ATL Week 11 - CLE-PIT suspensions and fines handed out, page 3

[MickeyDavis]

Division games

Broncos at Vikings
Bears at Rams
Cowboys at Lions

Texans at Ravens could be fun. Watson at Lamar. The last time these 2 faced off in college our very own Jaire Alexander picked off Watson twice.

Patriots at Eagles could be interesting

[Kerb Hohl]

Maybe. But they also didn’t win the Super Bowl last year.

The best sports argument.

Very bold on something that you have a 95% chance of being right on.


Before Cousins, the Vikings were a "QB away from being the best team in the NFC."

They now have that QB. If they don't win the Super Bowl with him, then no, it was not the best thing they could have done. It means there are probably other deficiencies that went unaddressed because they didn't have the $5-10 million.

The money that went to Cousins left them with no money to get a real 3rd WR or reinforce the Oline. They are trying to work around this by using the play action and roll outs to hold off the rush (their OLine can run block, but is small for pass blocking), and using the RBs and Irv Smith in the passing game. It's worked for the most part.

Where it fails (and quite miserably) is against a great front (See their last two games against the Bears).

I still think they are good, sometimes great, and we will lose at their place. (It appears Rhodes has really lost a step and may be the chink in the armor though).

The biggest game of the year besides @ MIN might be @ DET. I could see the 2nd tiebreaker coming into play.

Since everyone wants more of this argument, bringing it into this week.

The entire place where your guys' argument falls short is that "that extra $5-10 million" would mean that they'd be rolling with Case Keenum (yes, he had one magical year, but come on) or some other, **** QB. Like I said, Teddy might've been ideal in hindsight and I was always a Teddy guy, but I can understand why that marriage ended.

Also, this same argument you're making here about Cousins could apply to Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers is 5x the quarterback that Cousins is and he's making more cash than Cousins' massive contract. Wouldn't it be nice to have a stud ILB or another WR? That would be nice. Welcome to the NFL where the salary cap exists and every team is forced to play with holes when they are paying for a QB (unless it's extra cash under the table like it is for New England).

Also, everyone was making fun of the Vikings because the entire contract was guaranteed. It is becoming true/evident as argued that who gives a **** if the short-ish contract was guaranteed. There was going to be no reason that they'd want to completely cut him in 3 years anyways unless he got a career-ending injury.

As a Packer fan hoping to win the division, do you wish the Vikings currently had Case Keenum or like Mason Rudolph (a random draft pick 2 years ago) plus an extra offensive lineman (and an extra WR in Rudolph's case)? I would personally prefer that the Vikings sucked more so we could win the division easier.

[Balls2TheWalls]

Bengals cut Preston Brown, who just has not been the same player since joining the Bengals from the Bills. I wonder if a change of surroundings would help him. I don't know if he will clear waivers though.

ETA: Honestly, against the pass he was even very good last year. In 7 games he had 2 interceptions, 42 tackles (only 1 missed tackle), 70% completion rating against on 24 targets (53.5 QB Rating against), 4 PD, 2 INT. This season he has been Blake Martinez in coverage.

ETA: Also accidently wrote Preston Smith instead of Brown.

[RRyder823]

The best sports argument.

Very bold on something that you have a 95% chance of being right on.


Before Cousins, the Vikings were a "QB away from being the best team in the NFC."

They now have that QB. If they don't win the Super Bowl with him, then no, it was not the best thing they could have done. It means there are probably other deficiencies that went unaddressed because they didn't have the $5-10 million.

The money that went to Cousins left them with no money to get a real 3rd WR or reinforce the Oline. They are trying to work around this by using the play action and roll outs to hold off the rush (their OLine can run block, but is small for pass blocking), and using the RBs and Irv Smith in the passing game. It's worked for the most part.

Where it fails (and quite miserably) is against a great front (See their last two games against the Bears).

I still think they are good, sometimes great, and we will lose at their place. (It appears Rhodes has really lost a step and may be the chink in the armor though).

The biggest game of the year besides @ MIN might be @ DET. I could see the 2nd tiebreaker coming into play.

Since everyone wants more of this argument, bringing it into this week.

The entire place where your guys' argument falls short is that "that extra $5-10 million" would mean that they'd be rolling with Case Keenum (yes, he had one magical year, but come on) or some other, **** QB. Like I said, Teddy might've been ideal in hindsight and I was always a Teddy guy, but I can understand why that marriage ended.

Also, this same argument you're making here about Cousins could apply to Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers is 5x the quarterback that Cousins is and he's making more cash than Cousins' massive contract. Wouldn't it be nice to have a stud ILB or another WR? That would be nice. Welcome to the NFL where the salary cap exists and every team is forced to play with holes when they are paying for a QB (unless it's extra cash under the table like it is for New England).

Also, everyone was making fun of the Vikings because the entire contract was guaranteed. It is becoming true/evident as argued that who gives a **** if the short-ish contract was guaranteed. There was going to be no reason that they'd want to completely cut him in 3 years anyways unless he got a career-ending injury.

As a Packer fan hoping to win the division, do you wish the Vikings currently had Case Keenum or like Mason Rudolph (a random draft pick 2 years ago) plus an extra offensive lineman (and an extra WR in Rudolph's case)? I would personally prefer that the Vikings sucked more so we could win the division easier.

You keep talking about that extra 5-10 million as if it's nothing. That's a pro bowl offensive linemen or extra pair of quality starters.

Pretty sure the Vikings wouldve been MUCH better off with Keenum/Teddy B and signing a Pro Bowl linemen or, in a hellish world for us, Keenum/Teddy B drafting Lamar Jackson and and more help on the o line or a couple quality starters elsewhere.

Instead of either of those they have Cousins..... They **** up. You can say hindsight all you want but when many said it was a mistake before the ink was dry I wouldn't say that holds weight

Just like the Bears choosing Trubisky over Watson and Mahomes those are the types of mistakes (no matter how "understandable") that make the difference between being a mediocre team and a great team.

The Vikings **** up and many saw it comming

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[Kerb Hohl]

The money that went to Cousins left them with no money to get a real 3rd WR or reinforce the Oline. They are trying to work around this by using the play action and roll outs to hold off the rush (their OLine can run block, but is small for pass blocking), and using the RBs and Irv Smith in the passing game. It's worked for the most part.

Where it fails (and quite miserably) is against a great front (See their last two games against the Bears).

I still think they are good, sometimes great, and we will lose at their place. (It appears Rhodes has really lost a step and may be the chink in the armor though).

The biggest game of the year besides @ MIN might be @ DET. I could see the 2nd tiebreaker coming into play.

Since everyone wants more of this argument, bringing it into this week.

The entire place where your guys' argument falls short is that "that extra $5-10 million" would mean that they'd be rolling with Case Keenum (yes, he had one magical year, but come on) or some other, **** QB. Like I said, Teddy might've been ideal in hindsight and I was always a Teddy guy, but I can understand why that marriage ended.

Also, this same argument you're making here about Cousins could apply to Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers is 5x the quarterback that Cousins is and he's making more cash than Cousins' massive contract. Wouldn't it be nice to have a stud ILB or another WR? That would be nice. Welcome to the NFL where the salary cap exists and every team is forced to play with holes when they are paying for a QB (unless it's extra cash under the table like it is for New England).

Also, everyone was making fun of the Vikings because the entire contract was guaranteed. It is becoming true/evident as argued that who gives a **** if the short-ish contract was guaranteed. There was going to be no reason that they'd want to completely cut him in 3 years anyways unless he got a career-ending injury.

As a Packer fan hoping to win the division, do you wish the Vikings currently had Case Keenum or like Mason Rudolph (a random draft pick 2 years ago) plus an extra offensive lineman (and an extra WR in Rudolph's case)? I would personally prefer that the Vikings sucked more so we could win the division easier.

You keep talking about that extra 5-10 million as if it's nothing. That's a pro bowl offensive linemen or extra pair of quality starters.

Pretty sure the Vikings wouldve been MUCH better off with Keenum/Teddy B and signing a Pro Bowl linemen or, in a hellish world for us, Keenum/Teddy B drafting Lamar Jackson and and more help on the o line or a couple quality starters elsewhere.

Instead of either of those they have Cousins..... They **** up. You can say hindsight all you want but when many said it was a mistake before the ink was dry I wouldn't say that holds weight

Just like the Bears choosing Trubisky over Watson and Mahomes those are the types of mistakes (no matter how "understandable") that make the difference between being a mediocre team and a great team.

The Vikings **** up and many saw it comming

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Oh yeah, they would've drafted the superstar QB and would not have tripped over the landmine of the 10 bad QBs in those ranges.

I'm going to hold Gute to the fire. We could've traded away Rodgers for 3 1sts a few years ago and drafted Lamar Jackson. I see no downside of this. Instead, Rodgers is taking up enough cap that we can't surround him with enough talent. I will hold this opinion because we probably won't win the Super Bowl so I will therefore be right.

I'd take Cousins over Keenum + a lineman. Bridgewater I get but there was risk there.

There's an ideal path and a perfectly fine/this works path. I'd say Cousins was "this is fine, it works, not a bad idea." As bad as Lamar Jackson on the Vikings sounds right now, I still would maybe take that risk of the Vikings getting him with a large chance that they end up with Mason Rudolph or Josh Rosen and the Packers are 3-4 games ahead in the division right now.

[RRyder823]

Since everyone wants more of this argument, bringing it into this week.

The entire place where your guys' argument falls short is that "that extra $5-10 million" would mean that they'd be rolling with Case Keenum (yes, he had one magical year, but come on) or some other, **** QB. Like I said, Teddy might've been ideal in hindsight and I was always a Teddy guy, but I can understand why that marriage ended.

Also, this same argument you're making here about Cousins could apply to Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers is 5x the quarterback that Cousins is and he's making more cash than Cousins' massive contract. Wouldn't it be nice to have a stud ILB or another WR? That would be nice. Welcome to the NFL where the salary cap exists and every team is forced to play with holes when they are paying for a QB (unless it's extra cash under the table like it is for New England).

Also, everyone was making fun of the Vikings because the entire contract was guaranteed. It is becoming true/evident as argued that who gives a **** if the short-ish contract was guaranteed. There was going to be no reason that they'd want to completely cut him in 3 years anyways unless he got a career-ending injury.

As a Packer fan hoping to win the division, do you wish the Vikings currently had Case Keenum or like Mason Rudolph (a random draft pick 2 years ago) plus an extra offensive lineman (and an extra WR in Rudolph's case)? I would personally prefer that the Vikings sucked more so we could win the division easier.

You keep talking about that extra 5-10 million as if it's nothing. That's a pro bowl offensive linemen or extra pair of quality starters.

Pretty sure the Vikings wouldve been MUCH better off with Keenum/Teddy B and signing a Pro Bowl linemen or, in a hellish world for us, Keenum/Teddy B drafting Lamar Jackson and and more help on the o line or a couple quality starters elsewhere.

Instead of either of those they have Cousins..... They **** up. You can say hindsight all you want but when many said it was a mistake before the ink was dry I wouldn't say that holds weight

Just like the Bears choosing Trubisky over Watson and Mahomes those are the types of mistakes (no matter how "understandable") that make the difference between being a mediocre team and a great team.

The Vikings **** up and many saw it comming

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Oh yeah, they would've drafted the superstar QB and would not have tripped over the landmine of the 10 bad QBs in those ranges.

I'm going to hold Gute to the fire. We could've traded away Rodgers for 3 1sts a few years ago and drafted Lamar Jackson. I see no downside of this. Instead, Rodgers is taking up enough cap that we can't surround him with enough talent. I will hold this opinion because we probably won't win the Super Bowl so I will therefore be right.

I'd take Cousins over Keenum + a lineman. Bridgewater I get but there was risk there.

There's an ideal path and a perfectly fine/this works path. I'd say Cousins was "this is fine, it works, not a bad idea." As bad as Lamar Jackson on the Vikings sounds right now, I still would maybe take that risk of the Vikings getting him with a large chance that they end up with Mason Rudolph or Josh Rosen and the Packers are 3-4 games ahead in the division right now.

Well for one the point was they couldve kept a comparable (seriously Cousins is isnt that good) but cheaper QB and drafted one to develop while leaving extra cap to shore up holes and wouldve been a better team in a better position moving forward. That's a MUCH better scenario for the Vikings then they currently have and one that many of were happy didnt take place the moment Cousins signed

Secondly did you really just compare a hypothetical Rodgers trade to signing Kirk freaking Cousins?

Thirdly yes. Rodgers contract is a BIG concern for the Packers and if hes not able to perform at a near MVP level for most of the contract it will hamstring the Packers as when that much of the cap is tied up in a player they NEED to be that type of player.

(also it wouldn't been tripping over a landmine of QBs to draft Jackson. He was pretty much the only QB that went in the range that the Vikings selected the year they signed Cousins. It wouldve been more of "they drafted a QB out of need to develop one to take over for their one/two year stop gap and Jackson was the guy that was there")

Fourthly this is strange hill to die on



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[Kerb Hohl]

You keep talking about that extra 5-10 million as if it's nothing. That's a pro bowl offensive linemen or extra pair of quality starters.

Pretty sure the Vikings wouldve been MUCH better off with Keenum/Teddy B and signing a Pro Bowl linemen or, in a hellish world for us, Keenum/Teddy B drafting Lamar Jackson and and more help on the o line or a couple quality starters elsewhere.

Instead of either of those they have Cousins..... They **** up. You can say hindsight all you want but when many said it was a mistake before the ink was dry I wouldn't say that holds weight

Just like the Bears choosing Trubisky over Watson and Mahomes those are the types of mistakes (no matter how "understandable") that make the difference between being a mediocre team and a great team.

The Vikings **** up and many saw it comming

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Oh yeah, they would've drafted the superstar QB and would not have tripped over the landmine of the 10 bad QBs in those ranges.

I'm going to hold Gute to the fire. We could've traded away Rodgers for 3 1sts a few years ago and drafted Lamar Jackson. I see no downside of this. Instead, Rodgers is taking up enough cap that we can't surround him with enough talent. I will hold this opinion because we probably won't win the Super Bowl so I will therefore be right.

I'd take Cousins over Keenum + a lineman. Bridgewater I get but there was risk there.

There's an ideal path and a perfectly fine/this works path. I'd say Cousins was "this is fine, it works, not a bad idea." As bad as Lamar Jackson on the Vikings sounds right now, I still would maybe take that risk of the Vikings getting him with a large chance that they end up with Mason Rudolph or Josh Rosen and the Packers are 3-4 games ahead in the division right now.

Well for one the point was they couldve kept a comparable (seriously Cousins is isnt that good) but cheaper QB and drafted one to develop while leaving extra cap to shore up holes and wouldve been a better team in a better position moving forward. That's a MUCH better scenario for the Vikings then they currently have and one that many of were happy didnt take place the moment Cousins signed

Secondly did you really just compare a hypothetical Rodgers trade to signing Kirk freaking Cousins?

Thirdly yes. Rodgers contract is a BIG concern for the Packers and if hes not able to perform at a near MVP level for most of the contract it will hamstring the Packers as when that much of the cap is tied up in a player they NEED to be that type of player.

(also it wouldn't been tripping over a landmine of QBs to draft Jackson. He was pretty much the only QB that went in the range that the Vikings selected the year they signed Cousins. It wouldve been more of "they drafted a QB out of need to develop one to take over for their one/two year stop gap and Jackson was the guy that was there")

Fourthly this is strange hill to die on



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The hypothetical Rodgers trade makes sense to me. Why pay a QB $35 million/year for most subsequent years when you could assume you're going to draft a good QB and spend $30 million in extra cash on a supporting cast?

I'm not crowning the Vikings as champions or absolute geniuses but it's just a response to the people that laughed at the paycheck for Cousins. He's overpaid but when the only piece you need is a QB and the rest of your roster has a ~4 year window, this seemed like a pretty logical move. And unfortunately it's a competitor to the Packers this year.

I'd love to be in an AFC East situation while the Vikings are trying to take their time developing Josh Rosen while Griffen, Barr, Smith, Thielen, Diggs, Cook, etc. all age out of their primes.

[Profound23]

At the end of the day can we all just agree the Vikings and Bears suck at scouting QBs and leave it at that?

[Kerb Hohl]

I will agree that the Vikings should've drafted another guy to groom behind Kirk last year or this year. That seems to be a problem with them. Yeah, they struck out on Ponder but otherwise they're never even trying to groom a new guy.

[neiLz]

Bengals cut Preston Brown, who just has not been the same player since joining the Bengals from the Bills. I wonder if a change of surroundings would help him. I don't know if he will clear waivers though.

ETA: Honestly, against the pass he was even very good last year. In 7 games he had 2 interceptions, 42 tackles (only 1 missed tackle), 70% completion rating against on 24 targets (53.5 QB Rating against), 4 PD, 2 INT. This season he has been Blake Martinez in coverage.

ETA: Also accidently wrote Preston Smith instead of Brown.

Wonder if they bring him in? Perfect time with the bye. Could get him acclimated with the defense if they chose to sign him.

[humanrefutation]

The Cousins signing was, oddly, the safe choice for them. Yes, his contract was terrible, but he was a trick-or-treat QB who had shown enough flashes of being good that it seemed like a worthy gamble. Keenum was a fluke, and at best, he didn't take a lot off the table. Cousins, at best, could give them just enough with the weapons around him to win a Super Bowl.

[Ron Swanson]

Lol, dude, you're still on about the Cousins thing? The Vikings massively overpaid a mediocre starting QB and the long-term prognosis of their team is worse because of it. Look at what a guy like Bridgewater just did down in NO in place of Brees. If you don't have the opportunity to acquire a truly elite QB (which they ironically did in the 2017 and '18 drafts), then you don't hard-cap yourself with the Andy Daltons and Kirk Cousins of the world simply because you think that "it's the best you can do". I'm just glad the Vikings are only a smart organization like, 30-40% of the time.

[Kerb Hohl]

Lol, dude, you're still on about the Cousins thing? The Vikings massively overpaid a mediocre starting QB and the long-term prognosis of their team is worse because of it. Look at what a guy like Bridgewater just did down in NO in place of Brees. If you don't have the opportunity to acquire a truly elite QB (which they ironically did in the 2017 and '18 drafts), then you don't hard-cap yourself with the Andy Daltons and Kirk Cousins of the world simply because you think that "it's the best you can do". I'm just glad the Vikings are only a smart organization like, 30-40% of the time.

If you are so certain they can just easily pluck an stud QB from the draft waters, then their-long term prognosis is not messed up. They'll just draft one in 2020 or 2021. I mean, it's just that easy, right? The Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Bengals, Washington, etc., etc. ,etc. all understand how easy it is to just say, "we don't have an elite QB...let's just draft one. OK, done."

If my team was the 2017/2018 Vikings, I would definitely get the best QB I can. I would've also respected trying to draft one but personally I"d be happy if the Vikings were 4-6 right now trying to get Josh Rosen going. Of course they could've landed Lamar but odds are that teams looking for QBs usually end up with a mediocre/**** one. And when I say ****, I am not talking about what hot take people say about Kirk Cousins, I'm saying a guy that struggles to throw for 150 yards in half of their games.

[RRyder823]

Lol, dude, you're still on about the Cousins thing? The Vikings massively overpaid a mediocre starting QB and the long-term prognosis of their team is worse because of it. Look at what a guy like Bridgewater just did down in NO in place of Brees. If you don't have the opportunity to acquire a truly elite QB (which they ironically did in the 2017 and '18 drafts), then you don't hard-cap yourself with the Andy Daltons and Kirk Cousins of the world simply because you think that "it's the best you can do". I'm just glad the Vikings are only a smart organization like, 30-40% of the time.

If you are so certain they can just easily pluck an stud QB from the draft waters, then their-long term prognosis is not messed up. They'll just draft one in 2020 or 2021. I mean, it's just that easy, right? The Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Bengals, Washington, etc., etc. ,etc. all understand how easy it is to just say, "we don't have an elite QB...let's just draft one. OK, done."

If my team was the 2017/2018 Vikings, I would definitely get the best QB I can. I would've also respected trying to draft one but personally I"d be happy if the Vikings were 4-6 right now trying to get Josh Rosen going. Of course they could've landed Lamar but odds are that teams looking for QBs usually end up with a mediocre/**** one. And when I say ****, I am not talking about what hot take people say about Kirk Cousins, I'm saying a guy that struggles to throw for 150 yards in half of their games.

By this logic the Bears should throw 40 million a year guarenteed at Newton in the offseason....... On second thought I support this notion

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[Kerb Hohl]

Lol, dude, you're still on about the Cousins thing? The Vikings massively overpaid a mediocre starting QB and the long-term prognosis of their team is worse because of it. Look at what a guy like Bridgewater just did down in NO in place of Brees. If you don't have the opportunity to acquire a truly elite QB (which they ironically did in the 2017 and '18 drafts), then you don't hard-cap yourself with the Andy Daltons and Kirk Cousins of the world simply because you think that "it's the best you can do". I'm just glad the Vikings are only a smart organization like, 30-40% of the time.

If you are so certain they can just easily pluck an stud QB from the draft waters, then their-long term prognosis is not messed up. They'll just draft one in 2020 or 2021. I mean, it's just that easy, right? The Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Bengals, Washington, etc., etc. ,etc. all understand how easy it is to just say, "we don't have an elite QB...let's just draft one. OK, done."

If my team was the 2017/2018 Vikings, I would definitely get the best QB I can. I would've also respected trying to draft one but personally I"d be happy if the Vikings were 4-6 right now trying to get Josh Rosen going. Of course they could've landed Lamar but odds are that teams looking for QBs usually end up with a mediocre/**** one. And when I say ****, I am not talking about what hot take people say about Kirk Cousins, I'm saying a guy that struggles to throw for 150 yards in half of their games.

By this logic the Bear should throw 40 million a year guarenteed at Newton in the offseason....... On second thought I support this notion

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They don't have the cap space but, uhhh...I mean, are you reading what you write? The Bears have Mack and a loaded defense + some talent on offense. One could argue that Cam is just broken but if he's the Cam of the past, you are saying, "yes, yes, I would love to put another 12-4 team in the division during the last few years of Rodgers being reliably good because lol they'd be overpaying their quarterback."

"They may win the division, knocking the Packers out of the playoffs...but we'll have the last laugh. They'll be paying too much for a good, not great quarterback! Ha ha ha!"

That's the entire point here with Cousins as well. I don't care how much the QB is paid. I don't care if they are likely capping themselves in the "good, but probably won't win the SB" range (by the way, that's where the Packers have lived for 5 years now)...it's a good idea to get a really good QB when you have a great team around him.

Of course if everything is perfect for my franchise, I'd go out and draft a QB and I'd knock it out of the park. If that's not where I'm sitting, nuance exists in the idea that I'd try to acquire a good QB even if I'm forced to overpay a bit (if I have a good team to build with).

So yes, I know that the chance that if the Bears somehow made space to sign Cam for $40m/year (he won't cost that realistically) without destroying their current supporting cast, I would not like that as a Packer fan. Now I also understand that could kill their cap for like 1-2 years until they can cut him if he's broken/bad but I prefer the Bears just being bad when the Packers are trying to win. And yes, I do understand that it means another year or two delay of them drafting/developing the QB of the future, but if they're smart, they'd sign Cam and draft a QB in the 2nd round.

[RRyder823]

If you are so certain they can just easily pluck an stud QB from the draft waters, then their-long term prognosis is not messed up. They'll just draft one in 2020 or 2021. I mean, it's just that easy, right? The Jets, Dolphins, Raiders, Bengals, Washington, etc., etc. ,etc. all understand how easy it is to just say, "we don't have an elite QB...let's just draft one. OK, done."

If my team was the 2017/2018 Vikings, I would definitely get the best QB I can. I would've also respected trying to draft one but personally I"d be happy if the Vikings were 4-6 right now trying to get Josh Rosen going. Of course they could've landed Lamar but odds are that teams looking for QBs usually end up with a mediocre/**** one. And when I say ****, I am not talking about what hot take people say about Kirk Cousins, I'm saying a guy that struggles to throw for 150 yards in half of their games.

By this logic the Bear should throw 40 million a year guarenteed at Newton in the offseason....... On second thought I support this notion

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They don't have the cap space but, uhhh...I mean, are you reading what you write? The Bears have Mack and a loaded defense + some talent on offense. One could argue that Cam is just broken but if he's the Cam of the past, you are saying, "yes, yes, I would love to put another 12-4 team in the division during the last few years of Rodgers being reliably good because lol they'd be overpaying their quarterback."

"They may win the division, knocking the Packers out of the playoffs...but we'll have the last laugh. They'll be paying too much for a good, not great quarterback! Ha ha ha!"

That's the entire point here with Cousins as well. I don't care how much the QB is paid. I don't care if they are likely capping themselves in the "good, but probably won't win the SB" range (by the way, that's where the Packers have lived for 5 years now)...it's a good idea to get a really good QB when you have a great team around him.

Of course if everything is perfect for my franchise, I'd go out and draft a QB and I'd knock it out of the park. If that's not where I'm sitting, nuance exists in the idea that I'd try to acquire a good QB even if I'm forced to overpay a bit (if I have a good team to build with).

Ugh. I'll try this one more time for posterity. If you significantly over pay for a position (even QB) it hurts your team. I'm not sure why you think differently. Cousins is a very average QB that got paid like an elite guy. That's not a good idea and hurts a team in the long haul and diesnt have the desired impact un the short term. That's pretty much the definition of bad team building.

Just about the only way to justify a overpay like that is if they think it puts them over the top as a contending team. I get the logic. That's why the Vikings did it. Problem is it was a bad idea from the beginning because Cousins himself isnt good enough to make that kind of a difference so it didnt work.

Most of us saw that comming. You seem to think that making that move was somehow good because they didnt fall off a cliff

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[Kerb Hohl]

Problem is it was a bad idea from the beginning because Cousins himself isnt good enough to make that kind of a difference so it didnt work.

We're sitting here in week 11 of his 2nd season on the team and it already has been marked, "did not work."

The only reason the Packers are [very, very slightly] better is because we were given an MVP quarterback 14 years ago. The Vikings are a very dangerous team that could very well make the Super Bowl. They're going to be in the playoffs for sure.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2019-nfl-predictions/

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/

http://sagarin.com/sports/nflsend.htm

Again, I'd have loved it if the Vikings tried to draft a QB because it was "the right thing to do" with the loaded team they had. I've watched the AFC East trip over their own dicks for 2 decades trying to hang with the Patriots that way.

And for the record, I do think that it is still the "right" way to go about it. Draft a QB or take a shot on a cheaper guy like Bridgewater in most cases. But I'm just saying what the Vikings did was fine and not as stupid as somewhere saying because, "lol look at the guaranteed money."

Alright, done.

[Balls2TheWalls]

The Vikings manage the cap like a 12 year old playing Madden. They already have to make significant cuts to get under the cap NEXT YEAR and also will need money to sign their draft picks. They are up against having to make some difficult decisions. Kirk Cousins' contract is going to be the catalyst for them having to dismantle one of the best defenses in recent history.

[humanrefutation]

If they could have gone the route of drafting a QB, and if it works - as rare as that is - they're golden. They're obviously in the perfect position for contention. It's the bet the Seahawks made with Russell Wilson, the Chiefs have made with Patrick Mahomes, the Texans have made with DeShaun Watson. It's also the bet the Bears made with Trubisky when they gave out big money deals to Mack et al.

The problem is what happens if it fails - which it often does (see: Chicago Bears, 2019). Then, while you're spending 2-3 years studying whether the guy you drafted high is good enough, you're watching the talent at the skill positions on offense and defense slowly age, use up their rookie deals and need to get paid big time - all while you're flailing at 6-10/7-9. By the time you find that guy, even if he's a rookie, you might have missed that window.

That's why spending big money on an average/above-average QB is the safe choice. It's not the obvious choice - if you trust your scouting, if you trust your talent evaluation, then you might want to make a gamble. But if you fail...ooof.

[Kerb Hohl]

The Vikings manage the cap like a 12 year old playing Madden. They already have to make significant cuts to get under the cap NEXT YEAR and also will need money to sign their draft picks. They are up against having to make some difficult decisions. Kirk Cousins' contract is going to be the catalyst for them having to dismantle one of the best defenses in recent history.

It's probably going to be Everson Griffen who they probably weren't even sure was going to make it to next season in one piece with the issues he's had. If they cut him, they should have enough room in their cap to draft and maybe add a player.

Definitely risky and they may be a dumpster fire in 2-3 years, I won't mind it.

I think the one thing they should've been doing now is drafting a QB to groom behind Cousins. They may do that next year but they should've been working on it already.