons for that).

Even if Butler left on his own accord and that’s bad luck for Thibs, do you really think that Saunders (or most other coaches) couldn’t get an 8 seed and first round exit with KAT, Butler (two top 10-15 players) and a variety of solid role players? The improvement was due to an influx of talent, not coaching pushing players into situations to maximize their skill sets and outperform expectations

Not all of that is even remotely true.
They fit enough to make the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. They just weren't great friends on or off court. Neither was Jordan, Rodman, Pippen. They aren't required to be.

What really broke the back of this whole thing was the playing level of Wiggins at the time and the contract they gave him. No way around it. It set all the dominos in motion and Thibs was only one part of that decision.

Thibs being stubborn about playing roster, and barking during games are just fodder. We've got our own stubborn coach going right now with 40+ threes getting jacked a game even at 13% they won't quit. But hey, everyone is going to Kat's for gaming night and Saunders might come too so it's all good here bro.

It's never just one thing, and this wasn't just Wiggins contract, and THibs wasn't who he was here in a vacuum. Inside and Outside elements led to Thibs doing things a certain way that ultimately snowballed all that off court related hate. Saunders was always the plan of many and those people were aggressors in all this.

I agree the Wolves had a lot of talent and that talent (two top 15 players) dragged them to the playoffs despite subpar coaching, culture, and personality fit.

Thibs did not maximize the skill set and talent of the core pieces on the roster. Well really anyone on the roster.

Pretty much everyone signed by the Wolves played worse than pre or post Wolves (other than Rose). Saric, Wiggins, Covington, Towns, Teague, etc were all better players pre-Thibs and are better players post-Thibs.

Thibs did not make players better by good coaching and schemes putting players in good situations. The Wolves did not make the playoffs because Thibs was a good coach, they made the playoffs because they were a talented team.

[KGdaBom]

If you believe the report that Butler requested a trade early in the offseason but Thibs said no, so Butler went psycho in order to force his way out of town.

And IMO he is a POS to not honor his contract.

Like every person that gets **** on financially and passed over by lessor bums that leaves his company for greener pastures. All POS, right? The difference of course is this league has guaranteed contracts for massive ching and if you only have a year to ride out at multi millions I too hope they would. But I do recognize the timing of Butler's career in his decisions.

He signed the contract. He knew what the contract was. Anybody who does not honor his contract in my eyes is a POS.

[Jedzz]

I agree the Wolves had a lot of talent and that talent (two top 15 players) dragged them to the playoffs despite subpar coaching, culture, and personality fit.

Thibs did not maximize the skill set and talent of the core pieces on the roster. Well really anyone on the roster.

Pretty much everyone signed by the Wolves played worse than pre or post Wolves (other than Rose). Saric, Wiggins, Covington, Towns, Teague, etc were all better players pre-Thibs and are better players post-Thibs.

Thibs did not make players better by good coaching and schemes putting players in good situations. The Wolves did not make the playoffs because Thibs was a good coach, they made the playoffs because they were a talented team.

Again, you are writing your own narratives here and these things that can't be claimed as true.

[theGreatRC]

Liking what Wiggs has done so far this year..

24.6 ppg
4.8 rpg
2.9 apg
1.1 bpg

.46%FG

It's not just the stats either, the way he moves on the court is different. He's more active, handle is tighter, shot selection is a lot better & he's been pretty damn clutch

[Jedzz]

And IMO he is a POS to not honor his contract.

Like every person that gets **** on financially and passed over by lessor bums that leaves his company for greener pastures. All POS, right? The difference of course is this league has guaranteed contracts for massive ching and if you only have a year to ride out at multi millions I too hope they would. But I do recognize the timing of Butler's career in his decisions.

He signed the contract. He knew what the contract was. Anybody who does not honor his contract in my eyes is a POS.

yeah whatever. He was traded here. He signed nothing making this team's lunacy his to deal with. You can have your opinion and he's obviously shown he doesn't care if you have one. Just as his first team changed their mind on him and dealt him away, he chose to deal away his second team. It only cost him your respect.

[southern wolf]

He's definitely a lot more comfortable playing SG with the current line up. Love the spin move he's been breaking out.