Khris Middleton Thread

[TroyD92]

A few guys from the bench can launch a brick at an efficiency that is somewhat close to Khris's to make the difference barely noticeable. Middleton's unique advantage is on defense funny enough, he's the only guy who is tall enough and mobile enough to guard 3s and taller guards and help pack the paint a bit at the same time. Basically he's our designated Kawhi defender. We don't have anyone else who can do that, Stirling/Pat/DDV/Hill/Wes are too small. That's a hole we've had in our roster for years but Khris played so many minutes we never noticed.

Unless you want to give Giannis that assignment on D but we probably don't want to have him running around too much. Maybe Connaughton is the closest thing (defensively).

What? How are Sterling and Pat too small ? Brogdon guarded Kawhi and he’s smaller than both

How? They are 1.96m, Khris is 2.03m

I said Brogdon not Khris.

[emunney]

Brogdon is 6-5 229
Pat is 6-5 209
Sterling is 6-5 219

Brogdon biggest

[crkone]

Brogdon is 6-5 229
Pat is 6-5 209
Sterling is 6-5 219

Brogdon biggest

He's also got the biggest wingspan, almost the same as Middleton.

[TroyD92]

Brogdon is 6-5 229
Pat is 6-5 209
Sterling is 6-5 219

Brogdon biggest

Cool we let the Kawhi stopper leave. Middleton didn't stop him.

[buckboy]

If we are still beating good teams and carrying a +8-10 point differential with Khris out, and i think that's definitely possible, it makes me feel fortunate that we signed khris instead of letting him walk.

Respectfully, I'd feel the opposite. i.e. he's replaceable, and it likely would impact his trade value. i.e. other teams thinking that Giannis is the magic beans for all of these guys (Midds, Bledsoe, Lopez, etc.)

Middleton hit the lottery by being Giannis running mate for the last 6 years. Mids plays a perfect complementary role to Giannis, but, not one that couldn't be filled by a number of other guys. Put Bojan next to Giannis last few year and he probably gets a $150M contract from Bucks this past summer.

Must be some recency bias here. Khris is a much better player than Bojan.

I get and agree with the point somewhat. I think clearly that many players could have done as well as Khris has considering Giannis. Maybe not as many as you think, but yeah, he owes Giannis a lot.

[Pachinko_]

Yeah I didn't say Khris stopped Kawhi or anything, just that he was the most suitable to guard Kawhi and other SFs and bigger guards. Especially among guys still on our roster now that Brogdon is gone.

Brogdon was a bit unusual because he is really strong with a long wingspan and could kinda do it for stretches, not sure we have a similar guy right now. Sterling is an effective defender only on smaller guys in my mind but I might be wrong, I guess we'll find out.

[AussieBuck]

Need a strong guy with a good flop game for Kawhi, can't just let him do his left arm/shoulder fend all day. Ersan is our only guy with a good flop and he immediately got a charge against Leonard on a switch. Interested to see Smart vs Kawhi.

[slos]

I think Bud will go now to an 11 man rotation where everybody will have his chance to prove himself until Middleton returns.

Bledsoe (28).......Hill (20)
Matthews (26).....DDV (18).............Hill (4)
Brown (20).........Korver (14)..........Pat (14)
Giannis (34)........Ilyasova (14)
Lopez (28)..........Lopez (16)..........Ilyasova (4)

Bled, Hill, Wes, Kyle, Pat will keep their minutes and there is no point playing them more.
Obviously this is a big chance for Sterling and Donte to make a big step forward.
Wilson won't play, this changes nothing for him.

[AussieBuck]

I think Bud will go now to an 11 man rotation where everybody will have his chance to prove himself until Middleton returns.

Bledsoe (28).......Hill (20)
Matthews (26).....DDV (18).............Hill (4)
Brown (20).........Korver (14)..........Pat (14)
Giannis (34)........Ilyasova (14)
Lopez (28)..........Lopez (16)..........Ilyasova (4)

Bled, Hill, Wes, Kyle, Pat will keep their minutes and there is no point playing them more.
Obviously this is a big chance for Sterling and Donte to make a big step forward.
Wilson won't play, this changes nothing for him.

I'm hoping to see more of the small ball stuff with combinations of 4 perimeter guys and Giannis.

Hill
Donte
Korver
Brown
Giannis

[Pachinko_]

I think Bud will go now to an 11 man rotation where everybody will have his chance to prove himself until Middleton returns.

Bledsoe (28).......Hill (20)
Matthews (26).....DDV (18).............Hill (4)
Brown (20).........Korver (14)..........Pat (14)
Giannis (34)........Ilyasova (14)
Lopez (28)..........Lopez (16)..........Ilyasova (4)

Bled, Hill, Wes, Kyle, Pat will keep their minutes and there is no point playing them more.
Obviously this is a big chance for Sterling and Donte to make a big step forward.
Wilson won't play, this changes nothing for him.

I'm hoping to see more of the small ball stuff with combinations of 4 perimeter guys and Giannis.

Hill
Donte
Korver
Brown
Giannis

Which brings me back to my point, don't you see anything wrong with this lineup in terms of defense?

Generally on our roster we have big defenders, small defenders, and not much in between other than Khris (and maybe Giannis but you don't really wanna waste his stamina chasing smaller guys around for too long)

[Baddy Chuck]

Brogdon is 6-5 229
Pat is 6-5 209
Sterling is 6-5 219

Brogdon biggest

Cool we let the Kawhi stopper leave. Middleton didn't stop him.

Kawhi put up 30/10/4/2/1 against us, nobody stopped him.

[AussieBuck]

I think Bud will go now to an 11 man rotation where everybody will have his chance to prove himself until Middleton returns.

Bledsoe (28).......Hill (20)
Matthews (26).....DDV (18).............Hill (4)
Brown (20).........Korver (14)..........Pat (14)
Giannis (34)........Ilyasova (14)
Lopez (28)..........Lopez (16)..........Ilyasova (4)

Bled, Hill, Wes, Kyle, Pat will keep their minutes and there is no point playing them more.
Obviously this is a big chance for Sterling and Donte to make a big step forward.
Wilson won't play, this changes nothing for him.

I'm hoping to see more of the small ball stuff with combinations of 4 perimeter guys and Giannis.

Hill
Donte
Korver
Brown
Giannis

Which brings me back to my point, don't you see anything wrong with this lineup in terms of defense?

Generally on our roster we have big defenders, small defenders, and not much in between other than Khris (and maybe Giannis but you don't really wanna waste his stamina chasing smaller guys around for too long)

We absolutely have a lack of small ball PF options when Giannis is at C but I'm will to bet that Sterling grades out better than Khris there. Khris looks like nobody has ever taught him a single thing about interior defense. Has never boxed out, hates playing post D, no rim protection. Sterling just loves banging, I'll back him over any of our other wings. Shame Donte isn't a few inches taller, him and Bledsoe would both make great defensive bigs with some more height.

[Pachinko_]

I'm hoping to see more of the small ball stuff with combinations of 4 perimeter guys and Giannis.

Hill
Donte
Korver
Brown
Giannis

Which brings me back to my point, don't you see anything wrong with this lineup in terms of defense?

Generally on our roster we have big defenders, small defenders, and not much in between other than Khris (and maybe Giannis but you don't really wanna waste his stamina chasing smaller guys around for too long)

We absolutely have a lack of small ball PF options when Giannis is at C but I'm will to bet that Sterling grades out better than Khris there. Khris looks like nobody has ever taught him a single thing about interior defense. Has never boxed out, hates playing post D, no rim protection. Sterling just loves banging, I'll back him over any of our other wings. Shame Donte isn't a few inches taller, him and Bledsoe would both make great defensive bigs with some more height.

I'm not talking about small ball PFs though, i'm talking about small forwards, we just don't have any.

[TD75]

I would also like to see the following lineup to be honest.

Hill
Brown
GIannis
DJ
Brook

The key concept in this lineup is that everyone (but Giannis??) can shoot from distance and it has high upside on defense (size/length). It has not been used this season. If you want to exchange a bit of long range shooting for defense I would also like to see

Bledsoe
Brown
GIannis
DJ
Brook

Again this lineup has not been used this season.

Can also exchange Brown with DDV in this scenarios.

[TroyD92]

Hill
DDV
Brown
Giannis
Brook/DJ

is interesting too.

[AussieBuck]

I would also like to see the following lineup to be honest.

Hill
Brown
GIannis
DJ
Brook

The key concept in this lineup is that everyone (but Giannis??) can shoot from distance and it has high upside on defense (size/length). It has not been used this season. If you want to exchange a bit of long range shooting for defense I would also like to see

Bledsoe
Brown
GIannis
DJ
Brook

Again this lineup has not been used this season.

Can also exchange Brown with DDV in this scenarios.

Not enough man movement off the ball or ball skills to attack closeouts when we go big. It's fine when things are going well but nothing seems to free the team up against the stop Giannis at all costs defenses other than having quick quys who can dribble and shoot.

[AussieBuck]

Which brings me back to my point, don't you see anything wrong with this lineup in terms of defense?

Generally on our roster we have big defenders, small defenders, and not much in between other than Khris (and maybe Giannis but you don't really wanna waste his stamina chasing smaller guys around for too long)

We absolutely have a lack of small ball PF options when Giannis is at C but I'm will to bet that Sterling grades out better than Khris there. Khris looks like nobody has ever taught him a single thing about interior defense. Has never boxed out, hates playing post D, no rim protection. Sterling just loves banging, I'll back him over any of our other wings. Shame Donte isn't a few inches taller, him and Bledsoe would both make great defensive bigs with some more height.

I'm not talking about small ball PFs though, i'm talking about small forwards, we just don't have any.

It's essentially the same thing. We have no big wings other than Khris and he is basically a long, slow SG by skillset. It's why I look longingly at Otto Porter despite him being a very well paid Lando Calrissian lookalike. (possibly not that relevant)

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

any great player like Giannis improves the cast around him. honeslty I think middleton would be even better if it wasn't Giannis tho. a dynamic passing and shooting pg would benefit middleton even more than Giannis in that role. we talk about the gravity Giannis creates but its not like hes the only one and its not like hes the best conductor out there either

What do you mean "its not like hes the best conductor out there either"? Who is better?

i meant league wide. on our team hes the clear best initiator. I was speaking more like if Middleton was playing with a paul or a curry or even a Rubio type he would look better. our offense is initiated by Bledsoe and Giannis and if those two cant get to the paint we got nothing. since neither can really shoot that creates issues at point of attack. our offense is really really good but its a one trick pony

[TD75]

I would also like to see the following lineup to be honest.

Hill
Brown
GIannis
DJ
Brook

The key concept in this lineup is that everyone (but Giannis??) can shoot from distance and it has high upside on defense (size/length). It has not been used this season. If you want to exchange a bit of long range shooting for defense I would also like to see

Bledsoe
Brown
GIannis
DJ
Brook

Again this lineup has not been used this season.

Can also exchange Brown with DDV in this scenarios.

Not enough man movement off the ball or ball skills to attack closeouts when we go big. It's fine when things are going well but nothing seems to free the team up against the stop Giannis at all costs defenses other than having quick quys who can dribble and shoot.

Yeah, I am certainly not saying there are no drawbacks in those lineups. However, Giannis and the Bucks seemed to do well with Large lineups (last year in Utah comes to mind; no stats here) and they seem to thrive when they steal the ball.

It appears the Bucks employ mostly drive and kick sets, hence ball handling will not be a problem with Hill/Bledsoe and Giannis. The Bucks don't have dribble and shot guys (beyond Middleton who is not fast though) who are fast either way.

Anyway, as I said, I would simply like to see those lineups

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Brandon Knight was held back by Giannis too.

fairly lame post directed at me. i think the debate was more to do with knights effect than the other way around. so my bad for not saying Giannis is the best ever orchestrating an offense and delievering the ball exactly where his teamtes would want to receive it. if you've got 2 bowling balls as your initiators(Giannis and Bledsoe)…. then who needs chris paul or steph if your a shooter right?

Who are these dynamic passing point guards you speak of ? Chris Paul is cooked so think of someone else

league elite guys or even just guys that defenses have to defend at the point of attack. with our guys good defensive teams can just squat back at the basket and if were not getting to the paint our offense starts to look pathetic. think of it... khris can shoot but cant take anybody of the dribble and Bledsoe and Giannis can take guys off the dribble but cant shoot.

my theory is that any traditional pg that can shoot and penetrate would make khris a little better in his wing game. hes kind of dependent on two guys that if they aren't getting into the paint hes just not going to be open very much

all that said if Bledsoe and Giannis get to the paint then our offense is stupid good almost whether were hitting jumpers or not. I understand why anybody would say not to mess with it that much but also I really do think its also why we lost to Toronto. if you can take that away from us then we really don't have plan b and all the guys start having to shoot quicker tougher shots out of their normal rhythm and a hand in their face when they do catch.