2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

[GSP]

When do we start thinking of the East as a 3 team race?

Embiid and Giannis are prolly Siakams toughest matchups in the league. They shut his offense down completely specially in the halfcourt, including last playoffs for the series. Siakams handles and passing look much improved this year but he struggled in that Bucks game this season too. B/c of those 2 matchup issues for him i wouldnt feel like the Raptors are in the same class

[GSP]

I wonder how many more games Draymond will play without Steph before he calls it a season? Im hard pressed to think of 2 players whove benefited more historically from playing the vast majority of their minutes together during their best runs than these 2. Really an amazing fit and cover each others weaknesses about as well as a pairing can. Has made it difficult to parse out their individual impact over the past 5 years IMO

[AdagioPace]

I wonder how many more games Draymond will play without Steph before he calls it a season? Im hard pressed to think of 2 players whove benefited more historically from playing the vast majority of their minutes together during their best runs than these 2. Really an amazing fit and cover each others weaknesses about as well as a pairing can. Has made it difficult to parse out their individual impact over the past 5 years IMO

the one that immediately springs to mind is Stockton-Malone, but Curry-Draymond have been able to break the league by "fit" alone

[Dr Spaceman]

Mike Conley has now put together a couple of really solid games in a row.

[E-Balla]

Random thoughts:

I expected Luka to be this good... 5 years from now. This is absurd 2nd year production. I expected something like 24/9/7 on 55 TS% this year. Instead he seems to have leaped directly into what I thought would be his prime level production.

Told y'all DLo would right the ship. 23 years old averaging 26/4/6 on 57 TS% as a PG. If he kept this up he'd be only under West and Tiny in PPG for a PG 23 or younger. Problem is the team is still lacking NBA rotation level talent outside of him, WCS, Paschall, and Burks. Having Dray back should help but the team has looked terrible with him on the floor. His scoring does seem to be as crippling to a team lacking scoring options as previously thought.

Speaking of these young Gs producing Trae Young is also having an absurd season. I expected exactly this level of play from him though. I've been saying since last season he's one of the best PGs I've ever seen that young. Right now he's looking like a Chris Paul type savant when it comes to running the offense. They just stink on that end with him on the bench.

Jabari Parker was an ignored player who played extremely well after getting to Washington last year and now in Atlanta he's dunking on everything right now. I really wanted NY to take him these last few years but he finally found his spot as an athletic finisher next to Trae. Unfortunately his lateral movement has been terrible after all his injuries and he can't really run an offense himself right now. His jumper is also way worse than it was before his injury. As a poor man's Amar'e for Trae he might be better than Collins if he can go back to shooting 35% from deep and he's only 2 years older than Collins so he fits the timeline of the team. Great bargain deal.

Moving on to New Orleans I'm lost on how to feel about Brandon Ingram. He's obviously just shooting hot. He's 47% from deep and 56% from 3-15 feet (last year he was 33% from deep on way less volume and 41% from 3-15 feet) but even if those numbers get modest his offensive ability is legit it seems. I guess I was so low on him I didn't pay attention to the fact he does everything right outside of actually put the ball in the hoop. His defense is terrible though.

In Toronto I feel validated spending the whole offseason saying a large part of the Raps success was their strong roster outside of Kawhi and that they are legit contenders even without him. Pascal is why they're vastly improved but I stand by my notion that the Raptors played far under their expected level with Kawhi.

In the early season I told ya sos the one I was most confident in this offseason was probably Jimmy being a star player and making Miami a legit threat. His defense rebounded from last season and he's back to being one of the best perimeter defenders I've ever seen so far.

The most long running told ya so that's coming true now is JB finally living up to his potential. I've been telling you guys since he was at Wheeler he was going to be a great player and now he's looking like the 18 ppg guy I expected him to become in his prime. Him and Tatum look like it's the 2017 postseason again so far this year when available.

[Peregrine01]

Dray is such an interesting player...I’m struggling to find historical precedents. Has there ever been any player where if you put him on a really good team, he has an argument for most important player on the team but if you put him on a really bad team his impact not only disappears but he arguably makes them worse?

[Dr Spaceman]

Early season awards:

MVP
1. Aron “All of Australia” Baynes

...

2. Doesn’t really matter

DPOY
1. Aron “Really Put Together” Baynes

...

2. Anthony Davis

OPOY
1. Aron “Splash Bulldozer” Baynes

..

2. James Harden I guess

[AdagioPace]

Dray is such an interesting player...I’m struggling to find historical precedents. Has there ever been any player where if you put him on a really good team, he has an argument for most important player on the team but if you put him on a really bad team his impact not only disappears but he arguably makes them worse?

I think his performances are often dependant on the degree of enthusiasm surrounding him, which are often bound to the team's goals. He seems very psychologically conditionable and if the surrounding levels of adrenaline are not high he underperforms. Also, the fact that he doesn't consider himself a star makes it difficult for him to embrace that role in a tanking (sorry, *bad not tanking) team (despite him having the talent to be among the most impactful players). You put Harden anywhere and he performs like a superstar everywhere, dominating the ball! What we're seeing right now (considering similar circumstances) is Draymond lacking KG's offensive primacy that usually makes your teammates and media respect you; the feeling of being at the centre of a project that results in giving you reponsibilities to perform at the highest level for the NBA community (fans, coach, teammates, etc..) each night. Needless to say: this role also allows you to be an offensive floor raiser which Draymond is not (so well..)

I find myself in agreement with those people that in the past we're not convinced about Draymond's INVERSE-scalability....

[eminence]

How about that DPOY race though (sorry to Baynes, but I don't think he's a real contender).

For team defenses Jazz/Lakers in tier 1 and Sixers/Raptors/Heat in tier 2 (maybe the Magic as well). I've caught all the Jazz games (some a couple times), but only 2-3 games each for the other squads.

Gobert obviously still the pillar in Utah and looking as good as ever on that end.

Embiid/Horford not too surprising from the Sixers. I imagine if Embiid plays enough minutes he'll get the credit, but if he misses a bunch of time the defense will still be strong and Horford will get the credit he deserves and be a candidate.

Raptors viewers - has Siakam been good enough to deserve consideration? Otherwise looks like a very very strong cast effort to my eye.

Heat - an even more blatant depth case imo, their bench has been spectacular. Bam first among equals?

Lakers - think Dwight has been their best defensive guy (would've never guessed I'd say that before the season), higher minutes tip it in AD's favor though

Isaac/the Magic are great on D, but probably too weak overall to contend.

On teams that don't have spectacular defenses I'd say Giannis is the standout.

How would y'all rate the top ~5 so far? I'd have Gobert a clear #1, AD clear #2, and not sure where I'd go after that.

[yoyoboy]

It’s crazy how good Doncic and Trae Young already are.

Doncic:
28.3 ppg / 9.1 apg / 61.6% TS / 10.0 OBPM / 109.8 On-Court ORTG / +0.0 Off Net

Young:
28.0 ppg / 8.7 apg / 60.6% TS / 8.8 OBPM / 111.7 On-Court ORTG / +17.2 Off Net

I honestly don’t think people are talking enough about this considering how unthinkable it is that a 20 year old and a 21 year old would be already playing at this level in their second seasons.

[eminence]

It’s crazy how good Doncic and Trae Young already are.

Doncic:
28.3 ppg / 9.1 apg / 61.6% TS / 10.0 OBPM / 109.8 On-Court ORTG / +0.0 Off Net

Young:
28.0 ppg / 8.7 apg / 60.6% TS / 8.8 OBPM / 111.7 On-Court ORTG / +17.2 Off Net

I honestly don’t think people are talking enough about this considering how unthinkable it is that a 20 year old and a 21 year old would be already playing at this level in their second seasons.

I want to give this a double +1

It's crazy how well both are playing.

[The-Power]

How would y'all rate the top ~5 so far? I'd have Gobert a clear #1, AD clear #2, and not sure where I'd go after that.

I think Isaac has been up there with anybody this year. We'll see if he can sustain this level or if he's ‘just’ going to be a second-tier candidate for DPoY.

[Krodis]

Kawhi Leonard has quite a defensive reputation for a guy that doesn't even guard opposing stars anymore.

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[toodles23]

I could very well be overreacting to a bad stretch of games from Kawhi but I'm not sure his body is going to hold up this season even with load management. He does not look right physically.

[thebigbird]

Kawhi played 41 minutes tonight. He's going to need to sit the next three games to recover.

[Krodis]

I could very well be overreacting to a bad stretch of games from Kawhi but I'm not sure his body is going to hold up this season even with load management. He does not look right physically.

Maybe being able to take it easy on a team that could win 50+ in their sleep without him helped just a bit last year.

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[Colbinii]

Wiggins is better than your teams best player.

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[GSP]

Draymond has been one of the worst players in the league so far

what a horrible start. He looks absolutely awful when theres no consistent scoring/shooting options around him

[E-Balla]

Draymond has been one of the worst players in the league so far

what a horrible start. He looks absolutely awful when theres no consistent scoring/shooting options around him

And this isn't like Westbrook where he's clearly declined but still has his obvious positives to his game. Draymond's positive aspects aren't even really showing right now at all on the offensive end. It's all bad.

[Pillendreher]

157 minutes/352 possessions for Westbrook/Harden without Gordon next to them so far (per pbpstats.com):

111.7 ORtG (+3.4 relative to league average)
98.8 DRtG (-9.5 relative to league average)

+12.9 NetRtG

And now the 69 minutes/167 possessions with Gordon next to them:

103.6 ORtG (-4.7 relative to league average)
130.7 DRtG [NOT A TYPO] (+22.4 relative to league average)

Meanwhile Harden is averaging 18.8 FTA per 100 possessions, which is more than the Indiana Pacers as a team at 17.6 per 100 possessions.